September 2012 - Dialogue - lists.wedgeblade.net

the new ICA
by Terry Bergdall 08 Oct '12

08 Oct '12

The subject line, "the old Order passing away," has been grabbing my attention for several days now as I open my email. While that is certainly a statement of fact in regard to our EI/OE/ICA community, it is far from being the whole story. During the past academic year, September-May 2012, ICA-USA had 200+ university students engaged in preparation field work for the city-wide share fair, "Accelerate 77." Then, for ten weeks during the summer, we were rocked daily with 40 interns passionately "bending history" as they completed the work. Their presence has been living proof of our 50th Anniversary slogan, "Midway in a Century of Care." The following link will give you a glimpse at what I'm talking about. You'll see Seva Gandhi, a full-time staff person of ICA-USA and a current member of the ICA-International Board of Directors, and Dylan Amlin, one of the summer interns, being interviewed about the "Sharing Approaches That Work" event on September 15: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNtJle4YfH0&feature=bf_prev&list=UUdS0glKdGe… All is good, all is received, that past is approved, the future is open. Take care, Terry

6 5

Carol Pierce's death
by David M Dunn 07 Oct '12

07 Oct '12

Mary Laura asked that her note about Carol's death be sent again to ensure the most inclusive outreach: Carol Pierce passed away a little before noon [Thursday, September 20, 2012] of cardio-pulmonary complications. Aimee Hilliard and Mary Laura Jones were with Carol the entire morning. Carol enjoyed the Accelerate 77 event on Saturday and loved keeping in touch with many of you and keeping track of your lives and activities. There will be a Memorial Service at the ICA GreenRise Center building on a weekend in September or October. I will post the time and date as soon as the family decides the date. Carol will be deeply missed. She was a wise and courageous mentor to many of us. I will miss her wisdom, her humor, her gracious attitude and her demonstration of living a great life in the midst of physical adversity. Mary Laura -- Mary Laura Jones Grants Resource Development Consultant 1454 W. Fargo Avenue Chicago, IL 60626 cell: 773 636-2022 mljones2022(a)gmail.com via David Dunn

10 9

NASA software developer moves on ...
by Tim Wegner 01 Oct '12

01 Oct '12

Yesterday I turned in my badges at the United Space Alliance. My NASA career started when Susan and I were re-assigned from Egypt to Houston. The only thing I knew about the Space Shuttle was what I had read in Time magazines bought on the streets in Cairo. When we arrived at the Houston House, Susan stayed "in house" and I was assigned to work. Larry Henschen helped me arrange an interview with McDonnell Douglas, a NASA contractor. I had never programmed a computer and had no qualification other than a Master's degree in mathematics and an "all-but-thesis" not-quite-a-PhD. In retrospect, those were great credentials, since the state of computer programming when I was in college was using punch cards. When I was working programming NASA's first Unix computers, I remember thinking "I wish I had studied Unix in college" - then realizing that Unix didn't exist when I was in college! But the principles and laws of mathematics and physics I learned in the late 60's have stood up very well. My career has been spent in the abstract world of mathematical models of gravity, drag, solar pressure, and accelerations - space, the final frontier. Hard to beat that. I missed the first four shuttle flights but arrived in time for STS-5. My first project was an analysis of the shuttle drag model. My supervisors weren't watching closely, so I learned FORTRAN on a UNISYS mainframe and implemented my results in a program called HOPE. (There was another program called LOVE, but not one called FAITH.) Shortly thereafter I was re-assigned as a programmer, and remained a software developer (and software project manager) for my whole career, which extended more then a year past the last Shuttle flight in July 2011. I ended up working for various NASA contractors for a bit over 30 years. Shortly after I started at NASA, Larry Henschen and I were instrumental in helping Lynn Oden, another Houston House order member, in also getting a job. For a few years Lynn and I commutred together. Lynn retired a few years ago, having had a fine career as a Shuttle Navigation Flight Controller. Susan and I never "left" the Houston House; it melted away around us as the Order transitioned away from corporate living. Conna Wilkinson was the last one to leave when she moved back to Oklahoma. So Susan and I turned out the lights of the Houston House and got an apartment, and later bought a house. I am grateful today for all the experiences we had assigned to San Franscisco, San Jose, Melbourne, Adelaide, Bayad, and finally Houston. Susan and I arrived in Houston with no assets but no debts in our mid-thirties, and are now both retired. We still have no debts, but now we have a few assets. I amazed that that was possible! I am still working with a small group of your colleagues keeping the wedgeblade.net glue connecting our far flung community alive. Retirement is, of course, just another "assignment" to new challenges. Tim Wegner

