- Dialogue - lists.wedgeblade.net

1/18/23 PHOTOS—B½ OF ARCHIVE PROJECT
by Frank Knutson 18 Jan '23

18 Jan '23

"What Name?" What drives me into care; puts longing and a desire for love in my heart; places me in the struggle between my will and my duty; fills me with yearning to know and do; and forces me into life? At the same time, what makes a comedy of my care; allows my longings to miscarry and casts me into solitude; calls me to duty and torments me with guilt; limits my knowing and doing; and makes me finite? What do I name that which is beyond time and yet master of it, beyond existence yet always at its heart? ~Rudolf Bultmann

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1/17/23 PHOTOS—B½ OF ARCHIVE PROJECT
by Frank Knutson 17 Jan '23

17 Jan '23

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1/16/23 PHOTOS—B½ OF ARCHIVE PROJECT
by Frank Knutson 16 Jan '23

16 Jan '23

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1/15/23 PHOTOS—B½ OF ARCHIVE PROJECT
by Frank Knutson 16 Jan '23

16 Jan '23

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Undaunted. Brooke Kroeber
by James Wiegel 14 Jan '23

14 Jan '23

https://youtu.be/oUsqaz0JTV8 Wait for the scene from 4750 Jim Wiegel “…the long work of turning their lives into a celebration is not easy. Come and let us talk“. The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver

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1/14/23 PHOTOS—B½ OF ARCHIVE PROJECT
by Frank Knutson 14 Jan '23

14 Jan '23

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1/12/23 PHOTOS—B½ OF ARCHIVE PROJECT
by Frank Knutson 12 Jan '23

12 Jan '23

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1/11/23 PHOTOS—B½ OF ARCHIVE PROJECT
by Frank Knutson 12 Jan '23

12 Jan '23

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1/10/23 PHOTOS—B½ OF ARCHIVE PROJECT
by Frank Knutson 12 Jan '23

12 Jan '23

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1/12/2023, Progressing Spirit: Rev. Dr. Mark Sandlin More God in Us, Less Us in God; Spong revisited
by Ellie Stock 12 Jan '23

