[Dialogue] Dialogue Digest, Vol 47, Issue 3

Sat Feb 6 14:41:37 PST 2016

For Carol Poole, if she is in the pool - am in Saipan and would like to email you re your book.  Amazon was a bit stingy sample pages.

Jaime R Vergara
Saipan, Shenyang, and Honolulu

wangzhimu2031
earthrise consciousness, a gift; earthbound commitment, my choice
yesterday, appreciate; tomorrow, anticipate; today, participate! in all, celebrate!

-----Original Message-----
From: via Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Sent: Sun, Feb 7, 2016 4:10 am
Subject: Dialogue Digest, Vol 47, Issue 3

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Today's Topics:

   1. Grits,	Green Beans and the Holy Ghost: Memoirs of a Girl Monk
      (Ken Fisher via Dialogue)
   2. Re: Grits,	Green Beans and the Holy Ghost: Memoirs of a Girl
      Monk (laurelcg at aol.comviaDialogue)
   3. Correction - Grits, Green Beans and the Holy Ghost
      (Ken Fisher via Dialogue)
   4. Re: [Oe List ...] Correction - Grits,	Green Beans and the
      Holy Ghost (Ken Fisher via Dialogue)
   5. Winds & Waves Magazine Readership Survey
      (ICA International via Dialogue)

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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 14:43:41 -0500
From: Ken Fisher via Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>,	Colleague
	Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Subject: [Dialogue] Grits,	Green Beans and the Holy Ghost: Memoirs of
	a Girl Monk
Message-ID: <8A317EAD-CD76-4D3C-9B17-03D32C270D96 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

http://www.amazon.com/Grits-Green-Beans-Holy-Ghost/dp/099703680X <http://www.amazon.com/Grits-Green-Beans-Holy-Ghost/dp/099703680X>

Grits, Green Beans and the Holy Ghost: Memoirs of a Girl Monk Paperback ? December 2, 2015
by Carol J Poole <http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1?ie=UTF8&text=Carol+J+Poole&search-alias=books&field-author=Carol+J+Poole&sort=relevancerank> (Author)
5 out of 5 stars? <>  11 customer reviews <http://www.amazon.com/Grits-Green-Beans-Holy-Ghost/dp/099703680X#customerReviews>
See all formats and editions <>
Paperback?
$19.95
 <>
2 New?from?$19.95 <http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/099703680X/ref=tmm_other_meta_binding_new_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=new&qid=&sr=>

I still have occasional conversations with ex-Order members who either deny or minimize the experiences of abuse and neglect our order children and youth experienced.  Now, there are so many examples to choose from, of ruptured families and folks in midlife still healing from their experiences growing up in the Order. For sure there were those who did not have this experience.

I will always experience sadness over leaving my 6 month old son in the Student House and not seeing him for a year while I saved the world in India. And soon after he joined us in Bombay, I left him for another 6 weeks as I went to teach and ITI in north India!

In short, Carol asks: "Who is responsible for my childhood neglect and abuse, and that of my peers?" My answer is: "Those of us who were parents, the Order and Joe Matthew's in particular.?

Metaphorically, Carol responds: "Whether your answer is yes-and-no, or no-and-yes, life itself completely supports your continuation of having hopes and dreams, and invites you to be your mystery, depth and greatness.?

I just re-read Kaye Hayes (Kaze) Gadway summer 2000 apology signed by 150 Order parents and adults. "We are brokenhearted about the suffering we allowed and even more sorry that it has taken so long to acknowledge this to you. This is only an opening of what we hope will be an ongoing dialogue. We need to hear your truth. We are ready to listen." So be it.

Although she never lived the O:E, wife Patricia and I are reading this together.

Ken Fisher

Ken Fisher
1070 Elizabeth Street  Box 75
Sharbot Lake ON  K0H 2P0
613.279.1902
kenfisher1942 at gmail.com
Ken Fisher @KandPtrail

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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 19:50:22 GMT
From: laurelcg at aol.com via Dialogue	<dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Grits,	Green Beans and the Holy Ghost: Memoirs
	of a Girl Monk
Message-ID: <000f4242.296a254844432964 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

    I started this good book, bit son Scott came to visit, got into it and took it home to read. Thanks Ken.?
Jann
Sent from my LG Escape2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