14 15

50th Anniversary
by Terry Bergdall 01 Oct '12

01 Oct '12

Last week was a time for major events in Chicago connected with ICA's 50th Anniversary. One was more external while the other was more internal. On Saturday, September 15, ICA-USA was the organizing sponsor for the "Accelerate 77" Share Fair. This event has dramatically re-positioned us for the sake of expanding our national programs. Several colleagues from across the country were present. If you would like to see some photos and video, click on the following link: http://ica.site-ym.com/news/news.asp?id=103496 Two days before, we had an unveiling of the an art piece which will serve hang at 4750 for the next 50 years. The artist, Gina Alicea, named the completed piece "Ocean of Devotion." You can view her description about the work on the following link: * * http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/25387580 The work consists of more than a thousand pieces of cloth. On each appears written information that originated from one of three sources. First, about 350 pieces name deceased staff members and colleagues who worked at one time or another with EI/OE/ICA during the past 50 years. Others identify important past programs and projects --- RS-1, the Academy, and 24 Human Development Projects, etc. Second, several pieces highlight current programs and supporters, e.g., Technology of Participation (ToP), Accelerate 77 and its advisory committee, names of donors, etc. Third, 600+ pieces were created during fifty events that occurred across the country and around the world to mark the 50th Anniversary. Participants at these events wrote statements on strips of cloth to express their hopes and dreams, or, as we like to say, "claim a promise," for the next fifty years. The piece therefore includes symbolism of ICA's past, present, and future. It has been a full week. I am particularly grateful that Carol Pierce joined us at the Share Fair and celebrated our 50th Anniversary just a few days before she passed. Terry Bergdall

8 8

An Amazing Two Days at ICA Chicago-Telling Our Story & The Global Archives
by Ellie Stock 30 Sep '12

