For several months, I have been doing some writing, the intention of which was to spur some self-critical reflection about the Order. I had been thinking I might send it to the archives, but the last couple of days, as David, Shelley, and others have raised challenging but important topics, made me decide to go ahead and share it in this forum. If memory serves, one of the original purposes of this listserv was to create a space for inter-generational dialogue. There hasn't been a lot of that, but here we are. It's a little too long to include in the body of an email, so I'm attaching a PDF. Hoping it's a helpful contribution to this conversation. In love and respect, Marsha
I’m not sure my comments will be helpful; we left when our children were younger, having declined to place them in the care of others when we went to Guatemala, but finding that we could not keep them healthy in the village – parasites. I came to the order a bit disillusioned with the institutional church (as many of us were), having seen the Methodist system for ‘fast-tracking’ and how those who weren’t fast tracked were told that it was ‘God’s will’ for them to be placed in smaller, poor paying churches. Once I spoke with JWM about staying in the Order; his response stayed with me. “There are two ways to live, in the order and out of the order. The only thing you have to do in the order is obey God. The only thing you have to do out of the order is obey God. Obey God.” I found that releasing at the time; Carol and I benefitted from the methods and processes we learned, and employed them (with variations) in our work after leaving the Institute. We still use them. I found your comments absolutely valid and correct. I also grieve the abuse, the trauma and the loss that those decisions entailed. And I’ve found most organizations – sadly – have those dynamics in them as well. I appreciate your journey of care – and your transforming your own trauma and pain into insight and support for others. If we can be helpful in this journey, we are here. FWIW Bill Schlesinger (915) 490-6148 From: OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of Marsha Hahn via OE Sent: Monday, June 30, 2025 8:46 AM To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Marsha Hahn <mhahn013@sbcglobal.net> Subject: [Oe List ...] Adding to the conversation For several months, I have been doing some writing, the intention of which was to spur some self-critical reflection about the Order. I had been thinking I might send it to the archives, but the last couple of days, as David, Shelley, and others have raised challenging but important topics, made me decide to go ahead and share it in this forum. If memory serves, one of the original purposes of this listserv was to create a space for inter-generational dialogue. There hasn't been a lot of that, but here we are. It's a little too long to include in the body of an email, so I'm attaching a PDF. Hoping it's a helpful contribution to this conversation. In love and respect, Marsha -- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you
Marsha, I just finished reading through your entire essay/document and just want to tell you it was the most thoughtful, compassionate, say it loud enough for those who have ears to hear and not look away, statement I have been privileged to read. It made me wish I had known you. Circumstances made it impossible, although I was part of the priorship team in a house where some of your friends, I am sure, were assigned for their high school years. Thanks for sharing your current reflection. In these days especially where truth is so hard to identify, every line of your document says "This is true." Everyone who heard and responded to the call you described so clearly needs to read your words. You've made me reflect on my own part in those years of just accepting the "Order line." Thank you. Milan H. On Mon, Jun 30, 2025 at 7:46 AM Marsha Hahn via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
For several months, I have been doing some writing, the intention of which was to spur some self-critical reflection about the Order. I had been thinking I might send it to the archives, but the last couple of days, as David, Shelley, and others have raised challenging but important topics, made me decide to go ahead and share it in this forum. If memory serves, one of the original purposes of this listserv was to create a space for inter-generational dialogue. There hasn't been a lot of that, but here we are.
It's a little too long to include in the body of an email, so I'm attaching a PDF.
Hoping it's a helpful contribution to this conversation.
