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by Beret Griffith 04 Sep '25

04 Sep '25

Hello David, Please add Paul Noah to the list. noah.noah(a)gmail.com Thankyou, Beret Griffith

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Fwd: My Meditative Council: Seven Theologians from Kierkegaard to Marshall
by David Marshall 04 Sep '25

04 Sep '25

What Is a Theologian Anyway & Why Should We Care? ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ Forwarded this email? Subscribe here <https://substack.com/redirect/2/eyJlIjoiaHR0cHM6Ly9tYXJzaGFsbGJvb2tzLnN1YnN…> for more My Meditative Council: Seven Theologians from Kierkegaard to Marshall <https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=4924521&post_id=172824418…>What Is a Theologian Anyway & Why Should We Care? David Marshall <https://substack.com/@davidmarshall571181> Sep 4 <https://substack.com/@davidmarshall571181> <https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=4924521&post_id=172824418…> <https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=4924521&post_id=172824418…> <https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=4924521&post_id=172824418…> <https://substack.com/redirect/2/eyJlIjoiaHR0cHM6Ly9vcGVuLnN1YnN0YWNrLmNvbS9…> READ IN APP <https://open.substack.com/pub/marshallbooks/p/my-meditative-council-seven-t…> <https://substack.com/redirect/e8f0ebcf-3527-471a-9ca6-7c9991d0f6bb?j=eyJ1Ij…> I grew up in the Order: Ecumenical hearing the term “Meditative Council” a lot. This meant a group of people in my head who helped direct my actions. Sometimes I intentionally placed them there, but sometimes they weaseled in on their own. This article covers seven people on my “Meditative Council of Theologians”: S*ø*ren Kierkegaard, Rudolf Bultmann, Paul Tillich, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, H. Richard Niebuhr, Joseph Wesley Mathews, and Gene Wesley Marshall. The last two I knew personally—one was my father. The first five came to me from books, lectures, seminars, videos and conversations with fellow students. If you have been following my Substack articles, you know I wrote earlier this year about seven Christian men who helped shape me in *IRON BOY: Searching for Freedom Inside a Family Religious Order <https://substack.com/redirect/5b4b7428-e008-42f2-b6e6-b219237029d7?j=eyJ1Ij…>*. You also know my father, Gene Wesley Marshall, who passed away last month at the age of 93, was one of them. He died with gusto, engaged in an hour long conversation with fellow 90-something Ben Ball about theology just a week before he died. Which brings me to the topic of this article: *What is a “theologian” anyway, and why should anyone care?* And what’s the difference between an ordained “minister” and a “theologian.” And importantly to my life, and maybe yours, of these seven theologians, now all deceased, *what was their main impact on Christian theology and how did they differ?* Let’s start with a chronology of the life spans, locations, and overlap of these seven theologians: S <https://substack.com/redirect/643be40c-7222-4cb5-a357-6b5d89c5efd5?j=eyJ1Ij…>*ø <https://substack.com/redirect/643be40c-7222-4cb5-a357-6b5d89c5efd5?j=eyJ1Ij…>*ren Kierkegaard <https://substack.com/redirect/643be40c-7222-4cb5-a357-6b5d89c5efd5?j=eyJ1Ij…> (1813-1855, died at 42 years old - Denmark) Rudolf Bultmann <https://substack.com/redirect/e8b30ad0-681b-4458-9a6a-fe77cb348dfb?j=eyJ1Ij…> (1884-1976, died at 92 years old – Germany) H. Richard Niebuhr <https://substack.com/redirect/b367c97c-c660-43df-943b-cf6e0392b81d?j=eyJ1Ij…> (1884-1962, died at 78 years old – United States) Paul Tillich <https://substack.com/redirect/d90ad0e1-983e-46cf-9f73-dab7d971cddd?j=eyJ1Ij…> (1886-1965, died at 79 years old – Germany, United Stated) Dietrich Bonhoeffer <https://substack.com/redirect/3e5c137b-14e6-49d8-a3ee-f9eb2d9e606e?j=eyJ1Ij…> (1906-1945, died at 39 years old - Germany) Joseph W. Mathews <https://substack.com/redirect/a149b570-e0d7-48f9-9172-07ca3a56780c?j=eyJ1Ij…> (1911-1977, died at 66 years old – United States) Gene W. Marshall <https://substack.com/redirect/37aa4540-32d0-4f0b-9a84-7a743e2cf297?j=eyJ1Ij…> (1932-2025, died at 93 years old – United States) <https://substack.com/redirect/75b63e77-5360-451d-98bd-13c7d6156d8a?j=eyJ1Ij…> Of these seven theologians, only Kierkegaard was both born and died in the 19th century. Bultmann, Niebuhr and Tillich were born in the 19th century and died in the 20th century. Bonhoeffer and Mathews were born and died in the 20th century. Marshall was born in the 20th century and died in the 21st century, just last month. This inquiry started from me a few weeks ago when the aforementioned Amazing Ben Ball wrote to an Order: Ecumenical online alumni group saying he wished to make a large donation to a dedicated room in the Ecumenical Institute building on the Near North Side of Chicago to my father. He said: ““Without question, he is by far the greatest and most effective living theologian.” That got me thinking. Dad stopped preaching from the pulpit of the Methodist Church many moons ago, and I thought of him as a “Recovering Minister” in the same way as we hear about “Recovering Lawyers.” So I didn’t really consider him to be a clergyman in the traditional sense anymore, nor as a theologian in the same sense as some of the other bigger names with wider audiences whom we all studied in the Order. So I dug in, partially with the help of fellow Order/EI/ICA alumnus James Wiegel, who sent me some of his recent ChatGPT inquiries about my father and Joseph Wesley Mathews, and partially based on my own Google AI and ChatGPT questions. My brother Wayne had also done some ChatGPT inquiries about both Joe Mathews and Dad a few weeks ago. Some of what follows is from the AI engines, as indicated by italics. What Is a Theologian Anyway? Here is how ChatGPT answers the question about the definitions and differences between a Christian “minister” and a “theologian”: *1. Christian Minister* · *Definition: A person officially recognized and authorized by a church to lead worship, preach, administer sacraments, and provide pastoral care.* · *Distinguishing Characteristics:* o *Primary role is practical and pastoral.* o *Focuses on serving a congregation and guiding people in faith.* o *Often performs rituals like baptisms, weddings, funerals, and preaching weekly sermons.* o *Emphasis is on applied theology—putting faith into action in daily life.* *2. Christian Theologian* · *Definition: A person who studies, interprets, and systematizes the doctrines of Christianity, often in an academic or scholarly context.* · *Distinguishing Characteristics:* o *Primary role is intellectual and analytical.* o *Focuses on understanding and explaining faith, scripture, history, and doctrine.* o *Often writes books, essays, or teaches in seminaries/universities.* o *Emphasis is on theoretical theology—exploring ideas about God, Christ, the Spirit, and the Church.* *✅ Key Difference: A minister leads and nurtures a community of believers in practice; a theologian studies, interprets, and teaches the ideas behind the faith. Many individuals, like Tillich or Bonhoeffer, can be both minister and theologian, but their primary emphasis differs.* Okay, so far this tells me that a theologian can also be a minister, in most cases is ordained, and probably spent part of their careers preaching to their local congregations. But a minister is not necessarily a theologian unless they study, interpret, and systematize Christian documents, frequently in an academic or scholarly way. But many ministers do this was well. Distinguishing characteristics of theologians seem to be writing books and teaching in seminaries. Joseph Mathews taught as Perkins Theological Seminary at Southern Methodist University, but he did not publish any books (to my knowledge). My father, Gene Wesley Marshall, wrote twelve books, mostly on religion and theology, but did not teach in universities. The other five members of my Meditative Council wrote numerous books, had books written about them, and most taught in academic settings. One, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, notably died in prison resisting the Nazis in World War II. What Does Each New Theologian Bring to the Party? My second line of inquiry is why not just teach the Bible using the words of Jesus and his disciples as documented by the Mark, Mathew, Luke, John, and Paul? My answer to this important question was ingrained into me from a young age by my father and mother: the folks who wrote the New Testament part of the Christian bible in the first century spoke in parables and mythology, so modern scholars needed to interpret these stories for our own lives. Otherwise, we had to believe everything literally happened, which didn’t make any sense. If that was true, we had to believe in magic and the supernatural. So here come the well-known modern theologians, Kierkegaard, Bultmann, Tillich, Bonhoeffer, and H. Richard Niebuhr (distinguished here between his brother Reinhold Niebuhr, who was also a theologian), and two lesser-known theologians, Mathews and Marshall. Realizing that the AI language model can be long-winded unless boundaries are set, my question to Google AI and ChatGPT was the same in all cases: “What is <person’s name> main contribution to Christian theology in one sentence?” Here are the answers I received: *“Søren Kierkegaard's main contribution to theology is his emphasis on the individual's subjective relationship with God, characterized by a passionate "leap of faith" beyond the limitations of reason and a critique of institutionalized Christianity that, in his view, had become too complacent and impersonal.”