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Re: [Oe List ...] Fwd: Last OpEd from Jaime
by LAURELCG＠aol.com 27 Dec '12

27 Dec '12

Thank you, Jaime. Beautiful piece, as usual. I'll miss your columns. Did you get all the maps you need? Blessings, Jann McGuire In a message dated 12/27/2012 12:20:03 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, svesjaime(a)aol.com writes: Our last Saipan Tribune OpEd. The usual caveat: curious, welcome; not, see you at the bend. j'aime la vie Yesterday, appreciate; tomorrow, anticipate; today, participate. In all, Celebrate! -----Original Message----- From: Jaime R Vergara <jrvergarajr2031(a)aol.com> To: jayvee_vallejera <jayvee_vallejera(a)saipantribune.com>; mark_rabago <mark_rabago(a)saipantribune.com>; editor <editor(a)saipantribune.com> Sent: Thu, Dec 27, 2012 12:29 pm Subject: Last OpEd from Jaime Editorial, Here it is, the last one, for December 31. The Way We Are Whitney Houston's One Moment in Time was our song with 40-some graduate aggies lassoed to apply their learned skills in watershed resource management projects in three Visayan provinces in the Philippines in the late 80s. We caught the spirit of the song from the 1988 Seoul Summer Olympics. The song solidified the groups resolve to expend their individual and corporate lives on a task perceived critical to devastated upland agriculture, deforested tropical hills and plains, overly chemical-laden fields, and depleted mangrove and nearshore fisheries. It was a marvelous three-year intervention, our city shoes trekking through island interiors. We even had the staff of one site sue us in court for falling short on our vaunted support promises. We trained them too well. I was in agreement with the suit brought against me since I was the President of the sponsoring NGO for the projects. I moved back to the US before the case was resolved. I found out later that our charity foundation lost, and I was not too unhappy! This is our last reflection as a regular opinion writer for the Saipan Tribune. We shall not make the "thank you" to the publisher, staff, and readers, a long process. We did have a special niche for Ruth Tighe's brand of social commentaries. We consign our literary output, as is, into history, in her name. We shared on the day before Christmas our curriculum vitae from womb-to-tomb. Not your regular CV, we took the "one moment in time" metaphor to describe a lifetime - in our case, all 86 years of it - charted in five life stages, projected as witness to our description of every human soul that comes into this earth. "I am, like each of us, one, unique, unrepeatable gift of life into human history. There has never been one like me before, and there will never be another one like me ever again." That whole but single journey is my one moment in time! Most of our university classrooms are designed for lecture deliveries, and students expect that format in all their classes. When they come to mine, where pedagogy follows the "kill the teacher" motif in order to make the classroom a student-centered affair, they encounter structured time/space/role/story sessions where students meet themselves ("its a pleasure to meet me"), bump into their classmates "again for the first time", get mentally and gracefully assaulted by a teacher, and gnawed at their awareness by printed speeches and writings of prominent persons. Maps plastered against the walls broaden perspectives. Aired songs engage the neglected receptacle of hearing and listening, and repeating. We go for the ease and comfort of sounds becoming familiar before we divert attention to words seen, then seek out how they are used. We let students read out loud what others had written before we invite them to write their own. Many encounters occur at many levels of consciousness. One of the rituals I go through before each start of the class, after chairs and desks are rearranged so that the focus is on the center of the room while clusters of four students are around one of eight or nine squared tables, is to put on a table cloth on a single desk in the middle of the room. The cloth is a scarf not unlike what Yasser Arafat's Palestinian head wore. I place a broken coffee cup at the center with rice strewn around it in a circle. The cup's broken handle and rim chip are added, with shards of very old pagoda tiles mixed in. A Chinese hand fan leans against the chipped lip of the cup. A couple of whole walnuts sit atop the rice while local conch shells from Bo Hai guard the sides. Chopsticks stay by their lonesome at the edge. Once in a while, a paper rose protrudes from the cup. The class is only too polite to ask why the crazy (shen jing ping) teacher does this regular routine. At the end of the semester, I finally talk about the centerpiece. "The decor is not to make the room more beautiful", I say. It is an artform to represent who I am and how I live. It is way of telling my story. I am like the broken cup, well crafted but fragile. In this case, broken. The rice looks inviting but it is useless unless it is cooked. That entails heat. The intricate shell takes a lot of mullusk saliva to create but the cask is casually cast away after the content is consumed. The fan reveals how unfair life is. The Chinese worker who makes it gets paid a minuscule amount for time and talent compared to what Korean, German, and Japanese counterparts make to assemble electronics. The walnut has to be cracked to be of any good to anyone. After 6 decades, I have to learn to use a chopstick to survive. On top of it all, sometimes a fake rose gets to preside. "That pretty much tells the story of my life," I say. But it is the only life I have. I can live it, or throw it away. (Then it dawns on the class where my listen-repeat start of each session comes from.) So, for the last time, the class repeats after me: "This is the day we have. We can live this day, or throw it away. This is the day we have." It's the way we are! Thanks, y'all. j'aime la vie Yesterday, appreciate; tomorrow, anticipate; today, participate. In all, Celebrate! _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net

