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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Reminds me of how Carter lost the election
to Reagan due to backroom negotiations with <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Iran</st1:place></st1:country-region> to hold the hostages until
AFTER the election (perpetrated by the other party). I recollect a Jay Leno
comedy routine years ago where he said something like “If you want a party
that is REALLY smart, but rather corrupt, vote Republican. If you want a party
that REALLY cares about people, but isn’t very smart, vote Democrat.” Yeah,
politics really suck.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><em><i><font size=5 color=navy face="Viner Hand ITC"><span
style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Viner Hand ITC";color:navy'>Sunny</span></font></i></em><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:PersonName w:st="on"><font size=3 color=navy
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy'>Sunny
<st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Walker</st1:place></st1:City></span></font></st1:PersonName><font
color=navy face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri;color:navy'> </span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face=Calibri><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy'>SunWalker Enterprises</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face=Calibri><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy'>303-587-3017 (cell)</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face=Calibri><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy'>303-671-0704 (home/office)</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face=Calibri><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy'><a href="mailto:sunwalker@comcast.net">sunwalker@comcast.net</a></span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><font size=3
color=navy face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:navy'>Aurora</span></font></st1:City><font color=navy face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri;color:navy'>, <st1:State w:st="on">CO</st1:State></span></font></st1:place><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=purple face=Pristina><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Pristina;color:purple'>No mattter how far
you've gone down the wrong road, turn back. ~ Turkish Proverb</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net
[mailto:dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Dharmalingam Vinasithamby<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, September 18, 2012
9:04 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Colleague
Dialogue</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Dialogue] Free
Speech</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>There is
another issue involved in all of this. From what I gather, the latest clashes
were not spontaneous. The movie had been around for quite a while - then someone
decided to dub it into Arabic. It looks like someone or some group were looking
for material to use baiting segments of the world's population who easily allow
themselves to be baited. And it also appears that there were organisers
distributed across several countries who probably played a large part in
triggering the various protests going on across the world. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:black'>So something else is going on - there is a
cynical manipulation by some group for some hidden purpose. And it may not
neccessarily be Al-Qaeda.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:black'>Dharma <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:4.4pt;margin-top:4.4pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
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size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> Ken Fisher
<hkf232@gmail.com><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Colleague
Dialogue</st1:PersonName> <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, September 18, 2012
10:31 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Dialogue] Free
Speech</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div id=yiv2003110283>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>"Might
that not also apply to statements that insult, demean or otherwise vilify other
people?"<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>While on the
surface I agree, I find myself easily vilifying the reactionary government of
my own country, <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Canada</st1:place></st1:country-region>.
Hyperbole is normal in <st1:place w:st="on">North America</st1:place>'s
political climate.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Certainly the
political elites vilify and demean. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Would that we
lived in the world of 'thee and thou' Quakers, whose speech would be
non-violent and reasonable.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>And.. in <st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Canada</st1:place></st1:country-region> we have
legislation regarding hate crime.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-bottom:12.3pt;border-color:initial;outline-width:0px;
outline-color:initial'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:15.8pt;vertical-align:baseline'><font
size=4 color="#333333" face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.5pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#333333'>The Criminal Code of Canada says a hate crime is committed
to intimidate, harm or terrify not only a person, but an entire group of people
to which the victim belongs. The victims are targeted for who they are, not
because of anything they have done.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-bottom:12.3pt;border-color:initial;outline-width:0px;
outline-color:initial'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:15.8pt;vertical-align:baseline'><font
size=4 color="#333333" face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.5pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#333333'>A hate crime is one in which hate is the motive and can
involve intimidation, harassment, physical force or threat of physical force
against a person, a group or a property<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-bottom:12.3pt;border-color:initial;outline-width:0px;
outline-color:initial'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:15.8pt;vertical-align:baseline'><font
size=4 color="#333333" face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.5pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#333333'>In <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Canada</st1:place></st1:country-region>
it is also a crime to incite hatred. Sections 318 and 319 are the relevant