* (source: Google AI) *“Søren Kierkegaard’s emphasized the individual’s subjective relationship with God, stressing personal faith, existential choice, and the necessity of confronting doubt and anxiety in the journey of authentic Christian life.”* (source: ChatGPT) <https://substack.com/redirect/84905c7c-25fe-4ef1-8375-4f6beac8a83e?j=eyJ1Ij…> *“Rudolf Bultmann's main contribution to theology is his demythologization program, which aims to strip away the mythological elements of the New Testament to reveal its core existential and theological meaning for modern people.”* (source: Google AI) “*Bultmann translated biblical myth into modern, existential meaning.”* (source: “ultra-short sentence” per ChatGPT) <https://substack.com/redirect/2912a954-4e9a-4bfb-81fb-9d7f74b0de5d?j=eyJ1Ij…> *“Paul Tillich's main contribution was developing a theology that engages with modern existentialism, particularly by defining God as "being-itself," the ground of all being, rather than a being among others. He also emphasized that religious symbols and doctrines point to existential truths, not literal ones.”* (source: Google AI) *“Tillich said that God is not just another being out there in the universe, but the very ground of being itself—the depth of everything that exists and the source of ultimate meaning.”* (source: “ultra-short sentence” per ChatGPT) <https://substack.com/redirect/86a2512b-2f44-4fdc-b436-a9e5e40ab7b3?j=eyJ1Ij…> *“Dietrich Bonhoeffer's primary theological contribution can be summarized as his call for a "religionless Christianity," which emphasizes that authentic Christian life requires living and engaging with the secular world, serving others, and participating in God's suffering in the world, rather than retreating into traditional religious practices or institutions for personal salvation.”* (source: Google AI) “*Bonhoeffer taught that real Christian faith is not cheap or easy, but a matter of costly discipleship, lived out in community and in courageous, responsible action for others.”* (source: “ultra-short sentence” per ChatGPT) <https://substack.com/redirect/32426f33-3c1d-43a9-a977-7c219d9972a9?j=eyJ1Ij…> *“H. Richard Niebuhr's primary contribution to theology is his development of a typology outlining five different models for understanding the relationship between Christianity and culture: Christ against Culture, Christ of Culture, Christ above Culture, Christ and Culture in Paradox, and Christ the Transformer of Culture.”* (source: Google AI) “*Niebuhr explored the many ways Christians have responded to culture through history, showing that Christ can stand against, above, or within culture—and that faith is always lived in tension with the world.”* (source: “ultra-short sentence” per ChatGPT) <https://substack.com/redirect/7d3df8a7-83cf-4bb1-94e3-082d7e6a6495?j=eyJ1Ij…> >From those who have read *IRON BOY* or my Substack article about the Ecumenical Institute’s signature weekend course for lay people, Religious Studies 1 <https://open.substack.com/pub/marshallbooks/p/abcs-of-holy-spirit-and-churc…> (RS-1), you know that four of these theologians made major contributions to the three parts of the Holy Trinity and the role of the “Church”: · GOD – demythologized as MYSTERY by Bultmann · CHRIST – demythologized as GRACE by Tillich · HOLY SPIRIT – demythologized as FREEDOM by Bonhoeffer · CHURCH – redefined as SOCIAL PIONEER by H. Richard Niebuhr If Kierkegaard loomed so large in the Ecumenical Institute staff’s thinking, why didn’t he warrant his own module in RS-1? To hear my father talk about it, Kierkegaard was the father of RS-1, or the root theologian from whence the others came. Google AI did not have a one-sentence summary for Mathews or Marshall, but ChatGPT did: *Joseph W. Mathews’s main contribution to modern theology was to move theology out of the classroom and into the world, shaping it as a lived, communal discipline where the church confronts social, political, and economic realities through structured methods of engagement and action.* And here’s my crack at it:* Joseph W. Mathews’s* main contribution to theology is in synthesizing the works of the aforementioned five theologians from the 19th and 20th centuries, and bundling their work in understandable language for clergy and lay people, which included the Religious Studies 1 course using Christian symbols and the Other World and Odyssey curriculum using secular language, together with his commitment to put the “social pioneering” church to work in underserved communities. (source: David Marshall from reading GWM’s writings about JWM) <https://substack.com/redirect/ddb1f85c-8eee-44c2-836d-87c3393c19e4?j=eyJ1Ij…> ChatGBT on my father (I let it go to three sentence, because, hey, he’s my dad!): *“Gene Wesley Marshall has contributed significantly to modern theology through his exploration of Christian consciousness and the integration of religious experience with profound human awareness. His main contribution to modern theology can be summarized as follows: Gene Wesley Marshall reimagined Christian theology as a dynamic interplay between profound human consciousness and the sacred, emphasizing the transformative power of awareness in spiritual practice. This perspective positions theology not merely as doctrinal study but as a lived, conscious experience that engages deeply with the mysteries of existence.”* And here’s my version:* Gene W. Marshall’s* main contribution to theology is taking the work of the Ecumenical Institute and Institute of Cultural Affairs in the 20th century to new levels in the 21st century through the Realistic Living <https://substack.com/redirect/395da107-1c0e-4ecc-9eb4-afe0f1922ab7?j=eyJ1Ij…> curriculum that stressed co-pastor circles of engaged community members practicing demythologized religious principles together in radical and active service to the world. These included leadership in the bioregional movement, and embracing world religions and other more secular spiritual expressions. (source: David Marshall from reading GWM’s writings and discussions with him) <https://substack.com/redirect/81e3ccc0-c0b3-4c2b-8c3e-d467097663c5?j=eyJ1Ij…> Marshall After Mathews - Measuring Impact This last section is courtesy of James Wiegel, who sent this to me soon after my father died last month. He asked ChatGPT several penetrating questions about Dad. Wiegel’s Question: Gene Wesley Marshall died this morning at 93 years of age. What did he contribute to contemporary theology? Answer: *I’m sorry to hear about the passing of Gene Wesley Marshall this morning. While I couldn’t locate a published obituary just yet, I did find credible sources detailing his life’s work and contributions to contemporary theology. Here’s what stands out:* *Contributions of Gene Wesley Marshall to Contemporary Theology* *1. Championing an Interpretive Theology of “Approximate Knowing”* *Marshall’s recent work “Approximate Knowing: The End of our Dogmatic View of Religion,” reframes theological understanding around humility and mystery. He encourages readers to embrace uncertainty and curiosity instead of rigid doctrinal certainty. According to the description, he argues that our knowledge of reality—including spiritual and religious truth—is inherently “approximate,” and that recognizing this opens us to deeper insight and spiritual growth.* *2. Merging Science, Faith, and Social Ethics* *His background in mathematics and physics (initially educated at Oklahoma State University) later became foundational to a nuanced, interdisciplinary approach to theology. After entering seminary at Perkins School of Theology in 1953, he served as a pastor, army chaplain, and led an ecumenical institute supporting diverse leadership for social engagement.