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Link to Mark Twain's War Prayer
by laurelcg＠aol.com 29 Sep '17

29 Sep '17

This was written by Mark Twain at the time of the war for the Philippines. Watching the Vietnam war images last night, I was struck by how pitiful the North Vietnamese looked. They were probably not eating much better than their prisoners of war. http://www.progressivewritersbloc.com/DC/WarPrayer.htm

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Re: [Oe List ...] Have you been watching the Vietnam series on PBS?
by laurelcg＠aol.com 29 Sep '17

29 Sep '17

Here is a song by Betsy Rose written for the Vietnamese Boat People. Listen and weep. Let us give thanks for the gift the ones who made it to our shores have been. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0ythaGbGZo And let us pray for today's refugees and the alleviation of terrible suffering today in Libya, south Sudan, Nigeria, the Congo, Somalia, Yemen, Syria, Palestine, Myanmar, Venezuela, Mexico. Love and blessings, Jann -----Original Message----- From: Herman Greene via OE <oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Herman Greene <hfgreenenc(a)gmail.com> Sent: Fri, Sep 29, 2017 8:00 am Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Have you been watching the Vietnam series on PBS? Thanks so much David. My wife, Sandi, and I just sat silently for a long time after the end of the series. Herman On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 12:12 AM, David Dunn via OE <oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Colleagues. Burna and I have been glued to "The Vietnam War” for all ten episodes. Tonight, for lots of reasons, the last hour of the last episode of the documentary broke my heart wide open. I cried a lot. David Footnotes. 1. Apropos "the upheaval of all that has been"—The Introduction to a little book of poems, Poema dla Russki Druzye (Poems for Russian Friends), 19 August 1992 A two-week visit in Moscow at the time of the abortive coup of August 19, 1991 and the reflection that followed during the next few months, is the occasion for an observation. A force is at work in the world with which historians, politicians, and sociologists have not yet reckoned—the powerful attraction between people once separated by ideology and ignorance. Even ten years ago, who could have imagined that on such a global scale the familiar, the prudent, the expected would all be set aside by life demanding to be reunited with life. Tourists, citizen diplomats, and entrepreneurs alike will be captured, broken open, and transformed by a passion for connection that arises in spite of all attempts to hold i back These poems are a way of saying thank you to may people who have become new friends on this journey of transformation. I know that the upheaval of all that has been is first and last an assault on the heart. I hope that you find courage to build what must be built. 2. Apropos the Viet Nam War veterans from both countries who were drawn together in Viet Nam to meet, remember, forgive, and serve: a poem from Poems for Russian Friends. Electric Arms You and I have been imprisoned by years of lies, held hostage by terrorists of heart and mind, afraid of letting either of us know the other. We strain at the bars keeping us apart with desperate longing to find the truth and courage to embrace it. Charged souls so long apart must feel somewhere deep within, so great a need to be united, they will do foolish things to find each other’s electric arms. 3. Apropos expanding one’s context through long term international, cross-cultural friendship—Burna’s and my friends, Alexey and Liuba Kuzmin in Moscow Alexey and I met in August 1991 at a Russian-American Family Camp (Virginia Satir model) in Moscow. Our families have spent time together in both Moscow and the US. Alexey and I check in with each other more or less weekly over Skype. He’s teaching about Program Evaluation in Turin, Italy this week. 4. Apropos the image of Russia and America as two exhausted prize fighters locked in a sweaty clinch—another poem from Poems for Russian Friends Mirrors We live in a world of mirrors, each nation reflected in another. Only other eyes see what we avoid; only other hearts forgive what we reject. On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:24 PM, Herman Greene wrote: On the one hand we fought to defeat Communism and keep our promises to our allies, on the other we fought for a mistake. The lives of the people involved in the war on all sides, perpetrators and victims, were forgotten. — David Dunn 740 S Alton Way 9B Denver, CO 80247 720-314-5991 dmdunn1(a)gmail.com _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net -- __________________________________________________ Herman F. Greene 2516 Winningham Road Chapel Hill, NC 27516 919-942-4358 (ph & fax) hfgreenenc(a)gmail.com _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net

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The Times They Are A'Changin'
by Dawn Collins via OE 28 Sep '17

28 Sep '17

Remember back when we shared light, fluffy things and occasional times of distress; primarily on Face Book I think. Well, deep thoughts and insights are being shared there of late and these reflections were deemed a bit too lengthy for that venue. Now is the time to Wake Up! It's a new day and much is yet to be done. Meditate, contemplate and pray and do what's required to stake your claim to a future that will flow out of the hearts and minds of the courageous and caring ones who love the Earth and labor on behalf of increasing her bounty. So are those who love the people however they show up. Yes, we have still the blind, the mute, the lame, the frigid in spirit who are in need of a word in the midst of the hullabaloo of our present times. And these so called "lost sheep" are seeking ways to "seal the deal" and show they matter even at the expense of the "Other". And the "Other" will no longer silently accept the burden of being second best or an afterthought that's shoved to the rear of the collective mind of the dominant culture. WAKE UP! Sleep walkers accepted "Closet Christians" are opening new doors and preparing themselves for a world they can begin to share with many alternative tribal ways of appropriating Life May we have some assurance of knowing in the deeps that Life is about loving our Creator, Source, Power behind all powers which oversees the threatened breaths of the marginalized and also those who would seek to grasp the power to claim their neighbors next inhalation. Download this into your Interior Story: God is Love and the Godman/Godwoman is alive and Spirit is ready to show us the way to unending joy in rediscovering Life's meaning and the role we devote our collective will to the role this beloved community plays in giving our bodies to affirming and acting upon our reading of the times we live in. Grace & Peace, Dawn Collins We love the Source because the Source loved us first.-1 John 4:19

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conversation on white trash racism
by W. J. via OE 28 Sep '17