30 Sep '12

Thanks, Herman for your reflection and forwarding the accessions chart and for all the folks working on the archives. Ellie elliestock(a)aol.com -----Original Message----- From: Herman Greene <hfgreene(a)mindspring.com> To: 'Order Ecumenical Community' <oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Sun, Sep 30, 2012 5:44 pm Subject: [Oe List ...] An Amazing Two Days at ICA Chicago-Telling Our Story & The Global Archives In the below I meant a memory that goesback 40-45 years, not 50-55 years and I have corrected it. From: Herman Greene[mailto:hfgreene@mindspring.com] Sent: Sunday, September 30, 20126:40 PM To: 'Order Ecumenical Community' Subject: An Amazing Two Days at ICA Chicago-Telling OurStory & The Global Archives I spent what for me were an amazing two days in Chicago last Thursday andFriday. I went because Jack and Judy Gilles were working on the Global Archivesand were going to leave this morning, September 30. It was the only time Icould get to see them. I am finding a yearning to tell our story and bring some ofit forward. More particularly I miss working with people who were formed out ofthe same fire as I was. I work with activists, truly “Those WhoCare,” but something is missing for me. It’s primarily an interioraspect—that “die on the march” aspect, that “live themystery” aspect, that “the past is approved and the future is open(to be created)” aspect, that “we can get anything down that isnecessary” aspect, that “we can drop everything and focus . . . andsacrifice” aspect,” that “we can leave all our possessionsbehind” if need be aspect. One could argue that the Marines also create this kind ofinterior steel and discipline, but it is different. (Actually the Marines mightexcel in honor of country and even willingness to die, but it is stilldifferent.) I have only experienced this in the Order. I know this hasmade me much of what I am and I have a yearning to pass it on to others, especiallyas I realize my own age, 67, and see so many colleagues passing away. So while a part of me thinks its silly for grownups to befiling all the town meeting 76 event folders (and all the work that goes intothat), another part of me also claws back to recover that past . . . for thefuture. What we were as the Order has passed away (I mean in termsof being able to re-create it as it was again), and all of those magnificentmoments and events we created have passed away. Yet there is an echo in thehallway that will not stop. I will go into this more later, but what past it is that Iwant to pass on is difficult to grasp. Is it the Order, RSI, EI, ICA, EI and ICA, all beforeJoe died (or in my case before 1975 when I left the Order), all up to todayincluding the recent history of ICA?I have some ideas, but they are not important for this email. All that’simportant now is that I was drawn back to Chicagoto discuss, primarily with Jack, how the spirit transformation part of who wewere then (and inside are now) can be transmitted to the future as we whoexperienced this grow older and older and pass away. The “we” I am talking about is those of us whocarry a memory back of 40-45 years (other may have adifferent time span) when it seems to me the really creative breakthroughsoccurred. I’m at the younger end of those who experienced that as adults(I was 21 when I joined the Order in 1967). Now some may have joined in 1972 orlater and still have “gotten it,” but what I am talking about issomething that was gotten or it was not, back then. So we are a dying cohort and the question has arisen for mewhether there is something we still need to do together? My answer is I thinkthat if there is something that we still need to do together it is to transmitthat legacy as a living legacy for present and future generations. Part of thisis transmitting facts, part the interior narrative, but most of all it istransmitting the timeless spiritual reality we came to know and which hasshaped our lives but this is not easy because it is not a simple thing.It’s much more than just coming out of an RS-1, or any other short even,inspired I had many important moments of understanding this past weekin Chicago and felt tremendous gratitude for what Marge Philbrook andcolleagues have done on the archives, and for the work Jack has done inthinking through how this can be a living legacy. I In brief Jack and those who workshopped with him, realizedthat its not just a matter of preserving the past by putting facts in filecabinets and waiting for someone to want it, but it is giving people a way ofunderstanding what’s in the collection (Jack uses the term“curation” like a museum curator) and applying that material to thecutting edge issues of our time. What I especially appreciated though was theattached chart in three formats, because it gave me a way to grasp the entiretyof what it is that we were/are/may need in some fashion to pass on. In a certain sense the attached chart overwhelms me becauseI thought there were a few key things like “contextual ethics” andthe RS-1 dynamic and a few other things that might “really need tobe” passed on . . . just a few key things. But now I see it was“all of it”—a giant spiritual event and happening that unfoldedover many years and took many forms all of which were a single event. Torecreate this would require thousands of people in summer assemblies and a neworder and that is not going to happen. Yet I think there is something we can doand need to do and which no one else can do. So, in conclusion, I believe there is something we stillneed to do together and that is to pass on a living legacy. By distinguishinglegacy from living legacy I meant this: “Legacy” is preserving thepast for its own sake. “Living legacy” is recovering the past sothat it might continue to transform the future. The attached Accessions chart is just a beginning. I knowthat Jack would like to receive your suggestions. More soon, Herman _____________________________________________ Herman Greene 2516 Winningham Drive Chapel Hill, NC 27516 919-929-4116 (h) 919-624-0579 (c) 919-942-4358 (f) Skype: hgreene-nc hfgreene(a)mindspring.com _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE(a)lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net