12 Jan '23

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Dr. Mark Sandlin | | | | View this email in your browser | | | | | | | | | | | | | | More God in Us, Less Us in God | | | | | | | | | | Essay by Rev. Dr. Mark Sandlin January 12, 2023Few progressive Christians believe that God is something we can truly ever fully understand. Yet, in constantly choosing to anthropomorphize God, we provide ourselves with fertile mental ground for believing we are doing just that. I'm not saying that anthropomorphizing God is all bad. I am, however, saying that when we lean into it and over-emphasize it, like most of Christianity does, we end up growing God into something that is far more human than divine. I am definitely saying that is bad. It's bad, in part, because we tend to attach the biases (good and bad) that we have about each other to God. Those biases are developed through observation of and social interactions with humanity over extended periods of time. Applying them to the divine is like trying to smell the color 9. (Thanks to contemporary Christian singer/songwriter Chris Rice for the concept). We end up with ideas about God that are much more human than they are divine. They even get in the way of actually observing what we can know of God because we start with the orientation of human biases, which everything we observe must then be filtered through. It's called subjective observational bias. It happens when the person observing has preconceived expectations that can influence their observations. That's particularly true when the expectations are personal. In the case of a believer, or even a seeker trying to understand what God is, and what attributes God has, there's a very good chance that they bring personal expectations to the table. Because of the teachings of the Church, those expectations are very likely to be very humanlike qualities. After all, a dominant source for the Church in trying to understand God is the Bible which was written some 2000 years ago or more in an age when many gods were understood to have humanlike attributes and when the concept of subjective observational bias was not a concept at all. It is not the least bit surprising that as those who wrote the various books of the Bible tried to communicate their experience of God, they did so in very anthropomorphic ways. What is surprising is that some 2000 years later, we still insist on primarily communicating about God in that way. Like I said, or rather like Chris Rice said, it's like trying to smell the color 9. I'm not advocating that we completely ditch anthropomorphic idealizations of God. As a matter of fact, I believe there is a lot of good that comes from doing it. I just don't think doing it a lot is good. Anthropomorphizing helps us understand things that aren't like us. It allows us to feel more connected to them and, frequently, more positive about them. The Chris Rice song referenced talks about how distant this thing we call God can feel. We see evidence of it throughout the Bible, from the Psalmist(s) to Jesus on the cross shouting "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani,” or “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me.” (Which, come to think of it, is Jesus quoting the Psalmist). It is easy to feel distant from God, to feel like God is so much unlike us that we may never experience God. There's no shame in it. It's to be expected. Anthropomorphization helps us make sense of something that is not like us. Anthropomorphizing God shrinks that feeling of distance by helping us identify more closely with God and feel more connected. There is definitely good in giving human qualities to things that are decidedly non-human. So, it can be good, but we definitely do it too much, and when we do, we create our own obstacles in trying to understand God. Things like unintentionally inserting subjective observational biases. We almost can't avoid it when we spend so much time humanizing God. Studies have discovered that the parts of the brain that are activated when we anthropomorphize God are the same parts that are used to derive the thoughts and emotions of other humans. We end up sloppily pasting our own human thoughts and emotions onto something that is supernaturally divine. I just don't see how that will ever get us any closer to understanding God. As a matter of fact, I believe it is one of the big reasons we haven't made more progress over the last 2000ish years. As a matter of fact, I believe it has done more harm than just that. As I said, anthropomorphization helps us make sense of something that is not like us, to believe we have a better understanding of it. The problem is that it is an all too easy step to conflate that feeling of connectedness with attributions of agency. The divine begins to become a controllable thing. We have some sense of agency over/with the divine. Influence over the divine (or at least the belief of having it) is a horribly dangerous thing. At its mildest, it gives us profiteers convincing folks to send in money in return for blessing from God. At its worst, it gives us things like ethnic cleansing, crusades, systematic commissioning of murder, sexual violence, and genocide - all done at and/or by the hand of God. We can (and sometimes do) end up with versions of God that look very much like the worst parts of humanity: a God that is wrathful, angry, judgmental, and jealous. On a side note, it is interesting that the images of God we form this way seldom have more positive human attributes like playfulness, a sense of humor, silliness, creativity, and being sympathetic. There's enough packed away in why that happens to write several doctoral theses, I imagine. In the end, too much anthropomorphizing of God allows us to think of ourselves as God-like in very human ways. We see ourselves as being made in God's image, primarily in the ways we push our humanity onto God through anthropomorphization. I have to believe that less humanizing of God will help us more readily recognize the reflection of the love of God that is in us. Far too many of our theological perspectives about God are grown out of bias ladened assumptions that are heavily connected to the humanization of God. It gets in our way of observing the true divine in the world, forming understandings of it, and then turning the knowledge inward to recognize the divine in ourselves. I also have to believe that the more we begin to recognize and understand the true divine in ourselves and in others, the more we will find ourselves in a better position for creating a better world for everyone.