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Re: [Oe List ...] Edith (Ellery) Adele McKinley Elizondo
by Bill Schlesinger 20 Sep '12

20 Sep '12

Tony and Ellery greeted me warmly in Chicago. Their warmth, generosity, kindness and humor were a large part of my sense of the humanity of our community. Grace and peace - Bill Schlesinger Project Vida 3607 Rivera Avenue El Paso, TX 79905 (915) 533-7057 x 207 (915) 503-1014 FAX pvida(a)whc.net www.projectvidaelpaso.org -----Original Message----- On 2012-09-20, at 9:25 AM, jonzondo(a)juno.com wrote: I celebrate the completed Life and Death of my mother Edith Adele McKinley Elizondo. She took her last breath this morning. As many of you may know, she was dancing with Alzheimer's for the last 4 years or more. If you are interested, a Memorial is in the works soon to be held in The Woodlands, TX. Contact me for details. Thank you for all your support and Love. I'm am surrounded and Grateful. Jon Mark Elizondo We are all connected. ____________________________________________________________ Fast, Secure, NetZero 4G Mobile Broadband. Try it. http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=NZINTISP0512T4GOUT2 _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net

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Re: [Oe List ...] free speech, Romney and tenderness
by LAURELCG＠aol.com 20 Sep '12

20 Sep '12

Thank you so much for this, Mary, and for standing for Love. Jann In a message dated 9/20/2012 7:05:02 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, mhampton(a)att.net writes: Dear John, George, Herman, Susan and all, First, George thank you for the meditation. I have been reading with interest these two threads: one about the sensibilities and practical safety in avoiding angering people in the larger world, the second about how we listen to each other when our values do not match. Tenderness in my subject line is not some sentimental value of being nice to each other. It's more like the RS1 illustration of feeling everything (every perspective) through burned raw nerve endings. Quakers use it in talking about how you hold Business Meeting where the objective is "to descern God's will." There is a great book by a Jesuit who came to observe and participate called Beyond Consensus. Recognizing you are in a corporate endeavor to do more than what humanly possible, you must make extreme allowances for the others doing the process. You aim to treat each other tenderly. Of course, the world does not use this standard, but one can hope the People of God could. It is the gift and duty of Those Who Care to be sensitive when others cannot. Indeed, its how you know who they/we are. Grace and Peace, Love, LIGHT, mary ____________________________________ From: George Holcombe <geowanda1(a)me.com> To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Thu, September 20, 2012 5:09:56 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] A good reflection on Romney Part of my early morning meditation is coming across some of the writers, spiritual guides, etc. and I got Richard Rohrs this morning and thought about us. " THE REIGN OF GOD There are always two worlds. The world as it operates is largely about power; the world as it should be, or “the Reign of God,” is always about love. How can you live in both worlds at the same time? As you allow yourself to loosen your grip on the first, you will gradually see the inadequacy and weakness of power as domination or control. You will then tighten your grip around the second, which is the ever purer motivation of love for others instead of yourself. Any exercise of power apart from love leads to brutality and evil; but love that does not lead people to a whole new kind of power is mere sentimentality and emotion. I must admit, it is rare to find people who hold both together in perfect balance—who have found their inner divine power and use it for others. Prayer: Your will be done. George Holcombe 14900 Yellowleaf Tr. Austin, TX 78728 Mobile 512/252-2756 _geowanda1(a)me.com_ (mailto:geowanda1@me.com) Hope appeareth, but it is not your Hope—you do not have anything to do with it. It just appeareth. It comes as a stranger, as an alien—it just appeareth! You do not even know why you hope. How in the world could you hope when there is absolutely nothing to justify any hope? ~Joseph W. Mathews _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net

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Re: [Oe List ...] Edith (Ellery) Adele McKinley Elizondo
by LAURELCG＠aol.com 20 Sep '12