* *3. A Voice for Freedom and Liberation Theology* *In “So Be Free: Pastoral Discourses on Freedom,” Marshall explores the nature of freedom—human, spiritual, and ethical—through a lens that blends secular and Christian vocabularies. His 24 essays invite readers into deep reflection, asserting that freedom is not just a concept but a lived relationship with the “Profound Reality.”* *4. Visionary Integration of Activism and Theology* *From the early 1960s, Marshall was active in the civil rights movement, serving as the Protestant executive for the National Conference on Religion and Race. In the 1980s, he helped organize the bioregional movement, an ecological and cultural approach to community living. Starting in 1983, he co-founded the nonprofit Realistic Living with his wife Joyce, through which they designed innovative educational programs, workshops, and published numerous theological and ethical writings.* *5. Producing a Rich Tapestry of Theological Works* *Over many decades, Gene Wesley Marshall authored multiple books including:* - *“The Thinking Christian” — exploring religion as a social process linking humans to “Profound Reality,” and calling for a revitalized, activist form of Christian practice. * - *“Radical Gifts: Living the Full Christian Life in Troubled Times,” “From Empire to Eco-Democracy,” and “The Enigma of Consciousness”—though less detailed in online descriptions, these titles suggest thoughtful intersections between faith, societal challenges, and consciousness.* *In Summary* *Gene Wesley Marshall’s legacy is one of bridging disciplines, movements, and spiritual depths:* - *Theologically, he urged humility and wonder—seeing theological knowledge as “approximate,” and faith as a dynamic, interpretive process. * - *Practically, he combined activism and theology, engaging in civil rights, ecological reform, and spiritual formation through the Realistic Living movement. * - *Creatively, he produced a broad body of writing that fused rational inquiry, spiritual reflection, and social ethics. * *Would you like to explore any of his works in greater depth—perhaps excerpts from “Approximate Knowing” or themes in “The Thinking Christian”? Let me know, and I can help dig deeper.* Wiegel’s Question: That’s a really thoughtful question. Let’s look at it in two parts — impact on established Christianity and on progressive social movements — and weigh the likelihood in each sphere. *1. Established Christianity (mainline or institutional churches)* - *Opportunities for impact * - *Gene Wesley Marshall’s emphasis on “approximate knowing” and humility before mystery resonates with many theologians and clergy who are trying to move their congregations away from rigid dogma toward a more open, exploratory faith. * - *His engagement with civil rights, ecology, and freedom mirrors themes in mainline Protestantism (United Methodist, UCC, ELCA, PCUSA) that are already shifting toward social justice and ecological awareness. * - *His writings provide fresh language for clergy and lay leaders who want to ground activism in theological depth. * - *Limitations * - *Established Christianity is struggling with declining membership, polarization, and an aging base. Institutions often adopt theological innovations slowly, and “approximate knowing” may feel destabilizing to those seeking certainty. * - *Evangelical and Catholic traditions—together representing the bulk of global Christianity—are less likely to adopt his framework, since it softens dogma and authority. * - *Likelihood of positive impact: Moderate (around 40–50%) His thought will likely shape progressive clergy, seminary students, and adult education circles in mainline denominations, but is unlikely to move the broader institutional church as a whole. * *2. Progressive Social Movements* - *Opportunities for impact * - *Marshall’s integration of faith, science, ecology, and liberation is exactly the sort of theological grounding that progressive activists often seek but lack. * - *His emphasis on freedom, justice, and ecological democracy dovetails with climate activism, racial justice work, and grassroots democratic movements. * - *Because he wrote accessibly, his works may circulate in networks of faith-based activism, eco-justice movements, and interfaith organizing. * - *Limitations * - *Progressive movements are increasingly secular in their language and may be suspicious of explicitly Christian frameworks, even if the theology is open and non-dogmatic. * - *His influence may be strongest in small, intentional communities and networks (like Realistic Living or eco-spiritual collectives) rather than in mass movements. * - *Likelihood of positive impact: Moderate-to-High (around 55–65%) His work is well positioned to inspire progressive religious activists, eco-theologians, and interfaith educators. While unlikely to transform mass secular movements, it could deeply shape pockets of committed leaders. * *3. Where his greatest impact may lie* - *Seminary and adult theological education — providing frameworks for open-ended, justice-focused Christianity. * - *Faith-based eco-activism — grounding bioregional and ecological movements in spiritual depth. * - *Small networks and intentional communities — where his writings can be studied and practiced more fully than in hierarchical institutions. * *Overall likelihood of lasting impact: Moderate (about 50–60%)* *Marshall’s legacy will likely endure less as a mainstream theological shift, and more as a seedbed of ideas nourishing small but influential progressive Christian and eco-justice circles. Over time, his concepts (especially “approximate knowing” and freedom as a theological horizon) may filter into broader Christian thought through those networks.* *Would you like me to map out which current networks, seminaries, or movements are most likely to carry his thought forward? That might give a clearer picture of his lasting influence.* *Here’s a clearer map of where Gene Wesley Marshall’s thought—especially his ideas on approximate knowing, social ethics, ecology, and liberation—might resonate most strongly:* *1. Progressive Christian Networks & Organizations* *Progressive Christianity, as a movement, emphasizes interpretive theology, social justice, environmental stewardship, mystery, and inclusivity.* *Marshall’s theology—highlighting curiosity, humility before mystery, orthopraxy (right action over right belief), and ecological awareness—aligns well with these values and could find a natural home among congregations and individuals in networks like Progressive Christianity (the organization).* *Likelihood of adoption: High* *Why: His ideas dovetail with core progressive Christian emphases on metaphorical biblical interpretation, ecological justice, and faith as ethical practice rather than doctrinal purity.* *2. Ecotheology & Eco-Justice Movements* *Theologians increasingly advocate for an ecological reformation within Christianity—integrating science, stewardship, justice, and new ways of relating to creation.* *Marshall’s fusion of theology, science, and activism—particularly through his Realistic Living endeavors—could enrich conversations among eco-theologians, green seminaries, and faith-based environmental organizations.* *Likelihood of adoption: Moderate to High* *Why: His emphasis on ecological awareness, grounded in theological ethics and social responsibility, offers robust material for eco-justice curricula and spiritual formation.* *3. Seminary Classrooms & Theological Education* *Even though Marshall isn’t yet widely cited in academic journals, his book “Approximate Knowing” (2024) deliberately reframes theology toward curiosity, humility, and interpretive practice.* *Seminaries—especially liberal ones exploring progressive theology, eco-justice, or interdisciplinary ethics—could incorporate his language and concepts into courses on public theology, pastoral formation, or contextual theology.* *Likelihood of adoption: Moderate* *Why: His fresh theological vocabulary and activist orientation suit progressive academic environments, though wider institutional uptake may develop gradually.* *4. Intentional Faith-Based Communities & Eco-Spiritual Networks* *Marshall’s hands-on legacy—through Realistic Living, civic engagement, and bioregional ecological projects—positions his ideas to thrive within small, intentional communities that integrate spiritual formation, activism, and ecological practice.* *Likelihood of adoption: High (within these niches)* *Why: These communities value experiential theology and often seek frameworks that clarify the integration of faith, justice, and environment—precisely where Marshall’s work shines.