------ Original message------From: Ken Fisher via Dialogue Date: Fri, Feb 5, 2016 11:43 AMTo: Order Ecumenical Community;Colleague Dialogue;Subject:[Dialogue] Grits, Green Beans and the Holy Ghost: Memoirs of a Girl Monk

http://www.amazon.com/Grits-Green-Beans-Holy-Ghost/dp/099703680X
Grits, Green Beans and the Holy Ghost: Memoirs of a Girl Monk?Paperback?? December 2, 2015by?Carol J Poole?(Author)5 out of 5 stars???11 customer reviewsSee all formats and editionsPaperback?
$19.952 New?from?$19.95

I still have occasional conversations with ex-Order members who either deny or minimize the experiences of abuse and neglect our order children and youth experienced. ?Now, there are so many examples to choose from, of ruptured families and folks in midlife still healing from their experiences growing up in the Order. For sure there were those who did not have this?experience.
I will always experience sadness over leaving my 6 month old son in the Student House and not seeing him for a year while I saved the world in India. And soon after he joined us in Bombay, I left him for another 6 weeks as I went to teach and ITI in north India!
In short, Carol asks: "Who is responsible for my childhood neglect and abuse, and that of my peers?" My answer is: "Those of us who were parents, the Order and Joe Matthew's in particular.?
Metaphorically, Carol responds: "Whether your answer is yes-and-no, or no-and-yes, life itself completely supports your continuation of having hopes and dreams, and invites you to be your mystery, depth and greatness.?
I just re-read?Kaye Hayes (Kaze) Gadway?summer 2000 apology signed by 150 Order parents and adults. "We are brokenhearted about the suffering we allowed and even more sorry that it has taken so long to acknowledge this to you. This is only an opening of what we hope will be an ongoing dialogue. We need to hear your truth. We are ready to listen." So be it.
Although she never lived the O:E, wife Patricia and I are reading?this together.
Ken Fisher

Ken Fisher1070 Elizabeth Street ?Box 75Sharbot Lake ON ?K0H 2P0613.279.1902kenfisher1942 at gmail.comKen Fisher @KandPtrail

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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 18:36:52 -0500
From: Ken Fisher via Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>,	Colleague
	Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Subject: [Dialogue] Correction - Grits, Green Beans and the Holy Ghost
Message-ID: <5C677D6F-ECF2-4ECB-A5A9-FAC2F7CBCA6D at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Correction: Kay?s ?on-behalf-of? apology was sent to all the Order Youth before the 2000 reunion.

Another apology was agreed upon at the reunion and signed by by 150 Order parents and adults.
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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 21:43:10 -0500
From: Ken Fisher via Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: Marilyn Crocker <marilyncrocker at juno.com>
Cc: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>,	Colleague
	Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] Correction - Grits,	Green Beans
	and the Holy Ghost
Message-ID: <1CCBD83E-E315-4379-A490-0976EA2C71E3 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Thank you most deeply, Marilyn.

And thanks to David Marshall for sending me these letters some years ago.

Ken

Here?s the letter Kay Hayes sent out before the 2000 Reunion.

Today Kay wrote, "I wrote the personal apology and sent it to Marsha Hahn who told me about the abuse. She sent it to the youth by way of the newsletter the youth wrote."

When we began the ?Family Order? we were small enough that we knew each other and kept on top of what was going on with our children.  I was in Fifth City when JFK died and joined Joe Mathews at the children?s table.  We thought we were revolutionary in children?s education but as we grew in numbers we began to let unknown and irresponsible people take over our children?s care.  There is no excuse for this ? it is criminal.  And I, as an adult in the Order for thirty years never took notice of the suffering of our children. Not all children were neglected and/or abused but it was criminal that even one child suffered.  I am so ashamed of my passive acceptance of this situation.

Virginia Satir, the family therapist, has the parents of an abused child kneel down and apologize for not protecting the child (even when they did not know about it).  So I am now on my knees ? I apologize that I, as an adult, did not protect you and other children.  Every child has the right to be protected.  I was blind to it.  I am sorry.  If there is anything I can do, please let me know.  I do not ask for forgiveness ? this is something I will take to my grave.  You did not deserve to be abused.  I think an apology is overdue to each and every one of you who suffered.

I?ve been thinking about the movie Judgment in Nuremberg, the first movie the Order analyzed.  In it, they were talking about all the Germans who did not (first-hand) kill the Jews.  As I remember the quotes ? ?Yes, we notice the terrible smell at the camps and we noticed that all the Jews were disappearing, but we didn?t know what was happening.  We are not guilty.?