20 Sep '12

Shelley said it so well. It was a privilege to live with your family for a year in San Francisco. Jon, I'd like to know about the memorial. Love and blessings. Jann McGuire In a message dated 9/20/2012 6:31:25 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, shelley.l.hahn(a)gmail.com writes: Dear Jon, My heart goes out to you, your father and Debra, as you celebrate your mother's amazing life! I celebrate with you ... and I mourn with you. I am honored to have known your mother. Her legacy lives on in may ways--the greatest of which is the two amazing children she brought into the universe! With love, Shelley

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In Memory of Ellery
by Lynda Cock 20 Sep '12

20 Sep '12

Dear Jon, Debra and Tony, John and I send our care to you in this sacred time. I remember Ellery from a time we shared in the Permeation Guild (or something like that). She would come home from a Day I job in the Loop and our carload would come in from work in Oakbrook. Shortly after that Day II work would begin. Her editing work and typing of documents is now archived and getting ready to share with a new generation. I am grateful for the opportunity to have worked with her in some of those typing pools. I can hear her deep laughter as I write this. How appropriate that you should remark about her "dancing through four years of Alzheimers." That seems so like her. We are grateful for her life shared in this community. Lynda and John Cock

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9/20/12, Spong: "Think Different–Accept Uncertainty" Part XVII: The Story of the Crucifixion, Part Two
by Ellie Stock 20 Sep '12