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FW: Mail Delivery Failure for Wtreece@southwind.net
by Lynda Cock 27 Dec '12

27 Dec '12

Sorry, I should have tried before I sent the note out. Lynda

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12/27/12, Spong: Learning about Europe’s Economy and Christianity’s Place in it
by Ellie Stock 27 Dec '12

27 Dec '12

HOMEPAGE MY PROFILE ESSAY ARCHIVE MESSAGE BOARDS CALENDAR Learning about Europe’s Economy and Christianity’s Place in it Throughout the past few years, and certainly as a factor in the recent American presidential race, the state of the economy has been front and center. An important aspect of this debate is our sense of increasing globalization that ties all nations into a single world economy. The Dow Jones Average has been whipsawed by the economic crises in Europe, for example, with the almost daily threats of economic collapse in Greece, Italy and Spain. Most people do not yet embrace how deeply interdependent the world has become economically and, especially, how interdependent world banking has become. The potential collapse of the economy of Spain was feared because it would bring with it the collapse of most of the major banks of the world including the United States. So, I made it my business while in Europe recently to get a first hand look at those things that now threaten us all economically in this global village that our world has become. Each nation seemed to be approaching the crisis differently. My first stop was in the United Kingdom where Conservative Prime Minister, David Cameron, has opted for an austerity approach to the threatened economy of his nation. Unrest is obvious as the price of university education in the UK has tripled, health care cutbacks have been instituted and the Value Added Tax (VAT) on all purchases has been raised significantly, thereby inflating the price of every purchase. As a result of this strategy, the economy of the UK has slipped back into a recession and unemployment is still very high. France had an election in May in the midst of this European crisis and the Socialist party came to power. True to his party’s standards, France’s new President Francois Hollande opted to address the crisis by pushing for higher taxes on the wealthy and more public money to alleviate the economic stress of the masses. In was an approach that was the exact opposite of the United Kingdom. Meanwhile, the economies of Greece, Italy and Spain have been put under pressure from the European Union to put their fiscal houses in order as a pre-requisite for receiving the monetary assistance that would make national bankruptcy no longer inevitable. Germany, whose economy is Europe’s strongest, has become as a consequence the dominant political power in the continent, accomplishing through economic means what that nation sought to accomplish through military might in World War II. Rising from the ashes of defeat, a prosperous Germany now faces the response that all dominant powers always receive. Yes, there is gratitude from those Germany is able to rescue, but there is also resentment and thus hostility flowing from those forced into frugality against their wills. Spain totters on the edge of economic disaster with a conservative right wing government. Its unemployment rate is above 25%, and constant demonstrations that recall the memories of the Spanish Civil War mark its national life. Both Greece and Italy face ongoing political upheaval. It is of great interest to this American observer to see that whatever government is in power, whether liberal or conservative, is either blamed for the economic turndown or for not having done enough to restart economic growth. The fact is that in an interdependent world, the tide of the world economy will carry all nations and the particular government in power at the time will rise or fall on that tide with little or no ability to change that nation’s circumstances dramatically. Whether we were in the United Kingdom, Germany, Austria, Hungary or Spain, the consensus was that the world’s economic collapse of 2008-2009 has been stopped, but that the progress out of that deep hole has been too slow to keep hope alive. The future at worst is bleak, and at best is not clear. As is always the case there will be overt political fallout for all those in power, whether liberal or conservative, until a full pattern of economic growth is established. There were several other things that also became obvious to me as we journeyed through these formative nations in Western civilization. The first is that boundaries are falling away in Europe faster than most of the people are emotionally prepared to accept or to admit. The common currency, the Euro, has brought a new sense of unity to the countries of Europe that most Europeans have not even imagined before. England still has its Pound Sterling, Sweden its Krona, Hungary its Forint, but the Euro has become a powerful sign of European oneness. The European Common Market now sets policy for all the member states on working conditions, environment, health standards and pay scales, which among other things are designed to make men and women doing the same work equal in compensation. Nation states resent this imposition on their sovereignty, but they recognize the impossibility of going on their own economically and so they bite their tongues and accept it. Grumbling is high, action is minimal. The second insight I gained on this trip was that the migration of people across Europe in search of employment is wide open. Citizens of the European Union no longer need to clear passport control to enter a member nation. Business leaders fly regularly from London to Moscow, Paris to Stockholm, Copenhagen to Rome, Zurich to Madrid in the same way that American business people criss-cross this nation by air on a daily basis. It is no longer a “foreign” trip. The populations of every European nation are today deeply integrated. One business I had the chance to visit had employees from Germany, Hungary, Austria, Serbia, Croatia, Ukraine, Slovakia and the Czech Republic. They all spoke German and English as well as the language of their own country of origin. Once there is economic unity, which is not far from being present now, political unity will surely follow. There is no illustration in history that might suggest otherwise. With people crossing boundaries that once seemed invincible, political unity will surely follow and the loyalty of citizens to a United States of Europe will in another century or so be at least competitive with if not deeper and more significant than loyalty to one’s nation of origin. That is the pattern that we have followed in the United States where today for most Americans, loyalty to this nation supersedes the loyalty to the state of our origin. Rapid population mobility makes that inevitable. My third insight was that in this scenario, it does not seem to matter that nation states of the past are today breaking into even smaller ethnic states: The Czech Republic and Slovakia have replaced Czechoslovakia. Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia, Kosovo and Slovenia are today where Yugoslavia once stood. The Soviet Union has dissolved and in its place are now Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Uzbekistan and others who are now self-governing units. Belgium is considering a split between its Flemish and its Walloon citizens. Scotland is about to vote in a referendum on Scottish independence. None of these smaller nations alone would be viable economically, but as States in the United States of Europe they can have the best of both worlds. Local autonomy is merging with corporate and national interdependence. My fourth insight was that Europe has one other reality with which it must deal. It has a history filled with dark chapters, marked by war, torture, genocide and the experience of being both the conqueror and the conquered. There is about much of this history a deep, corporate guilt. We saw this best in Hungary, a land that has been overrun constantly in its history, first by the Mongols, then by the Turks, the Hapsburgs, the Germans and the Soviets. Its history is filled with pain, deprivation and defeat. It also knows anti-Semitism and it still recalls the Jews who once lived in their midst, but who are no more. That is also true in Germany, Austria and Spain. We saw places where synagogues once stood, but are now marked by memorial monuments. We saw Jewish cemeteries that had been destroyed and desecrated. We saw public buildings into which Jewish tombstones had been placed as a kind of trophy. We saw memorial shoes planted on the bank of the Danube Promenade in Budapest, erected to mark the place where hundreds of Jews were lined up and shot with their bodies falling into the river to be washed by its tide into the Black Sea. We also saw the dark side of Communism, a system built on the dreams of equality, but which in actuality descended into the reality of slavery. We talked with Hungarians whose parents and grandparents had been removed to the Soviet Union as “war reparations laborers” to work almost as slaves in Soviet work camps and who were never heard of again. Europeans have known dictatorships of both the right and the left. They have known oppression and murder, dislocation and tribal hatreds. They see hope in an emerging sense of European oneness. They embrace that hope gingerly, not sure whether they can trust it, but seeing no alternative. They are in the vanguard of an emerging new trans-tribal consciousness that sees humanity as one, that now understands the fact that cooperation is better than war. They are also becoming aware that all religions in their past have been more divisive that helpful, that human consciousness does not stop at any boundary whether it be nationality, gender, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation or religion. A new world is being born. No, it is not an easy or comfortable world, but it is now seen as an inevitable world. With that new world, a new religion will of necessity also evolve. It, like the nations of Europe, will not deny its past, but it will have to transcend the limits that marked that past, surrender most of its irrational claims to have ever captured truth in its traditional religious forms and allow itself to evolve into something it has never been before. The changes in Europe make this an exciting time to be a Christian. The evolution of consciousness will require an evolution in religion. Christianity will be and must be changed into something it has never been before. Hopefully, we Christians will merge the treasures of our past with the dreams of our future. Europe, battered and bruised by its past, is prepared, I believe, to lead the world into that future. I hope a revived and open Christianity will be willing and able to be part of that tomorrow. ~JSS Read the essay online here. Question & Answer Colin T. Bent from Tulsa, writes: Question: I noted your use of the term “Post Christian world.” What do you mean? For some time it has come to me that when Jesus used the term, “I will be with you to the end of the eon” it meant to the end of the Christian era and that is the time we are in now. Am I totally confused or muddled with my thoughts here, or am I on to something? Answer: Dear Colin, My sense is that you have blurred some important distinctions and this has created a problem for you. First of all, you seem to be assuming that the text you quote, not exactly accurately, should be literally applied. That is a misuse of scripture. None of the words that we attribute to Jesus result from either a tape recording or an eye witness report. The particular text you are quoting is from Matthew’s gospel and it reads, “I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” It is attributed to the Risen Christ, and is part of the first quotation in any source that was said to have been spoken by Jesus after his crucifixion. In the opening chapter of Matthew, the annunciating angel says to Joseph that the baby’s name will be called Emmanuel which means “God with us.” The words attributed to the risen Jesus in Matthew’s gospel are designed by that gospel writer to complete the circle and to demonstrate that Jesus accomplished in his adult life what the annunciation prior to his birth proclaimed that he would be. It is, therefore an attempt both to affirm and to defend the messianic claim being made for Jesus by his followers. The end of time surely did not refer to the end of the Christian age because no one knew at the time Matthew was written, that there would be anything called the Christian Age. The followers of Jesus when Matthew was written were still members of the synagogue. There is no evidence that Jesus meant to establish a new religion or that he would have or could have said or used the words that you attribute to him. What did dominate the early Christian movement was the anticipation of the end of the world, which, they believed, would be marked by the second coming or the return of Jesus. This hope seems to have declined by the time the Fourth Gospel was written and John’s version of Pentecost or the coming of the Holy Spirit begins to be substituted for the literal second coming of Jesus. Pentecost stories appear only in the book of Acts and in the Fourth Gospel, both of which appear to be works of the tenth decade. Now, with that in mind, it is clear that Jesus did not promise to be with us to the end of the Christian era. The author of those words meant the second coming of Jesus, which would in that period of history mean the end of the world. What I mean by a Post-Christian era is that we have arrived at a time in history when the Christian Church or the Christian faith no longer dominates the life of Western Europe and the United States. The erosion of this influence began with the work of Copernicus and was brought to full fervor in the Enlightenment with the work of such people as Galileo and Isaac Newton. Christianity’s influence in Europe and in the United States today is minimal and, where it is influential, it appears to be so in the most negative of ways: Witness the Church’s war on women, which includes not only its negativity to both contraception and abortion, but also its still widely voiced hostility toward those who want to have women be priests, bishops, archbishops and Popes If that were not already enough, we could also point to the church’s continued prejudice against homosexual persons and its ill-fated attempt to diminish the insights of Charles Darwin. Ours is today a secular society and hence a Post-Christian era. I hope this helps. ~John Shelby Spong Announcements Note from the editors: The following message was meant to be included in last weeks essay. Our apologies for its delay. "We send to all of our subscribers and readers our best wishes for the Christmas season and our hope for a peaceful and just world in the New Year." ~John Shelby Spong and Christine Spong Any questions or concerns, please contact us at support(a)johnshelbyspong.com or 503-236-3545. Copyright © 2012 ProgressiveChristianity.org, All rights reserved. You are receiving this email because you have a membership at our website. Our mailing address is: ProgressiveChristianity.org 3530 SE Hawthorne Blvd. Unit 1 Portland, OR 97214 Add us to your address book . .

