[Oe List ...] Salmon: More on The Order

Wed Jun 21 13:44:12 PDT 2017

Margaret--
    Two items--
1.    A Salida Colorado friend asked that we study Buber's book, "I and Thou." We discovered that the book is almost impossible to read because of Buber's worldview (pre-Post Modern and years and years ahead of his time) and cultural bias (Buber is a Jew and raised by his Hasidic father). Spark Notes are a blessing. I have a rough chart of the last translation of "I and Thou" from the German by Walter Kaufmann--should anybody be interested.
2.    In the spirit of "what the hell," please explain to me the change in your name to an obvious (or maybe not-so-obvious) play on the word "Aiseayew." If I've overstepped my bounds, please ignore this request. 
    Inner Peace, 
    Bill Salmon

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Margaret Aiseayew via OE 
  To: 'Randy Williams' 
  Cc: 'Order Ecumenical Community' 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 12:10 PM
  Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: More on The Order

  Sorry to have misled you.  “Dream of the Earth” is Thomas Berry.  We think we can change things by dreaming about them.  Berry makes it clear that we must listen to the earth, a living, breathing, dreaming organism in its own right.

  Both Berry and Buber are on my list of saints.

  Apologies again for misleading you, Margaret

  From: Randy Williams [mailto:randycw1938 at gmail.com] 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 8:55 AM
  To: Margaret Aiseayew
  Cc: Order Ecumenical Community; James Wiegel
  Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: More on The Order

  Margaret,

  Buber has come to be one of my most valued saints, but I don't think I've read this piece by him. Could you summarize his point regarding "of" rather than "about."

  Thanks.

  Randy

  On Jun 21, 2017, at 8:39 AM, Margaret Aiseayew <aiseayew at netins.net> wrote:

    I would encourage people to consider rereading “Dream of the Earth” very carefully, which represents Buber’s perspective clearly.   It was not titled ‘dream about the earth.’

    Margaret

    From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Randy Williams via OE
    Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 8:19 AM
    To: James Wiegel; Order Ecumenical Community
    Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: More on The Order

    The reference to Kazantzakis, Boulding and Hesse are helpful reminders that the crimson line, invisible college, league, etc. has been, is, and ever shall be. I believe the task does not change but the metaphors that hold it do. For example, these days I am less informed and inspired by the image of "upagainstness" and more informed and motivated by Buber's (I paraphrase) "participating in what wants to emerge." The latter is a reminder for me that this is not something we initiated but something ongoing that we are called to participate in. Visioning then becomes, not the imposition of my fondest hopes and dreams on the future, but my understanding of what it is that wants to emerge that I/we are called to be part of.

    Randy

    On Jun 21, 2017, at 7:31 AM, James Wiegel via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

      Does Kazantzakis in Saviors of God, and Boulding's Invisible College also apply?  Been reading, charting Saviors, looking at the whole Bultmann paper, Desmond Avery's chapter on God from Beyond Power, also Niebuhr's three responsibilities of the church for society.

      What are we finally upagainst these days?  What is our responsibility?  What wisdom on all this do we have to share with the living, the dead, the unborn, not to mention "kids" now in their 40's?

      Jim Wiegel

      401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353

      Tel. 011-623-936-8671 or 011-623-363-3277

      jfwiegel at yahoo.com

      www.partnersinparticipation.com

      This Is Just To Say

      BY WILLIAM CARLOS WILLIAMS

      I have eaten

      the plums

      that were in

      the icebox

      and which

      you were probably

      saving

      for breakfast

      Forgive me

      they were delicious

      so sweet

      and so cold

      On Jun 19, 2017, at 19:23, William Salmon via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

            Thanks John for clarifying what we were and what we are now. Once you are on the "Journey to the East" (Hesse--thank you very much!), there is no going back or getting off. Do you want to know what the current manifestation of The Order looks like then look in the mirror. Also, there is a growing panoply of Order Saints cheering us on; among them is a little old white-haired man with a stutter--we can find him in Room E. 

            Bill Salmon

          ----- Original Message ----- 

          From: Rod Rippel via OE 

          To: John Epps ; Order Ecumenical Community ; Order Ecumenical Community 

          Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 9:44 AM

          Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] The Order and Oaxtapec

          Thanks John,  For reminding us that The Order is a Dynamic that takes on many forms in ways unnoticed and catalytic in society.

          Rod Rippel

          From: John Epps via OE 

          Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 2:57 PM

          To: Order Ecumenical Community 

          Subject: [Oe List ...] The Order and Oaxtapec

          It has long been claimed that at the Oaxtapec gathering, the Order was called out of being. That assertion has long troubled me, and it seems time to clear the air.

          IMHO, the statement is both sociologically and theologically inaccurate. A more accurate formulation of what happened in Mexico was that we went from a structured to a dispersed form. Something was definitely dissolved at Oaxtapec, but it was not the Order, only a particular form of the Order.

          On the sociological side, there is still a lively “we” that once went under the name “Order Ecumenical.” This list-serve and the archives workshops represent some manifestations, but more significant are the personal collegial relationships that persist despite great demographic, cultural, and geographic differences. “We” continue to communicate and to celebrate the life milestones of each other. 

          “We” continue to engage in the mission of catalyzing and caring for those who care – in multiple sectors and with far greater impact than a single organization could have managed. Some examples include the ToP Network, the IAF, ICA community development work in India, Nepal, Australia, and South America, and environmental preservation efforts in the USA. “We” have published a good number of books making insights available to a wide audience. Colleagues could fill out the list. 

          Theologically, the Order is a historical dynamic that we’ve been privileged to participate in. It is not something we can disband, even if we wanted to. Just as Niebuhr described the Church as the “sensitive and responsive ones…” that takes many forms, so also is the Order composed of those awakened and catalytic ones who care for those who care. The notion that some of us could dissolve that dynamic confuses the form from the content (the baby from the bathwater to use a less abstract metaphor). I’ve come (reluctantly) to see that we were led to dissolve a particular structure so that the historical dynamic might continue in an enhanced fashion. 

          Why does this matter? Is it simply a verbal difference having little to do with anything except the neurosis of an old theologian? 

          It matters because thinking that there is no longer an Order prevents us from wrestling with pertinent questions: How can we remain in touch with the Profound Mystery? How can we continue to access our common insights? What rites and celebrations are appropriate to a dispersed body? How can we account to each other and support each other? How can we stay on the religious and secular edge? What (if any) forms are appropriate for the global and diverse participants in this historical dynamic? In a time when hatred and fear of differences is so rampant, what new experiments might make a difference? What might we learn from Journey to the East?

          Collegial comments, clarifications, corrections, and additions are most welcome.

          Thanks for reading this.

          John Epps

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