sections of the Criminal Code.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:15.8pt;background:white'><font size=4
color="#333333" face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:#333333'>e.g. Two Nova Scotia men were convicted under <st1:country-region
w:st="on">Canada</st1:country-region>'s hate crime laws in relation to a
cross-burning incident on the lawn of an interracial couple in <st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Windsor</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">N.S.</st1:State></st1:place><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:15.8pt;background:white'><font size=4
color="#333333" face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:#333333'>Let's have the <st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">World
Court</st1:address></st1:Street> debate it.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:15.8pt;background:white'><font size=4
color="#333333" face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:#333333'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:15.8pt;background:white'><font size=4
color="#333333" face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:#333333'>Ken<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:15.8pt;background:white'><font size=4
color="#333333" face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:#333333'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color="#565656"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#565656'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>On 2012-09-18,
at 7:07 AM, <a href="mailto:jlepps@pc.jaring.my" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:jlepps@pc.jaring.my">jlepps@pc.jaring.my</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>The
recent uproar over the anti-Muslim film, and the on-going violence
occasioned by the Danish publication (Jyllands Posten) of caricatures of the Prophet
Mohammed have occasioned some thoughts about Freedom of Speech. Here they are,
and your comments are most welcome.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-align:center;
background:white'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Free Speech<br>
Sept. 2012<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>The ideal of
freedom of speech has been enshrined in the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> way of life since the
beginning. Some even argue that it was a driving force for those who settled
from <st1:place w:st="on">Europe</st1:place> where people were sometimes
persecuted for voicing their opinions on sensitive matters. So our forefathers
fought and died in part over the principle that anyone could voice any opinion,
however contrary or disruptive to the established view of the majority. The
principle is embodied in Amendment 1 of the Constitution (“Congress shall make
no laws abridging … the freedom of speech..” – first introduced to Congress in
1789.) <br>
<br>
In consequence we have all sorts of opinions making their way across the
country, sometime by airwaves, sometimes by newspaper, often by Internet. Our
heralded diversity includes those who believe in the immanence of the second
coming, conspiracy theories of many sort, the reality of Bigfoot, flying
saucers, and ghosts, and numerous versions of racial prejudice. All are granted
their right to speak out without fear of legal prosecution.<br>
<br>
Surely, however, there are limits, if not of law, then of propriety. One simply
does not speak up in praise of Hitler in a Jewish Synagogue. One needs to
consider the consequences of one’s speech on others, not simply the desire to
express one’s opinions. The editors of the Danish newspaper that published
caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed still struggle with that insight: their
exercise of “freedom of the press” violated no legal strictures, but brought
considerable financial loss and suffering to Danes living and working in Muslim
countries. Where does the “freedom” end?<br>
<br>
Perhaps there are some “common sense” guidelines. One may be free to walk
wherever one pleases, but when there are poisonous snakes or alligators on the
path, one limits one’s choices. One may be free to pick the foliage in the
forest, but if it is poison oak, one elects to leave it alone. And one does so
without blaming the snakes or the gators or the poison oak – they’re just
acting the way they are. It’s in our best interest to keep out of their way.<br>
<br>
This principle is enshrined in the Harry Potter books with the slogan of
Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry: “Draco Dormiens Nunquam
Tittilandus.” (“Never tickle a sleeping dragon.”) One may be free to tickle,
but it is certainly unwise to exercise that right on a dragon in repose. <br>
<br>
Now the Danish publishers of Jyllands Posten and the makers of the recent film,
both obviously anti-Muslim, are quite free to their opinions, and have violated
no law in their work. But they have occasioned a great amount of violence and
suffering that could have been both anticipated and avoided. And both, it
seems, fear for their lives. <br>
<br>
That may be the key point. Our forefathers were willing to fight and die for
their freedom. Current practitioners seem outraged when their “freedom”
occasions threats and violence. Maybe they are not as committed as they’d like
us to believe.<br>
<br>
This is not to suggest that Muslims resemble dragons or snakes or alligators or
poison oak, but it is certainly to acknowledge their sensitivity about
criticisms of the Prophet. Certain things in that culture are taboo, and the
taboo extends beyond members of their religion. Propriety demands that the
taboo be respected. The alternative is to face the consequences.<br>
<br>
In a global society, one needs to consider sensitivities of many potential
audiences before expressing controversial opinions. This is not to say one must
compromise one’s principles or alter one’s opinions. But it is to say that one
needs to be willing to take responsibility for the outcome of one’s
pronouncements. Freedom without responsibility is quite limited.<br>
<br>
Of course “free speech” does have limits and controls, even in the West. Child
pornography is illegal and blocked from the Internet and from publication. It
seems that the public is unwilling to tolerate some types of expression that
cross the boundaries. The question becomes where to set those bounds. <br>
<br>
It seems like “free expressions of opinion” that occasion physical harm to
others might also be a candidate for banning. That is a slippery slope, but one
that needs exploring. We have no trouble with the principle that “Your freedom
to swing your fists ends where my nose begins.” Might that not also apply to
statements that insult, demean or otherwise vilify other people? <br>
<br>
John<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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