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Holcombes' Xmas Letter
by George Holcombe 26 Dec '12

26 Dec '12

Having a great holiday, hoping all of you are too. PDF of our letter, George Holcombe 14900 Yellowleaf Tr. Austin, TX 78728 Mobile 512/252-2756 geowanda(a)earthlink.net Hope appeareth, but it is not your Hope—you do not have anything to do with it. It just appeareth. It comes as a stranger, as an alien—it just appeareth! You do not even know why you hope. How in the world could you hope when there is absolutely nothing to justify any hope? ~Joseph W. Mathews

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Farewell to David
by Nancy Lanphear 24 Dec '12

24 Dec '12

Dear Ellie, Linda, A.M., Saraswati and Jeevan, I hold you in my heart, my prayers and in the light of the healing candle on my alter as you support David in bringing a close to his earthly life. You have cared for David in a nurturing and loving way over the past many months. Thank you for that, AM. With love, Nancy

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more on guns
by jlepps＠pc.jaring.my 24 Dec '12

24 Dec '12

Colleagues I'd like to add one more note to this lively dialogue (which I hope continues, and perhaps even begins to focus). It's obviously the case that a change of heart is required in this situation. The question becomes how to make that happen, and I'm reminded of Martin Luther Kings's response to us WASPS who were opposing desegregation because "we need to have hearts change to support integration." To paraphrase him, "Laws can't make you love me, but they may prevent you from killing me." Strict gun control may be that kind of law. And, IMHO, whatever will prevent this sort of mass murder is worth doing. Also I've noticed that hearts are remarkably adaptable to their external situation. In terms of luring the tiger, the question now that she's out of her lair (sorry Cynthia), what do we do: well perhaps something initial like forbidding the sale of assault weapons and mass magazines. That might be able to get some support from tigers. After all, we endure considerable inconvenience to insure safety on airplanes,, so perhaps the inconvenience of forbidding access to these instruments of mass destruction might be a possible first step. I don't believe we'll be able to change tigers into lambs, but maybe we can help de-fang them! John