20 Sep '12

HOMEPAGE MY PROFILE ESSAY ARCHIVE MESSAGE BOARDS CALENDAR "Think Different–Accept Uncertainty" Part XVII: The Story of the Crucifixion, Part Two It is certainly a fact of history that a man named Jesus of Nazareth was crucified by the Romans somewhere around the year 30 CE. This crucifixion came during the procuratorship of a Roman official named Pontius Pilate, who was in his Judean post according to Roman records between the years 26 and 36 CE. What role the Jewish religious authorities played in this crucifixion is very unclear. At the very least we know that, as a conquered people, Jews did not have the power to execute. The crucifixion was clearly a Roman act done in the Roman manner of execution. The Romans, not the Jews, were responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus. The crime for which he was put to death was both religious (blasphemy) and political (sedition). The real question is: how many of the familiar details that surround his crucifixion were also literal events that actually happened and were recorded by eyewitnesses? The answer is probably very few! The only records we have are in the New Testament and the relevant books were written 40-70 years after the event they purport to describe. They were also written in a language (Greek) that neither Jesus nor any of his disciples spoke, read or wrote. The gospels were written to create faith and to interpret the Jesus experience, not to record what actually happened. Yet over the years of Christian history these narratives have been mistakenly treated as history. Today I will try to look at the story of the crucifixion in a very different way. First, we need to be aware that the story of a traitor named Judas Iscariot is highly suspect. The name Judas did not appear in any written Christian materials until the 8th decade of the Christian era and when it did appear, the title “Iscariot,” which means “political assassin,” was already attached to it. Paul, writing between 51 and 64 CE, had clearly never heard the story of a traitor being one of the twelve. When Paul suggests that the Risen Christ was seen by “the twelve” on the third day after the crucifixion, it is clear that Judas is still among them (I Cor. 1:1-6). When we analyze the other details that have been written into the biblical biography of Judas we discover that every one of them is based on a traitor story in the Old Testament. Judas thus appears to be a literary composite of all the known traitors in Jewish history. History, he is not! When we turn to the first biblical narrative of the crucifixion that is in Mark, we discover that it is made up of material developed to be used liturgically during a 24-hour vigil service of worship to mark the anniversary of Jesus’ death, that is, it is designed for use on Good Friday. This liturgical pattern clearly developed very early, since it is reflected in Mark who wrote about two generations after the crucifixion. In Mark’s narrative we can see the vigil’s outline of eight three-hour segments: The first segment begins with the words, “When it was evening” (Mark 14:17), which means that it began at sundown or about 6:00 p.m. Jesus, we are told, gathers with his disciples for the Passover meal. We know that the Passover observance included games and frivolity in addition to the meal and that it also offered the opportunity for the patriarch of the family to tell the story of the flight to freedom of the Jews from Egypt to the gathered family members. We also know that it normally lasted about three hours and concluded with the singing of a hymn. In Mark’s story at the meal’s end, the disciples sing a hymn and go out into the night. It is thus now 9:00 p.m. They went immediately to a place known as the Garden of Gethsemane where Mark tells us that Peter, James and John could not watch with Jesus for one hour, two hours or three hours without falling asleep. Worshipers at this liturgy would, at this time, be having the same problem. Jesus then emerges from the garden. It is obviously now 12:00 midnight. The kiss of the traitor is made by Mark to occur at the stroke of midnight, so the darkest deed in human history is said to have been performed at the darkest hour of the night. Mark has this act of betrayal continue before the symbols of Jewish authority, the high priests and leaders of the Sanhedrin. The rejection of Jesus was interpreted by Mark to have been a corporate act of the whole nation. That is reflected in the fact that Mark has given the name of the nation to the traitor, since Judas is simply the Greek spelling of Judah. The full account of the betrayal act thus takes three hours in this liturgy, so it is now 3:00 a.m. The watch of the night that begins at 3:00 a.m. and lasts until 6:00 a.m. was known as “cockcrow.” Into that slot of time, Mark has written the story of Peter’s threefold denial, one act of denial for each hour until the cock crows to announce the arrival of the morning. Right on cue, Mark says, “When morning came” or at about 6:00 a.m., Jesus was taken to Pilate. There before the representative of the Roman Empire, we have a description of the presumed interrogation that supposedly led to his condemnation. Included is an account of flogging, mocking, a purple robe, a crown of thorns and the introduction of one named Barabbas, all of which are described in detail. Another three hours in the vigil