February 2013 - OE - lists.wedgeblade.net

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by Marge Philbrook 29 Apr '13

29 Apr '13

Using this email address which is my own personal address, twice I sent an email to the <dialogue(a)lists.wedgeblade.net>. Once I sent an email to the < oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net>. I thought that I was on both lists to receive email. I did not receive any of these three things I sent. If anyone receives this email please reply to me as you would to anyone else that sends something to the list. Is there anyone who can tell me if everyone else got these messages expect me, or if no one got them. Is there anyone who can tell me how I can get a message to the persons on the list? Marge Philbrook

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2/28/13, Spong: The Pope Resigns: A New Opportunity for the Christian World is Born
by Ellie Stock 28 Feb '13

28 Feb '13

HOMEPAGE MY PROFILE ESSAY ARCHIVE MESSAGE BOARDS CALENDAR The Pope Resigns: A New Opportunity for the Christian World is Born The world in general and members of the Roman Catholic Church in particular were shocked at the recent announcement that Pope Benedict XIV was resigning the papal office at the end of February. A moment of transition for this church has arrived. The stated reason for this unusual resignation was age and infirmity, but as is the case with every public figure, the world began to look for and wonder if the stated reason was actually the real reason. Time, of course, will reveal all things. Those of us who remember the last years of the papacy of John Paul II wonder why age and infirmity has become an issue all of a sudden, since it was obviously not an issue in John Paul II’s final years. The traditional, hierarchical voices of Roman Catholicism grieve for this pope who was their bulwark against the changing forces of the modern world, holding those forces down with great power. This was not, however, the response of those Catholics who saw in the reforms of Vatican II the hope of the future, nor was it the response of the ecumenical world. This was the Pope who visited Africa with its AIDS epidemic, its poverty, its high rate of starvation and infant mortality, its tribal and civil wars and yet the only moral issue he chose to address was the use of condoms specifically, and birth control generally. This was the pope who, serving as the head of the “Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith” or the “Cardinal Inquisitor” under John Paul II, began the systematic suppression of any and all creative thinking. He undercut the work of those young Vatican II theologians who were the stars of that life-giving council, called by the much beloved Angelo Giuseppe Roncalli, when he became Pope John XXIII. Among those who were either removed from their posts as “catholic theologians,” silenced or harassed were such giants of the church as Hans Kung, probably the best known and most widely read Catholic theologian of the 20th century; Edward Schillebeeckx, probably the best known Roman Catholic biblical scholar in the 20th century; Leonardo Boff, the father of the Latin-American version of liberation theology; Charles Curran, probably the best known Catholic ethicist in the 20th century, and Matthew Fox, the popular and much published advocate of what came to be called “Creation Spirituality.” The only progressive Catholics escaping suppression by this pope were Catholic lay women, who were theologians. Theologically trained Catholic women are not subject to vows of obedience to the church’s hierarchy, so they were simply marginalized, indexed or refused both appointments and honors by those institutions under Catholic hierarchical control. I refer to great thinkers like Elizabeth Schussler-Fiorenza, Rosemary Reuther, Margaret Farley, Sister Joan Chittister, Jeannette Rodriguez, Jane Schaberg, Pheme Perkins and countless others. This was also the pope who presided over the tragic violence of child abuse and its subsequent criminal cover up that has engulfed the entire Catholic world. At first, when these cases began to come to light, we were told that this was just the work of a few bad priests. As the crisis grew, however, the priestly abuse of children became evident in Ireland, the Philippines, Australia, Austria, Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Scandinavia, France, Spain, the United States and many more nations. This widespread abuse clearly revealed a pattern pointing to a systemic sickness that infected the entire ecclesiastical structure. This is why the cover up, which today is undoubted, became so necessary. The cover up was a strategy of survival that revealed just how deep the scandal was. In the United States it reached the level of the cardinals. In Massachusetts Cardinal Bernard Law is so obviously guilty of a massive cover up. His hands were not only on the records of priests guilty of massive abuse, but he was also responsible for the choosing of many bishops appointed throughout the United States, who were also subsequently revealed as guilty of both abuse and cover up. Instead of dealing with that