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Re: [Oe List ...] Tony Elizondo
by jonzondo＠juno.com 24 Dec '12

24 Dec '12

Tony (my father) had an infection in the bone of his foot and had an operation last week to clean out the infection. All indications from my sister are that the surgery went well. I have not heard the recovery prognosis as yet. I will try to get a phone number to call and I will post it on this list. Thank you for the inquiry. And for all the prayers. In Beauty, Jon ____________________________________________________________ 1 Odd spice that FIGHTS diabetes Can this unusual "super spice" control your blood sugar and fight diabetes&#63 http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/50d802b1f0ba72b12576st02vuc Joann Williams called yesterday with the news that Tony is in the hospital near Houston. Perhaps Jon can get us up to date. George Holcombe 14900 Yellowleaf Tr. Austin, TX 78728 Mobile 512/252-2756 geowanda(a)earthlink.net Hope appeareth, but it is not your Hope—you do not have anything to do with it. It just appeareth. It comes as a stranger, as an alien—it just appeareth! You do not even know why you hope. How in the world could you hope when there is absolutely nothing to justify any hope? ~Joseph W. Mathews

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Re: [Oe List ...] Directory Ready To Mail
by Del Morril 23 Dec '12

23 Dec '12

Hi Mike. Have been away from my computer for over a month recuperating in a rehab center, while my e-mails have been shunted aside beyond my reach until just recently. Very weird! Anyway, did we ever send a check for our copy of the directory? If not, let me know right away. Del Del Hunter Morrill 3217 North Mason Avenue Tacoma WA 98407-5419 H: (253) 752-1506; W: (253) 383-5757 delhmor(a)wamail.net Web site: www. hypnocenter.com The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek. (Joseph Campbell) -----Original Message----- From: oe-bounces(a)lists.wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Jayandem2(a)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 6:19 PM To: Dialogue(a)wedgeblade.net; oe(a)wedgeblade.net Subject: [Oe List ...] Directory Ready To Mail Dear Friends and Colleagues: >From Mike Tippett: The 2013 Directory Of Those Who Care is now being printed. Copies for those who have already ordered a Directory will be mailed out by the end of this week. There is still time for you to order your copy! For those who aren't familiar with The Directory, it is a listing of names, addresses, phones, emails and occupations of several hundred people who have been at one time or another associated with the I.C.A., or the Ecumenical Institute, or its programs and projects. It's fun to see where everyone is living and what each is doing. (I'm in Florida and am semi-retired) The Directory 2013 If you would like a copy of your listing, either write or email me. I have a special email for The Directory: MovementDir(a)aol.com <mailto:MovementDir@aol.com> If you would like a copy of The Directory, send in the form below. Cost of the Directory is $20.00 for either the booklet form or a CD. If you order two forms, it will cost $30.00. ORDER FORM NAME: ______________________________ ADDRESS: ____________________________ CITY/STATE/POSTAL(ZIP) CODE: ____________________________ COUNTRY: ________________________ EMAIL: ______________________________ Make Checks out to and send orders to: Michael B. Tippett, 4676 32nd Court East, Bradenton, FL 34203 (USA) Phone: (941) 753-5189 Email: MovementDir(a)aol.com Please send me a copy of the directory: [ ] Booklet form [ ] CD Cost of the Directory is $20.00 for either the booklet form, or a CD. If you order two forms, it will cost $30.00. I enclose $___________ The Floppy Disk and CD will contain In Memoriam and Names and Addresses, etc, in Microsoft Word format.

