December 2012 - OE - lists.wedgeblade.net

Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Thinking the Unthinkable
by Len Hockley 17 Dec '12

17 Dec '12

Do we need to address the problem of gun control? Of course we do, but the "important article to read" mentioned below, I think, points how we might be able to make an end run around gun control to hit a major contradiction. one that does not carry the hot button responses to gun control. Let's, for instance, fund in a big way local mental health facilities. It's not to say that health care legislation does not have its controversial aspects, but the gun control opponents just might go for some serious mental health support if they thought they could put off other legislation. Len On 12/16/2012 6:34 AM, facilitationfla(a)aol.com wrote: > An important article to read: re lack of health care for mentally ill > -- in light of Sandy Hook > > http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.com/ > > I tried to send the article to Chris Hayes (Up with Chris) and asked > him to have program on this subject. > > Her other article -- War on women (October?) was also very good > > Cynthia Vance > _______________________________________________ > Dialogue mailing list > Dialogue(a)lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net > >

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Re: [Oe List ...] Sandy Hook and Gun Control: Something to do
by George Holcombe 16 Dec '12

16 Dec '12

If you have don't this already. here is something you can do right now. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/immediately-address-issue-gun-con… George Holcombe 14900 Yellowleaf Tr. Austin, TX 78728 Mobile 512/252-2756 geowanda(a)earthlink.net Hope appeareth, but it is not your Hope—you do not have anything to do with it. It just appeareth. It comes as a stranger, as an alien—it just appeareth! You do not even know why you hope. How in the world could you hope when there is absolutely nothing to justify any hope? ~Joseph W. Mathews

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Re: [Oe List ...] Start the conversation
by coevolutionacademy＠juno.com 16 Dec '12

16 Dec '12

Obviously we need to change the gun laws but I'm asking myself, what is the depth spirit contradiction? I'm asking myself how do I need to change, go deeper, get quieter, listen, heal, love and from that kind of place, discern what I can do to help change the culture and along with it the symbols and stories. Focusing on the external is not going to make deep change - but of course it is needed. I'm ruminating. Feeling sorrow. Making a commitment to work more intensley on my self first and to listen deeply. Rose Anne ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Jack Gilles <jackcgilles(a)gmail.com> To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Start the conversation Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 15:38:34 -0600 Lee, Thanks for starting this conversation. Lets see how much energy and movement there is by national officials and elected people. I fear that the NRA and others will again block any actions. It may not be one of those issues that can be dealt with head on although we all want to. Maybe we need to think of indirect approaches, especially at the symbolic level like silent vigals, wearing a symbol etc. We know about the power of symbol and story and maybe that is a way to respond. Peace, Jack Sent from my iPad On Dec 14, 2012, at 3:27 PM, Lee Early <lees.mail(a)comcast.net> wrote: > It is brainstorm time. What can we do to change the "gun culture" of our nation? > > Nationally, state wide, locally and personally. > > The social act of repentance might be a good place to start: > > 1. Become aware of injustice > 2. Turn your back on it > 3. Abolish within yourself > 4. Lead society > > BUT, this is a brainstorm. If the above is a helpful start, great. If not, feel free to come up with a different framework or, just share some ideas. > > The conversation needs to happen now. > > Lee > > Lee Early > 19230 Forest Park Dr. NE, A102 > Lake Forest Park, WA 98155 > > Home: (206) 922-3182 > Lee's mobile: (425) 212-7997 > > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net ____________________________________________________________ Woman is 57 But Looks 27 Mom publishes simple facelift trick that angered doctors... http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/50ccb00fc01f6300f17fcst01vuc

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The face of the tiger
by Lee Early 16 Dec '12