28 Sep '17

Last night I was stunned to overhear my next-door neighbors sitting on their front porch and loudly spewing forth their toxic honky racist shit.This was in the wake of Trump's Alabama comments that stirred up a lot of racist indignation that denied there was anything 'racial' involved in protesting against racism. It was not just the nasty content, but more the tone of their comments and their South Carolina accents that were just so offensive to have to overhear. I closed my window, but that didn't stop their conversation from seeping into my living room like sewage in a Texas flood.Among their themes:1. They're still fighting their version of the Civil War, which was not about slavery, since "poor white folks had to pick cotton too".2. They still hate Martin Luther King, Jr. and resent the fact that everywhere they go, there has to be a 'Martin Luther King, Jr. Boulevard' in town.3. Their sense of white entitlement allows them to consider themselves 'better than' black people or more 'civilized'.4. Their cultural values--including their racism--are considered normative. Thus their racist biases are invisible to them.5. Other racial groups are considered intruders (unless they are 'silent' and subservient and don't 'rock the boat' of white superiority).6. Genocide is implicitly OK--especially if it can be justified under 'war' conditions. There was a story about Marines wiping out one quarter million Muslims on an island. That was a good way to 'fix that problem'. Other racial/ethnic/religious groups are considered subhuman and can be treated accordingly.I could go on, but my point is that I just don't like these neighbors. Fortunately, they're not around that often. And since they're old, they will soon die off, taking their racist prejudices with them. They are shrinking minority desperately holding out against cultural change.But they--and millions like them--elected Donald Trump. So we have to deal with a white racist cultural backlash with global implications.So here I am, surrounded by Trump voters like Davey Crockett at the Alamo (yes, I'm aware of the racist imagery here). And even if these folks never say another word, they still think like racist 'poor white trash' who had to compete with other economically disadvantaged groups.I realize that I benefit enormously from 'white male privilege'--including the advantages of a perspective informed by global experience, advanced education, a multicultural context, and a determination to examine and confront my own implicit/unconscious assumptions of white racist privileging. I'd like to begin a conversation that will explore how to survive and thrive and even support cultural change/transformation in this context--without getting pot shots aimed at my living room.Marshall Jones

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Re: [Oe List ...] I have been getting an error message when I email this list
by Del Morrill 28 Sep '17

28 Sep '17

Received. Thanks. Del Morrill From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Herman Greene via OE Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 7:29 PM To: OE Listserv <oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: [Oe List ...] I have been getting an error message when I email this list Please let me know if you receive this email on the OE Listserv. Herman -- __________________________________________________ Herman F. Greene 2516 Winningham Road Chapel Hill, NC 27516 919-942-4358 (ph & fax) hfgreenenc(a)gmail.com <mailto:hfgreenenc@gmail.com>

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Re: [Oe List ...] Have you been watching the Vietnam series on PBS?
by Del Morrill 28 Sep '17

28 Sep '17

Taped the series so only now seeing the series – profound, filled with the truth about what was really going on; difficult to see and hear at times, and memories, memories, memories. Always with best wishes, Del It takes only a few seconds to wound the ones we love, And years for them to be healed of those wounds. From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Herman Greene via OE Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 9:04 AM To: OE Listserv <oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: [Oe List ...] Have you been watching the Vietnam series on PBS? (Thanks to all who let me know my email showed upon the listserve. I haven't received any responses to this message I sent, however, so I am resending.) On Sunday night the Ken Burns series dealt with the issues of the first half of 1968, including the Tet offensive, MLK's death and the urban riots, and Bobby Kennedy's death. It brought back so many gripping memories for me. I remember the riots in Chicago and how it affected us. I remember the Collegium we held with Joe after Bobby Kennedy was killed. He asked us if we were willing to die for the mission. I eagerly held up my hand and said yes as some others did. Tonight there were pictures of the 1968 Democratic convention. I went with Al Lingo to the Blackstone Hotel and we watched the demonstrators and police clash. I remember the national guard being in 5th city and helicopters and surveillance planes flying overhead. We think our country is more divided now than ever. I am remembering how divided we were then. This doesn't mean the divisions we have now are less serious. I think they are more serious. In the 60s there was trust in the "American creed" but with different interpretations of it. Today someting darker and more fundamentally divisive is going on in my humble opinion. Herman -- __________________________________________________ Herman F. Greene 2516 Winningham Road Chapel Hill, NC 27516 919-942-4358 <tel:(919)%20942-4358> (ph & fax) hfgreenenc(a)gmail.com <mailto:hfgreenenc@gmail.com> -- __________________________________________________ Herman F. Greene 2516 Winningham Road Chapel Hill, NC 27516 919-942-4358 (ph & fax) hfgreenenc(a)gmail.com <mailto:hfgreenenc@gmail.com>

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9/28/17, Spong/Plumer:Have Our Mainline Churches Failed Us?; Spong revisited
by Ellie Stock 28 Sep '17