1 0

Re: [Dialogue] The old Order passing away
by Del Morrill 27 Sep '12

27 Sep '12

A great story about Ellery, Pat. I've had a few clients who came to try to recover an earlier language they've learned. Of course, if one has never learned French, they are unlikely to recall it. But if you've learned it, it's still there somewhere within. It may be childlike if learned only as a child, but from there, can be recalled and developed quickly into mature vocabulary and use. I've contended, ever since I became a hypnotherapist, that events, lost items, etc. can be recovered from one's "memory bank" much more easily when one is relaxed. I believe that witnesses would remember far more if, instead of the interrogation style they are usually subjected to, they were asked to close their eyes, take 3 long, deep breaths and let themselves sink into their chair, allowing themselves to speak of whatever comes into their mind WITHOUT interruption. Further questions can, then, come after that. Some people specialize in hypnotic forensics for this reason. Best always, Del Del Hunter Morrill, M.S., N.B.C.C.H. Personal Guide & Hypnotherapist, Teacher, Lecturer And Author of the GREAT ESCAPES Script Volumes TRANSITIONS, a Center for Personal Guidance & Hypnosis And home of NEW BEGINNINGS PUBLISHING 3217 North Mason Avenue, Tacoma Washington 98407 USA Phone (253) 383-5757; <http://www.hypnocenter.com/> www.hypnocenter.com There can be nothing to frighten you if you refuse to be afraid. (Mahatma Gandhi) _____ From: dialogue-bounces(a)lists.wedgeblade.net [mailto:dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of DOUGLAS DRUCKENMILLER Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 6:36 PM To: dialogue(a)lists.wedgeblade.net; oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net Subject: Re: [Dialogue] The old Order passing away I remember Ellery's talking about having lived in the Philippines as a high school girl. (Her dad was a missionary and they were evacuated when WWII broke out.) When she was assigned to Manila, she thought the Tagalog language she had been fluent in would come back to her fairly easily. She was very frustrated to find that it was gone and not coming back. About 6 months in to her assignment, she had been doing development in Manila and was exhausted. She got on the bus to go home and wanted nothing much more than a good nap. But the women just behind her would not let that happen. They kept yammering away about the most stupid and trivial things: their kids and their squabbles, the troubles in their marriages, and other nonsense. Ellery was furious; why couldn't these women shut up and let her sleep? Suddenly, she realized that the women were speaking Tagalog and she was understanding every word. She was so tired that she had lost all her inhibitions and the Tagalog that lay just beneath her conscious mind came out. So from then on, she both understood and spoke Tagalog fluently. She had a great time telling this story on herself. Pat _____ From: sunwalker(a)comcast.net To: dialogue(a)lists.wedgeblade.net; oe(a)lists.wedgeblade.net Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 11:49:46 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] The old Order passing away First, a reflection on Ellery - as a young and inexperienced Global Prior, Ellery was one of the ones who was gracious enough to let me learn from my mistakes without rancor and yet with continued nourishing support. Just her face was a human support mechanism. She spiritually nourished me and we rarely even spoke. And with mortality on my mind as so many saints are called home, knowing you have gone with God, I will let go a bit of the anticipation of my own return. For Carol, while there are many, many memories: one that popped to the top was the time we were at the IERD in Delhi and had boarded the VERY tiny elevator on the top floor (about the 22nd as I recall) of the hotel where we were housed. We pushed the button for the ground floor and about a third of the way down, the elevator shuddered to a stop and the door opened.on a brick wall. Well, I was a little claustrophobic and unaware that Carol was extremely claustrophobic. That hour waiting to be rescued (it could have been 15 minutes, but seemed like SEVERAL hours) was revealing of the wondrous woman of steel (Superman move over) who kept us breathing and laughing to avoid injuring ourselves in the mad panic of fear that sets in when you MUST get OUT and you cannot. Clearly our circumstances were not our problem. While in "Heaven," do a few cartwheels for me, my dear, as I know we both would enjoy them. Sunny Sunny Walker SunWalker Enterprises 303-587-3017 (cell) 303-671-0704 (home/office) sunwalker(a)comcast.net Aurora, CO No mattter how far you've gone down the wrong road, turn back. ~ Turkish Proverb _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue(a)lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net