is over so it is now 9:00 a.m. Mark announces that fact, again right on cue, by saying that they crucified him at the third hour or at 9:00 a.m. and Mark describes that scene with details that, as we mentioned earlier in this series, have been taken out of Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53. The details from Psalm 22 include the hostile crowd telling him to come down from the cross if he is what he clams to be; the dividing of his clothes and the “casting of lots” for his tunic; while the details from Isaiah 53 include the two thieves, one on each side of him and his silence before his accuser, both of which are said to fulfill the words of Isaiah 53, where it is written that the “servant” would be “numbered among the transgressors” and would remain silent in the face of his enemies. Then, at the sixth hour, or after three hours on the cross, Mark tells us that “darkness covered the whole earth” to announce the next segment of the vigil. That means it was now 12:00 noon. This is not, obviously, literal darkness. If one believed, however, as Mark and those who were observing this twenty-four hour vigil did, that Jesus was “the light of the world,” his death would plunge the world into total darkness. Mark tells us that this darkness lasted while his life hung in the balance from the sixth until the ninth hour. That is from 12 noon to 3:00 p.m., at which time Mark has Jesus utter the cry of dereliction, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” which is the first verse of Psalm 22 and then Mark says: he bowed his head in death. It is now 3:00 p.m. In order to complete the 24 hour vigil, from 3:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m. Mark tells the story of Jesus burial in a tomb provided by Joseph of Arimathea, a ruler of the Jews and thus a rich man. Isaiah 53 had said that his servant figure would be “with a rich man in his death.” Mark gives narrative form to that word in developing the Joseph story. Joseph was an important patriarchal ancestor to the people of the Northern kingdom, the non Judah citizens, so Mark uses that knowledge to portray Jesus as bringing together the Jewish nation in his death. None of this is history, it is interpretive liturgy written to be acted out in observance of the death of Jesus. Mark also in this narrative tells us the story of Barabbas, a name that literally means son (bar) of God (Abba). So Barabbas is a second “son of God” in the passion narrative. In that narrative, the son of God, named Barabbas, is set free. The other son of God, Jesus, is crucified. People not familiar with Jewish patterns of worship need to know that in the liturgy of Yom Kippur, there are two animals that are brought to the high priest. One, normally a lamb, is sacrificed as an offering for the sins of the people; the other, normally a goat, is set free to bear the sins of the people away. The first creature is called the “Lamb of God” and represents the people’s yearning to come into a sense of oneness with God. The second is called the “scapegoat” and on it the sins of the people are symbolically carried away, leaving them at one with God. By introducing Barabbas into the passion narrative, Mark is interpreting the crucifixion through the lens of Yom Kippur. Those unfamiliar with Jewish worship will never understand Mark’s style of writing or see that he never intended his narrative to be thought of as literal history. Many people are so clearly trapped inside the mindset of believing that the gospels must be read literally and that their account of Jesus is biography that they feel there can be no other way to read them. So when their literal understandings are challenged, they seem to believe there is nothing left. The gospel writers, however, were surely aware that they were using Jewish words and Jewish images that were so familiar to their original audiences that there would be no chance they would misunderstand their intentions and treat their narratives literally. Instead they wrote to interpret the profound and moving God experience that they believed they had encountered in the person of Jesus. It was a transformative, eye-opening, consciousness-raising, life expanding experience. It was real, indeed more real than anything they had ever known before, but it was also beyond the power of human words, time bound as they are, to capture. When we, today, peel away these interpretive layers, we discover, not that the story has been destroyed, but that the reality is more than ever we imagined. Everything that matters is left and we are now pointed beyond the explanations of antiquity and into the wordless wonder of the presence of God. When the Christian movement reached the time of the writing of the Fourth Gospel (95-100) this is so deeply a part of the Christian understanding that this work presents us with the least literal and at the same time the most profound portrait of Jesus in the entire New Testament. Do not fear the death of literalism. Its death opens the door to the meaning of Jesus that literal words actually block and impede. “Think Different–Accept Uncertainty” is the doorway into a new Christianity in a new world. ~John Shelby Spong Read the essay online here. This week in place of the question and response feature of this column I would like to run, with her permission, a brief statement, written by Harvard Professor of World