28 Sep '17

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} .aolReplacedBody #aolmail_templateContainer,.aolReplacedBody .aolmail_bodyContent{ background-color:#ffffff; } .aolReplacedBody .aolmail_bodyContent div a:link,.aolReplacedBody .aolmail_bodyContent div a:visited{ color:#4487cf; }</style><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: none;margin: 0;padding: 0;background-color: #ffffff;width: 100% !important;" class="aolReplacedBody"> <center> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" height="100%" width="100%" id="aolmail_backgroundTable" style="margin: 0;padding: 0;background-color: #ffffff;height: 100% !important;width: 100% !important;"> <tbody><tr> <td align="center" valign="top"> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="600" id="aolmail_templatePreheader" style="background-color: #ffffff;"> <tbody><tr> <td valign="top" class="aolmail_preheaderContent"> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td valign="top"><div style="color: #505050;font-family: Arial;font-size: 10px;line-height: 100%;text-align: left;"> </div></td> <td valign="top" width="190"> <div style="color: #505050;font-family: Arial;font-size: 10px;line-height: 100%;text-align: left;"><a target="_blank" style="color: #4487cf;font-weight: normal;text-decoration: none;" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="http://johnshelbyspong.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=b51b9cf441b059bb23…"><img style="border: none;font-size: 14px;font-weight: bold;height: auto;line-height: 100%;outline: none;text-decoration: none;text-transform: capitalize;" src="http://gallery.mailchimp.com/b51b9cf441b059bb232418480/images/print.png"></a></div> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="600" id="aolmail_templateContainer" style="border: 1px solid #4487cf;background-color: #ffffff;"> <tbody><tr> <td align="center" valign="top"> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="600" id="aolmail_templateHeader" style="background-color: #D8E2EA;border-bottom: 0;"> <tbody><tr> <td class="aolmail_headerContent" style="color: #202020;font-family: Arial;font-size: 34px;font-weight: bold;line-height: 100%;padding: 0;text-align: center;vertical-align: middle;"> <img alt="" border="0" style="margin: 0;padding: 0;max-width: 600px;border: none;font-size: 14px;font-weight: bold;height: auto;line-height: 100%;outline: none;text-decoration: none;text-transform: capitalize;" src="http://gallery.mailchimp.com/b51b9cf441b059bb232418480/images/newsletter_he…"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top" class="aolmail_headerNavigation"> <h5 style="color: #202020;display: block;font-family: Arial;font-size: 12px;font-weight: bold;line-height: 100%;margin-top: 15px;margin-right: 0;margin-bottom: 10px;margin-left: 0;text-align: left;text-transform: uppercase;"> <a style="color: #4487cf;text-decoration: none;" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="http://johnshelbyspong.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=b51b9cf441b059bb23…">Homepage</a> <a style="color: #4487cf;text-decoration: none;" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="http://johnshelbyspong.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=b51b9cf441b059bb23…">My Profile</a> <a style="color: #4487cf;text-decoration: none;" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="http://johnshelbyspong.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=b51b9cf441b059bb2…">Essay Archive</a> <a style="color: #4487cf;text-decoration: none;" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="http://johnshelbyspong.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=b51b9cf441b059bb2…">Message Boards</a> <a style="color: #4487cf;text-decoration: none;" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="http://johnshelbyspong.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=b51b9cf441b059bb23…">Calendar</a></h5></td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" valign="top"> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="600" id="aolmail_templateBody"> <tbody><tr> <td valign="top" class="aolmail_bodyContent" style="background-color: #ffffff;"> <table border="0" cellpadding="20" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td valign="top"> <div style="color: #000000;font-family: Georgia;font-size: 16px;line-height: 150%;text-align: left;"><h1 style="color: #003d4a;display: block;font-family: Georgia;font-size: 34px;font-weight: normal;line-height: 100%;margin-top: 0;margin-right: 0;margin-bottom: 10px;margin-left: 0;text-align: left;">Have Our Mainline Churches Failed Us?</h1> <h3 class="aolmail_null" style="color: #4487cf;display: block;font-family: Georgia;font-size: 26px;font-weight: normal;line-height: 100%;margin-top: 0;margin-right: 0;margin-bottom: 10px;margin-left: 0;text-align: left;">By Fred C. Plumer</h3> <p><a style="color: #4487cf;font-weight: normal;text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="http://johnshelbyspong.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=b51b9cf441b059bb2…"><img align="left" class="aolmail_alignleft aolmail_size-medium aolmail_wp-image-49823" height="124" style="border: 0px;width: 125px;height: 124px;margin: 0px 10px 0px 0px;font-size: 14px;font-weight: bold;line-height: 100%;outline: none;text-decoration: none;text-transform: capitalize;display: inline;" width="125" src="https://johnshelbyspong.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Fred-Plumer-300x298.…"></a>I have been wondering lately, if we are really missing the conscience of our mainline churches in our country. Most of us are aware of the political, social and personal conflicts that are going on in our country right now. And most of us are aware of the sad numbers of our dying churches. I have been wondering if there is a connection.</p> <p>With some rare exceptions, churches all over the country are in serious decline or are actually closing. Many churches have merged with other churches and those combined churches are still in decline. Although there is some debate about the actual numbers, we know that on any given Sunday less the 22% of people in the country attend church. This is a national average taking into consideration the much higher reported attendance in the Southern states. Most of us are aware that in west coast and east coast cities, these statistics are much lower, probably closer to 10% of the population attending church on any Sunday.</p> <p>Denominations are also in serious decline, including our beloved mainline denominations. Although there are many false rumors, evangelical and conservative and even mega-churches are slowly declining as well. And according to at least three researchers and authors who have done extensive studies on the millennial generation-who could now be in their late thirties-the number could fall to less than 7% as the older generation dies.(1) By and large, millennials have rejected going to church when they are free of parental control.</p> <p>The reign of clergy, just for being clergy, is over. A few years ago I came upon a survey that was done by a magazine in 1962. In this article the authors explained they were reporting the outcome from the month before. They had asked the readers to rank the most trusted people in jobs in the US. They explained that this would include not only trust, but esteem. Clergy were ranked number 3, with an 84% approval rating after doctors and military. A recent Pew Research poll (2014) found that the favorable view of clergy had declined to 37 percent of those surveyed and had dropped to 6th position beating out artists and lawyers.</p> <p>Aside from these facts, almost anyone who attends church today can see that it is an ageing population. And yet many of our mainline denominations are still fighting over things that the country as a whole favors. I am referring here, in part, to gay and lesbian marriage, gay and lesbian pastors and other LGBTQ issues. We have just recently read about the negative fall-out from a UCC minister talking positively about Black Lives Matter and wondering out loud with his congregation about “white privilege.” This young man resigned as pastor because of the reaction from his congregation. If not in a church community, where are these subjects supposed to be discussed? It makes me want to shout, “It is over folks.”