16 Dec '12

No matter where people stand on the issue of firearms, the facts below about guns and violence may challenge their preconceptions and complicate a search for easy answers. Each listing contains a link so you can explore pertinent documents, articles or data on the Web. (The links are case-sensitive.) 1. Shooting sprees are not rare in the United States. Mother Jones has tracked and mapped every shooting spree in the last three decades. "Since 1982, there have been at least 61 mass murders carried out with firearms across the country, with the killings unfolding in 30 states from Massachusetts to Hawaii," researchers found. And in most cases, the killers had obtained their weapons legally. 2. Eleven of the 20 worst mass shootings in the past 50 years took place in the United States. In second place is Finland, with two entries. In July, Time posted the full list (via Associated Press): 3. Of the 12 deadliest shootings in the United States, six have happened from 2007 onward. That includes the Newtown, Conn., shooting. The preliminary death toll of 27 would make it the second-deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history. 4. America is an unusually violent country. But we're not as violent as we used to be. Kieran Healy, a sociologist at Duke University, in July made a graph of "deaths due to assault" in the United States and other developed countries. The United States is a clear outlier, with rates well above other countries. As Healy writes, "The most striking features of the data are (1) how much more violent the U.S. is than other countries (except possibly Estonia and Mexico), and (2) the degree of change — and recently, decline — there has been in the U.S." 5. The South is the most violent region in the United States. (Tell me about it.) In a subsequent post, Healy drilled further into the numbers and looked at deaths due to assault in different regions of the country. Just as the United States is a clear outlier in the international context, the South is a clear outlier in the national context. 6. Gun ownership in the United States is declining overall. "For all the attention given to America's culture of guns, ownership of firearms is at or near all-time lows," political scientist Patrick Egan, of New York University, wrote in July. The decline is most evident on the General Social Survey, though it also shows up on polling from Gallup. The bottom line, Egan writes, is that "long-term trends suggest that we are in fact currently experiencing a waning culture of guns and violence in the United States." 7. More guns tend to mean more homicide. The Harvard Injury Control Research Center assessed the literature on guns and homicide and found that there's substantial evidence that indicates more guns means more murders. This holds true whether you're looking at different countries or different states. 8. States with stricter gun-control laws have fewer deaths from gun-related violence. Last year, economist Richard Florida dived deep into the correlations between gun deaths and other kinds of social indicators. Some of what he found was, perhaps, unexpected: Higher populations, more stress, more immigrants and more mental illness were not correlated with more deaths from gun violence. But one thing he found was, perhaps, perfectly predictable: States with tighter gun-control laws appear to have fewer gun-related deaths. The disclaimer here is that correlation is not causation. But correlations can be suggestive. "The map overlays the map of firearm deaths above with gun-control restrictions by state," explains Florida. "It highlights states which have one of three gun-control restrictions in place — assault-weapon bans, trigger locks or safe-storage requirements. Firearm deaths are significantly lower in states with stricter gun-control legislation. Though the sample sizes are small, we find substantial negative correlations between firearm deaths and states that ban assault weapons (-.45), require trigger locks (-.42) and mandate safe-storage requirements for guns (-.48)." 9. Gun control, in general, has not been politically popular. Since 1990, Gallup has been asking Americans whether they think gun-control laws should be stricter. The answer, increasingly, is that they don't. "The percentage in favor of making the laws governing the sale of firearms 'more strict' fell from 78 percent in 1990 to 62 percent in 1995, and 51 percent in 2007," Gallup reported after the Tucson, Ariz., shooting in 2011. "In the most recent reading, Gallup in 2010 found 44 percent in favor of stricter laws. In fact, in 2009 and again last year, the slight majority said gun laws should either remain the same or be made less strict." 10. But particular policies to control guns often are. An August CNN/ORC poll asked respondents whether they favor or oppose a number of specific policies to restrict gun ownership. And when you drill down to that level, many policies, including banning the manufacture and possession of semi-automatic rifles, are popular. About 90 percent support background checks and no guns for felons or the mentally ill. 11. Shootings don't tend to substantially affect views on gun control. In a poll taken after the Colorado movie-theater shooting that killed 12 on July 20, Pew Research Center reported "47 percent say it is more important to control gun ownership, while 46 percent say it is more important to protect American" rights to own guns — virtually unchanged from a survey in April, when 45 percent prioritized gun control and 49 percent gun rights." Okay, I have a question: Once we have lured the tiger out of his lair, what do we do? It seems as though the tiger is out in the open and in plain sight. Now what? Lee Lee Early 19230 Forest Park Dr. NE, A102 Lake Forest Park, WA 98155 Home: (206) 922-3182 Lee's mobile: (425) 212-7997