~ Rev. Dr. Mark Sandlin Read online here About the Author Rev. Dr. Mark Sandlin is an ordained minister in the Presbyterian Church (USA) from the South. He currently serves at Presbyterian Church of the Covenant. Mark also serves as the President and Co-executive Director of ProgressiveChristianity.org. He is a co-founder of The Christian Left. His blog, has been named as one of the “Top Ten Christian Blogs.” Mark received The Associated Church Press’ Award of Excellence in 2012. His Podcast The Moonshine Jesus Show is on Mondays at 4:30pm ET. Follow Mark on Facebook and Twitter @marksandlin. | | | | | | | | Question & Answer Q: By Steven I am an Atheist.and wonder why is it that most Christians insist that the Gospels were essentially dictated to (inspired) by God to write his unerring Word. Given the number of inconsistencies and that the narratives were clearly written by different authors who couldn’t even get the story straight, why is the Bible the go-to source for the answer to everything? Rev. Brandan Robertson Dear Steven,Thank you for this question. Many Christians simply do not understand how the Gospels, specifically and the Bible in general, were composed, and thus concoct various mystical and supernatural theories that bear no resemblance to reality. Simply raising the fact that no one followed Jesus around recording his teachings and actions, and in fact, most of his disciples were likely illiterate, can be enough to cause a crisis of faith- how then do we have the Gospels, and how can they be trusted as reliable at all? But progressive Christians, on the other hand, have long embraced the understanding that the Bible is not a divinely composed book, that it is a product of human effort, and thus should be engaged with critically even as we engage with it with reverence as the foundational document of our faith. While many scholars believe that many of the teachings of Jesus are in fact authentic and rooted in an earlier document often called Q, we also accept that many of the details of Jesus’ life are mythological and even sometimes copies of other myths from the cultures surrounding the Gospel writers. At the same time, we still draw on these stories for guidance and inspiration because myths are profound containers of truth- it is irrelevant, for instance, whether Jesus was born in Bethlehem to a virgin. But what is relevant in the profound message beneath the details of the Christmas story- is that God is found amid the most unexpected people and places, among the poor, marginalized, hopeless, and oppressed. All of this to say, Christians who view the Bible as the Word of God without error have a mountain of challenges to that belief- it’s not historically a Christian belief and is certainly not how the Jewish tradition viewed their Scriptures throughout much of history. Progressive Christians, on the other hand, invite critical engagement with the Bible, wrestling with the text like Jacob wrestled with God, drawing inspiration from its ancient stories and wisdom teachings while at the same time critiquing and rejecting the many places where it offers a theology or ethic that is far inferior to our modern theology of justice, inclusion, and love. ~ Rev. Brandan Robertson Read and share online here About the Author Rev. Brandan Robertson is a noted spiritual thought-leader, contemplative activist, and commentator, working at the intersections of spirituality, sexuality, and social renewal and the author of Nomad: A Spirituality For Travelling Light and writes regularly for Patheos, Beliefnet, and The Huffington Post. He has published countless articles in respected outlets such as TIME, NBC, The Washington Post, Religion News Service, and Dallas Morning News. As sought out commentator of faith, culture, and public life, he is a regular contributor to national media outlets and has been interviewed by outlets such as MSNBC, NPR, SiriusXM, TIME Magazine, Newsweek, The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, and The Associated Press. He leads Metanoia, a digital spiritual community at MetanoiaCenter.org | | | | | | | | Please continue to send us your feedback… we are listening. We aim to give voice to many different perspectives that are relevant and inspiring along this spiritually progressing path. We are not here to tell you what to believe or how to act. We are here to support your journey, to share and learn together.Thank you for being a part of this community - join us on Facebook! | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | As a non-profit ProgressiveChristianity.org/Progressing Spirit rely heavily on the good will of our donors to help us continue to bring individuals and churches the messages of progressive Christians, Weekly Newsletters, along with the many other resources we provide. For years, the majority of our fundraising came at the end of the year. Looking at various ways to create a more reasonable amount of cash flow we