</p> <p>The net result of this change in our society is a little scary for me. Where are the voices of reason? Where are the clergy who have enough influence in our society to be invited to the White House to offer advice or input? Where is the public conscience of people like a Gandhi or Reverend Martin Luther King Jr.? I am not referring here to the Evangelical ministers who were recently invited to the White House to praise and pray for President Trump. Nor am I thinking about the prosperity preachers, like Joel Osteen, who reluctantly opened the doors of his church in Houston after a firestorm of criticism for keeping them locked during the first few days of the floods. I am talking here about the hard working, sincerely loving, real ministers who work in the trenches. The ones who talk, preach and act from the position of: “Do on to others as you would like them to do to you;” clergy who believe in equitable treatment for all people, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, or income. Clergy who truly care about our environment, our animals, and our water supply, for example.</p> <p>I believe it was 1992 when I heard the founder and former president of the Alban Institute, Loren B. Mead, speak to a large group of clergy from Southern California. We were meeting in the Southern California Conference office of the UCC denomination in Pasadena. We had all gathered to hear about the future of the church based on his research for his recently released book, <em>The Once and Future Church</em> (Alban Institute, 1991). He was an engaging speaker, but most of us there were looking for answers, or at least ideas, about ways to grow our struggling churches. Rev. Mead was clear that the public had changed and old ways of doing church or attracting people to church no longer worked. Certainly it would not work for the next generation. He spoke at some length about clergy no longer being held in high esteem unless they had done something worthy on their own. As an example, he talked about the fact that clergy were seldom called to the White House to give advice to the President or Cabinet members.</p> <p>Well, it was just about that time that three uniformed officers came into the church hall. We were all startled and most of us thought the building was on fire, or there was a crazy person with a gun on the loose somewhere in the large building. Then one of the three officers came up to the podium and told us in no uncertain terms we had 15 minutes to move our cars if we were parked in a particular city parking lot. Most of us had parked in this lot since we had been informed by people sponsoring the conference that it was set aside for us. As it turns out, it was a city parking lot that the church had been given permission to use on Sundays, but not, as it turned out, during the week. Since this was the middle of the week, we did not have permission to park there. So off we trudged, in hopes we could find a place to park our vehicles in the busy city.</p> <p>After we had gathered back together again, Rev. Mead looked out at the group, most of us hot and sweaty, and said, “This was a perfect example of what I have been talking about. This would not have happened 30 years ago.” Remember this was over twenty five years ago.</p> <p>I do not mean to suggest that our churches are failing simply because clergy are no longer held in as high esteem as they were fifty years ago. It could simply be the fact that fewer and fewer people have decided to attend church. Our mainline churches have been losing members at an average rate of 1% a year since the 1960’s. Do the math.</p> <p>Nor am I certain the reasons our clergy are no longer held in high esteem is our country’s focus on making money. It is a rare clergy person today who makes a lot of money. Many clergy I know are either part time, are traveling clergy with two and even three churches, or are dependent on their spouse to financially survive.</p> <p>No, I am afraid the main reason our churches are declining and closing is because we are usually telling the same story about Jesus that we have been telling for sixteen hundred years. And while we are doing that, the world has changed around us. We change a little here and little there but basically we are preaching the same platitudes, the same lessons and treating Jesus as if he was indeed God. We are reading the Bible as if it held holy secrets, ignoring the parts that are clearly obscene.</p> <p>And all the while, scholars are telling us a whole, different story. They are telling us that Jesus was a peaceful, radical, and a revolutionary peasant. His birth signaled a new way of relating to others, through agape, that is, through radical love and forgiveness.</p> <p>Interestingly, our colleges and universities no longer teach religion and western civ classes the same way they used to, at least in our public colleges. Any college student who has had a “western civ” class or a class on religion in America, in the last four or five decades, has probably heard a challenge to the old way of interpreting the Jesus story. For these students, listening to a preacher talk about Jesus as if he was a god who performed miracles, was killed on a cross, was buried in a tomb, and three days later arose to meet his disciples again, will just not work.</p> <p>If a college professor has done his homework, he can come up with over a dozen gods/saviors over the past four thousand years or so, who have much in common with what has become “our Christian story,” some more than others. Here are a few examples:</p> <p>Thulis, or Zulis, of Egypt, 1700 BCE, who died a violent death, was buried, then arose, ascended to heaven to judge the dead and souls of the future. He then was resurrected to help the underprivileged.</p> <p>Next is Tammuz of Mesopotamia. He was popular in Assyria, Samaria, and Babylonia, around 1200 BCE he was killed but offered atonement out of his loins as he arose from his grave.</p> <p>Another one of interest is Indra of Tibet. He was nailed to a cross, with four wounds on his hands and feet, and was pierced in his side. His mother was a virgin. He had a life of celibacy, could walk on water and on air and was a god who would exist through all eternity.</p> <p>And finally, my last example is Mithras of Persia, popular sometime around 600BCE. Mithras was crucified on a tree to atone for the sins of all “mankind” and to take away the sins of the world. He, along with half a dozen other examples, was born on December 25. These stories, and eight or ten more are all available in books and yes, online. Feel free to look them up.</p> <p>Now can you imagine trying to convince a young, college educated couple that Jesus died for our sins, was resurrected and if we believe this, not only will we be saved from hell, but Jesus will return…someday? What about their friends, their relatives? People are getting smarter about how to approach the Jesus of a new age.</p> <p>Can clergy change the story in an existing church? It is hard work, full of pitfalls, but it can be done, especially if the clergy person is respected as a teacher, among other things. What if the community agreed that the Jesus story was full of myth and they began together, as a team, to figure out what those myths were trying to tell us? What if the pastor held classes every week and the community worked together to sort out what they felt was good for the community and what was not? What if in another class the pastor allowed us to decide what parts of the Bible the class felt were important and which parts they could let go.