2 1

9/27/12, Spong: An Open Letter to Ross Douthat, New York Times Columnist
by Ellie Stock 27 Sep '12

27 Sep '12

HOMEPAGE MY PROFILE ESSAY ARCHIVE MESSAGE BOARDS CALENDAR An Open Letter to Ross Douthat, New York Times Columnist Dear Ross, A few weeks ago in an op-ed piece of the Sunday New York Times, you began your regular column with these words, “In 1998, John Shelby Spong, then the reliably controversial Bishop of Newark, published a book entitled, “Why Christianity Must Change or Die.” Spong was a uniquely radical figure – during his career, he dismissed almost every element of traditional Christian faith as so much superstition – but most recent leaders of the Episcopal Church have shared his premise. Thus their church has spent the last decade changing and then changing some more from a sedate pillar of WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant) establishment into one of the most self-consciously progressive bodies in the United States. As a result, the Episcopal Church looks roughly how Roman Catholicism would look if Pope Benedict suddenly adopted every reform ever urged on the Vatican by liberal pundits and theologians.” I was quite honored that you gave me the credit that you did for influencing the history of my own church as well as yours. I was also intrigued by the image of Pope Benedict XVI holding back the tide of liberal reform in Roman Catholicism. Your column caused me to think of His Holiness standing on the shore trying to defend the land from the incoming tide. I also appreciate having my books referred to in a widely-read, highly-respected medium like the New York Times. As a direct result of your column, I have had interviews with other journalists from as far away as Poland. I want to express my thanks to you for opening those opportunities to me. But, Ross, your column was profoundly uninformed about the developments in both biblical and theological scholarship over at least the last two hundred years. In a free country, anyone is able to put into the public arena his or her two cents worth on any subject, but if you really want to be part of the modern theological conversation, you do have some responsibility to do some basic research into the subject about which you choose to write. The fact that you so obviously did not do that has left you exposed as being little more than a frightened and uninformed man. You appear to mourn the fact that it is no longer the 13th century, that the world and the church are changing, and that “infallible” truth no longer appears to be infallible. For example, only someone totally out of touch with the tides of history could seriously object to the fact that the Episcopal Church is no longer “a sedate pillar of the WASP establishment.” You seem to regard that as a virtue. I went to that kind of church when I was a child growing up in the Bible Belt of North Carolina. My church taught me that segregation was the will of God; that women were by nature inferior to men; that it was OK to hate other religions, especially the Jews, and that homosexuals were either mentally sick people, who ought to be cured or morally depraved people who ought to be forcibly converted and changed. The interesting thing is that on each of these issues, my church quoted their literal understanding of the Bible to justify those life-distorting prejudices. I suppose they skipped over Jesus’ invitation that says, “Come to me all who labor and are heavy laden.” At that time, we also sang hymns like “Just as I am without one plea, O Lamb of God, I come.” We quoted Jesus’ summary of the law that enjoins us “to Love our neighbors as ourselves” and when Jesus was asked to define the meaning of “neighbor” he is quoted as having responded with the parable of the Good Samaritan, which defines neighbor to include a “half breed, heretical” Samaritan, who was the object of the deepest, prevailing prejudice in first century Judaism So seeking to be true to this Jesus I rejoice that my Episcopal church today in North Carolina has elected a gifted African-American, Michael Curry, to be its bishop; that my church nationally has chosen a multi-talented woman, Katharine Jefferts-Schori, to be our Primate, and that my church has elected and ordained two openly-gay and well qualified bishops, Gene Robinson in New Hampshire and Mary Glasspool in Los Angeles, both of whom live with their partners in faithful committed partnerships. I also am pleased to note that when my church last revised our prayer book in 1979, we asked a panel of rabbis to go over it to assure us that no undetected anti-Semitism lay hidden in its words. My church has also removed all prohibitions in the ordination process based on race, gender or sexual orientation. I celebrate these steps as steps into a new consciousness that refuses to denigrate or to marginalize any child of God on the basis of who he or she is. That says to me not that the church has somehow lost its way, but that it is hearing and engaging the gospel of Jesus Christ in dramatically new and life-giving ways. It is still breaking down barriers and making it clear that so much of what church people once called “sacred tradition” is little more than human sin perfumed by the pious pronouncements of would-be “holy” people. Those who continue to hold what you seem to believe are the “true” patterns of the past are not seeking the “Kingdom of God” nearly so much as they are trying to protect their own power and privilege. That is shamefully revealed to me when I see the leadership of your church, which you seem to see as virtuous, refusing to investigate and purge its culture of child abuse, but eager to launch