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A.M. NOEL
by Sherwood Shankland 23 Dec '12

23 Dec '12

Hey Johnny, Eunice and I join you in spirit to celebrate the completed life of you Father-in-law, David. You have cared for him in a special way that few of our elders ever dream of receiving…for more than a year, practical day-to-day love is a precious gift that you have given. Please give yourself some time and space to reflect on your journey – blessings for the road ahead. And Happy Christmas to you and your whole family. In Peace, Woody and Eunice From: oe-bounces(a)lists.wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Ellie Stock Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 4:10 PM To: oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Yes and . . . Dear A.M. and Linda and family, We celebrate the gift of the life of David, with whom we worked on Long Island when we were in the Brooklyn House. We keep you in prayer and will be gathering with you in spirit as you gather to remember and give thanks for his life in all its fulness. Grace and peace, Carleton and Ellie elliestock(a)aol.com -----Original Message----- From: A.M. Noel <amnoel(a)comcast.net> To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Sat, Dec 22, 2012 4:39 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Yes and . . . Dear Volleagues, One of local church pastor Rev. David Vernooy my father in law wished goodbye to the world today at 4:35 PM. he died peacefully at home right next to his wife. the funeral will be at Grace United Methodist church in Beacon NY 12508 at 11:AM saturday December 29th 2012. A.M. Noel 206-321-6274 _____ From: "Don Bushman" <onedonbushman(a)gmail.com> To: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 4:12:11 PM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Yes and . . . I suggest we find the common water table for conversation. The surface well opening certainly has to do with gun violence. I believe community safety is the common water table conversation. In the last several days when the Newtown tragedy arose in conversations, I shifted the conversation to community safety. I live in a very red area only 1 in 20 people has matriculated from a bachelor's program, a county where with one Episcopal Church and one Catholic (mostly Hispanic) 14 Methodist and 77 Baptist churches. I even hear banjos 10 minutes out of the city limits. Every time I shifted the conversation about the necessity of community safety I found I could have a civil interesting and sometimes profound conversation. During the Town Meeting Campaign, Joe Pierce and Jim Phillips were a team fund raising for TM 76. At one council Joe did a presentation on how to respond to the question of what the $1,600 dollars purchased. (I reflect in open mouthed amazement that the fee was only $1,600 by the way) At the heart of his presentation was the insight of the only way to have a conversation about whether or not that community wanted to participate in the TM'76 campaign -- was to shift the conversation away from a dollar by dollar accounting to the what the value of the outcome a Town Meeting could produce. Yesterday Mr. La Prick, (do the translation from French to English thank you Google Translate) of NRA association illustrated why if you start where he started, (the only way to defend against an evil man with a gun is a good man with a gun), a shift of conversation is reuired. To enter into a conversation about how we defend against an evil man with a gun, is to enter into a conversation of self defense. . . .quite a different conversation from talking about characteristics of safe community. Not to mention that one conversation could very likely not expand his grasp of the situation. If I were to enter into that conversation with him, I would begin talking with him with as closed a mind as I am certain he has. Where is the room for the conversation there? I believe that what is good for the community is good for each member of the community. And if anything is good for one, but not for the whole community; it is therefore in fact not good for any one member of the community. In the conversation of community safety, I would also like to explore if our community is safe, against what does the individual have to defend themselves? And what is the most effective way to do that? Three years ago I had a very intense conversation with one of my very best and oldest of friends. Unlike my brother and son who own gun arsenals, he only owned 4 guns, 2 of which are antiques and one of those is a flint lock rifle, hardly one to be used against an intruder. And his question of me at the end of our heated exchange was: "Don, if an intruder in the middle of the night threatened you with a gun, what would you do to defend you and your wife?" I thought about it a long time and here is my answer, I would attempt to talk my way out of the situation, and if I did not succeed, it would be what it would be. I happen to think my chances are as favorable as if I had to reach and risk killing another human being with my (currently non existent) bedside gun. And as a credential for those of you familiar with my own liberal personality: In high school I walked away from a challenge fight in each year of my high school career, in the midst of the embarrassment that was, because I had determined even then responding to violence with violence only determined who was the more violent. And since then lived through a robbery at gunpoint in Fifth City with George Packard, and more recently I have talked down two who were exchanging blows. I cite these not to claim some expertise or power, merely to say I have experienced some of the emotions that go with those threatening situations. (Not to mention reading the book Jon Jenkins found titled Men Under Fire) The necessity for having a plan for self defense and being prepared to implement it is a necessity in our times. I think it is also necessary first to think about the community context. I find the very language interesting, self defense clearly has as purpose, the defense