Religions, Dr. Diana Eck. This piece, first published in the Dallas Morning News, was written in the light of the murderous attack on the Sikh Temple in Milwaukee this past summer. It applies even today, however, in the light of the scandalously hostile motion picture, produced by self-defined Christians, depicting the prophet Mohammed in very derogatory ways, now being blamed for a series of anti-American riots in Islamic countries. The need for religious people to be sensitive to and appreciative of the faith traditions of the world different from their own is an essential ingredient in the establishment of peace. Much religious rhetoric in all traditions, claiming that one religious system has a monopoly on the truth and the reality of God works against that goal and not infrequently gives justification to those on the religious fringes to engage in murderous behavior. Diana Eck is a close friend of mine, an able and recognized scholar and a practicing Christian. I commend her words to you. ~John Shelby Spong In Sikhs’ view, there is no stranger by Diana Eck If the assailant at the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin had been simply a curious neighbor or a local visitor, he would have been warmly welcomed for morning tea and snacks as the community assembled for worship. Later on, he would have been served a sumptuous lunch, with the whole congregation seated together — rice, vegetarian curries and lentils ladled out in generous portions. He would have discovered a religious community so confident and expansive in its hospitality that it would embrace a complete stranger. As director of the Pluralism Project, I have studied the changing face of American religion for 20 years. No religious community I have ever encountered demonstrates the meaning of hospitality as abundantly as the Sikhs. I have visited Sikh temples (called gurdwaras) from coast to coast. In addition to a spacious prayer hall where the congregation sings the devotional hymns of the Sikh scriptures, each gurdwara is equipped with a huge, almost industrial-size kitchen to prepare food for anyone and everyone who comes — community members and strangers alike. I have enjoyed both the hymns and the hospitality dozens of times at gurdwaras in Boston, often with a class of students in tow. I ask, "May I come with my students?" No problem, bring all 20 or 30, and stay for lunch, is always the response. In India, the signature community meal, called a langar, is a daily affair, while in the U.S. this common meal takes place mostly on Sundays when the community gathers. Every Sunday, volunteers cook a hearty vegetarian lunch for, say, 300 or 400 people. Families sign up to cook to honor special occasions — a family graduation or anniversary. Men, women and children learn to manage the huge kettles, mixers and stainless steel bowls and to move deftly through row upon row of congregants seated on the floor inthe dining hall, ladling out the food. This hospitality is not just a gesture; it is foundational to the Sikh faith. Eating together is what knits the Sikh community together and breaks down the barriers that divide the wider human community. In caste-conscious India of the 15th century, when the teacher Guru Nanak first gathered what became the Sikh community, the common meal was an egalitarian human revolution. In plain ritual language it spelled out the fact that among Sikhs there would be no discrimination of high caste or low, no male or female, no Muslim or Hindu, no Sikh or non-Sikh. We are just people, equal in the eyes of the one God. Eating together symbolizes a Sikh’s personal rejection of discrimination and prejudice. The meal is simple vegetarian fare, not because all Sikhs are vegetarian, but because this is the food that can be shared most widely, especially across religious lines. Sikhs remind us that eating together is one of the important liturgies of the human community, for people of every faith and none. Most Americans still know little of the Sikh Americans whose history in the United States, dating to the early 20th century, is now firmly part of our common history. While we catch up on our basic education, however, it is important to know that Sikhs share three distinctly and deeply American values — the importance of hard work, a commitment to human equality, and the practice of neighborly hospitality. Not surprisingly, at the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin in Oak Creek last Sunday, the Sikhs offered the foodthey had prepared to the hundreds of emergency workers, police officers and staff who surrounded the temple. The dignity and generosity of the Sikh community in the wake of this violence remind us just how much we have to learn from these neighbors. May we all share more common meals together as we discover what “we the people” truly means. Diana L. Eck is professor of Comparative Religion and Indian Studies at Harvard University and director of the Pluralism Project. She may be contacted at dianaeck(a)fas.harvard.edu. Announcements Any questions or concerns, please contact us at support(a)johnshelbyspong.com or 503-236-3545. Copyright © 2012 ProgressiveChristianity.org, All rights reserved. You are receiving this email because you have a membership at our website. Our mailing address is: ProgressiveChristianity.org 4916 Pt Fosdick Dr, NW #148 Gig Harbor, WA 98335 Add us to your address book