* <https://substack.com/redirect/aa914f35-b5c2-44ed-a364-7cb8876366c5?j=eyJ1Ij…> *Bigger Picture Impact* *While mainstream churches may be slower to adopt his ideas, Marshall’s influence could ripple outward via:* - *Progressive Christian networks influencing clergy, laity, and educators. * - *Eco-theology initiatives shaping green spirituality and social ethics. * - *Seminary dialogues introducing his thought to future religious leaders and scholars. * - *Niche spiritual communities exemplifying his values in lived practice. * *Over time, these conduits may infuse broader Christian discourse with renewed emphasis on mystery, humility, and ecological justice.* *Would you like help identifying specific institutions—such as particular seminaries, eco-justice organizations, or progressive publishing outlets—where his work would be welcomed or could gain traction? I’d be happy to dig further.* *Here’s a curated overview of specific institutions, networks, and initiatives where Gene Wesley Marshall’s theological vision—particularly his emphases on approximate knowing, ecological justice, social liberation, and spiritual humility—would likely find a receptive and fertile home:* *Seminaries Excelling in Progressive, Ecological, or Liberation Theology* *Pacific School of Religion (PSR), Berkeley, CA* - *A longstanding leader in progressive theological education, PSR fosters inclusive ministry, social transformation, and spiritual formation rooted in justice and equity. Their programs include the Master of Theological Studies with environmental theology components, Master of Arts in Social Transformation, and options focused on progressive ministry and activism. * *Garrett-Evangelical Theological Seminary – Center for Ecological Regeneration, Evanston, IL* - *This center integrates eco-theological understanding, earth-based spiritual practices, and social justice, grounded in theological education. It emphasizes bioregional solidarity and interconnection between ecological repair and communal healing. * *Starr King School for the Ministry, Oakland, CA* - *A Unitarian Universalist seminary committed to “Educating to Counter Oppressions (ECO).” While interfaith in nature, it strongly supports progressive spiritual leadership and activist theology that aligns with Marshall’s integration of mystery, liberation, and ecological care. * *Eco-Theological & Faith-Based Environmental Organizations, Creation Justice Ministries* - *A Christian ecumenical initiative offering worship-based resources—sermon starters, Bible studies, liturgical guides—to help churches integrate ecological care into faith communities. * *GreenFaith* - *A global interfaith coalition promoting faith-rooted climate justice through local organizing, divestment campaigns, training, and environmental advocacy. Their values mesh well with Marshall’s vision of theology in connection with justice and Earth care. * *A Rocha* - *An international network of Christian community-based conservation organizations. They combine conservation, research, education, and theology in pursuit of biodiversity care and ecological restoration. * *Evangelical Environmental Network (EEN)* - *Mobilizes evangelical Christians for creation care, combining environmental concerns with justice for vulnerable communities—bridging secular activism and explicit Christian frameworks. * *Interfaith Center for Sustainable Development (ICSD)* - *Based in Jerusalem, this organization connects religion with ecology, producing ecological commentaries of scripture (Eco Bible), trainings for clergy (EcoPreacher), interfaith conferences, and promoting faith-based sustainability globally. * *Yale Forum on Religion and Ecology* - *A transdisciplinary project promoting scholarly engagement and teaching at the intersection of religion and ecological justice. Offers publications, courses (e.g., on religious responses to ecology), and convenings that connect theology with environmental ethics. * *Faith in Place* *(Chicago & Midwest)* - *A nonprofit coordinating religious leaders in environmental sustainability projects—such as clean energy, sustainable food systems, and inter-congregational cooperation—rooted in ecological justice.* So What? So where does this all leave me, and perhaps you as well? My Big Takeaway is that what it means to be a Theologian is evolving just like spirituality, formal religions, and specifically Christianity. In both Joseph Mathews’s and my father’s case, I think one of their big contributions to the field of theology is to extend it beyond “theoretical theology” to *“practical theology.”* Joseph Mathews demonstrated that in the turn to the world in the early 1970s in moving the mission beyond the Christian work of the Ecumenical Institute to the more secular work of the Institute of Cultural Affairs, which included hundreds of Bicentennial Town Meetings in the United States in 1976 and scores of human and rural development projects around the world in the 1970s. The LENS course, using many of the group methodologies honed by Order: Ecumenical and Ecumenical Institute staff, helped commercial businesses forge new more human ways of operating, and continues to exist today in the Change Methods work of the Institute of Cultural Affairs on a global scale. My father was the dean of The Academy, an eight-week training program in the late 1960s and early 1970s that included almost all of the religious and secular curriculum from that era. I guess in that sense, it was his mini academic career. In my opinion, Dad was not as charismatic in his speaking and teaching style as his mentor, but he tried his best to emulate Joe. But Dad distinguished himself as a theoretical and practical theologian after Joe died in 1977 for the next 48 years in the fourteen books he wrote. In a future Substack article, I will list Dad’s books and give my summary of each one in case you are interested in finding out more about his work. I will also provide links to Dad’s favorite books by his predecessor theologians, Kierkegaard, Bultmann, Tillich, Bonhoeffer, and H. Richard Niebuhr. Meanwhile, here are links to the books referenced in this article, and to the biography written about Joseph Mathews by his brother James Mathews, who was a Bishop in the United Methodist Church in the United States. *Bending History: Selected Talks of Joseph W. Mathews <https://substack.com/redirect/5e8ca942-abdf-48ea-b0c6-65e149a74624?j=eyJ1Ij…>*, edited by John L. Epps *Brother Joe: A 20th Century Apostle <https://substack.com/redirect/7631c021-981b-4ea6-8765-60a5484abd4b?j=eyJ1Ij…>*, by James K. Mathews *The Thinking Christian: 23 Pathways to Awareness <https://substack.com/redirect/48b036b5-8dec-4791-bc99-36927e6116a7?j=eyJ1Ij…>*, by Gene W. Marshall *Approximate Knowing: The End of Our Dogmatic View of Religion <https://substack.com/redirect/650180ac-6929-472b-8784-f1f775f50976?j=eyJ1Ij…>, by Gene W. Marshall* *So Be Free: Pastoral Discourses on Freedom <https://substack.com/redirect/26a7cc16-f35d-46b1-b716-a43c1c7d2f7b?j=eyJ1Ij…>*, by Gene W. Marshall *Radical Gifts: Living the Full Christian Life in Troubled Times <https://substack.com/redirect/ee1b08fa-fd56-46c5-84a7-5ffc3ab300cf?j=eyJ1Ij…>*, by Gene W. Marshall *The Enigma of Consciousness <https://substack.com/redirect/5583e75c-ed68-45bf-8d2b-b54a59fb964c?j=eyJ1Ij…>*, by Gene W. Marshall *From Empire to Eco-Democracy <https://substack.com/redirect/d9ee8c6c-1cee-4f13-8685-2216ac26d1df?j=eyJ1Ij…>*, by Gene W. Marshall, Ben Ball, Marsha Buck, Ken Kreutziger, and Alan Richard *The Making of Religious Radical: a Memoir <https://substack.com/redirect/a78ca8c6-3168-4f0f-9b18-50dc4f0decb5?j=eyJ1Ij…>*, NEW by Gene W. Marshall *Iron Boy: Searching for Freedom Inside a Family Religious Order <https://substack.com/redirect/5b4b7428-e008-42f2-b6e6-b219237029d7?j=eyJ1Ij…>*, NEW by David Marshall Growing up in the Order, we used to say, “I claim the promise…” before wishing for something positive. I therefore “claim the promise” that you and I, if we believe in a theology, that we PRACTICE it in our daily and weekly lives. Grace, Peace, & Love, David Paul Marshall Share <https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=4924521&post_id=172824418…> Like <https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=4924521&post_id=172824418…> Comment <https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=4924521&post_id=172824418…> Restack <https://substack.com/redirect/2/eyJlIjoiaHR0cHM6Ly9vcGVuLnN1YnN0YWNrLmNvbS9…> © 2025 David Marshall 548 Market Street PMB 72296, San Francisco, CA 94104 Unsubscribe <https://substack.com/redirect/2/eyJlIjoiaHR0cHM6Ly9tYXJzaGFsbGJvb2tzLnN1YnN…> [image: Start writing] <https://substack.com/redirect/2/eyJlIjoiaHR0cHM6Ly9zdWJzdGFjay5jb20vc2lnbnV…>

