It is brainstorm time. What can we do to change the "gun culture" of our nation? Nationally, state wide, locally and personally. The social act of repentance might be a good place to start: 1. Become aware of injustice 2. Turn your back on it 3. Abolish within yourself 4. Lead society BUT, this is a brainstorm. If the above is a helpful start, great. If not, feel free to come up with a different framework or, just share some ideas. The conversation needs to happen now. Lee Lee Early 19230 Forest Park Dr. NE, A102 Lake Forest Park, WA 98155 Home: (206) 922-3182 Lee's mobile: (425) 212-7997
Thank you, Lee. On 12/14/12 3:27 PM, "Lee Early" <lees.mail@comcast.net> wrote:
It is brainstorm time. What can we do to change the "gun culture" of our nation?
Nationally, state wide, locally and personally.
The social act of repentance might be a good place to start:
1. Become aware of injustice 2. Turn your back on it 3. Abolish within yourself 4. Lead society
BUT, this is a brainstorm. If the above is a helpful start, great. If not, feel free to come up with a different framework or, just share some ideas.
The conversation needs to happen now.
Lee
Lee Early 19230 Forest Park Dr. NE, A102 Lake Forest Park, WA 98155
Home: (206) 922-3182 Lee's mobile: (425) 212-7997
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Lee, Thanks for starting this conversation. Lets see how much energy and movement there is by national officials and elected people. I fear that the NRA and others will again block any actions. It may not be one of those issues that can be dealt with head on although we all want to. Maybe we need to think of indirect approaches, especially at the symbolic level like silent vigals, wearing a symbol etc. We know about the power of symbol and story and maybe that is a way to respond. Peace, Jack Sent from my iPad On Dec 14, 2012, at 3:27 PM, Lee Early <lees.mail@comcast.net> wrote:
It is brainstorm time. What can we do to change the "gun culture" of our nation?
Nationally, state wide, locally and personally.
The social act of repentance might be a good place to start:
1. Become aware of injustice 2. Turn your back on it 3. Abolish within yourself 4. Lead society
BUT, this is a brainstorm. If the above is a helpful start, great. If not, feel free to come up with a different framework or, just share some ideas.
The conversation needs to happen now.
Lee
Lee Early 19230 Forest Park Dr. NE, A102 Lake Forest Park, WA 98155
Home: (206) 922-3182 Lee's mobile: (425) 212-7997
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
JUST A PASSING THOUGHT:RE: Gun culture-- Where does it--or its antithesis--show up on the Social Process triangles? Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Early" <lees.mail@comcast.net> To: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; "OE: Dialogue Dialogue" <OE@topica.com> Cc: "ICA Dialogue Dialogue" <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 3:27 PM Subject: [Oe List ...] Start the conversation
It is brainstorm time. What can we do to change the "gun culture" of our nation?
Nationally, state wide, locally and personally.
The social act of repentance might be a good place to start:
1. Become aware of injustice 2. Turn your back on it 3. Abolish within yourself 4. Lead society
BUT, this is a brainstorm. If the above is a helpful start, great. If not, feel free to come up with a different framework or, just share some ideas.
The conversation needs to happen now.
Lee
Lee Early 19230 Forest Park Dr. NE, A102 Lake Forest Park, WA 98155
Home: (206) 922-3182 Lee's mobile: (425) 212-7997
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2634/5959 - Release Date: 12/14/12
Probably when the second amendment was passed on December 15, 1791, 221 years ago tomorrow, it would have been under domestic tranquility. That suggests to me that the story about guns and the role they play in terms of their ability to provide security and tranquility is really out of date. Maybe the place to start, as Jack suggested, is with a new story regarding the place of guns that starts with responsibility rather than rights. Randy "Whatever the problem, community is the answer. There is no power greater than a community discovering what it cares about." Margaret Wheatley ________________________________ From: William Salmon <wsalmon@cox.net> To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 3:53 PM Subject: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Start the conversation JUST A PASSING THOUGHT:RE: Gun culture-- Where does it--or its antithesis--show up on the Social Process triangles? Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Early" <lees.mail@comcast.net> To: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; "OE: Dialogue Dialogue" <OE@topica.com> Cc: "ICA Dialogue Dialogue" <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 3:27 PM Subject: [Oe List ...] Start the conversation
It is brainstorm time. What can we do to change the "gun culture" of our nation?