of oneself. Community safety on the other hand has as its purpose the elimination of the need for self defense. I met Obama in Chicago when he spoke at the SCUPE conference I think in 1998. I almost dropped what I was doing at that moment in order to convince him to run for president. (Actually the second time I had that urge. The first time I acted on it and did have a conversation with Dick Celeste. I thought it to be a bold move, I had yet to learn that people in his position, have to listen to people who had way more financial and political clout than I will ever possess.) I believe he is exactly what we need at this moment, a leader who is passionate about the historic context of the constitution and a leader who attempts to convince all of us about the next pragmatic possible step we can take. At the time when we need someone who acts quite pragmatically, the very nature of the ideological standoffs works against our grasping how appropriate his leadership style is. I will be glad to use my one opportunity of access to Carolyn Lukensmeyer if I can go with a plan and a commitment. Peace On Dec 22, 2012, at 9:31 AM, James Wiegel <jfwiegel(a)yahoo.com> wrote: Gordon and all . . . Yes, and, aren't we blessed ones . . . Born, like Gordon and others indicate, >From such a different far off womb or culture or time To still feel and appreciate the warmth, The nurture that birthed and growed us up Not sugar coating (too much) the reality Of what we were born into And yet to have been so blessed To have chosen / been chosen / launched onto This immense journey Into such a different era Remember The Snout? As Joe Slicker says, sometimes, My, my, my, my. Jim Wiegel Jfwiegel(a)yahoo.com Joan Chittister “Christmas is not for children. It is for those who refuse to give up and grow old, for those to whom life comes newly and with purpose each and every day, for those who can let yesterday go so that life can be full of new possibility always, for those who are agitated with newness whatever their age.” Partners in Participation Upcoming public course opportunities: ToP Facilitation Methods: Feb 12-13, 2013, May 21-22, 2013, Sep 17-18, 2013 ToP Strategic Planning, Oct 9-10, 2012 The AZ Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday (1-4 pm) of the month Facilitation Mastery : Our Mastering the Technology of Participation program is available in Phoenix in 2012-3. Program begins on Nov 14-16, 2012 See short video http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=55 and website for further details. On Dec 18, 2012, at 21:37, Ken Fisher <hkf232(a)gmail.com> wrote: Thank you, Doris. Thank you, Gordon. I love my 'cowboy' hats, be they Resistol-Texan or Akubra-Australian. I was once a big fan of Hopalong Cassidy, Roy Rogers, the Cisco Kid, Have Gun Will Travel and The Rifleman. Later it was Peter Gunn! Time for a change. Ken Who would want to miss and episode? On 2012-12-18, at 11:05 PM, Doris Hahn wrote: We all grew up in a gun culture if we grew up in the U.S.A. (note Gordon's manner of speaking: "It's essential if we're to have a real shot at changing the images...." Earlier this evening I watched a Newshour interview with five or six people from Newtown who were meeting to decide how to respond to this latest horror, and one of them said something about "what we are shooting for...." It's small, but it's real and deeply imbedded; maybe we could say, "symbolic." About 27 years ago, while I was visiting my mother, I decided to oil my old 410 shotgun (given to me by my dad on the occasion of my 11th birthday). Other family members wandered about the kitchen where I was sitting, and someone asked what I was going to do with the gun. My young nephew immediately answered, "shoot people," to which I quickly replied, "not people -- birds." My nephew responded with a pain-filled frown, "Why would you kill a bird?!" It was probably about 1956 that I last shot that gun. In 2004, just before moving to Indiana, I took it to a local gun shop and sold it. I believe the conversation has opened up again, and surely we can do our part in helping it to move along. I will be exceedingly happy if Feinstein can get her bill passed, and having the president do something radical would be helpful, but I think Gordon is right about what our job is, at least for now. Doris Hahn On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 4:52 AM, Gordon Harper <gharper1(a)mindspring.com> wrote: Since I'm part of this problem and hopelessly complicit in sustaining it, I'll start with a little confession. Like many of us, I grew up in a gun culture, in my case as a Wisconsin farm boy. I loved the various rifles and handguns I accumulated over those early years, and I continued to sharpen my target shooting through college and graduate school and even as a young professor (never really had the heart for hunting). I was (full disclosure) a member of the NRA starting in high school, so that I could get my cases of 22 ammo for a pittance. (I dropped my membership while in college, when the organization started to morph into the right wing entity that we see today.) When our family joined the symbolic order and moved to the West Side, I got rid of everything except for a special treasure, my Ruger Single Six (replica Colt six-gun) with its beautiful rosewood grips and fancy Mexican fast draw holster. Lane Erskine and I used to enjoy sharing our fascination with our handguns' workmanship. Unlike Lane, who was given to packing heat as he moved about in 5th City, I kept mine unloaded and in a locked case in our room. After a few months, however, I became concerned that even with those safeguards, in our community, with the kids having easy access to everyone's rooms, it was too much of a risk. With great sadness, I took my beloved revolver and holster to a gun shop in Wisconsin and sold them, thus ending my gun ownership phase. When it came time, a few years later, to decide which of my siblings would inherit our father's firearms, I chose not to participate in the distribution. I start with this to make the point that what we're