issue and letting Cardinal Law face his accusers in court, the Vatican, near the end of the pontificate of John Paul II, moved to extricate Cardinal Law from any criminal investigation and probable imprisonment by “promoting” him to a senior Vatican position where he will remain for the balance of his life, thus removing him from the possibility of ever having to testify under oath or of responding to a subpoena. The “second in command” in the Vatican when this decision was made was Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Benedict XVI. No Vatican action could have announced more publicly that a cover up was the official policy of the Catholic Church than this. Cardinal Law was thus placed into a position of high honor instead of going to jail and he was present to say one of the official masses at the death of John Paul II. He has remained in this senior prestigious position during the entirety of the pontificate of Benedict XVI. So Benedict XVI was touched by and involved in this scandal from the very beginning of his papacy. In the midst of Benedict’s pontificate, stories emerged out of Germany, which revealed that while he was the Archbishop of Munich, he failed to take the necessary steps to address the child abuse scandal and, as the investigation got closer and closer to his office, the hierarchy of that church went into its most protective, defensive posture, seeking to remove him from any responsibility. A closed investigation, however, never does that, so the Munich odor is still abroad, still waiting to be dispelled by truth. The truth will eventually be made clear. Just before the time of the Benedict XVI’s resignation, hundreds of subpoenaed letters and documents revealed beyond the shadow of a doubt that the Cardinal Archbishop of Los Angeles had been literally directing the cover up activities, while all the time publicly proclaiming just how thoroughly he was prosecuting those guilty of molesting children. Since child molestation is a crime, then protecting a person guilty of child molestation is also a crime. Cardinal Roger Mahoney of Los Angeles is thus now charged with criminal behavior and ought to be prosecuted under the law. His successor in office in Los Angeles, Archbishop Jose Gomez, has forbidden him to function publicly. Cardinal Mahoney, in a recent blog to his friends, however, asked for their prayers as he flies to Rome to participate in the papal election. Does not everyone understand why there is public disillusionment both within the Catholic Church and beyond it? This was the Pope who would rather close churches, which has been done by the thousands across the world, than open ordination to allow priests who resigned to get married to function as priests. He would rather have no priests than to break the 12th century celibacy requirement or to allow women to be ordained. This was the Pope who continued to call homosexuals “deviant,” a definition almost universally rejected in the scientific and medical community. This was the Pope who spoke out against any politician who supported same sex marriage and then sat back to watch a majority of Catholics in the United States vote for the election of Barack Obama, who endorsed this position. This was the pope who must have seen our nation marching irrevocably toward a Supreme Court ruling on the constitutionality of gay marriage. Today on that court of nine judges sit six Roman Catholic and three Jewish justices. Few people doubt the ultimate outcome of this debate or the ultimate outcome of the Supreme Court decision. The only question is how long will it take for the prejudice against gay and lesbian people, so deeply supported by institutional Christianity through the centuries, to come to its inevitable death? If not from the Supreme Court as presently constituted, then which Supreme Court in which year will deliver the inevitable coup de grace to our nation’s church supported homophobia? There is always hope in transition. Hope is dampened, however, by the realization that all of the 117 cardinals who will cast their votes for the next pope were appointed by John Paul II or Benedict XVI, and even those appointed by John Paul II were influenced by Cardinal Ratzinger, in the number two position in the Vatican under John Paul II. So there is, people say, little realistic hope for change. That is not a certainty. Many an American president has appointed justices to the Supreme Court whose voting record has been surprisingly different from what the appointing president anticipated. One recalls Dwight Eisenhower’s appointment of Chief Justice Earl Warren, John F. Kennedy’s appointment of Justice Byron (Whizzer) White and George H. W. Bush’s appointment of Justice David H. Souter. No one can finally control the thought processes of another and, as the poet James Russell Lowell once noted, “Time makes ancient good uncouth.” So no one should despair until the choice is made and the white smoke appears. Remember that John XXIII was chosen as a compromise candidate who, because of his advanced age, was thought to merely be a “seat warmer” until a consensus leader emerged. John Paul XXIII proved to be far