</p> <p>But it does not end there. Between the Jesus Seminar and other modern scholars today, there is a plethora of books that challenge the old Jesus story. There is a very real possibility that if enough people do the work and come up with some new ideas about how to approach Christianity, we can discover new and lasting ethical and moral guidelines based on the teachings of Jesus, that make sense in 2017. It is possible that working that way, a church community could come up with new standards of behavior that we could all live with. And maybe we could have a combined voice that would have some impact in our relationships, our communities and our government.</p> <p>Then I would not have to ask the question that I started with. Have our mainline churches failed us? Right now I would have to answer “yes.”</p> <p>~ Fred C. Plumer, President ProgressiveChristianity.org</p> <p>Footnote: (1) <em>Millennials Rising</em>, Neil Howe, William Strauss, Vintage Books, New York, N.Y, 2000, <em>Millennial Momentum</em>, Morley Winograd, Michael D. House, Rutgers University Press, 2011 <em>The Millennials</em>, Tomas S. Rainer, Jess W. Rainer, B&H Publishing, 2011</p> <p>Read the essay online <a target="_blank" style="color: #4487cf;font-weight: normal;text-decoration: underline;" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="http://johnshelbyspong.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=b51b9cf441b059bb2…">here</a>.</p> </div> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="20" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td valign="top"> <div style="color: #000000;font-family: Georgia;font-size: 16px;line-height: 150%;text-align: left;"><hr> <h2 style="color: #4487cf;display: block;font-family: Georgia;font-size: 30px;font-weight: normal;line-height: 100%;margin-top: 0;margin-right: 0;margin-bottom: 10px;margin-left: 0;text-align: left;">Question & Answer</h2> <p><span style="font-size:18px">Annie from Rhode Island, writes:</span></p> <h4 style="color: #4487cf;display: block;font-family: Georgia;font-size: 22px;font-weight: normal;line-height: 100%;margin-top: 0;margin-right: 0;margin-bottom: 10px;margin-left: 0;text-align: left;"> Question:</h4> <p>With the #TakeAKnee movement growing, what do you think the Church's role in racism in the US is?</p> <p> </p> <h4 style="color: #4487cf;display: block;font-family: Georgia;font-size: 22px;font-weight: normal;line-height: 100%;margin-top: 0;margin-right: 0;margin-bottom: 10px;margin-left: 0;text-align: left;">Answer: By Rev. Mark Sanlin</h4> <p><a style="color: #4487cf;font-weight: normal;text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="http://johnshelbyspong.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=b51b9cf441b059bb23…"><img align="left" class="aolmail_alignleft aolmail_size-full aolmail_wp-image-49705" height="125" style="border: 0px;width: 125px;height: 125px;margin: 0px 10px 0px 0px;font-size: 14px;font-weight: bold;line-height: 100%;outline: none;text-decoration: none;text-transform: capitalize;display: inline;" width="125" src="https://johnshelbyspong.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Mark-Sandlin.jpg"></a>Dear Annie,</p> <p>What it is and what it should be, unfortunately, aren't always one in the same.</p> <p> </p> <p>A recent analysis led by Wendy Wood, Provost Professor of Psychology and Business at USC College and the USC Marshall School of Business, found a positive correlation between religiosity and racial bias.</p> <p>The analysis looked at data from 55 different studies on religion and racism in America dating back to the Civil Rights Act. Combined, the studies include more than 22,000 participants, mostly white and Protestant. (And that's important: Protestant. Much of the current support for our racially biased government comes from the more conservative Evangelical Christian movement, not the Protestant).</p> <p>As the study reports: "A meta-analytic review of past research evaluated the link between religiosity and racism in the United States since the Civil Rights Act. Religious racism partly reflects intergroup dynamics. That is, a strong religious in-group identity was associated with derogation of racial out-groups. Other races might be treated as out-groups because religion is practiced largely within race, because training in a religious in-group identity promotes general ethnocentrism, and because different others appear to be in competition for resources. In addition, religious racism is tied to basic life values of social conformity and respect for tradition.”</p> <p>Recognize here that the study did not find that religion causes racism. It's findings say that religion is fertile soil for those who have tendencies toward racism. Progressive, Christian, author Anne Lamott puts it this way, “You can safely say that you've created God in your own image when it turns out God hates all the same people you do.”</p> <p>Or as I've said, "If your religion doesn’t challenge you to care for people you might otherwise be dismissive of and, instead, reinforces your negative feeling about them, you don’t have a religion – you have a formalized structure for institutionalizing your biases."</p> <p>Basically, when it isn't practiced with intelligence and compassion, religion can easily be used as an authoritative confirmation of our biases – without the humanist perspectives of critical thinking and the innate value of individuals, perverting religious outlooks to suit personal prejudices is far too easy. Add to it the dogmatic environment of most churches and it can be the perfect petri dish for growing cultures of racism.</p> <p>Putting racism into the hands of God also makes life easier when you are confronted with social injustices. If you can blame a group's oppression on the retribution of an angry god or some inherent deficiency, then you really not only have no responsibility in it but you'd be foolish to go against God. Not only that, you don't have to feel bad about the privileges that are given to you when you choose not to extend those same privileges to people who've already been judged by God.</p> <p>The harsh reality of race and religion in America is that religion has become a cover for racism.</p> <p>The reality is that racial discrimination is now being touted as "religious freedom."</p> <p>You can wrap the law around it any way you want. You can call it religious freedom, freedom of speech... whatever you want. No matter what you call it, it remains morally repugnant and devoid of any god that I ever care to worship. There is no space in a healthy spiritual community for racism, or for that matter anything that pits one group of people over another.</p> <p>That kind of thinking, that kind of acting, stands over and against everything that can grow a person or a community spiritually. That kind of thinking plays to the lowest forms of human pettiness and uses religion as a weapon rather than as a balm. It is a bastardization of spirituality and must be actively resisted at every turn and cast out like the demon that it is.</p> <p>It does not mean that we stop seeking to care for those who practice it. That would put us in a similar place of denying people for being different than us, but it does mean not sitting silently by as it is being practiced. It does mean actively resisting it in our churches and communities.</p> <p>~ Rev. Mark Sandlin Read and share online <a target="_blank" style="color: #4487cf;font-weight: normal;text-decoration: underline;" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="http://johnshelbyspong.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=b51b9cf441b059bb23…">here</a> </p> <p><strong>About the Author</strong></p> <p>Mark Sandlin is an ordained minister in the Presbyterian Church (USA) from the South. He currently serves at Presbyterian Church of the Covenant. He is a co-founder of <a style="color: #4487cf;font-weight: normal;text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="http://johnshelbyspong.