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Re: [Oe List ...] A good reflection on Romney
by jonzondo＠juno.com 19 Sep '12

19 Sep '12

I enjoyed the two articles by Mr. Sowell. He raises points which need to be raised. I intend to bring these articles and points to a group of open minded thinkers and then I will see where that discussion leads. One thing I did notice is that in these articles Mr. Sowell does not mention much of "what he thinks needs to be done." We don't live in the same world that he mentions in both articles. the 1920's and 30's and 40's are gone. The world is even different from the Reagan years. What I know is that my parents have almost none of their savings left, they both need living assistance, and they gave their lives to something they believed in AND in the world I wish to live in and create, we take care of our elders and our children. The United States has been doing a poor job of this, compared to what we could be doing, for a very long time now... pretty much my entire life. We can do better, and I don't care what party you are from or support... standard of Living for elders and children is important. I will watch the video tomorrow perhaps. Jon Mark Elizondo ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Susan Fertig" <susan(a)gmdtech.com> To: "'Order Ecumenical Community'" <oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] A good reflection on Romney Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 23:28:37 -0400 A couple of interesting articles that may be useful to the discussion.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2012/09/11/an_economic_plan http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2012/09/12/depending_on_depende… I have a serious intellectual crush on Thomas Sowell, and one on Congressman Allen West too. The video below will probably be offensive to many on this listserv, fair warning. http://youtu.be/2CVK4c2qu3M Here's a link with better quality and an article about it but the captioning in the one above is helpful too. http://wwwwnd.com/2011/02/266849/ Susan From: oe-bounces(a)lists.wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Herman Greene Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 8:02 PM To: 'Order Ecumenical Community' Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] A good reflection on Romney We have had these “tiffs” before and, if I remember correctly, some also involved Susan. We survived and maybe we learned something. We should always show respect for one another, but I wouldn’t suggest any “rule change” yet. From my standpoint, there’s nothing wrong with lively exchanges unless they get chronically out of hand. Herman From: oe-bounces(a)lists.wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of David M Dunn Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 7:50 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] A good reflection on Romney On Sep 18, 2012, at 4:56 PM, "Herman Greene" <hfgreene(a)mindspring.com> wrote: I’m sorry, I want to distance myself from this message. What Susan said to me didn’t bother me. I think I agree with others that this is not the place to carry on a political debate, but it is a place to dialogue. I would be happy to hear Susan’s thoughts if she wants to share them. This passionate little maelstrom that we just fell into is one of the reasons that the 'listserv' technology doesn't serve us as well as the quality of our dialogue requires. The kind of careful and thoughtful clarification of perspectives and search for one another's truth requires something closer to face to face communication (like an online meeting) or at the least, an online shared dialogue space (like a 'wiki' that provides for a stream of comments) where we can see contributions appear in real time and all of the preceding contributions. (Facebook comments are the example of the running stream, but not the example of a safe, private space for collegial dialogue.) It would be fascinating and illuminating to see of we could discover the images of fact and value (recalling Boulding) that lie behind the different perceptions expressed here about the meaning of this moment in history. David David Dunn 740 S Alton Way 9B Denver, CO 80247 -- dmdunn1(a)gmail.com 720-314-5991 ____________________________________________________________ Woman is 57 But Looks 27 Mom publishes simple facelift trick that angered doctors... http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/50594fd1231c64fd03436st03vuc

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Re: [Oe List ...] A good reflection on Romney
by David Walters 18 Sep '12

18 Sep '12

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The next part of the Romney video
by Herman Greene 18 Sep '12

18 Sep '12

<http://politicalwire.com/archives/2012/09/18/romney_says_peace_not_possible _in_the_middle_east.html> Romney Says Peace Not Possible in the Middle East <http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/romney-secret-video-israeli-pal estinian-middle-east-peace> Mother Jones drops another segment of the <http://politicalwire.com/archives/2012/09/18/romney_says_peace_not_possible _in_the_middle_east.html> hidden camera video shot at a Mitt Romney fundraiser in May which shows the GOP presidential candidate saying he believes peace in the Middle East is not possible and a Palestinian state is not feasible. Said Romney: "I'm torn by two perspectives in this regard. One is the one which I've had for some time, which is that the Palestinians have no interest whatsoever in establishing peace, and that the pathway to peace is almost unthinkable to accomplish... All right, we have a potentially volatile situation but we sort of live with it, and we kick the ball down the field and hope that ultimately, somehow, something will happen and resolve it..." "On the other hand, I got a call from a former secretary of state. I won't mention which one it was, but this individual said to me, you know, I think there's a prospect for a settlement between the Palestinians and the Israelis after the Palestinian elections. I said, 'Really?' And, you know, his answer was, 'Yes, I think there's some prospect.' And I didn't delve into it." He added: "The idea of pushing on the Israelis to give something up to get the Palestinians to act is the worst idea in the world." _____________________________________________ Herman Greene 2516 Winningham Drive Chapel Hill, NC 27516 919-929-4116 (h) 919-624-0579 (c) 919-942-4358 (f) Skype: hgreene-nc hfgreene(a)mindspring.com

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Re: [Oe List ...] A good reflection on Romney
by W. J. 18 Sep '12

18 Sep '12

Sinister indeed! As well as unbelievably stoopid and captive to his own plutocrat cultural heritage. Mitt Womney's just one step shy of fascism, which notably led to mass executions ridding the world of those unproductive undesirables ('lesser breeds') who are a phenomenal drain on the welfare state. The Repugs' next move after the election: applying the Bain Capital philosophy of 'creative destruction' to the Underclass by denying them economic entitlements and healthcare services. And encouraging them to smoke, drink, shoot up, and eat cheap junk food (remember when ketchup was a vegetable?). Marshall I certainly haven't drunk the Repug Kool-Aid.