more than that as he lit the fires for a new reformation, for the modernization of his church, for new ecumenical and interfaith initiatives, and he opened the door to a new spirit. Every pope since, clearly frightened by change, has expended enormous energy in trying to restore Catholicism to its controlling pre-Vatican II lifestyle. Truth, however, cannot finally be suppressed simply because it is ecclesiastically inconvenient. So hope still burns brightly in the hearts and minds of millions of Catholics the world over. That hope just might turn out to be nothing less than a manifestation of the Holy Spirit. Will this Spirit be seen, felt and responded to by the Sacred Concave? Only time will tell. The odds appear to be long, but the future of the Roman Catholic Church and maybe of Christianity itself, may well hang on the choice made by these 117 generally old men. ~John Shelby Spong Read the essay online here. Question & Answer Chase Kruger, from Oklahoma City, writes: Question: I am thankful to say that I watched a speech you made last night and it moved me to the point of tears. I had chills running up and down my spine as I listened to your explanation of the Bible in relation to homosexuality. For years I was filled with self-hatred. As a young adult I have tried t explain the responsibility the church has to the suicide of gay teens and the homophobic nature the church has fueled. My intent has been to show Christians how the church is turning family against family, youth against youth and degrading the self worth of those questioning their sexuality. I personally see the Bible as a living document that Christians will continue to grow and understand as they grow spiritually. I in no way want anyone to change their faith, only the voice and tone in which they express themselves in relation to the discussion of homosexuality. I look forward to finding and reading your publications in the near future. You are a living example of how Christ accepted outcasts and used them to teach the masses. May you forever be blessed and recognized for your contribution to the progressive rights for all humanity. I could never thank you enough for the lives you have saved and hearts to which you have brought much needed love, affection and understanding to. Thank you, thank you, thank you! John 18 - “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.” P.S. If you are ever in the Oklahoma area, I would love to have the opportunity to attend one of your events. May you continue to be blessed with the ability to speak to others and change religious and social views. Answer: Dear Chase: Thank you for your letter. I need to tell you that the gay and lesbian people taught me everything I know about homosexuality and, in the process, forced me to confront my own prejudices I stand deeply in their debt. When I got to the place where I could in honesty stand at their side in the battle against homophobia, I began to experience the incredible hostility that happens to gay and lesbian people from inside religion in general and from some forms of Christianity in particular. Most of the death threats I have received came from “Bible-quoting true believers” and they came as a direct result of my witness on behalf of gay and lesbian Christians. I have been to Oklahoma on several occasions so that I know there are Christian churches in that state that stand up against all diminishing human prejudices. One of those churches, the Mayflower Church, is in Oklahoma City and its pastor, Robin Meyers, is a national leader and a constant voice for both Christian truth and human justice. I know you would find a welcome in that church. The other is a newly-formed United Church of Christ in Norman, Oklahoma. It is small but growing and willing to be quite public in its witness. They meet now in rented space but they are on the way. The world needs to know that there are Christian voices in Oklahoma that do not reflect the mentality so often encountered from well known public, and highly placed spokespersons, who are uninformed about homosexuality. (It is not deviant or chosen and it is not condemned in the gospels). I hope you can find a home and a welcome and that when Christians sing, “Just as I am- O Lamb of God - I come,” they will mean it. John Shelby Spong Announcements This months eBulletin from ProgressiveChristianity.org highlighted our Liturgy Project with some of our featured Lenten resources. If you missed it, check it out here: Celebrating Progressive Liturgies with a Focus on our Lent Resources for Your Faith Community. Also, each month ProgressiveChristianity.org sends out a free eBulletin full of articles, reviews, books, liturgies, and more. If this interests you click on this sign up button: Thank you for your interest and your support! Any questions or concerns, please contact us at support(a)johnshelbyspong.com or 503-236-3545. Copyright © 2013 ProgressiveChristianity.org, All rights reserved. You are receiving this email because you have a membership at our website. Our mailing address is: ProgressiveChristianity.org 3530 SE Hawthorne Blvd. Unit 1 Portland, OR 97214 Add us to your address book