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=b51b9cf441b059bb2…">The Christian Left</a>. His blog, <a style="color: #4487cf;font-weight: normal;text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="about:blank">RevMarkSandlin, has been named as one of the “Top Ten Christian Blogs.” Mark received The Associated Church Press' Award of Excellence in 2012. His work has been published on "The Huffington Post," "Sojourners," "Time," "Church World Services," and even the "Richard Dawkins Foundation." He's been featured on PBS's "Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly" and NPR's "The Story with Dick Gordon.” Follow Mark on </a><a style="color: #4487cf;font-weight: normal;text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="http://johnshelbyspong.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=b51b9cf441b059bb23…">Facebook</a> and Twitter @marksandlin</p> <p style="text-align: center;">__________________________________________________</p> <h3 style="text-align: center;color: #4487cf;display: block;font-family: Georgia;font-size: 26px;font-weight: normal;line-height: 100%;margin-top: 0;margin-right: 0;margin-bottom: 10px;margin-left: 0;"><strong>Bishop John Shelby Spong Revisited</strong></h3> <p style="text-align: center;"><strong>The Ultimate Source of Anti-Semitism - The Circumstances That Brought Judas Into the Jesus Story</strong></p> <p><img alt="Spong" class="aolmail_wp-image-49832 aolmail_alignleft" height="128" style="border: 0px;width: 121px;height: 128px;margin: 0px 10px 0px 0px;float: left;font-size: 14px;font-weight: bold;line-height: 100%;outline: none;text-decoration: none;text-transform: capitalize;display: inline;" width="121" src="https://johnshelbyspong.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Spong-283x300.jpg"></p> <p>I return today to a subject that I have covered before. It is essential however, to this series on the sources of anti-Semitism, so I ask my reader's indulgence while I once again bring Judas into focus. My request to you is a simple one. Suspend for a moment your critical faculties, as well as your traditional presuppositions, and assume with me that the story of Judas Iscariot was a late-developing, contrived story and not a remembered bit of objective history. If this speculation is correct, as I think it is, then I must deal with two additional questions. The first one is: where did the gospel writers get the content that they wove into the Judas story? If it has all been borrowed, as I think I can demonstrate, then is any part of that story history?</p> <p>I find it fascinating that every detail that has been written into the story of Judas has been lifted almost directly out of other betrayal stories in the Hebrew Scriptures. The very words "handed over," which we somewhat loosely translated "betrayed" when Paul first used it (I Cor. 11), was lifted out of the story of Joseph and his brothers (Gen. 37). Rather than kill Joseph, the brothers agreed to hand him over for money. Of particular note is the fact that the brother who proposed that they secure this payment for their act of treachery was Judah. If written in Greek, it would be Judas!</p> <p>Second, a story in the book of Zechariah has the shepherd King of Israel being betrayed for thirty pieces of silver. This money says Zechariah was thrown back into the Temple treasury, which is exactly what Matthew, who is the only gospel writer to mention 'thirty pieces of silver,' says Judas did with his money when he repented (compare Zech. 11:12-13 with Mt. 27:5). This shepherd King in the book of Zechariah was betrayed, interestingly enough, to those who bought and sold animals in the Temple (11:15)!</p> <p>Third, there is a narrative in the David saga of stories in which a royal advisor named Ahithophel, who even though he ate at the table of the King, nonetheless raised his hand in betrayal against "the Lord's anointed," as King David was called. When this treachery backfired, he went out and hanged himself. It is this episode, cited by the book of Psalms (41.9), that John quotes to demonstrate that when Jesus identified Judas at the Last Supper as the traitor, the expectations of the prophets were being fulfilled.</p> <p>Next we are told that Judas betrayed Jesus with a kiss. A similar act is also found once again in the David cycle of stories. David, after putting down a rebellion led by his son Absalom, felt he could no longer trust his former military chief Joab, so he replaced him with a man named Amasa. Joab, under the guise of wanting to congratulate his successor, sought out and found Amasa. Drawing Amasa's face by the beard to his own, in order to extend to Amasa the kiss of friendship, Joab disemboweled him with a dagger (II Sam. 20:5ff). That was the content of the phrase 'the kiss of the traitor' before the story of Judas entered the tradition. Perhaps this story about Joab and Amasa also colored Luke's account in the book of Acts in which it was suggested that Judas died with all his bowels gushing out (Acts 1: 18).</p> <p>My point in this first exercise is to show that every detail of the Judas story has been lifted directly out of the Hebrew Scriptures, where it was originally part of a narrative about other traitors in Jewish history. This causes me to wonder if any part of the Judas story is history.</p> <p>The second question I wish to raise is: What was going on at that time in history that might have made it convenient or even necessary to create the Judas story? This leads me into an exploration of the world of the Middle East after the year 70 C.E. when the gospels were being written. One of the more obvious themes in the earliest passion narratives is the shifting of the blame for Jesus' death from the Romans to the Jews, for that is what the story of Judas seems to accomplish. Let me set that stage for you.</p> <p>From the time of Jesus on (30 C.E.), Jewish guerilla fighters had roamed the hills of Galilee doing hit and run attacks on the occupying Roman army. To the Jews, these guerillas were heroic freedom fighters. To the Romans, they were terrorists and killers. These guerillas were called Zealots. The fact that one of Jesus' disciples was known as Simon the Zealot (Lk.6: 15), may indicate a closer connection between these guerillas and Jesus than Christians have yet been willing to admit.</p> <p>In the year 66 C.E., this guerilla activity escalated into a full scale Galilean war between the Romans and the Jews that finally ended at Masada in 73 C.E. in total Jewish defeat. The climax of the war, however, occurred when the Romans decided they could not defeat the guerillas unless they destroyed Jerusalem and the Jewish state. Led first by a general named Vespasian, and later by his son Titus, the Romans moved into siege positions around the Holy City and pounded it until Jerusalem fell in 70 C.E. The Romans moved in, smashing its walls, razing its buildings and demolishing the Temple. The Jewish state disappeared from the maps of history, and did not re-appear again until 1948 when the United Nations brought into being the State of Israel under the authority of the Balfour Declaration.</p> <p>In that war against Rome, the Jews lost everything they had: their nation, their holy city, their temple, and their priesthood. Jewish identity thus came to be attached to their sacred scriptures, which was all they had left. They invested these scriptures with both an absolute authority and a literal accuracy. The whole truth is in the Torah, they asserted. Nothing more is essential, or necessary. The Jews thus became increasingly rigid, fundamentalist and doctrinaire about their Bible. That always occurs when survival is at stake.</p> <p>In that same tragedy the followers of Jesus, who were still predominantly Jews, found themselves suffering the fate of all Jews at the hands of their Roman conquerors. Seeking to separate themselves from the Orthodox Party of the Jews, whom they blamed for starting that destructive war, the followers of Jesus sought to make the case that they should not be punished for the foolishness of the Jewish fanatics who constituted the Orthodox Party. It was a difficult case for them to make, however, since Jesus, the one they followed, had also been executed by the Romans.