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Marshall Islands - link to article. Disregard previous.
by Sunny Walker 03 Sep '25

03 Sep '25

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/02/marshall-islands-picks-up-pie… *Sunny Walker * *She/her/hers* *On **Arapaho, Cheyenne, Núu-agha-tʉvʉ-pʉ̱ (Ute), and Očeti Šakówiŋ (Sioux) tribal land* Certified Facilitator (Also Certified ToP Facilitator) ToP Methods Mentor Trainer - Upcoming Courses <https://www.top-training.net/w/> Virtual Facilitation Collaborative Senior Facilitator sunny.sunwalker(a)gmail.com 303-587-3017 For diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging inquiries: sunny(a)diversityinnovators.com www.diversityinnovators.com For virtual facilitation inquiries: sunny(a)virtualfacilitationcollaborative.com www.virtualfacilitationcollaborative.com

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Marshall Islands (share button didn't work, so there may be a lot of white space before the article that I couldn't remove)
by Sunny Walker 02 Sep '25

02 Sep '25

Marshall Islands picks up the pieces after fire destroys its ‘heart of democracy’ The slow process to rebuild parliament, the Nitijela, begins as the Pacific nation confronts the loss of a vital cultural landmark Jon Letman <https://www.theguardian.com/profile/jon-letman> Mon 1 Sep 2025 20.50 EDT In Majuro, a day after fire ravaged the national parliament, the full devastation became clear. The building known as Nitijela <https://rmiparliament.org/cms/> had been reduced to a blackened shell, littered with debris. Among the objects lost to the fire were archive documents, original journal transcripts of daily sessions going back decades, and artworks that once adorned the walls. Flames had engulfed the building by the time the only functioning fire engine in the Marshall Islands arrived to fight the blaze on 26 August <https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/aug/26/marshall-islands-parliament-f…>. Firefighters were joined by residents and government officials, furiously trying to extinguish the flames and salvage any hard drives storing digital documents, including a copy of the country’s constitution <https://www.un.int/marshallislands/marshallislands/country-facts>. Yet despite their efforts, the building could not be saved. Now the people of the Marshall Islands <https://www.theguardian.com/world/marshall-islands> are confronting a loss of a landmark that holds deep cultural significance. “It was the heart of our democracy – a place where the Marshallese voice was heard, our sovereignty upheld, our future shaped,” says the minister of foreign affairs and trade, Kalani Kaneko. “The Marshall Islands has overcome many trials. This tragedy will not define us. Our collective response and resilience in the face of it will demonstrate our strength.” [image: The entrance to the cabinet floor in the parliament building after the fire]View image in fullscreen <https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/02/marshall-islands-picks-up-pie…> The entrance to the cabinet floor in the parliament building after the fire. Photograph: Chewy C Lin/The Guardian Clearing the parliament’s ruins is expected to begin almost immediately, according to local media, and the rebuild could take up to a year. President Hilda Heine said the “foundation of our democratic spirit and cultural strength remains firm and unshaken”. [image: A Golden West explosive ordnance disposal technician carrying a Japanese projectile for destruction on Taroa Island in September 2023] How hidden WW2 bombs across the Pacific are found and destroyed, decades after war Read more <https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/05/ww2-hidden-bombs-clearing-dis…> Located in central Majuro, the parliament was connected by a corridor to the former capitol complex, which had been slated for rebuilding. The complex had been unoccupied for more than 10 years until its demolition last spring. Both buildings were 32 years old. Reconstruction of a new capitol complex will be delayed as the government works to first rebuild the parliament. Less than a week after the fire, a local construction firm <https://www.piimajuro.com/> brought heavy equipment for demolition to the site. Construction is expected to begin soon after clearing the ruins, and is aimed to be completed by August 2026. In the meantime, parliament will convene next door at the International Conference Centre. Kaneko says the cost of reconstruction is expected to reach millions of dollars but that what was lost cannot be measured in money. He calls the Nitijela the symbol of Marshallese democracy and “the space where the voice of our people shaped our nation’s journey”. The Pacific archipelago lies between Hawaii and Australia and has a population of 42,000, with about half in Majuro. It had previously been colonised by Spain, Germany, Japan and the US. The name Nitijela means “the coming together of those who know” and is based on a proverb once used to describe forums held by *irooj* (chiefs). “The building gave a platform for the people of the Marshall Islands to story their own issues and chart their own course as Marshallese … without filter by colonial powers,” says Desmond Doulatram, a social science instructor at the College of the Marshall Islands. [image: Heavy machinery is used to fight the fire that destroyed the national parliament]View image in fullscreen <https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/02/marshall-islands-picks-up-pie…> Heavy machinery is used to fight the blaze that destroyed the national parliament. Photograph: Chewy C Lin/AP When the Nitijela is in session, key votes, debates and public hearings are broadcast on national radio and livestreamed <https://www.youtube.com/live/lAKyb5mGTQY?si=n4LuaYcyXDtTEwv1&t=4535>, connecting Marshallese communities around the world. Doulatram describes the Nitijela as a “symbol of a reciprocal relation between leaders and the people” where plans are developed and debated, and cultural memory and oral traditions preserved. What the Marshall Islands needs most now, Kaneko says, is “solidarity and support from our friends and partners”, including technical expertise, financial assistance, and guidance in design and preservation. [image: Locals watch as fire destroys the Nitijela parliament building in Majuro]View image in fullscreen <https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/02/marshall-islands-picks-up-pie…> Locals watch as fire ravages the Nitijela building in Majuro. Photograph: Chewy C Lin/AP Under a recently renegotiated compact of free association <https://www.state.gov/marshall_islands-24-501.2> with the United States, the Marshall Islands may be eligible <https://www.fema.gov/hi/locations/republic%20of%20the%20marshall%20islands> to receive disaster assistance from the Federal Emergency Management Agency. Fema, which the Trump administration has threatened with drastic cuts <https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/aug/25/fema-trump-hurricane-katrina>, did not respond to requests for comment. Kitlang Kabua, a senator representing Kwajalein Atoll, tells the Guardian: “Although our hearts are heavy … I believe that Nitijela is still alive and strong through the survival of our people. So long as we remain and exist, we will always have Nitijela. “We will build another Nitijela chamber that honours the legacy of our forefathers, our culture and the Marshallese of today and tomorrow.” *Sunny Walker * *She/her/hers* *On **Arapaho, Cheyenne, Núu-agha-tʉvʉ-pʉ̱ (Ute), and Očeti Šakówiŋ (Sioux) tribal land* Certified Facilitator (Also Certified ToP Facilitator) ToP Methods Mentor Trainer - Upcoming Courses <https://www.top-training.net/w/> Virtual Facilitation Collaborative Senior Facilitator sunny.sunwalker(a)gmail.com 303-587-3017 For diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging inquiries: sunny(a)diversityinnovators.com www.diversityinnovators.com For virtual facilitation inquiries: sunny(a)virtualfacilitationcollaborative.com www.virtualfacilitationcollaborative.com