dealing with in this gun culture lies very deep in many of us. I've had--and still have--a love affair with the classic American Western film. This is a tradition that exalts the single shootist, who is able to do good and make things right for others precisely because he has at least one sidearm and when necessary uses it well. I see myself mirrored in the fascination of young people today for all the first person shooter games, battlefield adventures and standing one's ground against those hordes of attacking vampires. It's a manifestation of our special culture as Americans, with our frontier tradition and mythology. Which in turn is an aspect of what we sometimes refer to as the concept of American exceptionalism. To deal seriously with gun violence, it seems to me, is to take on the challenge of shifting these profoundly rooted national and personal images and stories of who we are. They are so much a part of us that we hardly ever feel the need to talk about them--they're simply assumed, taken for granted as part of the common ground we share as Americans. We all grieve when events like those of this past week occur, and we feel personal shock and pain when one of them hits close to home. At the same time, at some deep level we also find our way to accepting these occurrences as the tragic but necessary side effects of our special nature as a frontier people and the unique role of our nation in the world. It's like the collateral war damage to innocent people that we've accustomed ourselves to living with. We lament it, and we truly want to keep it to the bare minimum, but we also feel that our historical role requires our paying this cost (a bit of White Man's Burden, redivivus). Theologically, there's a strong connection here with the myth of redemptive violence, which provides a religious rationale for many among us to accept the way things are and for at least part of the deep resistance we encounter to changing the gun laws. I suspect that we will now begin to see some modest changes in access to semi-automatic weapons, some improvements in preventing, spotting and caring for mental illness, maybe even more support for our educational systems. I'm hoping it's also a point in time where we will see, in various formats and venues, the start of the conversation about our national identity and values that we very much need to have. What I find myself looking for are ways to engage our neighbors and ourselves in surfacing and exploring together these largely unquestioned images and stories that so powerfully shape our behavior. What is really special or exceptional about America--the good, the bad and the ugly--relative to what is special and exceptional about any other nation and people? How are we to understand that exceptionalism, and what do we do with it in today's world? Some of us might like to get rid of the whole idea of exceptionalism, but I think in this country, it's there, and we have to engage it. Doing so, it seems to me, is key to that long range and indirect strategy we've been talking about in this conversation. It's essential if we're to have a real shot at changing the images from which we continue to act and from which we and others continue to suffer. Engaging these conversations, I'm afraid, means welcoming and listening deeply to those with whom we strongly disagree--sharing and discussing together what we think the times call us to preserve in our heritage, what to leave behind and what to recreate. If it's to work, it will have to be uncomfortably inclusive, in a big tent, as the Occupy folk like to say. We could begin to start such conversations in our workplaces, our churches, our book groups, our community meetings, at the pub or coffee shop, over dinner with friends, on line, using all these wonderful social media tools. It's something each of us could tackle, if we chose to, without much of an organizational structure. Maybe down the road at some point, . . . . Is this a tactic--and a conversation--we want to be part of? Gordon On 12/17/2012 1:45 PM, jlepps(a)pc.jaring.my wrote: Colleagues I'd like to add one more note to this lively dialogue (which I hope continues, and perhaps even begins to focus). It's obviously the case that a change of heart is required in this situation. The question becomes how to make that happen, and I'm reminded of Martin Luther Kings's response to us WASPS who were opposing desegregation because "we need to have hearts change to support integration." To paraphrase him, "Laws can't make you love me, but they may prevent you from killing me." Strict gun control may be that kind of law. And, IMHO, whatever will prevent this sort of mass murder is worth doing. Also I've noticed that hearts are remarkably adaptable to their external situation. In terms of luring the tiger, the question now that she's out of her lair (sorry Cynthia), what do we do: well perhaps something initial like forbidding the sale of assault weapons and mass magazines. That might be able to get some support from tigers. After all, we endure considerable inconvenience to insure safety on airplanes,, so perhaps the inconvenience of forbidding access to these instruments of mass destruction might be a possible first step. I don't believe we'll be able to change tigers into lambs, but maybe we can help de-fang them! John _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net

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Re: [Oe List ...] Tony Elizondo
by George Holcombe 23 Dec '12

23 Dec '12

Joann Williams called yesterday with the news that Tony is in the hospital near Houston. Perhaps Jon can get us up to date. George Holcombe 14900 Yellowleaf Tr. Austin, TX 78728 Mobile 512/252-2756 geowanda(a)earthlink.net Hope appeareth, but it is not your Hope—you do not have anything to do with it. It just appeareth. It comes as a stranger, as an alien—it just appeareth! You do not even know why you hope. How in the world could you hope when there is absolutely nothing to justify any hope? ~Joseph W. Mathews

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