[Dialogue] Free Speech

Tue Sep 18 08:27:06 PDT 2012

Reminds me of how Carter lost the election to Reagan due to backroom
negotiations with Iran to hold the hostages until AFTER the election
(perpetrated by the other party). I recollect a Jay Leno comedy routine
years ago where he said something like  "If you want a party that is REALLY
smart, but rather corrupt, vote Republican. If you want a party that REALLY
cares about people, but isn't very smart, vote Democrat." Yeah, politics
really suck.

Sunny

Sunny Walker 

SunWalker Enterprises

303-587-3017 (cell)

303-671-0704 (home/office)

sunwalker at comcast.net

Aurora, CO

No mattter how far you've gone down the wrong road, turn back. ~ Turkish
Proverb

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From: dialogue-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net
[mailto:dialogue-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Dharmalingam
Vinasithamby
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 9:04 AM
To: Colleague Dialogue
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Free Speech

There is another issue involved in all of this. From what I gather, the
latest clashes were not spontaneous. The movie had been around for quite a
while - then someone decided to dub it into Arabic. It looks like someone or
some group were looking for material to use baiting segments of the world's
population who easily allow themselves to be baited. And it also appears
that there were organisers distributed across several countries who probably
played a large part in triggering the various protests going on across the
world. 

So something else is going on - there is a cynical manipulation by some
group for some hidden purpose. And it may not neccessarily be Al-Qaeda.

Dharma 

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From: Ken Fisher <hkf232 at gmail.com>
To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> 
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 10:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Free Speech

"Might that not also apply to statements that insult, demean or otherwise
vilify other people?"

While on the surface I agree, I find myself easily vilifying the reactionary
government of my own country, Canada.  Hyperbole is normal in North
America's political climate.

Certainly the political elites vilify and demean. 

Would that we lived in the world of 'thee and thou' Quakers, whose speech
would be non-violent and reasonable.

And.. in Canada we have legislation regarding hate crime.

The Criminal Code of Canada says a hate crime is committed to intimidate,
harm or terrify not only a person, but an entire group of people to which
the victim belongs. The victims are targeted for who they are, not because
of anything they have done.

A hate crime is one in which hate is the motive and can involve
intimidation, harassment, physical force or threat of physical force against
a person, a group or a property

In Canada it is also a crime to incite hatred. Sections 318 and 319 are the
relevant sections of the Criminal Code.

e.g. Two Nova Scotia men were convicted under Canada's hate crime laws in
relation to a cross-burning incident on the lawn of an interracial couple in
Windsor, N.S.

Let's have the World Court debate it.

Ken

On 2012-09-18, at 7:07 AM, jlepps at pc.jaring.my wrote:

The recent uproar over the anti-Muslim film,  and the on-going violence
occasioned by the Danish publication (Jyllands Posten) of caricatures of the
Prophet Mohammed have occasioned some thoughts about Freedom of Speech. Here
they are, and your comments are most welcome.

Free Speech
Sept. 2012

The ideal of freedom of speech has been enshrined in the U.S. way of life
since the beginning. Some even argue that it was a driving force for those
who settled from Europe where people were sometimes persecuted for voicing
their opinions on sensitive matters. So our forefathers fought and died in
part over the principle that anyone could voice any opinion, however
contrary or disruptive to the established view of the majority. The
principle is embodied in Amendment 1 of the Constitution ("Congress shall
make no laws abridging . the freedom of speech.." - first introduced to
Congress in 1789.)  

In consequence we have all sorts of opinions making their way across the
country, sometime by airwaves, sometimes by newspaper, often by Internet.
Our heralded diversity includes those who believe in the immanence of the
second coming, conspiracy theories of many sort, the reality of Bigfoot,
flying saucers, and ghosts, and numerous versions of racial prejudice. All
are granted their right to speak out without fear of legal prosecution.

Surely, however, there are limits, if not of law, then of propriety. One
simply does not speak up in praise of Hitler in a Jewish Synagogue. One
needs to consider the consequences of one's speech on others, not simply the
desire to express one's opinions. The editors of the Danish newspaper that
published caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed still struggle with that
insight: their exercise of "freedom of the press" violated no legal
strictures, but brought considerable financial loss and suffering to Danes
living and working in Muslim countries. Where does the "freedom" end?

Perhaps there are some "common sense" guidelines. One may be free to walk
wherever one pleases, but when there are poisonous snakes or alligators on
the path, one limits one's choices. One may be free to pick the foliage in
the forest, but if it is poison oak, one elects to leave it alone. And one
does so without blaming the snakes or the gators or the poison oak - they're
just acting the way they are. It's in our best interest to keep out of their
way.

This principle is enshrined in the Harry Potter books with the slogan of
Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry: "Draco Dormiens Nunquam
Tittilandus." ("Never tickle a sleeping dragon.") One may be free to tickle,
but it is certainly unwise to exercise that right on a dragon in repose. 

Now the Danish publishers of Jyllands Posten and the makers of the recent
film, both obviously anti-Muslim, are quite free to their opinions, and have
violated no law in their work. But they have occasioned a great amount of
violence and suffering that could have been both anticipated and avoided.
And both, it seems, fear for their lives. 

That may be the key point. Our forefathers were willing to fight and die for
their freedom. Current practitioners seem outraged when their "freedom"
occasions threats and violence. Maybe they are not as committed as they'd
like us to believe.

This is not to suggest that Muslims resemble dragons or snakes or alligators
or poison oak, but it is certainly to acknowledge their sensitivity about
criticisms of the Prophet. Certain things in that culture are taboo, and the
taboo extends beyond members of their religion. Propriety demands that the
taboo be respected. The alternative is to face the consequences.

In a global society, one needs to consider sensitivities of many potential
audiences before expressing controversial opinions. This is not to say one
must compromise one's principles or alter one's opinions. But it is to say
that one needs to be willing to take responsibility for the outcome of one's
pronouncements. Freedom without responsibility is quite limited.

Of course "free speech" does have limits and controls, even in the West.
Child pornography is illegal and blocked from the Internet and from
publication. It seems that the public is unwilling to tolerate some types of
expression that cross the boundaries. The question becomes where to set
those bounds. 

It seems like "free expressions of opinion" that occasion physical harm to
others might also be a candidate for banning. That is a slippery slope, but
one that needs exploring. We have no trouble with the principle that "Your
freedom to swing your fists ends where my nose begins." Might that not also
apply to statements that insult, demean or otherwise vilify other people? 

John

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