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Re: [Oe List ...] OE Digest, Vol 159, Issue 15
by zbarley＠earthlink.net 01 Sep '25

01 Sep '25

Sent using myEarthLink On Sun Jun 22 13:22:09 EDT 2025 Paula Philbrook via OE wrote: I think when the replication projects began ‘76 ish, George Walters had the idea to make replicas for each location. George & I were assigned to 5th City at the time. I drove to someplace in Chicago and picked up the statues. They were then distributed at the next Council. We also had lapel pens made at some point. The iron man in Fifth City was drawn by ??? (Maybe Jean) Lewis. She & her husband were in Order Community in the west side in mid/late 60’s. I have a statue in my living room. It is the one my Dad had & we took it to the shop for the guy make the copies. One of my daughter’s first tattoo was the Iron Man perhaps Iron we need a gender neutral name. Paula Personal Mission Statement: I nurture love, peace & harmony in every situation for my caring family, disempowered communities, and our precious planet. On Sun, Jun 22, 2025 at 11:29 AM David Marshall via OE < oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net) > wrote: > Where’s IM Waldo? These mini Iron Man statues may be artifacts. If only one was made per Religious House, then there were only 50-100 of them in circulation then, and surely fewer now. I wonder how my dad got a hold of the one from the Wichita RH. He didn’t have any connection to that house, but since we joined the Order in Evanston in 1962 from Olathe, Kansas, not far from Wichita, it seems oddly appropriate for this one to have landed with the Marshall clan. Collectors items from an OE bygone era. 😊 > > Sent from my iPhone > David Marshall > > > > (http://www.marshallbooks.net)> www.marshallbooks.net (http://www.marshallbooks.net) > > > > > > > On Jun 22, 2025, at 9:06 AM, Sunny Walker via OE < > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Re the religious house iron men statues, I believe I have the Denver one. I never realized the RH name was on it! Now I have to see where it went (it was in my living room until recently when I was redoing a lot of things). So many things, so rich a history we share. I had RS-I in April 1971 and recruited many more in the next several years. > > > > Sunny Walker > > She/her/hers > > On Arapaho, Cheyenne, Núu-agha-tʉvʉ-pʉ̱ (Ute), and Očeti Šakówiŋ (Sioux) tribal land > > > > Certified Facilitator (Also Certified ToP Facilitator) > > ToP Methods Mentor Trainer - Upcoming Courses (https://www.top-training.net/w/) > > Virtual Facilitation Collaborative Senior Facilitator > > > > > > > > (mailto:sunny.sunwalker@gmail.com)> > sunny.sunwalker(a)gmail.com (mailto:sunny.sunwalker@gmail.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > (tel:3035873017)> > 303-587-3017 (tel:3035873017) > > > > > > > > For diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging inquiries: > > > > > > > > (mailto:sunny@diversityinnovators.com)> > sunny(a)diversityinnovators.com (mailto:sunny@diversityinnovators.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > (http://www.diversityinnovators.com)> > www.diversityinnovators.com (http://www.diversityinnovators.com) > > > > > > > > For virtual facilitation inquiries: > > > > > > > > (mailto:sunny@virtualfacilitationcollaborative.com)> > sunny(a)virtualfacilitationcollaborative.com (mailto:sunny@virtualfacilitationcollaborative.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > (http://www.virtualfacilitationcollaborative.com)> > www.virtualfacilitationcollaborative.com (http://www.virtualfacilitationcollaborative.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 9:10 AM Cheryl via OE < > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > wrote: > > > I learned the key elements of RS-1 in the Leadership Options program developed by George & (Keith) Elise Packard, Jan Ames and others in the early 90's. I later became part of the LO training team, with the hope of expanding its locations, which we found difficult to do. > > > > > > Later on, John Cock led an effort with others to refine and redevelop the RS-I into the Profound Journey Dialogue. I became part of that team also, but it was challenging to market it to a broader audience. I know the new format was taught many times, each in different cities. I know it was taught at least twice in MN. I would need to check on the dates. > > > > > > All Good Wishes, > > > Cheryl Kartes, Mpls, MN > > > > > > > > > > From: OE < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > > oe-bounces(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > > > > on behalf of Debra Harris via OE < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > > oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2025 6:36:58 PM > > > > To: Order Ecumenical Community < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > > oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: Debra Harris < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:quantum1135@yahoo.com)> > > > quantum1135(a)yahoo.com (mailto:quantum1135@yahoo.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] David Marshall's IRON BOY Launches Today > > > > > > > > When was the last RS-1 taught? Did it vary depending on the area? And was it taught in Canada or any other nations? > > > > > > > > Of course the concepts of RS-1 were embedded into ITI and HDTP, as well as the Academy. However, the Turn to the World necessitated a reformulation, to broaden language & context for a variety of cultures & faith traditions- though the fundamental concepts were universal. > > > > > > > > Debra Harris-Watson > > > > Houston > > > > > > > > > > > > On Friday, June 20, 2025 at 08:30:14 PM CDT, < > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > oe-request(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Send OE mailing list submissions to > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > > > > > > > > > > > (http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net)> > > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > > > > > > > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > oe-request(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > > > > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe-owner@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > oe-owner(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe-owner@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > > > > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > > than "Re: Contents of OE digest..." > > > > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > > > 1. Re: David Marshall's IRON BOY Launches Today (David Marshall) > > > 2. Re: David Marshall's IRON BOY Launches Today (Susan Fertig) > > > 3. Re: David Marshall's IRON BOY Launches Today (Debra Harris) > > > 4. Re: David Marshall's IRON BOY Launches Today (Susan Fertig) > > > 5. Re: David Marshall's IRON BOY Launches Today (James Wiegel) > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Message: 1 > > > Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 13:08:33 -0700 > > > From: David Marshall < > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:davidpaulmarshall1956@gmail.com)> > > davidpaulmarshall1956(a)gmail.com (mailto:davidpaulmarshall1956@gmail.com) > > > > > > > > > > To: Order Ecumenical Community < > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > > > > > Cc: James Wiegel < > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:jfwiegel@yahoo.com)> > > jfwiegel(a)yahoo.com (mailto:jfwiegel@yahoo.com) > > > > > > >, Debra Harris > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:quantum1135@yahoo.com)> > > quantum1135(a)yahoo.com (mailto:quantum1135@yahoo.com) > > > > > > >, Order Ecumenical Community > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] David Marshall's IRON BOY Launches Today > > > Message-ID: < > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:08E94D58-27F0-4A53-A4F9-370C0EF94081@gmail.com)> > > 08E94D58-27F0-4A53-A4F9-370C0EF94081(a)gmail.com (mailto:08E94D58-27F0-4A53-A4F9-370C0EF94081@gmail.com) > > > > > > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > URL: < > > > > > > > > > > > > (http://lists.wedgeblade.net/pipermail/oe-wedgeblade.net/attachments/2025062…)> > > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/pipermail/oe-wedgeblade.net/attachments/2025062… > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > Message: 2 > > > Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 21:35:37 +0000 > > > From: Susan Fertig < > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:sfertig@blueskytech.us)> > > sfertig(a)blueskytech.us (mailto:sfertig@blueskytech.us) > > > > > > > > > > To: Order Ecumenical Community < > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] David Marshall's IRON BOY Launches Today > > > Message-ID: > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:BY5PR14MB33011930DA254F638EC8B740CF7CA@BY5PR14MB3301.namprd14.prod.outlook.com)> > > BY5PR14MB33011930DA254F638EC8B740CF7CA(a)BY5PR14MB3301.namprd14.prod.outlook.com (mailto:BY5PR14MB33011930DA254F638EC8B740CF7CA@BY5PR14MB3301.namprd14.prod.outlook.