</p> <p>But suppose, they said to the Roman authorities, that the Romans only crucified Jesus at the behest of the Orthodox Party of the Jews, who sought to get rid of his threatening teaching by portraying Jesus as a political revolutionary, who wanted to set up a rival Kingdom. Recall the sign that Pilate ordered to be placed over the cross: 'This is Jesus the King of the Jews.' The Orthodox Party had twisted his message, they contended to the Romans, since the Kingdom of which Jesus spoke was not of this world. The same religious fanatics, they argued, who started the Roman war had earlier been instrumental in the death of our leader. It was a skillful use of that old adage: 'we should be friends since we have a common enemy.' Your wrath, they wanted the authorities representing Rome after that war to know, should not fall indiscriminately on all Jews.</p> <p>How better could they accomplish that purpose than to tell the Christ story with the chief person responsible for the death of Jesus bearing the name of the entire Jewish nation?</p> <p>How better could they seek Roman favor than by whitewashing the Roman Procurator Pontius Pilate, in their narrative of Jesus' final days, exonerating him of any blame in his death?</p> <p>So Pilate, in the developing gospel story, was portrayed as washing his hands, claiming his innocence and referring to Jesus as "this just man in whom I find no fault." The Jewish crowd was portrayed as accepting the blame, by saying: "His blood be upon us and upon our children." The shift in blame was complete. The Jews did it. Judah/Judas did it. They are the enemy. He is the enemy. Pilate and the Romans are our friends.</p> <p>So the deed was done. That is the ultimate seed out of which this Christian prejudice of anti-Semitism has grown. That is the source out of which all the hostility toward the Jews has flowed. That is what allowed Christians to tolerate and even to celebrate a violent, killing anti-Jewish undercurrent that would emerge in chilling horror in the writings of the Church Fathers, in the Crusades, in the Inquisition, in the response to the Bubonic plague, in the writings of reformers like Luther and in the Holocaust. Judas is our clue. Christians took the life of one disciple who bore the name of the entire Jewish nation and made him the anti-Christ, thereby avoiding their own persecution as Jews by the conquering Romans and in that act, anti-Semitism was transformed into a virtue in Christian history.</p> <p>The only purpose in raising the sources of our prejudice into consciousness is to enable us to expel them. The biblical texts that we Christians have used for centuries to justify our hostility toward the Jews need to be banished forever from the sacred writings of the Christian Church. The way to begin I believe is to return to the Christ consciousness that caused the early Christians to assert, as Luke does in the Pentecost story, that to be filled with the Spirit is to transcend all tribal boundaries and to speak the universal language of love (Acts 2). It is to recover the power in Paul's words to the Galatians, that "in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek but a New Creation" (Gal 3:28).</p> <p>To enter that new creation may well be what is required if the human race is to survive.</p> <p>~ John Shelby Spong Originally published June 9, 2004</p> </div> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="20" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td valign="top"> <div style="color: #000000;font-family: Georgia;font-size: 16px;line-height: 150%;text-align: left;"><hr> <h2 style="color: #4487cf;display: block;font-family: Georgia;font-size: 30px;font-weight: normal;line-height: 100%;margin-top: 0;margin-right: 0;margin-bottom: 10px;margin-left: 0;text-align: left;">Announcements</h2> <h2 style="color: #4487cf;display: block;font-family: Georgia;font-size: 30px;font-weight: normal;line-height: 100%;margin-top: 0;margin-right: 0;margin-bottom: 10px;margin-left: 0;text-align: left;"> </h2> <h2 style="text-align: left;color: #4487cf;display: block;font-family: Georgia;font-size: 30px;font-weight: normal;line-height: 100%;margin-top: 0;margin-right: 0;margin-bottom: 10px;margin-left: 0;"><a target="_blank" style="color: #4487cf;font-weight: normal;text-decoration: underline;" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="http://johnshelbyspong.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=b51b9cf441b059bb23…"><img height="267" style="border: 0px;width: 200px;height: 267px;margin: 0px 10px 0px 0px;float: left;font-size: 14px;font-weight: bold;line-height: 100%;outline: none;text-decoration: none;text-transform: capitalize;display: inline;" width="200" src="https://gallery.mailchimp.com/b51b9cf441b059bb232418480/images/1fadbb51-d76…"></a> <span style="font-family:georgia,times,times new roman,serif"><span style="color:#000000"><span style="font-size:16px"><strong>FaithandReason® presents The Challenge of Paul, featuring John Dominic Crossan</strong></span> <span style="font-size:16px">The D. L. Dykes, Jr. Foundation (DLDF), producers of FaithandReason®, will distribute, free of charge, <strong>The Challenge of Paul</strong>, an extraordinary video learning experience with J<strong>ohn Dominic Crossan</strong> (Themes 1 and 2, plus a digital resource guide – a $150 value) to 1,000 or more churches across the country. Congregations or organizations interested in participating in <strong>The Challenge of Paul Gift Program</strong> area asked to email: <a href="mailto:jennifervail@faithandreason.org">jennifervail(a)faithandreason.org</a> and simply state, “Yes. I am interested in participating in The Challenge of Paul Gift Program.” <a target="_blank" style="color: #4487cf;font-weight: normal;text-decoration: underline;" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="http://johnshelbyspong.us2.list-manage2.com/track/click?u=b51b9cf441b059bb2…">Click here</a> for more information</span></span></span></h2> </div> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" valign="top"> <table border="0" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0" width="600" id="aolmail_templateFooter" style="background-color: #FDFDFD;border-top: 0;"> <tbody><tr> <td valign="top" class="aolmail_footerContent"> <table border="0" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td colspan="2" valign="middle" id="aolmail_social" style="background-color: #FAFAFA;border: 0;"> <div style="color: #707070;font-family: Arial;font-size: 12px;line-height: 125%;text-align: center;"></div></td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" valign="middle" id="aolmail_utility" style="background-color: #FDFDFD;border: 1px dashed #d3d3d3;"><div style="color: #707070;font-family: Arial;font-size: 12px;line-height: 125%;text-align: center;"><div class="aolmail_vcard"><div class="aolmail_adr"><div class="aolmail_street-address"></div></div></div></div></td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" valign="middle" id="aolmail_utility"><div style="color: #707070;font-family: Arial;font-size: 12px;line-height: 125%;text-align: left;"></div></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></center><center><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%" id="aolmail_canspamBarWrapper" style="background-color:#FFFFFF; border-top:1px solid #E5E5E5;"><tbody><tr><td align="center" valign="top" style="padding-top:20px; padding-bottom:20px;"> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <style type="text/css">#AOLMsgPart_2_338c839d-c995-4569-8ea9-81a75158de18 td{color: black;} @media only screen and (max-width: 480px){ .aolReplacedBody table#aolmail_canspamBar td{font-size:14px !important;} .aolReplacedBody table#aolmail_canspamBar td a{display:block !important; margin-top:10px !important;} } </style> </center> </div> </div>