an investigation of Catholic Nuns, who in the service of their people press for reforms in that male dominated institution. When you charge, as you do, that I have “dismissed almost every element of traditional Christian faith as so much superstition,” you clearly reveal that your passion and fear are running far ahead of your knowledge and understanding. In the 17th century, the Christian Church forced Galileo to recant from his conclusion that the earth was not the center of a three-tiered universe. In 1991, the Vatican issued a formal paper declaring that they now believed that Galileo was correct. In the meantime, we human beings had begun not only to investigate, but even to travel in space. Would it be your preference that the Christian Church spend its time defending the indefensible or that we begin to engage the vast knowledge revolution that marks the modern world? When the Bible was written between 2000 and 3000 years ago anything its various authors did not understand, they defined as a miracle. As human knowledge has expanded, the arena in which miracles are claimed has shrunk to non-existence. The way we have traditionally told the Jesus story still assumes that there was originally a perfect creation from which we have fallen (into sin, that is “original sin”) and because we cannot rescue ourselves from that debilitating fall, God had to mount a rescue operation to “overcome the sin of the world.” This was accomplished, traditional voices assert, by Jesus who in his death somehow “paid the price” or broke the power of sin and thus restored us to our pre-fallen status of perfection that had been God’s original intention. Since death was conceived in the Bible, not as a natural stage in the course of all living things, but as punishment for the “fall,” it has also been said by traditional voices that Jesus broke the “unnatural” power of death at the first Easter. Well, whether you and traditional church leaders like it or not, Ross, a man called Charles Darwin, writing as long ago as 1859, challenged that entire set of presuppositions very successfully. He demonstrated that there was no original perfect creation at the beginning, but an on-going and ever changing process of evolution. Given that fact there could have been no “fall” into “sin’ from a non-existent perfection. In the approximate 3.8 billion years that we believe life has been on this planet earth, we have moved from living single cells to complex, self-conscious living people. We cannot fall from a perfection we have never possessed, we cannot be rescued from a fall that never happened and we cannot be restored to a status that we have never possessed. Death, we now know, is a part of life. It is not punishment for the fall and the death of Jesus on the cross cannot break either the power of death or the power of sin under which the church has asserted that life is lived. We Christians can ignore these realities if we choose and become as irrelevant as traditional religious bodies have become in our generation. I, however, do not see that as a virtue as you seem to do. I think that this “new” knowledge requires that we Christians re-think and re-consider the explanations of our religious past and then re-cast the Jesus experience into language and concepts that do not require that we have to twist our brains into first century pretzels in order to worship God in the 21st century. That is not “dismissing almost every element of traditional Christian faith as so much superstition,” it is engaging our faith and our world in a new way. To press this discussion a bit deeper, Ross, the Virgin Birth is not about biology. If it were, the 18th century discovery that women have an egg cell would render such stories as both inoperative and nonsensical. Resurrection is also not about bodily resuscitation, but about transformation. If you had ever studied Paul, or looked carefully at Mark you might know this. No, Ross, I and others like me are deeply committed to the Christian faith, but we are also committed to escaping the literalistic nonsense of a pre-literate world. What we seek to do is to separate the experience of God in Jesus from the explanation of that experience that was formed in the first century. We seek to preserve that experience from literal absurdity by finding ways to talk about it in language that people living today might be able to hear. This is not some effort to disturb the “faithful,” as you seem to assume, this is the work of a lifetime, the most important task of contemporary Christians. You seem, not only not to know these things, but not even to know that you do not know them. Denial of reality, even in the name of “traditional” Christianity, is never a doorway into the life of the future. My best, ~John Shelby Spong Read the essay online here. Question & Answer Michael Wagner from Promise Keepers writes: Question: It puzzles me that you believe we do not need a savior and that Jesus is not the same as God. You say that the word savior refers to God, but not Jesus till later in the Bible but Jesus is God. The Old Testament tells of the coming of a savior. Scripture says that there is no way to the father except through Jesus, that Jesus' death upon the cross saved us from our sins and gave us the chance to know God. Why do you think that Jesus said while on the cross: "My God, why hast thou forsaken me?” It is because that is when Jesus took on the sin of the world. God cannot look at sin. If you believe that we do not need a savior, then all I can do is pray for you, since you are missing the most important reason why Jesus came to earth. Just because the actual word is not mentioned