Nationally, state wide, locally and personally.
The social act of repentance might be a good place to start:
1. Become aware of injustice 2. Turn your back on it 3. Abolish within yourself 4. Lead society
BUT, this is a brainstorm. If the above is a helpful start, great. If not, feel free to come up with a different framework or, just share some ideas.
The conversation needs to happen now.
Lee
Lee Early 19230 Forest Park Dr. NE, A102 Lake Forest Park, WA 98155
Home: (206) 922-3182 Lee's mobile: (425) 212-7997
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com/ Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2634/5959 - Release Date: 12/14/12
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Randy, Good thinking. The anniversary date is an incredible coincidence. If you would think of what might be a 21st Century story that would affirm that amendment might contain it might be a great symbolic way to start. Such a document could go virile if done well. Jack Sent from my iPad On Dec 14, 2012, at 3:59 PM, R Williams <rcwmbw@yahoo.com> wrote: Probably when the second amendment was passed on December 15, 1791, 221 years ago tomorrow, it would have been under domestic tranquility. That suggests to me that the story about guns and the role they play in terms of their ability to provide security and tranquility is really out of date. Maybe the place to start, as Jack suggested, is with a new story regarding the place of guns that starts with responsibility rather than rights. Randy *"Whatever the problem, community is the answer. There is no power greater than a community discovering what it cares about." *Margaret Wheatley *From:* William Salmon <wsalmon@cox.net> *To:* Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> *Sent:* Friday, December 14, 2012 3:53 PM *Subject:* [Oe List ...] Salmon: Start the conversation JUST A PASSING THOUGHT:RE: Gun culture-- Where does it--or its antithesis--show up on the Social Process triangles? Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Early" <lees.mail@comcast.net> To: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; "OE: Dialogue Dialogue" <OE@topica.com> Cc: "ICA Dialogue Dialogue" <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 3:27 PM Subject: [Oe List ...] Start the conversation
It is brainstorm time. What can we do to change the "gun culture" of our nation?
Nationally, state wide, locally and personally.
The social act of repentance might be a good place to start:
1. Become aware of injustice 2. Turn your back on it 3. Abolish within yourself 4. Lead society
BUT, this is a brainstorm. If the above is a helpful start, great. If not, feel free to come up with a different framework or, just share some ideas.
The conversation needs to happen now.
Lee
Lee Early 19230 Forest Park Dr. NE, A102 Lake Forest Park, WA 98155
Home: (206) 922-3182 Lee's mobile: (425) 212-7997
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com/ Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2634/5959 - Release Date: 12/14/12
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Jack, It might be a valuable exercise if several of us, working at first independently, were to do a re-write of the amendment to put it into a C21 context. Trying to re-locate it in the SP might be a way to start. Then we could put all our individual efforts together and see what comes out of the mix. Randy "Whatever the problem, community is the answer. There is no power greater than a community discovering what it cares about." Margaret Wheatley ________________________________ From: Jack Gilles <jackcgilles@gmail.com> To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 4:18 PM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Start the conversation Randy, Good thinking. The anniversary date is an incredible coincidence. If you would think of what might be a 21st Century story that would affirm that amendment might contain it might be a great symbolic way to start. Such a document could go virile if done well. Jack Sent from my iPad On Dec 14, 2012, at 3:59 PM, R Williams <rcwmbw@yahoo.com> wrote: Probably when the second amendment was passed on December 15, 1791, 221 years ago tomorrow, it would have been under domestic tranquility. That suggests to me that the story about guns and the role they play in terms of their ability to provide security and tranquility is really out of date. Maybe the place to start, as Jack suggested, is with a new story regarding the place of guns that starts with responsibility rather than rights.