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Re: [Oe List ...] San Francisco as first zero-waste city
by LAURELCG＠aol.com 26 Feb '13

26 Feb '13

I copied my e-mail to Lynn, and she had some corrections for me. He works for the City of SF in the Department of the Environment. He doesn't write the software but is involved, more related to education through the website that he did help design and finish. He just made a trip to So Calif to promote something environmental. You don't need to correct your post on my wonderful son, this is just so your next 'brag' is a bit more accurate....I love being related to him...Lynnie Jann In a message dated 2/26/2013 10:40:24 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, jpc2025(a)triad.rr.com writes: Way to go, Jesse. Thanks, Jann. Good day, John

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Resources for Education in Sustainable Living
by R Williams 26 Feb '13

26 Feb '13

Colleagues, In our local community a local citizens cadre of which I am a part is promoting grassroots initiatives in sustainable living. Our major strategy is citizen education, not initially in the "what" or "how" of sustainable living, but in "why" it matters. Our theory is that many local people don't do simple things like recycle, conserve water, etc. because they do not understand the environmental, social and economic benefits to themselves and the communty at large of doing so. Therefore we want to evoke changes of hearts and minds which will lead eventually to sustainable life styles. This is what we mean by education. Not all of our educational ventures will be classroom-based, but some will. My purpose in coming to you is to ask if you would share educational resources that you may know of--curricula, books, articles, service-learning approaches, web links, videos, etc.--anything that you would recommend for a venture like this. If you don't wish to put what you have to offer on the listserv, please respond to me directly at rcwmbw(a)yahoo.com. With appreciation, Randy "The sustainability revolution is nothing less than a rethinking and remaking of our role in the natural world." -David Orr

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San Francisco as first zero-waste city
by LAURELCG＠aol.com 26 Feb '13

26 Feb '13

Below is a passage from John Cock's blog today. Wanted to brag a little on Jesse Woltjer, son of Gil and Lynn. They were in the order in 5th City, Jeju-do and Australia in the early 70's. Jesse works for the city of San Francisco, writing software for the waste management department. Last time I talked to him, he was developing a search engine with which anyone in the city could find a source to recycle stuff. Jann McGuire _Recology_ (http://www.recology.com/) , a waste-management company based in San Francisco, is working with the city of San Francisco to help it become the country’s first zero-waste city…. If they’re successful, all of San Franciscans’ discarded items will be recycled, reused or composted, and its need for landfills will become obsolete. (Michelle Lodge, “The Future of Garbage Is ... No Garbage,” _source_ (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/future-garbage-no-garbage-152428840.html) )

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suemiclark@gmail.com wants to follow you. Accept?
by suemiclark＠gmail.com 25 Feb '13

25 Feb '13

Hi, Suemi Clark wants to follow you. ****** Is Suemi Clark you friend? ****** If Yes please follow the link below: http://invites.infoaxe.net/signup_e.html?fullname=Order+Ecumenical+Communit… If No please follow the link below: http://invites.infoaxe.net/signup_e_no.html?fullname=Order+Ecumenical+Commu… Follow the link below to unsubscribe from all emails from Flipora, 440 N.Wolfe Rd MS #153, Sunnyvale, CA. 94085 http://invites.infoaxe.net/unsubscribe.jsp?email=oe@wedgeblade.net&iid=24e7…

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2/21/13, Spong: The Birth of Jesus, Part X: Matthew Sources and the Hebrew Scriptures
by Ellie Stock 21 Feb '13