In love and respect,
Marsha
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
-- Mellow Milan Hamilton 80 North Center Street Redlands, CA 92373 Phone: (909) 943-1667 email: mellowmilan2@gmail.com
Thank you, Marsha, for a very thoughtful, frank and brave reflection on our life together in the Order. I found it deeply troubling and, at the same time, profoundly healing. Ellen and I and our two toddlers joined the Order in January 1965 (01-04-65 to be exact). That began a very intense, deeply rewarding, and very damaging 20 year journey. Like Bill S, I also am very grateful for tools, skills, experiences and friendships that would be life altering and life forming. Your parents were very important mentors and colleagues to us, especially in the early days. I grieve the callous disregard for some aspects of family life and individual development we were willing to tolerate in the service of our mission. I especially grieve the price my children paid for my vocational commitment. At the same time, I am profoundly grateful for the opportunity to experience deeply the cultural diversity of our world and the bond of missional collegiality the Order provided. Those 20 years propelled a post-Order life that was impactful and perhaps a contribution. Thank you (and Shelly) again, for your courage and directness. This is an unfinished and crucial conversation. With deep gratitude, James Addington 06/30/2025 7:45 AM PDT Marsha Hahn via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: For several months, I have been doing some writing, the intention of which was to spur some self-critical reflection about the Order. I had been thinking I might send it to the archives, but the last couple of days, as David, Shelley, and others have raised challenging but important topics, made me decide to go ahead and share it in this forum. If memory serves, one of the original purposes of this listserv was to create a space for inter-generational dialogue. There hasn't been a lot of that, but here we are. It's a little too long to include in the body of an email, so I'm attaching a PDF. Hoping it's a helpful contribution to this conversation. In love and respect, Marsha _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Thank you, Marsha! I’m so sorry for what happened to you. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I agree we were caught in somewhat of a mass hypnosis that allowed very harmful things to happen. Hopefully, we can learn and grow! Blase Sands Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef> ________________________________ From: OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> on behalf of JAMES ADDINGTON via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2025 1:58:01 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: JAMES ADDINGTON <inarja@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Adding to the conversation Thank you, Marsha, for a very thoughtful, frank and brave reflection on our life together in the Order. I found it deeply troubling and, at the same time, profoundly healing. Ellen and I and our two toddlers joined the Order in January 1965 (01-04-65 to be exact). That began a very intense, deeply rewarding, and very damaging 20 year journey. Like Bill S, I also am very grateful for tools, skills, experiences and friendships that would be life altering and life forming. Your parents were very important mentors and colleagues to us, especially in the early days. I grieve the callous disregard for some aspects of family life and individual development we were willing to tolerate in the service of our mission. I especially grieve the price my children paid for my vocational commitment. At the same time, I am profoundly grateful for the opportunity to experience deeply the cultural diversity of our world and the bond of missional collegiality the Order provided. Those 20 years propelled a post-Order life that was impactful and perhaps a contribution. Thank you (and Shelly) again, for your courage and directness. This is an unfinished and crucial conversation. With deep gratitude, James Addington 06/30/2025 7:45 AM PDT Marsha Hahn via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: For several months, I have been doing some writing, the intention of which was to spur some self-critical reflection about the Order. I had been thinking I might send it to the archives, but the last couple of days, as David, Shelley, and others have raised challenging but important topics, made me decide to go ahead and share it in this forum. If memory serves, one of the original purposes of this listserv was to create a space for inter-generational dialogue. There hasn't been a lot of that, but here we are. It's a little too long to include in the body of an email, so I'm attaching a PDF. Hoping it's a helpful contribution to this conversation. In love and respect, Marsha _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
