Re: [Oe List ...] Adding to the conversation
Marsha I very much appreciate your willingness to share these often painful reflections. I've forwarded them to Gwyn. She too has struggled with the years we spent in the Order altho we chose to leave when she was due to join the 6th grade house. We too experienced the 'we won't talk with you about your leaving - shunned. But we were called to a Galaxy church which did make things different until the Move to the World. I agree this discussion should have happened long ago. Zoe Sent using myEarthLink On Mon Jun 30 10:46:29 EDT 2025 Marsha Hahn via OE wrote: For several months, I have been doing some writing, the intention of which was to spur some self-critical reflection about the Order. I had been thinking I might send it to the archives, but the last couple of days, as David, Shelley, and others have raised challenging but important topics, made me decide to go ahead and share it in this forum. If memory serves, one of the original purposes of this listserv was to create a space for inter-generational dialogue. There hasn't been a lot of that, but here we are. It's a little too long to include in the body of an email, so I'm attaching a PDF. Hoping it's a helpful contribution to this conversation. In love and respect, Marsha
Thank you Marsha. The Archives does need more of the second generation “EG” & youth perspective. There were definite mistakes as many younger gen were sometimes or often seen as secondary to the “Mission”. Or seen as a way to become bext generation “seconds” to perpetuate and “further the mission”… I know some was discussed after the Millennial Connection. However I’m not sure what was documented. Since my age is inbetween & actually closer to Second Generation, I am aware of a handful of your perspectives. I became friends with some of you, and know you have an active connection with each other. I eagerly read “Iron Boy” and was surprised how much I didn’t really know about earlier days of the Order, particularly youth perspective (having joined in ‘84). I will read your pdf with equal attention Marsha. And wonder how many more have written about their experiences. Of course there is the book titled something like Grits & the Holy Ghost (I forgot the exact title). Thank you David & Marsha Debra Harris WatsonHouston Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Monday, June 30, 2025, 12:49 PM, Zoe Barley via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Marsha I very much appreciate your willingness to share these often painful reflections. I've forwarded them to Gwyn. She too has struggled with the years we spent in the Order altho we chose to leave when she was due to join the 6th grade house. We too experienced the 'we won't talk with you about your leaving - shunned. But we were called to a Galaxy church which did make things different until the Move to the World. I agree this discussion should have happened long ago. Zoe Sent using myEarthLink On Mon Jun 30 10:46:29 EDT 2025 Marsha Hahn via OE wrote: For several months, I have been doing some writing, the intention of which was to spur some self-critical reflection about the Order. I had been thinking I might send it to the archives, but the last couple of days, as David, Shelley, and others have raised challenging but important topics, made me decide to go ahead and share it in this forum. If memory serves, one of the original purposes of this listserv was to create a space for inter-generational dialogue. There hasn't been a lot of that, but here we are. It's a little too long to include in the body of an email, so I'm attaching a PDF. Hoping it's a helpful contribution to this conversation. In love and respect, Marsha _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Marsha, Thank you for sharing your experience of the Order, Marsha. At 24, I met you and your mother at Academy in 1974 on the Westside. You were a young, bright young adult with a good sense of curiosity. Meeting you since as older adults, I so appreciate your journey -- all of it. The observations and counter perspectives you bring to our reflections on the Order are most helpful. One thing that I did not experience for myself was being trapped in the "only path" indicative. Certainly, I felt the call to join the Order and was excited by its mission, but I felt it was a good path choice *for me* and not the only path. After marrying, Bruce and I took assignments for over three years, then returned to be active in the Seattle Region. When we rejoined the Order in 1983, we held assignments for five years. I guess the lines of "in" or "out" of the Order were blurred for us. We saw folks "leave in the night" and felt that it was disingenuous for us and undignified for the Order. We did see the shunning of folks who left but felt the shunning was unnecessary and cruel. On various occasions I did call it out. I don't mean to argue the good points you made about the only path. I, too, saw its manifestation. I found it to be an unuseful Order fundamentalism. Again, thank you for sharing, Marsha. My heart goes out to Shelly, as well. The shame of her experience is on us all. Repentance is definitely in order. May turning our backs on those behaviours and abuses be total and healing, and ongoing. With gratitude, Sharon On Mon, Jun 30, 2025 at 1:40 PM Debra Harris via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Thank you Marsha. The Archives does need more of the second generation “EG” & youth perspective. There were definite mistakes as many younger gen were sometimes or often seen as secondary to the “Mission”. Or seen as a way to become bext generation “seconds” to perpetuate and “further the mission”…
I know some was discussed after the Millennial Connection. However I’m not sure what was documented. Since my age is inbetween & actually closer to Second Generation, I am aware of a handful of your perspectives. I became friends with some of you, and know you have an active connection with each other.
I eagerly read “Iron Boy” and was surprised how much I didn’t really know about earlier days of the Order, particularly youth perspective (having joined in ‘84).
I will read your pdf with equal attention Marsha. And wonder how many more have written about their experiences. Of course there is the book titled something like Grits & the Holy Ghost (I forgot the exact title).