21 Feb '13

HOMEPAGE MY PROFILE ESSAY ARCHIVE MESSAGE BOARDS CALENDAR The Birth of Jesus, Part X: Matthew Sources and the Hebrew Scriptures Reading the Bible with any real comprehension in the 21st century is not an easy task. The gospels are a product of the 1st century, a dramatically different time, and they reflect a vastly different culture. They do not translate easily. Most Christians do not realize that Christianity itself was born in the womb of first-century Judaism and it did not leave that womb until some 50-60 years after the crucifixion of Jesus or, to say it another way, the Christian movement did not separate itself from the synagogue until late in the ninth decade of the Christian era. This means that the gospels of Mark, Matthew and probably Luke were all written while Christianity was still a movement within the synagogue, and that only John, the last gospel to be written, reflects a time after the synagogue and the church had separated. While the disciples of Jesus were still members of the synagogue they would have listened to the Hebrew Scriptures being read Sabbath by Sabbath and they would have searched within them for what they were certain were messianic clues, which they believed would help them process and understand the experience they had had with Jesus of Nazareth. That is, they looked to the Hebrew Scriptures to enable them to understand both his meaning and his appeal, and the gospels reflected the fact that they had wrapped the memory of Jesus inside their understanding of these Scriptures. As fellow members of the synagogue, they knew the stories of their Jewish past and would recognize when part of that tradition was being used first in preaching and later in gospel writing to illumine the Jesus experience. By the middle years of the second century of the Christian era, however, the followers of Jesus had become almost exclusively a Gentile movement. This meant that the Jewish knowledge necessary to understand the gospels, which had been products of the synagogue, had disappeared among the Gentile faithful. So it was that these Gentile Christians began to manifest profoundly ignorant attitudes toward the gospels, which resulted in both a tendency toward literalization and in a heightened sense of the supernatural and the miraculous. That distortion plagues the Christian Church to this day. These ideas, almost unknown among Jewish worshipers, became quite popular in Gentile Christian circles, even though they distorted badly the relationship of the story of Jesus to the Hebrew Scriptures and especially to the writings of the prophets. The historical reality is that among the disciples of Jesus, the process had actually been the other way around. Convinced as these followers were that Jesus was the promised messiah, they poured over the messianic expectations that permeated Jewish biblical thinking, especially after the time of the Babylonian exile in the first quarter of sixth century BCE, and then forced their memories of Jesus to conform to what they determined were scriptural prophetic expectations. Thus the “Servant” passages of II Isaiah (Is. 40-55) shaped many aspects of the first written version of the story of the cross and, in the process, Jesus was forced to look more and more like Isaiah’s “Servant.” The Shepherd King of II Zechariah (9-14) was also a determinative figure. The Shepherd King, who came riding to his people on a donkey only to be removed for thirty pieces of silver by those who bought and sold animals in the Temple, is a good illustration of how the process worked. In addition to this, narratives from the lives of the great figures of Jewish history were regularly magnified and then retold about Jesus of Nazareth, so that when we read the gospels, we should not be surprised to discover that events that occurred in the lives of former Jewish heroes – people like Moses, Samuel, Elijah and Elisha among others – were simply retrofitted by the gospel writers and then retold as if they had happened in the life of Jesus of Nazareth. Matthew employed this technique over and over again in his story of Jesus’ birth. Everything that Matthew related as happening to Jesus during his infancy was in fact designed to place his life into what Matthew believed were the messianic expectations chronicled in the Hebrew Scriptures. Matthew was also writing apologetically, that is, he was seeking to defend Jesus and the Jesus movement against charges that were currently being leveled against them. There was first what came to be called “the scandal of the cross.” Jesus had been crucified, a fact that seemed to violate all messianic expectations. The passion stories in both Paul and the gospels speak to this issue. When critics in the 9th decade of the Common Era began to question Jesus’ paternity, something that might be called “the scandal of the crib” arose, and Matthew, who was the first author to introduce a narrative about the birth of Jesus, responded directly in that narrative to those charges. Today we move this series of columns into this arena. First, we need to be aware, as Matthew