does not mean that Jesus is not our savior. Of all the words used like man’s salvation and Jesus died for us all points us to see that Jesus dies so we can have a personal relationship with God, so we can have forgiveness of sins. I can go on forever. Psalm 22:27 says that all shall be blessed in Christ Jesus. I pray that God will show you that we do need a savior and that through Jesus we have been given that. I also pray that you are deceived when you say that the Devil does not exist. Even from the very beginning in scripture God warns that the Devil is a roaring lion looking for who he can consume. Jesus is the savior we all need to help us in our daily walk and understand the temptations and to live our lives the way God wills us to. I pray that the Spirit of God will show you the true meaning of what Jesus our Lord and Savior really means. Answer: Dear Michael, I wrestled long before deciding to use your letter in the Q&A section of my column. I sense an obvious sincerity in your words and a concern for me that I appreciate. At the same time, Michael, your letter reveals a serious lack of theological understanding and a very childlike misunderstanding of what the Bible is all about. I have no desire to point this out to you since it is clear that you, with your level of knowledge, will not understand anything I say. I also find no pleasure in attacking you in public, but the fact is that you made these issues public by your letter and by doing so you have opened the door to the possibility that you might be ready to grow and to learn. On that assumption I have chosen to respond to your public letter in this column. Let me begin by saying that your letter makes all kinds of assumptions that are typical of those who have confused a version of evangelical fundamentalism with Christianity. I can understand why, given your presuppositions, you are puzzled that I do not need a savior. You clearly do not understand that what I reject is a literal understanding of the ancient Hebrew myths that suggest that human life has fallen into “original sin.” Because of this I do not think that “savior” language is either meaningful or necessary. I see no evidence in the study of human origins that human life was ever created perfect only to fall into sin as the stories in the book of Genesis suggest.. What I do see is overwhelming data to support the idea that human life has evolved from single cell simplicity into self-conscious complexity over the 3.8 billion years that we now know that life in some form has been on this planet. If that is so, I believe Jesus needs to be understood as empowering us to become more deeply and fully human, not as a divinely sent invader who came to save us from our sins. No, Jesus is not the same as God. That is biblical non-sense. Even the doctrine of the Trinity was designed to prevent so simplistic an identification. In the gospels we are told that Jesus prayed. Was he talking to himself? We are told that Jesus died. Can God die and still be God? To suggest, as you do, that the Old Testament tells of the coming of the savior or that Psalm 22:27 speaks of Jesus is nothing more than a Christian misreading of the messianic hope of Israel. Only John’s gospel contains the claim that Jesus is the only way to God and for that to be used as a justification for religious triumphalism and imperialism, as you seem eager to do, is to do a grave injustice to the Fourth Gospel. The prayer, “My God, why have you forsaken me?” occurs only in Mark and Matthew. These authors are actually quoting Psalm 22, a psalm that early Christians used to provide content to the first narrative of the cross, which was not written, you need to know, until more than forty years after the crucifixion. It is not an eye-witness report. Luke and John, who wrote some 20 to 25 years after Mark, both omit that saying from the cross so that we must assume that they did not see it as Jesus taking on the sin of the world. Each of these later gospel writers adds other sayings that were supposed to have been said by Jesus from the cross about which neither Mark nor Matthew seemed to be aware and neither Luke nor John contains a saying from the cross that the other includes. So, given this conflict we have grave doubts that any of the words attributed to Jesus from the cross were ever spoken by him. I welcome your prayers for me, but your religious judgment, based on your total lack of biblical knowledge, renders these prayers as little more than pious insincerity. Your real agenda is to affirm your own religious authority, which, based upon your limited knowledge, is hardly inspiring or impressive. I have been a Christian all of my life and have served as a priest in my church for 21 years and as an elected bishop for 24 years. Yes, I have been wrong lots of times, but escaping the fundamentalism of my childhood was not one of those times. I walk the Christ path daily and I trust it will carry me into the mystery of God, the God who is ultimately real and yet who is beyond all of the pious formulas that religious people have tried to place on the Ultimate and Holy One; and no, I do not believe that Jesus died for my sins, nor am I attracted to that guilt producing, God destroying kind of pious rhetoric. ~John Shelby Spong Announcements Any questions or concerns, please contact us at support(a)johnshelbyspong.com or 503-236-3545. Copyright © 2012 ProgressiveChristianity.org, All rights reserved. You are receiving this email because you have a membership at our website. Our mailing address is: ProgressiveChristianity.org 4916 Pt Fosdick Dr, NW #148 Gig Harbor, WA 98335 Add us to your address book