James: Thank you for your thoughtful and heartfelt reflection. I found myself sitting with your words, with Shelley’s and Marsha's voices still resonating, and with a deep mix of grief, responsibility, and a longing for honesty. There is much in your letter that I recognize in myself—both the gratitude and the sorrow. Like you, I carry a profound appreciation for the shaping power of those years: the friendships, the cultural stretching, the vision that animated so much of what we gave ourselves to. But alongside that, I now live with the reality that some of what we gave—and some of what we withheld—left wounds we did not see, and in some cases, may never fully understand. I’ve come to believe that many of our children didn’t know how to name what they were experiencing—especially to parents so absorbed in the mission. We weren’t cruel. But we were often unavailable in the ways they most needed us to be. And the culture we built lacked the listening structures to make space for that kind of truth to emerge. That’s a hard realization. But it’s real. And it’s why I’m especially careful, now, not to let my own search for meaning—or my grief over what we lost—take the place of simply hearing Shelley and Marsha. What she needs, what so many need, is not our rationalization of the history. Not even our theology. She needs to be seen. Heard. Believed. Fully. Without defense. Something else has become clear to me in these conversations. I've noticed how often, when we speak of someone feeling ignored or harmed, we shift into explaining *why* they felt ignored. But that move often obscures the deeper truth: *they were ignored.* That’s the fact that must be held—not interpreted, not softened, just seen. Still, I also remember what we taught of Tillich: that no matter what we do, we are given grace. That’s not a pass. It’s a path. Grace doesn’t relieve us from responsibility—it gives us the strength to face it. And that’s the path I want to stay on: one of truth-telling, repair, and continued awakening. We were not wrong to respond to innocent suffering in the world. But in doing so, we sometimes missed the innocent suffering closest to us. That contradiction still lives in me. And I believe it’s asking something of us even now. With gratitude, and in the spirit of unfinished conversation, *Don* Don Bushman 828-292-9696 On Mon, Jun 30, 2025 at 12:58 PM JAMES ADDINGTON via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Thank you, Marsha, for a very thoughtful, frank and brave reflection on our life together in the Order. I found it deeply troubling and, at the same time, profoundly healing. Ellen and I and our two toddlers joined the Order in January 1965 (01-04-65 to be exact). That began a very intense, deeply rewarding, and very damaging 20 year journey. Like Bill S, I also am very grateful for tools, skills, experiences and friendships that would be life altering and life forming. Your parents were very important mentors and colleagues to us, especially in the early days. I grieve the callous disregard for some aspects of family life and individual development we were willing to tolerate in the service of our mission. I especially grieve the price my children paid for my vocational commitment. At the same time, I am profoundly grateful for the opportunity to experience deeply the cultural diversity of our world and the bond of missional collegiality the Order provided. Those 20 years propelled a post-Order life that was impactful and perhaps a contribution.
Thank you (and Shelly) again, for your courage and directness. This is an unfinished and crucial conversation. With deep gratitude, James Addington
06/30/2025 7:45 AM PDT Marsha Hahn via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
For several months, I have been doing some writing, the intention of which was to spur some self-critical reflection about the Order. I had been thinking I might send it to the archives, but the last couple of days, as David, Shelley, and others have raised challenging but important topics, made me decide to go ahead and share it in this forum. If memory serves, one of the original purposes of this listserv was to create a space for inter-generational dialogue. There hasn't been a lot of that, but here we are.
It's a little too long to include in the body of an email, so I'm attaching a PDF.
Hoping it's a helpful contribution to this conversation.
In love and respect,
Marsha _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Hi Marsha, Thank you for sharing your heart and soul's truth letter of your journey with OE/EI/ICA and beyond. May we have the courage, humility, and compassion to mirror that same truth. Below is a song that was written during that last difficult session of the 2000 OE Vail Reunion. The river metaphor came from the river flowing by the conference center. Ellieelliestock@aol.com River of OurSoul Dancing River ofour SoulSurging currentsof joy unfoldFountain lightSplashing nightCascadingthrough the world Silent River ofour SoulUndercurrents oftales untoldSecretstreamletsShadow inletsMerging in aspiral hold Raging River ofour SoulRocky currentstake pain’s tollDarkness keepingSufferingweepingFlooding heartsin numbing cold Healing River ofour SoulMirror currentsdare be boldReflections trueConfessions newCleansing,surrendering, grace remolds Gentle River ofour SoulEndless currentsof love cajoleConvergingwatersLife’s sons anddaughtersBlessing,honoring, making whole ejhs 8/7/2000 “OrderEcumenical” Reunion ClosingSession Vail, CO On Monday, June 30, 2025 at 10:46:46 AM EDT, Marsha Hahn via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: For several months, I have been doing some writing, the intention of which was to spur some self-critical reflection about the Order. I had been thinking I might send it to the archives, but the last couple of days, as David, Shelley, and others have raised challenging but important topics, made me decide to go ahead and share it in this forum. If memory serves, one of the original purposes of this listserv was to create a space for inter-generational dialogue. There hasn't been a lot of that, but here we are. It's a little too long to include in the body of an email, so I'm attaching a PDF. Hoping it's a helpful contribution to this conversation. In love and respect, Marsha _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
participants (7)
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Blase Sands -
Don Bushman -
Ellie Stock -
JAMES ADDINGTON -
Marsha Hahn -
Milan Hamilton -
w.schlesinger＠pvida.net