Randy
"Whatever the problem, community is the answer. There is no power greater than a community discovering what it cares about." Margaret Wheatley
________________________________ From: William Salmon <wsalmon@cox.net> To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 3:53 PM Subject: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Start the conversation
JUST A PASSING THOUGHT:RE: Gun culture-- Where does it--or its antithesis--show up on the Social Process triangles? Bill
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Early" <lees.mail@comcast.net> To: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; "OE: Dialogue Dialogue" <OE@topica.com> Cc: "ICA Dialogue Dialogue" <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 3:27 PM Subject: [Oe List ...] Start the conversation
It is brainstorm time. What can we do to change the "gun culture" of our nation?
Nationally, state wide, locally and personally.
The social act of repentance might be a good place to start:
1. Become aware of injustice 2. Turn your back on it 3. Abolish within yourself 4. Lead society
BUT, this is a brainstorm. If the above is a helpful start, great. If not, feel free to come up with a different framework or, just share some ideas.
The conversation needs to happen now.
Lee
Lee Early 19230 Forest Park Dr. NE, A102 Lake Forest Park, WA 98155
Home: (206) 922-3182 Lee's mobile: (425) 212-7997
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net
http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com/ Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2634/5959 - Release Date: 12/14/12
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________
OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
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Randy, you're a dandy. How do we satiate the Baals? Domestic Tranquility could well be the answer. There is no appropriate response such as gun control. My friend, a gun freak, would say the response to Sandy Hook would be for someone who had a licensed gun to defend the children and kill the gunboy; thus, the more guns the better. The answer is changing our gun culture. Doesn't Great Britain still make it illegal to possess guns. Are the London "Bobbies" still unarmed? If so, this is the direction that is necessary to take. Perhaps, the Supreme Court will take up the definition of the "Right to Bear Arms." Is this a right reserved for those trained in a "citizen's army," or is it the right of every homeowner to bear arms in its own defense. Recently, in Wichita, KS, an intruder was shot while invading a home. Is the purpose for gun ownership? As for me and my house, I do not keep guns, although, I am not opposed to the use of guns for hunting or recreation. The ultimate question to be answered is, how to we change a nation's attitude about guns when we punish prisoners with the death penalty, and support a military presence around the world? The god Moloch (one of the Baals) gets fed regularly with the young fruit of our loins. During this event in Connecticut, old Molly must be vomiting from the kill. Inner Peace, says it more than ever! Bill Salmon ----- Original Message ----- From: R Williams To: Order Ecumenical Community Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 3:59 PM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Start the conversation Probably when the second amendment was passed on December 15, 1791, 221 years ago tomorrow, it would have been under domestic tranquility. That suggests to me that the story about guns and the role they play in terms of their ability to provide security and tranquility is really out of date. Maybe the place to start, as Jack suggested, is with a new story regarding the place of guns that starts with responsibility rather than rights. Randy "Whatever the problem, community is the answer. There is no power greater than a community discovering what it cares about." Margaret Wheatley From: William Salmon <wsalmon@cox.net> To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 3:53 PM Subject: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Start the conversation JUST A PASSING THOUGHT:RE: Gun culture-- Where does it--or its antithesis--show up on the Social Process triangles? Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Early" <lees.mail@comcast.net> To: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; "OE: Dialogue Dialogue" <OE@topica.com> Cc: "ICA Dialogue Dialogue" <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 3:27 PM Subject: [Oe List ...] Start the conversation
It is brainstorm time. What can we do to change the "gun culture" of our nation?
Nationally, state wide, locally and personally.
The social act of repentance might be a good place to start:
1. Become aware of injustice 2. Turn your back on it 3. Abolish within yourself 4. Lead society
BUT, this is a brainstorm. If the above is a helpful start, great. If not, feel free to come up with a different framework or, just share some ideas.
The conversation needs to happen now.