1 0

The old Order passing away
by Sunny Walker 26 Sep '12

26 Sep '12

First, a reflection on Ellery - as a young and inexperienced Global Prior, Ellery was one of the ones who was gracious enough to let me learn from my mistakes without rancor and yet with continued nourishing support. Just her face was a human support mechanism. She spiritually nourished me and we rarely even spoke. And with mortality on my mind as so many saints are called home, knowing you have gone with God, I will let go a bit of the anticipation of my own return. For Carol, while there are many, many memories: one that popped to the top was the time we were at the IERD in Delhi and had boarded the VERY tiny elevator on the top floor (about the 22nd as I recall) of the hotel where we were housed. We pushed the button for the ground floor and about a third of the way down, the elevator shuddered to a stop and the door opened.on a brick wall. Well, I was a little claustrophobic and unaware that Carol was extremely claustrophobic. That hour waiting to be rescued (it could have been 15 minutes, but seemed like SEVERAL hours) was revealing of the wondrous woman of steel (Superman move over) who kept us breathing and laughing to avoid injuring ourselves in the mad panic of fear that sets in when you MUST get OUT and you cannot. Clearly our circumstances were not our problem. While in "Heaven," do a few cartwheels for me, my dear, as I know we both would enjoy them. Sunny Sunny Walker SunWalker Enterprises 303-587-3017 (cell) 303-671-0704 (home/office) sunwalker(a)comcast.net Aurora, CO No mattter how far you've gone down the wrong road, turn back. ~ Turkish Proverb

2 1

preliminary Accelerate 77 report on ICA-USA website
by Ellie Stock 24 Sep '12

24 Sep '12

Check out www.ICA-USA.org for a preliminary report on the September 15 Accelerate 77 Share Fair event at Truman University, including a few photos and video clip. Ellie Stock elliestock(a)aol.com

1 1

NY Times article
by KarenBueno＠aol.com 24 Sep '12

24 Sep '12

This is an excellent NY Times article about the middle east violence. _http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/23/opinion/sunday/kristof-exploiting-the-pro phet.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120923_ (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/23/opinion/sunday/kristof-exploiting-the-pro… nes&emc=edit_th_20120923) Karen Bueno

2 1