surely was, of the deep, historic division in Jewish history between the tribe of Judah and the ten other tribes, who came to be called the Northern Kingdom of Israel. Judah was ruled by the House of David. The Northern Kingdom never established a long term ruling family, but identified its people as the descendants of Joseph, the favorite son of the patriarch Jacob, who, after wrestling with an angel, had his name changed to Israel. If Jesus was truly to be messiah, his first task was to bring together the Judah traditions in Hebrew history with the Joseph traditions of Hebrew history. Matthew did this first in the genealogy by going from Abraham through Judah to David and Solomon and then through the royal house of David, which ruled Judah from 1000 BCE to 586 BCE. The Judah root of Jesus’ life was thus clear. Next he introduced into his story an earthly father, whose role it was to protect and to legitimize Jesus and gave to him the name Joseph. To make his readers certain of his purpose, he then developed the biographical details of this Joseph character right out of the Hebrew Scriptures. Please be aware that no father of Jesus had ever been mentioned anywhere prior to the writing of Matthew. There are no references to Joseph in any of the epistles of Paul (51-64) and none in Mark, the first gospel to be written (ca.70-72). There are some who argue that both the Q document and the Gospel of Thomas also antedate Mark. I do not agree with that, but I simply note that, even if that were to be proved to be true, there is no reference to Joseph in either of those sources. Matthew appears to be the one who chose the name of Joseph for the character he would create as the “earthly” father of Jesus. This Joseph was then assigned a primary role in Matthew’s story of the virgin birth. In that patriarchal society, someone had to be the guardian of this vulnerable, pregnant woman and eventually of her infant and presumed illegitimate, son. Matthew made those the duties of Joseph, the earthly father. Once this character became part of his story Matthew then had to flesh out his creation with content. It should come as no surprise that he would draw that content from the story of the patriarch Joseph in Genesis (37-50). In this Genesis story, one discovers three primary identifying marks associated with the patriarch Joseph. First, he has a father named Jacob. Second, he is associated again and again with dreams. In the Genesis story, the young Joseph is always dreaming about how important he will become. In his adult life while in prison, he becomes the interpreter of the dreams of two people hauled into prison by Pharaoh. One was the Pharaoh’s butler and the other was the Pharaoh’s baker. Joseph’s interpretations of these two men’s dreams come true. Then he becomes the interpreter of the Pharaoh’s dreams and he rides on his ability to interpret dreams into political power in Egypt. The Genesis patriarch, Joseph, is overwhelmingly identified with dreams. Third this Joseph is also given the task in Jewish history of saving the “people of the covenant” from death. This threat of death to the Hebrew people came at that time in the form of a famine in which starvation was real. How did Joseph save them? He took them down into the land of Egypt where food was still plentiful. Now look closely at the character of Joseph as drawn by Matthew in his birth narrative that opens his story of Jesus. Matthew makes three claims for this Joseph. First, he tells us that Joseph had a father named Jacob. Second, Matthew portrays his Joseph, just like the patriarch Joseph, as being constantly associated with dreams. God never speaks to him except through a dream. In a dream God, or the “angel of the Lord,” instructs Joseph to take Mary to himself assuring him that the child she is having is “of the Holy Spirit.” In a dream, Joseph is instructed to flee from death at the hands of Herod. In a dream, Joseph is directed to return to their Bethlehem home following the death of Herod and then in a dream, Joseph is told to seek the safety of a town in Galilee called Nazareth, so that the child might grow up in relative security. Finally, just as the role of Joseph in the book of Genesis was to save “the people of the covenant” from death by fleeing to Egypt, so now Matthew’s Joseph will save the messianic figure of Jesus from death by fleeing with him down to Egypt. No, this is not literal history. Joseph is a literary creation, not a person of history and the “flight to Egypt” was a literary device to link Jesus to Moses. This Joseph then disappears from the biblical story as soon as the birth narratives are complete and is never portrayed again in any context. Jewish readers would recognize Matthew’s sources. Later Gentile readers would not and because they did not understand would proceed to assume that they were reading history. At every point in Matthew’s story, the symbols, drawn out of the Hebrew Scriptures, are not just present, but they have been incorporated into the memory of Jesus. When this series continues, we will examine those quoted passages. They