Lee
Lee Early 19230 Forest Park Dr. NE, A102 Lake Forest Park, WA 98155
Home: (206) 922-3182 Lee's mobile: (425) 212-7997
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com/ Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2634/5959 - Release Date: 12/14/12
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2634/5959 - Release Date: 12/14/12
Here's the stupid goal: change the 2nd amendment. The nuances would have to be in the straegy and tactics of HOW. Thanks Lee, for starting a much needed conversation. Rod -----Original Message----- From: Lee Early Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 1:27 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community ; OE: Dialogue Dialogue Cc: ICA Dialogue Dialogue Subject: [Oe List ...] Start the conversation It is brainstorm time. What can we do to change the "gun culture" of our nation? Nationally, state wide, locally and personally. The social act of repentance might be a good place to start: 1. Become aware of injustice 2. Turn your back on it 3. Abolish within yourself 4. Lead society BUT, this is a brainstorm. If the above is a helpful start, great. If not, feel free to come up with a different framework or, just share some ideas. The conversation needs to happen now. Lee Lee Early 19230 Forest Park Dr. NE, A102 Lake Forest Park, WA 98155 Home: (206) 922-3182 Lee's mobile: (425) 212-7997 _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
I was just barely aware of the shooting all day...avoiding the news that I knew I didn't want to hear...then I listened to NPR's somber report on the Connecticut tragedy while driving home this evening...kind of holding my breath as the scraps of information drifted by, sort of numb since we just went through the Theater shooting here in Aurora...and not so long ago Columbine...not really wanting to hear the news one more time...when I got inside the house the tears began with a rush and it seemed like they wouldn't end anytime soon...at last they eased into weariness and Eunice brought me a cup of tea...I sat by our fire place and Christmas tree for a long time...holding my granddaughters big stuffed bear...how many of these tragedies must we endure...even from afar off they are way too close...I thought of the presents perhaps already under trees in the families homes that will not generate the smiles they were destined to evoke...and how the parents will cope with the empty chairs...Oh thou Mysterious Giver of Life how can you wrench our hearts with such sudden loss? How can we take this madness that we have created for ourselves? What now must we do to care for the grief stricken families...what change must we fight for in our own hearts, our family attitudes, our community patterns and our laws? Help us to take this deep brokenness into ourselves and feed our resolve for care and for justice...I pray once again for the Peace of Christmas to become real and tough and present in my heart and in yours as we await the gift of new life. God help us all. Surly together we can turn this madness around. Sherwood at home in Centennial. -----Original Message----- From: oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Lee Early Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 2:27 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community; OE: Dialogue Dialogue Cc: ICA Dialogue Dialogue Subject: [Oe List ...] Start the conversation It is brainstorm time. What can we do to change the "gun culture" of our nation? Nationally, state wide, locally and personally. The social act of repentance might be a good place to start: 1. Become aware of injustice 2. Turn your back on it 3. Abolish within yourself 4. Lead society BUT, this is a brainstorm. If the above is a helpful start, great. If not, feel free to come up with a different framework or, just share some ideas. The conversation needs to happen now. Lee Lee Early 19230 Forest Park Dr. NE, A102 Lake Forest Park, WA 98155 Home: (206) 922-3182 Lee's mobile: (425) 212-7997 _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Sherwood here - I forward this message on behalf of Penny McDaniel, a ToP Trainer here in Denver. She speaks from the heart as should we all - let the conversation continue... Penny McDaniel writes: Please help me and help this country. I am outraged at the tragedy in Connecticut today. We have seen too many innocent people die at the hands of crazy people who have gone off the deep end. It needs to stop! We have been afraid to deal with the gun control issue, but now is the time. Twenty innocent children killed, we were unable to protect them, and all parents need to raise their voices and say it's time to stop. We must stop this insanity and we must tell President Obama and all politicians who have been afraid to go up against the strong and powerful gun lobby, gun control is our right, the right of every innocent person who has been shot down by someone with a gun. Send your message to President Obama and all of your politicians, join me in finally putting pressure on them to stop the insanity. Gun Control is Our Right!! Here is a message I sent to President Obama today: Here is the link to the site where you can email him http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/submit-questions-and-comments Dear President Obama, The tragedy that happened today in Connecticut of 20 children plus adults is beyond belief. We have been so afraid to address gun control in this country because the gun lobby is so strong and powerful but