Thank you David & Marsha
Debra Harris Watson Houston
On Monday, June 30, 2025, 12:49 PM, Zoe Barley via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Marsha
I very much appreciate your willingness to share these often painful reflections. I've forwarded them to Gwyn. She too has struggled with the years we spent in the Order altho we chose to leave when she was due to join the 6th grade house. We too experienced the 'we won't talk with you about your leaving - shunned. But we were called to a Galaxy church which did make things different until the Move to the World.
I agree this discussion should have happened long ago.
Zoe
Sent using myEarthLink
On Mon Jun 30 10:46:29 EDT 2025 Marsha Hahn via OE wrote: For several months, I have been doing some writing, the intention of which was to spur some self-critical reflection about the Order. I had been thinking I might send it to the archives, but the last couple of days, as David, Shelley, and others have raised challenging but important topics, made me decide to go ahead and share it in this forum. If memory serves, one of the original purposes of this listserv was to create a space for inter-generational dialogue. There hasn't been a lot of that, but here we are.
It's a little too long to include in the body of an email, so I'm attaching a PDF.
Hoping it's a helpful contribution to this conversation.
In love and respect,
Marsha
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
-- saf1220@gmail.com c: 503.807.7385
Thanks to everyone who has shared responses to what I wrote. I really appreciate hearing your perspectives and stories. The thoughtful replies are very touching and humbling. Sharon, it's interesting that you didn't buy into the "only path" experience I described. That's great to hear. I wonder if our respective age differences at least partially account for the differences in vulnerability to that belief. On Monday, June 30, 2025 at 02:39:19 PM PDT, Sharon Fisher via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Marsha, Thank you for sharing your experience of the Order, Marsha. At 24, I met you and your mother at Academy in 1974 on the Westside. You were a young, bright young adult with a good sense of curiosity. Meeting you since as older adults, I so appreciate your journey -- all of it. The observations and counter perspectives you bring to our reflections on the Order are most helpful. One thing that I did not experience for myself was being trapped in the "only path" indicative. Certainly, I felt the call to join the Order and was excited by its mission, but I felt it was a good path choice for me and not the only path. After marrying, Bruce and I took assignments for over three years, then returned to be active in the Seattle Region. When we rejoined the Order in 1983, we held assignments for five years. I guess the lines of "in" or "out" of the Order were blurred for us. We saw folks "leave in the night" and felt that it was disingenuous for us and undignified for the Order. We did see the shunning of folks who left but felt the shunning was unnecessary and cruel. On various occasions I did call it out. I don't mean to argue the good points you made about the only path. I, too, saw its manifestation. I found it to be an unuseful Order fundamentalism. Again, thank you for sharing, Marsha. My heart goes out to Shelly, as well. The shame of her experience is on us all. Repentance is definitely in order. May turning our backs on those behaviours and abuses be total and healing, and ongoing. With gratitude,Sharon On Mon, Jun 30, 2025 at 1:40 PM Debra Harris via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Thank you Marsha. The Archives does need more of the second generation “EG” & youth perspective. There were definite mistakes as many younger gen were sometimes or often seen as secondary to the “Mission”. Or seen as a way to become bext generation “seconds” to perpetuate and “further the mission”… I know some was discussed after the Millennial Connection. However I’m not sure what was documented. Since my age is inbetween & actually closer to Second Generation, I am aware of a handful of your perspectives. I became friends with some of you, and know you have an active connection with each other. I eagerly read “Iron Boy” and was surprised how much I didn’t really know about earlier days of the Order, particularly youth perspective (having joined in ‘84). I will read your pdf with equal attention Marsha. And wonder how many more have written about their experiences. Of course there is the book titled something like Grits & the Holy Ghost (I forgot the exact title). Thank you David & Marsha Debra Harris WatsonHouston Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Monday, June 30, 2025, 12:49 PM, Zoe Barley via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Marsha I very much appreciate your willingness to share these often painful reflections. I've forwarded them to Gwyn. She too has struggled with the years we spent in the Order altho we chose to leave when she was due to join the 6th grade house. We too experienced the 'we won't talk with you about your leaving - shunned. But we were called to a Galaxy church which did make things different until the Move to the World. I agree this discussion should have happened long ago. Zoe Sent using myEarthLink On Mon Jun 30 10:46:29 EDT 2025 Marsha Hahn via OE wrote: For several months, I have been doing some writing, the intention of which was to spur some self-critical reflection about the Order. I had been thinking I might send it to the archives, but the last couple of days, as David, Shelley, and others have raised challenging but important topics, made me decide to go ahead and share it in this forum. If memory serves, one of the original purposes of this listserv was to create a space for inter-generational dialogue. There hasn't been a lot of that, but here we are. It's a little too long to include in the body of an email, so I'm attaching a PDF. Hoping it's a helpful contribution to this conversation. In love and respect, Marsha _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net -- saf1220@gmail.com c: 503.807.7385_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
participants (4)
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Debra Harris -
Marsha Hahn -
Sharon Fisher -
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