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Guns
by Lee Early 15 Dec '12

15 Dec '12

Good start. It'd be good to great when more women get into this. Frankly, I doubt we'd be in such a mess had women had more of a voice. Too many male egos and other body parts involved for too long. Lee Sent from my iPhone

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Re. Start the conversation
by Michael Shaw 15 Dec '12

15 Dec '12

How do we let others know our concern and willingness to engage? Is the email. Below relevant to the conversation? Peace, Michael sent from my phone Begin forwarded message: > From: "Chris Bowers, Daily Kos" <campaigns(a)dailykos.com> > Date: December 15, 2012, 11:22:26 PST > To: D.michael.shaw(a)comcast.net > Subject: We have to talk about this > Reply-To: campaigns(a)dailykos.com > > > Douglas, please click here to sign our petition asking President Obama to help start a national conversation about gun control. > > If we don't start talking now, when will we ever? And if the president doesn't lead the discussion, who will? > > Please click here to sign the petition. We will deliver the signatures to the White House. > > Thank you, > Chris Bowers > Campaign Director, Daily Kos > > P.S. Please help keep Daily Kos strong by chipping in $3. > To unsubscribe from ALL Daily Kos emails, visit this link. To opt-out ONLY from action emails, visit this link. >

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FW: THE OCEAN AS YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN BEFORE!
by Del Morril 15 Dec '12

15 Dec '12

Thanks to Jean I just felt the need to pass on the address below . I'm continually amazed at the fantastic varieties of species on our earth, most of which we never have the opportunity to see except through exceptional and daring photographers. (http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150437602120757 seems to be the necessary address to cut/paste in order to get into it.) As for me, I'm finally back after over a month at a rehab center following full knee replacement surgery. In keeping with the "one-thing-after-another" year, I received an aggressive and dangerous intestinal infection that kept me two weeks longer waiting out the 14 day antibiotic period. But I'm now fine, standing up straight for the first time in over a year and 1-1/2" taller. It's also about the first time in somewhere around 2 years that I haven't been in fairly intense pain. So I am MOST HAPPY, and loving being home. Gen and Mike will join us with Anita, Sam and their kids for Christmas. The house is decorated - Justin sees to that each year and surpassed himself again. Thanks to all for your good well-wishes and lovely holiday cards. Del The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek. (Joseph Campbell) _____ Who knew that all this beauty waited below the sea. Spectacular! Click here <http://www.youtube.com/embed/2uUk9K9TQhg> The Ocean as you have not seen it before To see names & species click CC, before switching to full screen.

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Guns
by jlepps＠pc.jaring.my 15 Dec '12