it is time. Gun rights activists claim we have a right to carry guns and that guns don't kill, people kill. We were never given the right to kill innocent children and people and we cannot control every crazy person out there that might get mad and take a gun and shoot others but we can control the easy access to guns. It is now time to take up this issue and for every sane person to support you in passing reasonable and effective gun control. Please let me know what I can do to help and please do not let this go any further. Penny McDaniel Sincerely, Penny McDaniel -----Original Message----- From: oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Lee Early Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 2:27 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community; OE: Dialogue Dialogue Cc: ICA Dialogue Dialogue Subject: [Oe List ...] Start the conversation It is brainstorm time. What can we do to change the "gun culture" of our nation? Nationally, state wide, locally and personally. The social act of repentance might be a good place to start: 1. Become aware of injustice 2. Turn your back on it 3. Abolish within yourself 4. Lead society BUT, this is a brainstorm. If the above is a helpful start, great. If not, feel free to come up with a different framework or, just share some ideas. The conversation needs to happen now. Lee Lee Early 19230 Forest Park Dr. NE, A102 Lake Forest Park, WA 98155 Home: (206) 922-3182 Lee's mobile: (425) 212-7997 _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
I think all the comments on this stream are good. Keeping the campaign going (it has about a 90 day lifespan) has always been the main contradiction, also practical ways to have "gun control" which is read by the opposition as gun elimination (or government control) brings a brick wall. Getting rid of hiding behind the Constitution would be a windfall, but messing with the Constitution is a big mess. The second part of my thought is that while a social justice issue, its main component is economic (which evokes emotion, patriotism, etc.). The U.S. is the largest manufacturer and distributor of weapons in the world. Gun Control threatens not just a "way of life," a governing possibility, but an industry, much like fossil fuel and climate change. There are gun shops, shooting ranges, gun clubs, gun shows, para-military groups that go out on the weekend for maneuvers and shooting guns let alone hunters, plus Wal Mart and investors, speculators, internet businesses, to name a few. That's a part of what's being taken on. Since guns now have serial numbers and are sort of traceable to manufacturers and sellers, except when you file off the number, why not have gun owners bear the expense of the data base, through an annual fee and a check to see if it's properly at the same address, etc., that's what they ask me every year when I get my auto license, just don't call it registration of fire arms, something to do with maintenance of the data base. Push for laws that make states equally responsible for the data base. (You can bet we all are somehow paying for that data base and its use by police departments). It could be another source of revenue for the States. Push for liability insurance for all firearms. If the insurance industry can get its teeth into this, they could produce quite a battle with the arms industry, though I imagine it would be a mixed affair, but more money for the vendors and the industry could provide some incentives. Imagine the amount you'd pay to register your AK47. Kathleen Jones published an article on steps you have to go through to own a gun in Japan on her FaceBook page, certainly worth a read. Having to go though a check for mental illness as in Japan would be a real step forward. Just think of the business mental health professionals could have, and of course government regulators to make sure it was done correctly. You would be extending Capitalism and free enterprise (just imagine the ad revenue on TV). What about eye exams and hearing tests, to make sure you see what you're shooting at, and the sounds in the next room are really a burglar and not your spouse making an early cup of coffee. Some of this may sound humorous, but if there is enough in the mix some of it is bound to take off, either as a compromise or just because some politician thinks he/she can ride it to the next election, and maybe some entrepreneur will see a way to become the next billionaire. And then it's all about the American way. To do some of this we'll need to support those movements and organizations that are pushing for reform. George Holcombe 14900 Yellowleaf Tr. Austin, TX 78728 Mobile 512/252-2756 geowanda@earthlink.net Hope appeareth, but it is not your Hope—you do not have anything to do with it. It just appeareth. It comes as a stranger, as an alien—it just appeareth! You do not even know why you hope. How in the world could you hope when there is absolutely nothing to justify any hope? ~Joseph W. Mathews On Dec 14, 2012, at 3:27 PM, Lee Early <lees.mail@comcast.net> wrote:
It is brainstorm time. What can we do to change the "gun culture" of our nation?
Nationally, state wide, locally and personally.
The social act of repentance might be a good place to start:
1. Become aware of injustice 2. Turn your back on it 3. Abolish within yourself 4. Lead society
BUT, this is a brainstorm. If the above is a helpful start, great. If not, feel free to come up with a different framework or, just share some ideas.