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > > > David, I took my RS-1 the first time in 1971. It was very much still available. > > > > > > Susan > > > > > > Susan Fertig-Dykes > > > > > > And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought . Isaiah 58:11 > > > > > > From: OE < > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > oe-bounces(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > > On Behalf Of David Marshall via OE > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2025 4:09 PM > > > To: Order Ecumenical Community < > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > > > > > Cc: David Marshall < > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:davidpaulmarshall1956@gmail.com)> > > davidpaulmarshall1956(a)gmail.com (mailto:davidpaulmarshall1956@gmail.com) > > > > > > >; Order Ecumenical Community < > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] David Marshall's IRON BOY Launches Today > > > > > > Whoops, that last message about Order Kids? structures was meant for Wesson. As an OE listserv newbie, I?m still trying to navigate. > > > > > > Responding to Debra?s comment, that?s one of the reasons I was compelled to write IRON BOY, to give a first-hand account from a child?s and teenager?s perspective from the beginning. Many friends, family, co-works and history buffs over multiple generations have heard about those early days in the Order, but I suspect much of it was second-, third-, or fourth-hand. It?s like playing Telephone as a kid. By the time the secret sentence whispered in each year gets to the end of the line, it?s a far cry from what the original child said. > > > > > > Another motivator for me: I wondered how many folks who joined the ICA in the 1970s and later ever knew what RS-1 was or could measure its direct or indirect impact for themselves if it was not longer available. Many readers may be surprised that an RS-1 primer is embedded inside IRON BOY for that very reason, albeit from an 11-year-old?s perspective. Many EI/ICA alumni may still ask today how much of RS-1 could be understood by a child or teenager. I?ll attempt to answer that in a listserv post this coming weekend. > > > > > > David, Moraga, CA > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > David Marshall > > > > > > > > > > > > (http://www.marshallbooks.net)> > > www.marshallbooks.net (http://www.marshallbooks.net) > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > (http://www.marshallbooks.net)> > > http://www.marshallbooks.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 19, 2025, at 7:38?PM, Debra Harris via OE < > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > <mailto: > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > ? I ordered it on Kindle and just started reading it- thank you David for your perspective and insights. > > > > > > I encountered and joined the Order in 1984 when I was 26 and often wondered what is was like to grow up in the Order, especially in the earlier years. > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > Debra Harris Watson > > > Houston > > > > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone< > > > > > > > > > > > > (https://mail.onelink.me/107872968?pid=nativeplacement&c=Global_Acquisition_…)> > > https://mail.onelink.me/107872968?pid=nativeplacement&c=Global_Acquisition_… > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, June 19, 2025, 7:26 PM, James Wiegel via OE < > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > <mailto: > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > They weren't very big . . . > > > > > > Jim Wiegel < > > > > > > > > > > > > (http://partnersinparticipation.com/james-wiegel/)> > > http://partnersinparticipation.com/james-wiegel/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > The unknown is what is. And to be frightened of it is what sends everybody scurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, all that. Unknown is what is. Accept that it's unknown, and it's plain sailing. John Lennon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (geo:0,0?q=401+North+Beverly+Way%2C+Tolleson%2C+Arizona+85353)> > > 401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353 (geo:0,0?q=401+North+Beverly+Way%2C+Tolleson%2C+Arizona+85353) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (tel:6233633277)> > > 623-363-3277 (tel:6233633277) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:jfwiegel@yahoo.com)> > > jfwiegel(a)yahoo.com (mailto:jfwiegel@yahoo.com) > > > > > > <mailto: > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:marilyn.oyler@gmail.com)> > > marilyn.oyler(a)gmail.com (mailto:marilyn.oyler@gmail.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (http://www.partnersinparticipation.com)> > > www.partnersinparticipation.com (http://www.partnersinparticipation.com) > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > (http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/)> > > http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, June 19, 2025 at 12:32:46 PM MST, Richard Alton via OE < > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > <mailto: > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I don't remember having an Iron Man statue in the houses I was in.. but it was a long time ago. > > > Dick > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 19, 2025 at 2:29?PM ML Jones via OE < > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > <mailto: > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > Yes David, There was an Iron Man statue in every Religious House. Congratulations on your book. I have ordered it, Mary Laura Jones > > > > > > Mary Laura Jones > > > Grants Resource Development Consultant > > > 53599 Pulver Road (https://www.google.com/maps/search/53599+Pulver+Road+Three+Rivers,+MI+49093…) > > > Three Rivers, MI 49093 (https://www.google.com/maps/search/53599+Pulver+Road+Three+Rivers,+MI+49093…) > > > > > > cell: > > > > > > > > > (tel:7736362022)> > > 773 636-2022 (tel:7736362022) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:mljones2022@gmail.com)> > > mljones2022(a)gmail.com (mailto:mljones2022@gmail.com) > > > > > > <mailto: > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:mljones2022@gmail.com)> > > mljones2022(a)gmail.com (mailto:mljones2022@gmail.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 15, 2025 at 4:01?AM David Marshall via OE < > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > <mailto: > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > Dear Former Order Colleagues & Friends, > > > > > > > > > Sunday ?House Church? Blastoff! (Father?s Day - appropriate launch day since Order fathers loom large in this book) > > > > > > IRON BOY is officially for sale today on Amazon as both a paperback and e-book. > > > > > > The Iron Man statue is still alive and well in Fifth City sixty years later. In 2021, I visited Chicago with my wife, daughter, son, and their partners, and we all went to visit Fifth City and the Iron Man?they for the first time. Attached are some photos, of me in front of the Iron Man with the Program Center in the background where I took part of the Academy, the still-running ?Iron Man Can? Fifth City Preschool, and my old elementary school, now renamed Leif Ericson Scholastic Academy. > > > > > > Also a vintage wintertime Iron Man statue photo that I used for the front cover of IRON BOY. > > > > > > And finally a little artifact from that era I just received. I visited my 93-year old dad Gene and 91-year-old step-mom Joyce in Texas recently, and they gave me this seven-inch-tall metal Iron Man statute that they had picked up along the way from the Wichita Religious House. Did all the Religious Houses have one? > > > > > > When I raise up my hands like the Iron Man, I think of these words from the Order song, ?Free, free, free to decide, what this world is going to be.? We've still got a lot of work to do! > > > > > > Much appreciation for putting up with my 10-week House Church countdown to IRON BOY?s debut. If you read it, or share it with others, please let me know the impact. You can obtain both the paperback and e-book now on Amazon, and through other bookstores soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (https://www.amazon.com/IRON-BOY-Searching-Freedom-Religious/dp/B0FCMMVHDC)> > > https://www.amazon.com/IRON-BOY-Searching-Freedom-Religious/dp/B0FCMMVHDC > > > > > > > > > > > > Grace & Peace, > > > > > > David Marshall, > > > > > > > > > > > > (http://www.marshallbooks.net)> > > www.marshallbooks.net (http://www.marshallbooks.net) > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > (http://www.marshallbooks.net)> > > http://www.marshallbooks.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > OE mailing list > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > <mailto: > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net)> > > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > OE mailing list > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > <mailto: > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net)> > > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Richard H. T. Alton > > > ICA Global Fund > > > United Methodist Net Zero > > > > > > T: > > > > > > > > > (tel:7733447172)> > > 773.344.7172 (tel:7733447172) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:richard.alton@gmail.com)> > > richard.alton(a)gmail.com (mailto:richard.alton@gmail.com) > > > > > > <mailto: > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:richard.alton@gmail.com)> > > richard.alton(a)gmail.com (mailto:richard.alton@gmail.com) > > > > > > > > > > Make Plain the Vision, Habakkuh 2:2 > > > Won't you be my neighbor? > > > _______________________________________________ > > > OE mailing list > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > <mailto: > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net)> > > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > OE mailing list > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > <mailto: > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net)> > > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > OE mailing list > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > <mailto: > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net)> > > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > > > > > > > > >

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Just made this little video and wanted to share it
by Milan Hamilton 27 Aug '25

27 Aug '25

Watched a YouTube Nate Hagens this morning with Stephen Jenkinson, someone who has spent a career sitting with people and their families through the dying process. It brought up the subject of grief as a practice in a culture that is saturated with denying death. Woody Allen said once: "Death isn't so bad. I just don't want to be there when it happens." So here is the link to my YouTube song: "In the Warm Corner." https://youtu.be/63oFEeEKSh0 -- Mellow Milan Hamilton 80 North Center Street Redlands, CA 92373 Phone: (909) 943-1667 email: mellowmilan2(a)gmail.com

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Saying good bye to Gene and Larry and Joy.
by Isobel and Jim Bishop 26 Aug '25

26 Aug '25

Dear friends, Thank you Michael for posting the Knowing The Unknowable. I found it very comforting, in it's own way. I was happy to see my friends, Gene, Brian and Jack once more too. I wrote to Herman earlier to express my condolences over the death of Joy. She was a beautiful young woman and I felt I came to know her even though I don’t remember actually working with her. I wrote to Gene when he retired from Realistic Living in early January this year. Jim and I have been subscribers for umpteen years, I forget how long now. I remember Gene so well here in Australia, when he came down to teach the Academy here in a north west suburb of Sydney. He was much loved as a spirit person and managed to straddle the no longer and the not yet very creatively. I grieve his passing on, yet know he is resting and has left a legacy of good thoughts in all his writings. The book David has written has been a blessing to me, and gave so many insights into Gene as a human being. I was very fond of Gene. What a gift David has given us. My family are all reading David’s book. For Larry, I would like to say that over the years we corresponded on Facebook- what a beautiful human being he was as he grew in inner silence and stillness. I was with Dianne Greenwald at the Local Community Convocation in Atlanta- the LCC was held in a classroom in a School in a poor part of Atlanta. I have often thought of the joy of that occasion, as I watched the all black participants wrestling with the contradictions in the workshop. I had never seen such righteous anger and passion as the group almost came to fisticuffs over stating what they all wanted to say about the contradictions. I remember on the flight back to Chicago Larry was at times very quiet, and then he would burst into laughter. Dear Milan, I so much enjoyed your poem, thank you. It is now almost 21 months since Jim died. I am walking daily with grief, and yet lately I have had the most extraordinary experiences of Jim being present in my dreams, dressed as he always was, and talking to me, to encourage me. I have had a strength and felt a deep purpose to live life abundantly. My three adult family and 5 grandchildren have been a constant presence and each one gifts me with their own gift. After the years of separation and deep trauma mentioned by others in previous posts, I am truly grateful to God or Being or the Unknowable. I pray every day for you all, and for your country. It seems Australia is growing up and turning in a different direction from our long held dependence on your country. Our Prime Minister is forging a more independent alignment with different countries, and it is an important time to be an observer! With my love and sent with peace in my heart and grace that we all will continue to journey on, while we have breath. Isobel Bishop Isobel Bishop isobeljimbish(a)optusnet.com.au

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Fwd: [co-wy-oi] Fwd: TUESDAY: Join Our 7-Day Ceremony to Honor Dr. Larry Ward
by Dianne Greenwald 25 Aug '25

25 Aug '25

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On the Subject of Death and Dying
by Milan Hamilton 23 Aug '25

23 Aug '25

We watched a podcast last weekend by our "climate mentor" Nate Hagens interviewing Stephen Jenkinson, author of Die Wise: A manifesto for Sanity and Soul (2015), who quipped during the conversation "Yeah, everybody knows that somebody else is dying." The discussion centered on our culture's baked in way of (not) dealing seriously with death and grief as deep experience (different from loss of someone or something and moving on). This of course brought up our history in the Order: Ecumenical. Then to be smacked up against THREE of US making that transition in mystery in the same week! Will our grieving be able to honor them? Will our grieving for the earth and her beings be up to the task. Or will we just be sorry for the loss of them and move on? I offer the following poem from our common library on the subject of death and dying, and one I wrote in response to the quote I mentioned. dying is fine)but Death <https://allpoetry.com/dying-is-fine)but-Death> e. e. cummings, 9written 1931, published 19350 dying is fine)but Death ?o baby i wouldn't like Death if Death were good:for when(instead of stopping to think)you begin to feel of it,dying 's miraculous why?be cause dying is perfectly natural;perfectly putting it mildly lively(but Death is strictly scientific & artificial & evil & legal) we thank thee god almighty for dying (forgive us,o life!the sin of Death “I’m not afraid of death; I just don’t want to be there when it happens.” – Woody Allen *Everybody Knows* “Everybody knows that everybody else is dying.” – Stephen Jenkinson *Written after listening to Leonard Cohen’s 1988 release he wrote with Sharon Robinson* Everybody knows That everybody else is dying Everybody knows That the planet is frying Everybody knows That everybody else ain’t trying Everybody knows The grim reaper is smiling Everybody knows That there is no buy-in Everybody knows That everybody else is lying Everybody knows That somebody’s crying Everybody knows There’s no use in sighing Everybody knows That *EVERY-BODY ELSE* is dying Everybody knows Everybody knows Everybody knows Everybody knows Everybody knows Everybody knows . . . Milan Hamilton August 19, 2025 Here is a link to the poem put to music and published on my YouTube channel as part of my offering to our grieving and honoring process: https://youtu.be/mbW87WBsObY -- Mellow Milan Hamilton 80 North Center Street Redlands, CA 92373 Phone: (909) 943-1667 email: mellowmilan2(a)gmail.com

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Gene Wesley Marshall Passing - Re: Fwd: The Ben Ball Letter on behalf of GWM and all of us.
by David Marshall 22 Aug '25

22 Aug '25

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