[Oe List ...] Do Good Intentions Make Up for Collateral Damage?

[Cheryl Hood]

What we should remember is that ALL forms of child-rearing are
experimental. The real purpose of procreation is to produce the speciman
who will survive and (hopefully) help the planet survive in the process.

Do we think that the individualized personal preening and pruning that is
currently in vogue will produce a better generation?

I'm not rationalizing or excusing the results or the Order's Family
experiment; just pointing out that, as an experiment, it was no further off
the mark than many other popular theories today.

And, that, yes, as Bill and Randy point out: Everything produces collateral
damage.

Cheryl Hood

On Sat, Jun 28, 2025 at 2:27 PM Bill Schlesinger via OE <
oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

> HRN described the social pioneering function of ‘church’ as the ‘sensitive
> and responsive part of every institution’ that repented when it became
> aware of innocent suffering, changed its own use, and leads society in the
> act of repentance.  That was the ‘radical demonstration of faith.’
>
>
>
> Discovering innocent suffering in our systems is a constant process.  I
> remember when one of us went into the data system we had at the time to
> replace all the male gender language in our songs.  We’ve discovered and
> turned our back on homophobia (JWM had a hard time with that one), and the
> treatment of children (ours and others) is no different.  It is a constant
> process.
>
>
>
> I have found ‘My Grandmother’s Hands’ (Thriftbooks if you don’t want
> Amazon) helpful on concrete ways of understanding and repenting of white
> supremacy privilege.
>
>
>
> Metanoia – the Greek word we translate as ‘repentance’ – literally
> translates as ‘new mind.’  It isn’t being guilty or sorry.  It’s doing the
> change that HRN discusses.  It’s helpful to revisit damage done, but the
> ‘test’ is how it translates to change in valuing our children and
> developing and supporting ways to care for them that – inevitably – will be
> part of future discoveries of innocent suffering.
>
>
>
> Carol and I talk with Don Bushman – a point of difference is my embracing
> of a really conservative theological concept – ‘TULIP.”  T – Total
> Depravity.  Everybody’s screwed up.  Deal with it.  U – Unconditional
> Election. No matter how screwed up we are, we’re still called to be
> responsible.  L- Limited Atonement.  Some people ‘get it.’  Some don’t.
> And you can’t tell the difference.  I – irresistible Grace.  We are all
> beloved.  P – Perseverance of the Saints.  Once you wake up, you can’t go
> back to sleep.  You can do a lot of damage to yourself and others, but you
> can’t go back to sleep.
>
>
>
> FWIW.
>
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Randy Williams <randycw1938 at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, June 28, 2025 2:36 PM
> *To:* Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> *Cc:* Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>; William
> Schlesinger <w.schlesinger at pvida.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] Do Good Intentions Make Up for Collateral
> Damage?
>
>
>
> Bill, that’s a good question, and my answer is, probably not. So maybe the
> difference is whether the “thing” — organization, movement, community or
> whatever — acknowledges the collateral damage it causes, tries to stop it
> or at least minimize it, and then how it talks about, i.e., the story it
> tells about it, to itself and to others. And finally, how the story stacks
> up against the truth. If it doesn’t, then my guess is, the “thing” has some
> issues. Two examples I would use are the loss of credibility the Catholic
> Church has experienced over its denial of the sexual abuse, and the fact
> that the MAGA movement, if that’s what it is, is largely based on a lie and
> therefore has never had any credibility to lose outside its own adherents.
> What all this says about or has to do with the O:E, EI, ICA is something to
> ponder.
>
> Randy Williams
>
>
>
> On Jun 28, 2025, at 3:50 PM, William Schlesinger via OE <
> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Is there anything that doesn't do collateral damage?
>
>
>
> Bill Schlesinger
>
> Project Vida
>
> 3607 Rivera Avenue
>
> El Paso, TX 79905
>
> (915) 490-6148 Cell
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 28, 2025, 1:42 PM David Marshall via OE <
> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
> Former Order: Ecumenical & Ecumencal Institute Colleagues,
>
>
>
> Early IRON BOY readers (paperback & ebook published on Amazon on 6/15/25)
> have asked me about this. In response, I just published my CULTS article on
> Substack. I imagine this will rub some folks on both sides of the aisle the
> wrong way, but it's my truth. It's too long (five pages) to publish here or
> on Facebook, so if you read it and have comments, you can either do so on
> Substack or on this more private thread. Thank you.
>
> <Instagram-Cults-Image_6-28-25.jpg>
>
>
>
>
> https://open.substack.com/pub/marshallbooks/p/can-cults-still-do-good-work?r=23ftwm&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://open.substack.com/pub/marshallbooks/p/can-cults-still-do-good-work?r%3D23ftwm%26utm_campaign%3Dpost%26utm_medium%3Dweb%26showWelcomeOnShare%3Dfalse&source=gmail-imap&ust=1751747757000000&usg=AOvVaw2ZepQzQbodsFZtFsYBXhuV>
>
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