decided rather than having a BIG ask at the end of each year, our more frequent asks give folks a chance to contribute when their funds are more flexible. We think that's a win for everyone. We also want to highlight the opportunity to become a sustaining supporter. If you are looking for the best way to help us continue to provide progressive Christian resources, become a sustaining supporter by choosing Recurring Donation. Help keep ProgressiveChristianity.org online and going strong - click here to donate today! * Another way to support us is to leave a bequest in your Will and/or Trust designating us a beneficiary. | | | | | | | | | | | Don't miss the next Episode of PC.org's Executive Directors Mark and Caleb on: The Moonshine Jesus Show - every Monday at 4:30pm Eastern Time – watch live on Facebook,, YouTube, Twitter, Podbean | | | | | | | | | Bishop John Shelby Spong Revisited On Building a Christianity without Security or Creeds Essay by Bishop John Shelby Spong August 15, 2013One of my readers, Henry Gael Michaels, has shared with me an anonymous story on the meaning of God with which I open this column. It also reveals, I believe, what is wrong with all theology. I am grateful for this gift. This is his story. The mystic was back from the desert. “Tell us,” the people said, “What is God like?” The mystic wondered just how he could ever tell them what he had experienced in his heart while in the desert. Can God ever be put into words? He finally decided that in response he would give them a formula that was so convoluted and literally impossible, so inaccurate and so inadequate that their only choice would be to do as he had done and go into the desert to experience God for themselves. Alas, however, that is not what his hearers did. Instead they seized upon his formula, turning it into a sacred text or an infallible doctrine. Then they imposed it onto others as a creed or a set of holy beliefs. They even proclaimed that it was necessary to hold it, if one wants to be saved. They began to persecute and to kill those who would not consent to this formula. They went to enormous efforts and great costs to spread this formula to foreign lands. Some even gave their lives for this cause. The mystic was sad. “It might have been better,” he said, “if I had said nothing!” “Perhaps,” Henry Gael Michaels concluded in his letter to me, “This is why Jesus never wrote anything down.” It seems to me that this story articulates the problem that modern religious men and women have with organized religion and theology. Religion has adopted theological formulas based on two things: First, there is an experience of God, which people come to believe is both real and authentic, which makes them aware of transcendence. This experience is life changing, seemingly unrepeatable and certainly stretching to those having the experience. It leads to new dimensions of life and to new understandings. All religion, along with all theology, is born in such a primary experience. The second thing involved in religion and theology is, however, the compelling need to explain that experience to another. That is the moment when the experience is inevitably put into human words. The experience and the wordy explanation are never the same. If the experience is true, it is timeless, external and transformative! The explanation, however, is always time bound, time warped and finite. Every explanation freezes the experience in the vocabulary of the explainer. The explanation reflects the world view of the explainer, the explainer’s level of knowledge and the explainer’s time in history. There is no such thing as an eternal explanation. As time moves on, the destiny of every explanation is to become increasingly foreign to its audience, increasingly irrelevant to its time and finally to be dismissed or ignored as no longer appropriate to its world. If people begin to identify the experience with its explanation, the experience will die when the explanation dies. That is the law “of the Medes and the Persians,” and that is also the reality of human history. Now look at modern Christianity. Jesus was a first century experience in which people came to believe that they had encountered the transcendent reality that they called God. The New Testament was a first century attempt to explain that experience. There is no doubt that in the Jesus experience, lives were transformed. People, who at the time of Jesus’ arrest, had forsaken him and fled in fear, somehow came back together after his death and were empowered with a new courage. Previously fearful ones were now ready to die for the reality of an experience they could no longer deny. Even though these people had been raised inside a strict Jewish code, their “Jesus” experience forced them to expand that code so dramatically that the singularity of God was compromised and they could no longer see God apart from Jesus, nor could they see Jesus apart from God. Their understanding of God was thus modified and changed for ever. In time, this new understanding forced them to adopt a new holy day on which to celebrate this experience. That was when the first day of the week began to be observed and a new form of worship, based on the Passover meal, but expanded into something new that they called “The Eucharist,” came into being. That sacramental meal was said to mark the fact that Jesus “was made known to them in the breaking of the bread.” The New Testament was thus the written attempt by the followers of Jesus to capture the power of their Jesus experience in words. Inevitably, they were the words of the first century. Can we keep our hold on their experiences by literalizing their words today? Of course not! We cannot twist our minds into first century pretzels and think of God in the