15 Dec '12

Thanks, Lee, for starting this conversation, and for all the contributions. Here's my two cents: I. CONTEXT I grew up in a home where guns were part of the normal possessions. I've owned a BB, a 22, a 410, and a couple of 12-gage shotguns (though I never was a hunter). Dad, my brother and I all participated in skeet shooting as a hobby, and spent many hours loading shotgun shells for re-use at the range. There was plenty of safety training, both at home and through Boy Scouts. Then in my brief stint with the Army, I earned a sharpshooter medal on the rifle range and learned a lot about the M-1 (major learning: don't point it at anything you don't intend to kill). For the past 20+ years I have lived in Malaysia where it is a capital offense to own a gun or a bullet, and people have been sent to the gallows for the possession of a single bullet. Occasionally criminals have been found to possess guns -- usually after they've been shot dead by the police. Criminals still function, but usually with machetes. So my personal relation to the issue has some ambiguity. One other bit of context: We DID succeed with the smoking issue, and that was QUITE a cultural transformation. It's not impossible. II. IDEAS In addition to the analysis recommended by Randy & Jack, it seems to me some strategic thinking is in order, and a very appropriate way to begin is with the Chinese strategem, "Lure the Tiger out of the mountains." The insight is, if you go tiger hunting, don't do it on the tiger's home turf. That's a strategy for getting eaten! You lure the tiger onto your home turf. Put another way, make it an advantage for the enemy to agree with you. Of course identifying the tiger in this situation is complex. Is it the NRA or gun-owners or the firearms industry? Probably all of the above. So in this case the "tiger bait" might be inviting a debate around the theme of protecting your home & family. One of the arguments from proponents of guns is to provide protection against burglars & other intruders. The rational "hook" in the bait would be to compare statistics of those who've wounded or killed burglars vs those who've been accidentally killed or otherwise murdered with abundant guns. I'm guessing that the statistics would be around 1,000 to 1. But rationality never convinces anyone, though it can disclose the fallacy of an argument. To this, we might add the proposition that all newly built homes are required to have a burglar alarm system installed and connected to the police station. Existing homes could be retro-fitted (with a tax incentive.- similar to the solar energy incentive, this one creatively named "Home Protection System." Think of the jobs!) Another part of the strategy is to make it disadvantageous to oppose gun control. That's what happened when schoolchildren began hassling parents who were smokers. What if school curricula had a module that pointed out the crudity and danger of guns? Then kids might, instead of playing gun-games, become advocates of no-gun games. (In addition to my previously-mentioned firearm collection, I also had a couple of fine cap pistols!) In terms of regulation, perhaps there might be licenses for hunting (already, but add a license for the gun(s) used); license for skeet shooting, and a license for home protection. The latter would be issued with the purchase of the gun, and a locked container to secure it with a complicated combination. Of course there needs to be a ban on civilian ownership of assault weapons and multi-shot magazines. These regulations simply make it more inconvenient for gun users to operate. In addition to licenses, it might be interesting to require purchasers of guns to be enrolled in a "citizen's militia" (the Constitution says that is the basis for the right to bear arms) run by the NRA & local police and conducting required training in safety in use of firearms. The unit might even develop drill teams and perform at sports events! Take a look at this as what a good drill team can look like: http://sorisomail.com/email/16993/exibicao-de-banda-militar--um-espectaculo… Maybe that would make it easier for the "tigers" to agree. Still it will take some doing -- maybe even some pilot projects (God forbid!). Anyway brainstorms are meant to generate ideas. Of course the cries for increased mental health need to be implemented. Those strategies are long range and necessary. John

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Start the conversation
by Lee Early 15 Dec '12

15 Dec '12

It is brainstorm time. What can we do to change the "gun culture" of our nation? Nationally, state wide, locally and personally. The social act of repentance might be a good place to start: 1. Become aware of injustice 2. Turn your back on it 3. Abolish within yourself 4. Lead society BUT, this is a brainstorm. If the above is a helpful start, great. If not, feel free to come up with a different framework or, just share some ideas. The conversation needs to happen now. Lee Lee Early 19230 Forest Park Dr. NE, A102 Lake Forest Park, WA 98155 Home: (206) 922-3182 Lee's mobile: (425) 212-7997

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Sorting out the Seasons
by David Zahrt 15 Dec '12

15 Dec '12

I think this is appropriate for the Advent Season. In working through my relationship to the seasons I began to see a connection between Advent, Easter and the seasons {attached] Or its up on Wedgeblade. You can go to < http://wiki.wedgeblade.net/pub/Main/DavidZahrt/SORTING_OUT_THE_SEASONS.pdf> and view it. David

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