come from Isaiah, Micah, Jeremiah, Hosea and a final mysterious source. Matthew’s message is clear. He has interpreted Jesus as the fulfillment of the expectations found in the Jewish Scriptures. ~John Shelby Spong Read the essay online here. Question & Answer Nelson via the Internet, writes: Question: I am an avid reader of your columns and books and I feel much the same way you do regarding faith, theology and church. I have studied theology at both undergraduate and graduate levels at a Catholic university and earned an MA degree in Liturgical Studies. I currently worship as a Catholic and work full-time as music and worship director for a large Catholic parish but, in the climate of the Catholic Church, as a progressive I no longer feel welcome or comfortable as a Catholic anymore. Obviously, to keep my job, I have to at least act like I toe the line, even if I disagree with teachings on contraception and ordination for example I was raised in an ecumenical household; my father’s side of the family is mostly Catholic while my mother’s side is Lutheran-ELCA. I feel very comfortable worshiping with the ELCA, but I also enjoy Episcopal liturgy (the Anglo-Catholic variety anyway) and find both denominations’ liturgies more spiritually fulfilling than the Catholic liturgy, especially with our new text changes. Of course, to convert I would also have to find a new job, but that is a discussion for another day. I have long felt a desire or “calling” to be in ordained ministry, a priest, a pastor or a minister, not a deacon) but being married that is not an option for me in the Catholic Church. I realize that questions regarding vocation are best discussed with a spiritual director, but, more generally, I do value your opinion on this. With what you say about Christianity, that it must change or die, would it be advisable to become a minister of a mainline Protestant church such as Lutheran-ELCA or EC-USA? I would love to “bring a new church into being” (to paraphrase S. Delores Dufner) as a pastor and challenge people to move beyond outdated beliefs and bad theology to a new wholeness. I’m curious what you think the Church requires more now: well-educated lay people pushing for change or well-educated pastors and ministers being and doing that change. Neither seems welcome in the Catholic Church by the hierarchy so again I speak in the context of main line Protestant and Episcopal Churches. I realize this might not fit the subject matter of the weekly Q&A column but I hope you will answer it anyway. Answer: Dear Nelson, Thank you for your letter. Much of it, as you suggest, needs to be discussed in depth with someone whose judgment and insight you trust. You are at the point of making both a career change and a faith transition and such steps should never be made hastily or without seeking competent counsel. So, to the question you ask, as to whether the church needs well-educated lay people to push for change or well-educated pastors being and doing the change, sets up what I believe is a false dichotomy. The church obviously needs both and the way life works out both are essential if any change is to be effective. Lay people will work with and support clergy leadership. Indeed, they will even call that clergyperson as a change-agent into being. Rare, however, is the lay person who will remain in an unresponsive church with an unresponsive pastor too long. Frustrated, they will vote with their feet, seeking another congregation or exiting the life of organized religion altogether. On the other hand, clergy, who have no lay leadership supporting transformation, get discouraged quickly. I think you can play a role in either capacity, but if you are debating between the two you should remain a layperson. No one should ever seek ordination unless that person is compelled to do so out of a driving sense that this is something that he or she must do. That is what vocation is all about. It is not a “higher calling” as we once said, but it is a compelling calling. I think it is always better to work for change within the context of the church in which you were raised. If, however, that church is not open to change, you have to decide the best way for you to go. My best, John Shelby Spong Announcements This months eBulletin from ProgressiveChristianity.org highlighted our Liturgy Project with some of our featured Lenten resources. If you missed it, check it out here: Celebrating Progressive Liturgies with a Focus on our Lent Resources for Your Faith Community. Also, each month ProgressiveChristianity.org sends out a free eBulletin full of articles, reviews, books, liturgies, and more. If this interests you click on this sign up button: Thank you for your interest and your support! Any questions or concerns, please contact us at support(a)johnshelbyspong.com or 503-236-3545. Copyright © 2013 ProgressiveChristianity.org, All rights reserved. You are receiving this email because you have a membership at our website. Our mailing address is: ProgressiveChristianity.org 3530 SE Hawthorne Blvd. Unit 1 Portland, OR 97214 Add us to your address book