same way that they did. God cannot be to a post-Galilean, post-Newtonian world a being who lives above the sky, and who once entered the earth by causing a baby to be conceived in the womb of a virgin. Our minds and hearts are not drawn to the picture of a miracle-worker, who possessed such supernatural power that he could expand the food supply, heal the sick, banish the demons of epilepsy and mental illnesses, and even transcend the limits of death before he returned to God’s heavenly home by ascending into the sky of a three-tiered universe to a realm from whence this Jesus supposedly had originally come. That explanation may have fit the world of the first century quite well. Today, however, that understanding of Jesus sounds strange, foreign, dated, and mythological. Space age people cannot imagine such a heavenly being. The explanation of the New Testament may well point to truth, but the first century words they had at their disposal, can never capture the reality of that experience for all time. Explanations no matter how ancient, revered or sacred always die. No explanation is timeless, not even the explanations contained in the gospels. None can, therefore, be eternal. By the time the fourth century arrived in Christian history, Christians began to turn their first century New Testament explanations into creeds that were couched in the words that reflected the common assumptions of fourth century Greek-speaking people. That world thought in terms of dualism. By this I mean that they saw a strict division between heaven and earth, between the human and the divine, between the body and the soul and even between the flesh and the spirit. Dualistic concepts therefore permeated the language of the fourth century creeds and began to shape Christian understanding. The word “Incarnation,” for example, which literally means “to enter the flesh of,” became a doctrine designed to explain the way Jesus was to be understood. Next, Jesus was transformed into being the second person of the Holy Trinity. The human Jesus began to fade from view and a religious system that neither Paul nor the gospel writers would have ever recognized came into being. It was this theological system that poured anti-Semitism into the blood stream of the Christian West, producing such things as the expulsion from or the ghettoization of the Jews in every Christian nation of Europe. That killing violence finally exploded in the genocidal horror of the Holocaust in which 6,000,000 people died as the victims of religion gone mad. It was this system that also expressed itself in the Crusades of the 11th, 12th and 13th centuries that sought to kill the infidel Muslims. These fourth century creeds also gave birth to heresy hunts, religious wars and the Inquisition. It takes enormous energy to keep dying explanations viable. By the time the 13th century arrived, we turned these dated theological explanations into liturgies and repeated them in worship. Far more than most people recognize, the worship services in all Christian churches were born in 13th century understandings and practices. In that era, human life was denigrated and devalued. So Christian worship began to proclaim that we were “born in sin,” that we were “miserable offenders” and that we were not worthy to “gather up the crumbs under the divine table.” In our hymns we began to call ourselves “wretches” and “worms.” Life became something to be escaped, not something to be lived. We proclaimed a God who was all-seeing, one “to whom all hearts are open, all desires known and from whom no secrets are hid” and thus a God before whom we quaked in fear and were compelled constantly to beg for mercy. Perhaps that is why worship seems so strange, so unpleasant, so boring to people in the 21st century. That is not our understanding of life. Can we Christians escape, or at least relativize, our explanations from the past without losing in the process the power of the experiences which caused the explanations in the first place? That is the perennial question that both religion and theology asks. The clear answer is that if one literalizes any explanation of an experience, that experience becomes mortal and it is doomed to die. Truth is thus never served by static religious or theological explanations. This means that the Bible cannot be taken literally unless one wants the Bible to die. That means that orthodoxy can never be defined in creeds or doctrines unless one wants orthodoxy to die. This means that liturgical forms must always be changing, they can never be set in stone unless one wants all liturgies to become irrelevant. So religion as we now know and practice it is doomed. Once it is literalized, its destiny is only to create fundamentalists who will exact enormous energy from us in order to protect the religious formulas of the past and when they fail at this task, as they are destined to, they will produce secular humanists who can no longer live with integrity in those religious definitions of antiquity and so they will abandon all religion. The Church Alumni Association will be the fastest growing organization in the heretofore Christian world. That is where we are. What can we do about it? That will be my topic next week. ~ John Shelby Spong | | | | | | | | Announcements Paul Winter’s Winter Solstice Celebration The 43rd annual Paul Winter Consort Winter Solstice Celebration, in the form of a video retrospective, is now available to watch for free on YouTube. Entitled Solstice Saga, this epic three-hour journey interweaves iconic performances from the first forty years of these celebrations at New York’s Cathedral of St. John the Divine. READ ON ... | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |

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