Well, we (the adults) did notice that our children hated Emerging Generation structures, that they cried for their parents, and that they were not learning, but suffering.  For that, we are guilty.

Shortly thereafter, the following letter was distributed, signed by one hundred and fifty Order parents and adults:

We, the undersigned who were present at the Order Reunion 2000, heard verbal and written reports from both first and second generation persons in which they expressed their abuse and suffering.  In response we wish to add to the above letter as an expression of our apology without justification.  We are personally contacting first generation Order persons but wanted to have an initial expression of our sorrow go quickly to the second generation.

We are brokenhearted about the suffering we allowed and even more sorry that it has taken so long to acknowledge this to you.  This is only an opening of what we hope will be an ongoing dialogue.  We need to hear your truth.  We are ready to listen.

On Feb 5, 2016, at 8:32 PM, Marilyn Crocker <marilyncrocker at juno.com> wrote:

Hi Ken,

I?m not sure where you heard that ?Kay?s apology was sent to all the Second Generation before the 2000 reunion.?   

Actually, that was not the case.

When we gathered before the reunion began, the agenda was set and after several side-bar meetings with some of us (Kay, me, Sandy True, Ken & Ruth Gilbert, Martha Talbott, Mark Whitney, Leif Oden and others) we suggested the agenda be altered to include the issues that were being increasingly raised by our second generation.

Kay?s own childhood abuse by her uncle urged her to advocate for our second generation, and whether wise or not, she became the spokesperson for our second generation at that meeting.  I facilitated the whole group gathering when the difficult ?truths? were discussed ? not at all a role I had intended when I registered for this ?reunion.?  Martha Talbott facilitated a follow-up session to present the 5 healing strategies we, as first generation, recommended.

The statements of apology were crafted during that time of the meeting, not by Kay, but by the OE Generation #2, and the OE Generation #1.  And Joe and I and many others present wholeheartedly signed the statement of apology from Generation #1 ? we were stunned and saddened by what had been revealed.

And then, Bishop Jim Mathews, who was present for all of these painfully honest conversations, acknowledged the brokenness (Sin) and pronounced the Word of Absolution (Grace)

I believe neither Carol Poole, nor her family who had left the Order long before, were present for these gatherings, and so the ?apologies? she cited in her narrative were probably the best she garnered from third parties, but were presented out of actual context.  That?s not her fault?it?s just she wasn?t there.

I?m looking forward to alternative ?Memoirs? or even ?Historical Non-fiction? versions of the OE: Story ? especially from some of the amazing (in my estimation) priors of the Student House ? like the Packards, the Griffins, the Crows, Nancy Lamphear, Marie Sharpe, Jeannie Philbrook, Dierdre Dowsett, etc..

And I look forward to other perspectives from our second generation adults.

Furthermore, as one who was a member of the Order for 22 years, and who, with my husband of nearly 49 years, raised two sons in the Order, I?m guessing it might be my responsibility to write my version of life in the Order.

We?ll see.

Grace and peace,

Marilyn

From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net>] On Behalf Of Ken Fisher via OE
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2016 6:37 PM
To: Order Ecumenical Community; Colleague Dialogue
Subject: [Oe List ...] Correction - Grits, Green Beans and the Holy Ghost

Correction: Kay?s ?on-behalf-of? apology was sent to all the Order Youth before the 2000 reunion.

Another apology was agreed upon at the reunion and signed by by 150 Order parents and adults.

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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 12:13:50 -0500
From: ICA International via Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net
Subject: [Dialogue] Winds & Waves Magazine Readership Survey
Message-ID: <61402573646882337417617 at Laurier-PC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Greetings

"Winds and Waves" magazine is published three times a year by ICAI (Institute of Cultural Affairs International), sharing stories and insights on human development.

In 2016, as we enter our sixth year of publication, we invite you to share your thoughts about our magazine's current and future directions.

This readership survey consists of 10 questions, some of which can be answered by checking a box and some of which request a written answer. The survey should take between 10 and 15 minutes to complete.

To show our appreciation for your participation, we will enter you in a draw for a copy of "Changing Lives, Changing Societies: ICA's Experience in Nepal and the World" (2014).

We are particularly keen to hear individually from you, and everyone subscribed to the ICAI global email list representing our member organisations worldwide. Please find a few minutes to respond before 18 February.

many thanks. Please click this link:
                      https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/2GTM9XD

Martin Gilbraith
on behalf of the ICAI Winds & Waves team

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End of Dialogue Digest, Vol 47, Issue 3
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