The conversation needs to happen now.
Lee
Lee Early 19230 Forest Park Dr. NE, A102 Lake Forest Park, WA 98155
Home: (206) 922-3182 Lee's mobile: (425) 212-7997
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
George, Thank You! These are some helpful directions. Sounds like a long process, but it is a great direction . Charles On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 8:30 AM, George Holcombe <geowanda@earthlink.net>wrote:
I think all the comments on this stream are good. Keeping the campaign going (it has about a 90 day lifespan) has always been the main contradiction, also practical ways to have "gun control" which is read by the opposition as gun elimination (or government control) brings a brick wall. Getting rid of hiding behind the Constitution would be a windfall, but messing with the Constitution is a big mess.
The second part of my thought is that while a social justice issue, its main component is economic (which evokes emotion, patriotism, etc.). The U.S. is the largest manufacturer and distributor of weapons in the world. Gun Control threatens not just a "way of life," a governing possibility, but an industry, much like fossil fuel and climate change. There are gun shops, shooting ranges, gun clubs, gun shows, para-military groups that go out on the weekend for maneuvers and shooting guns let alone hunters, plus Wal Mart and investors, speculators, internet businesses, to name a few. That's a part of what's being taken on.
Since guns now have serial numbers and are sort of traceable to manufacturers and sellers, except when you file off the number, why not have gun owners bear the expense of the data base, through an annual fee and a check to see if it's properly at the same address, etc., that's what they ask me every year when I get my auto license, just don't call it registration of fire arms, something to do with maintenance of the data base. Push for laws that make states equally responsible for the data base. (You can bet we all are somehow paying for that data base and its use by police departments). It could be another source of revenue for the States.
Push for liability insurance for all firearms. If the insurance industry can get its teeth into this, they could produce quite a battle with the arms industry, though I imagine it would be a mixed affair, but more money for the vendors and the industry could provide some incentives. Imagine the amount you'd pay to register your AK47.
Kathleen Jones published an article on steps you have to go through to own a gun in Japan on her FaceBook page, certainly worth a read. Having to go though a check for mental illness as in Japan would be a real step forward. Just think of the business mental health professionals could have, and of course government regulators to make sure it was done correctly. You would be extending Capitalism and free enterprise (just imagine the ad revenue on TV). What about eye exams and hearing tests, to make sure you see what you're shooting at, and the sounds in the next room are really a burglar and not your spouse making an early cup of coffee.
Some of this may sound humorous, but if there is enough in the mix some of it is bound to take off, either as a compromise or just because some politician thinks he/she can ride it to the next election, and maybe some entrepreneur will see a way to become the next billionaire. And then it's all about the American way.
To do some of this we'll need to support those movements and organizations that are pushing for reform.
George Holcombe 14900 Yellowleaf Tr. Austin, TX 78728 Mobile 512/252-2756 geowanda@earthlink.net
Hope appeareth, but it is not your Hope—you do not have anything to do with it. It just appeareth. It comes as a stranger, as an alien—it just appeareth! You do not even know why you hope. How in the world could you hope when there is absolutely nothing to justify any hope? ~Joseph W. Mathews
On Dec 14, 2012, at 3:27 PM, Lee Early <lees.mail@comcast.net> wrote:
It is brainstorm time. What can we do to change the "gun culture" of our nation?
Nationally, state wide, locally and personally.
The social act of repentance might be a good place to start:
1. Become aware of injustice 2. Turn your back on it 3. Abolish within yourself 4. Lead society
BUT, this is a brainstorm. If the above is a helpful start, great. If not, feel free to come up with a different framework or, just share some ideas.
The conversation needs to happen now.