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Re: [Oe List ...] A good reflection on Romney
by Del Morril 18 Sep '12

18 Sep '12

thank you, thank you George!!! _____ From: oe-bounces(a)lists.wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of George Holcombe Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 1:15 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] A good reflection on Romney I'm sorry that this conversation has fallen to such a level. The mention of Kool Aid, which references the killing of people in the Jones Town tragedy, is saddening to me. And the idea we came close to becoming a cult as well. We still are an expression of movemental force. Of course Lingo has said there are as many versions of the Order as there are participants; take that as you may. My experience of this list serve is that of trans-establishment. It is not about a balance of political statements, establisment vs. dis-establishment views or prejudicial statements, but a wrestling with the future from our various perspectives. This is a very different type of discussion from the talking heads on U.S. media. It has grown out of our experience. We are all not the same, but we seek respectful dialogue and we work pretty hard to stick to the facts as best we can grasp them. Hopefully we can resume that level of discussion. As a participant in a number of list serves and a manager of one, I have found this one to be very good. Herman has brought us a lot of good material to struggle with and I look forward to that to continue. Most of the time I have noticed that when someone disagrees with another, we state what we see to be the case rather than to attack the other. Our world is changing very rapidly, practicing respectful dialogue might be a good practice for the future. George Holcombe 14900 Yellowleaf Tr. Austin, TX 78728 Mobile 512/252-2756 geowanda(a)earthlink.net Hope appeareth, but it is not your Hopeyou do not have anything to do with it. It just appeareth. It comes as a stranger, as an alienit just appeareth! You do not even know why you hope. How in the world could you hope when there is absolutely nothing to justify any hope? ~Joseph W. Mathews On Sep 18, 2012, at 11:04 AM, HERMAN GREENE <hfgreene(a)mindspring.com> wrote: I just thought it was a good refection Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone Susan Fertig <susan(a)gmdtech.com> wrote: Just for the record, not everyone on this listserv has drunk your KoolAid, and Im offended by your language in the message below and the one that succeeds it. Susan From: oe-bounces(a)lists.wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Herman Greene Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 10:21 AM To: 'Order Ecumenical Community' Subject: [Oe List ...] A good reflection on Romney <http://politicalwire.com/archives/2012/09/18/the_real_romney.html> The Real Romney <http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/09/real-romney-is-a-sneering-plutocrat.ht ml> Jonathan Chait says the <http://politicalwire.com/archives/2012/09/17/romney_explains_obama_voters.h tml> hidden camera video that went viral yesterday exposes Mitt Romney "as a far more sinister character than I had imagined. Here is the sneering plutocrat, fully in thrall to a series of pernicious myths that are at the heart of the mania that has seized his party. He believes that market incomes in the United States are a perfect reflection of merit. Far from seeing his own privileged upbringing as the private-school educated son of an auto executive-turned-governor as an obvious refutation of that belief, Romney cites his own life, preposterously, as a confirmation of it..." "The revelations in this video come to me as a genuine shock. I have never hated Romney. I presumed his ideological makeover since he set out to run for president was largely phony, even if he was now committed to carry through with it, and to whatever extent he'd come to believe his own lines, he was oblivious or naïve about the damage he would inflict upon the poor, sick, and vulnerable. It seems unavoidable now to conclude that Romney's embrace of Paul Ryanism is born of actual contempt for the looters and moochers, a class war on behalf of his own class." _____________________________________________ Herman Greene 2516 Winningham Drive Chapel Hill, NC 27516 919-929-4116 (h) 919-624-0579 (c) 919-942-4358 (f) Skype: hgreene-nc hfgreene(a)mindspring.com _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net

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