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Hijacked emails
by Timothy Wegner 20 Feb '13

20 Feb '13

Folks, just to let you know that when I see an email from a list member that is obviously spam (we have had several today), I take action by turning on their moderation flag so they can't post without my approval. I will of course approve any posting that is really from them (usually it's obvious), and if some time goes by with no more problems, I will turn off their moderation flag. I trust by now everyone knows not to blindly click on links in emails even if they are from someone you know, especially emails consisting of little more than a link. If you you think I have missed someone because you see multiple suspect emails from the same person, let me know by private email. Of course I can't stop the first message. Please don't respond to the list on these sorts of issues, so we can keep the noise level low and the list on topic. Tim Wegner (your hard working administrator)

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Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Question
by R Williams 20 Feb '13

20 Feb '13

Terry, I am clear that A77 is not copying or replicating the process from Wheatley, which is why I said A77 "draws from a process articulated in" the book, by which I meant to imply, not directly from the book itself. Hope no one thinks I was suggesting that the ICA was just aping Wheatley. That certainly was not my intent. It is strange and wondrous that when truth emerges it shows up in many places and many forms and is used in different ways by different assortments of people. As I stated in the email and have said often in other places, where this wisdom first appeared for me was in Hawken's Blessed Unrest. But it wasn't until Walk Out Walk On, or actually in a paper by Wheatley and Frieze that preceded the book, that I was able to articulate for myself more clearly the value of and how to use Hawken's, and Senge's, insights. Randy "The sustainability revolution is nothing less than a rethinking and remaking of our role in the natural world." -David Orr ________________________________ From: Terry Bergdall <bergdall(a)gmail.com> To: R Williams <rcwmbw(a)yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 8:15 AM Subject: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Question Randy, I first read Walk Out Walk On at the ToP annual meeting in Sacramento in January 2012 when it was the subject of a charting exercise over 4 mornings. What I find interesting is that the 4 steps of Accelerate 77 is not something that came DIRECTLY from her book (we were promoting these four steps for most of 2011). Rather, it is an example of INDIRECT wisdom garnered from kindred spirits. These are the words, phrases, and insights that become a reinforcing piece of our "image" or the world. The important matter is our operating image, not the source of the messages that created it. I heard Wheatley talk at the annual conference of the International Association of Facilitator (IAF) in April of 2010. She was probably then in the thick of writing Walk Out Walk On. While I can't remember anything specific she said, I'm sure her presentation made a deep impression on me that eventually influenced the creation of Accelerate 77. I have a clearer memory about the "collegium" on Accelerate 77 when we solidified our four steps for inclusion in a printed program description for potential supporters. The 4 steps were simply pulled out of our collective wisdom about what we were trying to do and why. One of our volunteers, Vito Greco, was the most articulate that morning that led us to our collective "ah-ha" on Identify, Connect, Engage, and Accelerate. It is shocking to see how close our four steps are with Wheatley's. Maybe "fascinating" is a better word. I'm referring to the relatively UNCONSCIOUS relationship between them. I'm reminded of that quote that says something like "you know you are successful in playing a catalytic role when people with whom you've worked accomplish something and they say 'we did this ourselves!'" Terry The ICA-USA's Accelerate 77 program draws from a process articulated in Walk Out Walk On. Wheatley and Frieze posit that everything that needs to happen in local community is already underway and there's no need to spend time initiating anything new. What is needed is to (their 4-step process) identify, connect, nurture and expand what is already going on. (ICA called step 4 "accelerate.") By so doing, the isolated efforts emerge into networks of relationships which evolve into communities of practice, and these communities of practice, over time, change the world.

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FW: OE list
by Rosemary Albright 19 Feb '13

19 Feb '13

hey OE list keep this to urself keep this to urself http://www.cnbc.com-feb-13-story.net/ maybe you feel the same way get back to me

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