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Have you been watching the Vietnam series on PBS?
by Terry Bergdall via OE 27 Sep '17

27 Sep '17

Diann, The series has affected me greatly. It appears that I am a year older than you since I was a senior in high school during the spring of 1968. By that time, I was thick into oppositions activities — such as I could do in a small Oklahoma town. I trace their beginnings back to a trip to the United Nations and Washington DC sponsored the Oklahoma Conference of the Methodist Church in October 1965. We heard one story about fighting "international communism" in DC and one in NYC about the folly and tragedy of being on the wrong side of a misguided effort to fight a colonial war. The latter message was from a Methodist Bishop. That trip began my journey of questioning, and then opposing, the Vietnam War. Throughout 1967, I passed out petitions, “Negotiate Now,” and solicited signatures until the HS Principal forced us to stop on school grounds. Then in mid-January 1968 — 10 days before the Tet Offensive — the confrontation came to a boil when a friend and I wrote a letter to the editor of local newspaper (see attached) which then released all hell in my hometown: neighbors aggressively called our parents and publiclly condemed us “commies." The Vietnam series has forced me to re-examine what I thought an authenitic ethical response was then, how I acted in real time of the sixties, and how my current life reflects a continuity (or not) of that ethical understanding. For those reasons, I consider the Vietnam series to be a VERY powerful experience. The Ecumenical Instite and Order, of course, were ultimately central in my response to the “tumultuous times” that was described in “The Declaration of Spirit Movement.” I was very active in the region with EI affairs in1967 when it first published. BTW, “Stoner” is also one of my favorite novels. So much said about life’s journey in so few pages. Terry B. ++++++++++++++++ On Sep 27, 2017, at 11:21, McCabe, Diann A via OE <oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Terry and I have been watching the series (usually a day or so late) with deep interest. I was a junior in high school in the spring of 1968, exposed only to mainstream headlines and TIME magazine. (I remember reading an article about a Vietnamese farmer who was overjoyed to find, finally, after much bombing, earthworms surviving in his field. I was moved to tears reading this at age 17.) When Terry and I met in the fall of 1969 at college, he organized the moratorium against the war on campus. I began to be exposed to the war below the headlines--but not enough to feel that I understood much, and as J. Wiegel wrote, there was a lot of life going on around us. Taking in this series is in many ways like swallowing difficult large pills--but I find myself so grateful to have these stories to fill in some of the spaces in our national and global story about this war. And about all wars. The other night on one of the episodes a North Vietnamese veteran said, "War awakens a savagery in people." And U.S. veteran, Matt Harrison, said quietly after describing some horror he witnessed, "The veneer of civilization is very thin." And I think of a line from one of my favorite novels, STONER, from a professor commenting on the start of WWI: "A war doesn't merely kill off a few thousand or a few hundred thousand young men. It kills off something in a people that can never be brought back. And if a people goes through enough wars, pretty soon all that's left is the brute, a creature that we--you and I and others like us--have brought up from the slime." Another line from the film struck me came when a North Vietnamese veteran talked about noticing how American soldiers reacted when one of their fellow soldiers was killed. He said something like, "They gathered together around him and comforted each other in respect for the fallen solder. Just as we do. And I realized that we share a common bond with humanity. And that gave me something to think about."

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Re: [Oe List ...] Have you been watching the Vietnam series on PBS?
by James Wiegel via OE 27 Sep '17

27 Sep '17

Aiee, another episode tonight, and more material available on the pbs website. Herman, I recall going down to Lincoln Park one evening and there were a lot of activists there and someone was explaining about "guerrilla theater". With morning collegiums, daily office, scripture news conversations, teaching school, guild and division meetings, summer programs, security, enablement, eg structures, ecclesiola, some social life(Pat and Joe's, etc.) and week II assignments, either I was preoccupied or blocked out a whole lot of the drama of the Vietnam War. Wasn't the moon landing in there someplace as well? What I am marveling at is the way in which our country went in, got sucked in, and kept digging deeper, and of course the killing. Oh, and I got the email where you asked if anyone got the email . . . Plus the replies of all the other people who got that email. In Rob Work's book, A Compassionate Civilization, Peace and Nonviolence is one of his six ingredients, as is Participatory Governance. Good emphases, I would say, though I cant see the technology and structures that would be required to really prevent the sort of thing we got ourselves into back then. Jim Wiegel 401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353 Tel. 011-623-936-8671 or 011-623-363-3277 jfwiegel(a)yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com We are all apprentices in a craft where no one ever becomes a master. Ernest Hemingway > On Sep 26, 2017, at 09:04, Herman Greene via OE <oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: > > --f403043535906470aa055a19d405 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > (Thanks to all who let me know my email showed upon the listserve. I > haven't received any responses to this message I sent, however, so I am > resending.) > > > On Sunday night the Ken Burns series dealt with the issues of the first > half of 1968, including the Tet offensive, MLK's death and the urban riots, > and Bobby Kennedy's death. > > It brought back so many gripping memories for me. I remember the riots in > Chicago and how it affected us. I remember the Collegium we held with Joe > after Bobby Kennedy was killed. He asked us if we wer

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Have you been watching the Vietnam series on PBS?
by Herman Greene via OE 26 Sep '17

26 Sep '17

(Thanks to all who let me know my email showed upon the listserve. I haven't received any responses to this message I sent, however, so I am resending.) On Sunday night the Ken Burns series dealt with the issues of the first half of 1968, including the Tet offensive, MLK's death and the urban riots, and Bobby Kennedy's death. It brought back so many gripping memories for me. I remember the riots in Chicago and how it affected us. I remember the Collegium we held with Joe after Bobby Kennedy was killed. He asked us if we were willing to die for the mission. I eagerly held up my hand and said yes as some others did. Tonight there were pictures of the 1968 Democratic convention. I went with Al Lingo to the Blackstone Hotel and we watched the demonstrators and police clash. I remember the national guard being in 5th city and helicopters and surveillance planes flying overhead. We think our country is more divided now than ever. I am remembering how divided we were then. This doesn't mean the divisions we have now are less serious. I think they are more serious. In the 60s there was trust in the "American creed" but with different interpretations of it. Today someting darker and more fundamentally divisive is going on in my humble opinion. Herman -- __________________________________________________ Herman F. Greene 2516 Winningham Road Chapel Hill, NC 27516 919-942-4358 <(919)%20942-4358> (ph & fax) hfgreenenc(a)gmail.com -- __________________________________________________ Herman F. Greene 2516 Winningham Road Chapel Hill, NC 27516 919-942-4358 (ph & fax) hfgreenenc(a)gmail.com

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