Lee
Lee Early 19230 Forest Park Dr. NE, A102 Lake Forest Park, WA 98155
Home: (206) 922-3182 Lee's mobile: (425) 212-7997
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Yes, thank you, George. Last night Shields and Brooks articulated the reluctance of anyone to even start this conversation. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec12/politicalwrap_12-14.html --Diann From: Charles Hahn <cfhahn30@gmail.com<mailto:cfhahn30@gmail.com>> Reply-To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> Date: Saturday, December 15, 2012 10:11 AM To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Start the conversation George, Thank You! These are some helpful directions. Sounds like a long process, but it is a great direction . Charles On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 8:30 AM, George Holcombe <geowanda@earthlink.net<mailto:geowanda@earthlink.net>> wrote: I think all the comments on this stream are good. Keeping the campaign going (it has about a 90 day lifespan) has always been the main contradiction, also practical ways to have "gun control" which is read by the opposition as gun elimination (or government control) brings a brick wall. Getting rid of hiding behind the Constitution would be a windfall, but messing with the Constitution is a big mess. The second part of my thought is that while a social justice issue, its main component is economic (which evokes emotion, patriotism, etc.). The U.S. is the largest manufacturer and distributor of weapons in the world. Gun Control threatens not just a "way of life," a governing possibility, but an industry, much like fossil fuel and climate change. There are gun shops, shooting ranges, gun clubs, gun shows, para-military groups that go out on the weekend for maneuvers and shooting guns let alone hunters, plus Wal Mart and investors, speculators, internet businesses, to name a few. That's a part of what's being taken on. Since guns now have serial numbers and are sort of traceable to manufacturers and sellers, except when you file off the number, why not have gun owners bear the expense of the data base, through an annual fee and a check to see if it's properly at the same address, etc., that's what they ask me every year when I get my auto license, just don't call it registration of fire arms, something to do with maintenance of the data base. Push for laws that make states equally responsible for the data base. (You can bet we all are somehow paying for that data base and its use by police departments). It could be another source of revenue for the States. Push for liability insurance for all firearms. If the insurance industry can get its teeth into this, they could produce quite a battle with the arms industry, though I imagine it would be a mixed affair, but more money for the vendors and the industry could provide some incentives. Imagine the amount you'd pay to register your AK47. Kathleen Jones published an article on steps you have to go through to own a gun in Japan on her FaceBook page, certainly worth a read. Having to go though a check for mental illness as in Japan would be a real step forward. Just think of the business mental health professionals could have, and of course government regulators to make sure it was done correctly. You would be extending Capitalism and free enterprise (just imagine the ad revenue on TV). What about eye exams and hearing tests, to make sure you see what you're shooting at, and the sounds in the next room are really a burglar and not your spouse making an early cup of coffee. Some of this may sound humorous, but if there is enough in the mix some of it is bound to take off, either as a compromise or just because some politician thinks he/she can ride it to the next election, and maybe some entrepreneur will see a way to become the next billionaire. And then it's all about the American way. To do some of this we'll need to support those movements and organizations that are pushing for reform. George Holcombe 14900 Yellowleaf Tr. Austin, TX 78728 Mobile 512/252-2756<tel:512%2F252-2756> geowanda@earthlink.net<mailto:geowanda@earthlink.net> Hope appeareth, but it is not your Hope—you do not have anything to do with it. It just appeareth. It comes as a stranger, as an alien—it just appeareth! You do not even know why you hope. How in the world could you hope when there is absolutely nothing to justify any hope? ~Joseph W. Mathews On Dec 14, 2012, at 3:27 PM, Lee Early <lees.mail@comcast.net<mailto:lees.mail@comcast.net>> wrote:
It is brainstorm time. What can we do to change the "gun culture" of our nation?
Nationally, state wide, locally and personally.
The social act of repentance might be a good place to start:
1. Become aware of injustice 2. Turn your back on it 3. Abolish within yourself 4. Lead society
BUT, this is a brainstorm. If the above is a helpful start, great. If not, feel free to come up with a different framework or, just share some ideas.
The conversation needs to happen now.
Lee
Lee Early 19230 Forest Park Dr. NE, A102 Lake Forest Park, WA 98155
Home: (206) 922-3182<tel:%28206%29%20922-3182> Lee's mobile: (425) 212-7997<tel:%28425%29%20212-7997>
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
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participants (9)
-
Charles Hahn -
George Holcombe -
Jack Gilles -
Lee Early -
McCabe, Diann A -
R Williams -
Rod Rippel -
Sherwood Shankland -
William Salmon