Re: [Oe List ...] OE Digest, Vol 118, Issue 20
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Today's Topics:
1. Stoicism (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby) 2. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (James Wiegel) 3. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby) 4. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Milan Hamilton) 5. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Nancy Trask) 6. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Beret Griffith) 7. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Jim) 8. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Diann McCabe)
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Message: 1 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 00:27:15 +0000 (UTC) From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby<dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> To: OE Listserve<oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, Dialogue List <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: [Oe List ...] Stoicism Message-ID:<1071180527.308516.1642724835413@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Dear colleagues,
I need help with an idea I?m trying to sort out. If you have the time and inclination, I would love to hear from you on the following:?
Saying Yes to life and Stoicism. Stoicism seems to be understood as a relationship to life where you keep going on despite the odds. There is also an inuendo that this may not be humanly possible and that internal pressures will eventually cause the person to crash. What I want to know is, was that the Stoicism that Zeno founded or merely a degraded understanding? Why did we as an Order cast it in a negative light? What was our beef with it? Was it a reaction to the degraded form or were we looking at it in its original sense? regardsDharma -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL:<http://lists.wedgeblade.net/pipermail/oe-wedgeblade.net/attachments/20220121/35aa8434/attachment-0001.html>
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Message: 2 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 03:17:19 +0000 (UTC) From: James Wiegel<jfwiegel@yahoo.com> To:"dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net" <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>, "oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, Karenbueno <karenbueno@aol.com> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Stoicism Message-ID:<2130564282.888309.1642735039425@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Does anyone recall (have notes on) the lecture introductions from RS-1?? They were quick and insightful, and I don't find anything in our archives on them . . .? One intro, maybe on Saturday afternoon -- would have been an intro to the freedom lecture / section / holy spirit / life style was a series of little triangles . . .? Everyone lives out of some sense of their final reality What am I upagainst in life?? what is my situation?and they have "A word" that releases them -- gives me the capacity to liveand a life style that comes out of that Anyway, I think one of them was the final reality is bad, and the word was just survive, and the life style was the stoic I don't quite remember the other ones . . . and the one course I had on philosophy did not emphasize the stoics.
Jim Wiegel ?
Theunknown is what is.? And to be frightened of it is what sends everybodyscurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, allthat.? Unknown is what is.? Accept that it's unknown, and it's plainsailing.? ??John Lennon
401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277
jfwiegel@yahoo.com
www.partnersinparticipation.com
On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 07:54:09 PM MST, Karenbueno via Dialogue<dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Stoic: I'm fine.? Me: Are you telling the truth?Stoic: Well, even if I hurt, what can I do.? I will just bear it.Me: Have you tried what the doctor advised?Stoic: Oh, I probably will soon.? Stop worrying about me.? I'm fine. Another day--Stoic: I don't see how we need to worry about climate change.? It will destroy us and the rest of life on the planet soon.Me: But shouldn't we do a few actions that might help.Stoic:? Oh, we are too far gone.? The oceans are rising, the ice is about gone.? We might as well just enjoy the life we have.Me: but what about our kids and grandkids and their kids?Stoic:? Look.? We are human.? The planet it too far gone.? We may as well just accept it. Another day--Stoic: Well, I think we have gone as far as we can to abolish racism in the United States.Me: I think there is still a lot of suffering from racism.? I think we should find some way to pay reparations.Stoic: You pay for it.? I have some other things I want to do with our money. Another day--Me: Did you hear about how the Wisconsin government is giving back some of their land to the Indians?Stoic: Oh for Pete Sake.? That war is long over, and we are getting along fine. Another day--Stoic: Listen to those shovels!? They are finishing my work!Me: No, honey, they are digging your grave. Another day--Me: They say that faith is belief in things not seen.Stoic: Ha.? Sounds pretty magic to me!Me: But if you trust that the creative power of God is in charge, you can have hope that the future is open, and we can act!Stoic: Naptime now.
Karen Bueno
-----Original Message----- From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via Dialogue<dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: OE Listserve<oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Dialogue List<dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby<dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> Sent: Thu, Jan 20, 2022 5:27 pm Subject: [Dialogue] Stoicism
Dear colleagues,
I need help with an idea I?m trying to sort out. If you have the time and inclination, I would love to hear from you on the following:?
Saying Yes to life and Stoicism. Stoicism seems to be understood as a relationship to life where you keep going on despite the odds. There is also an inuendo that this may not be humanly possible and that internal pressures will eventually cause the person to crash. What I want to know is, was that the Stoicism that Zeno founded or merely a degraded understanding? Why did we as an Order cast it in a negative light? What was our beef with it? Was it a reaction to the degraded form or were we looking at it in its original sense? regardsDharma_______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
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Message: 3 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 06:20:15 +0000 (UTC) From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby<dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> To:"dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net" <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>, "oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Stoicism Message-ID:<945319551.358776.1642746015855@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Thanks everyone for your responses. Some of these touched on what is happening to our planet, which is also what triggered my question.?It is clear that we have pushed our biosphere over the tipping point into a trajectory that will bring mass extinctions, perhaps even that of our species, in its wake. Whatever we do cannot change this, at least till after several decades. So whatever good we do, we won?t be around to see its result.So the question for me is what does it mean to say Yes to life in this situation and to live out of that stance. To use a metaphor, if we are led to the gallows, can we approach it saying Yes to what our life has been and what is going happen? By ?can we?, I mean how do we generate the courage and spirit for this.?A related question, how do we tell others what is in store truthfully and yet not leave them without hope or drive??If we live like this, could it be described (in a positive way) as Stoicism? I remember we seemed to have reservations about thi s during our RS1 courses. But I?m not sure whether they were about the popular understanding of Stoicism, as Karen illustrates in her email, or something deeper in that philosophy.? Dharma
On Friday, 21 January 2022, 11:17:28 am MYT, James Wiegel via OE<oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Does anyone recall (have notes on) the lecture introductions from RS-1?? They were quick and insightful, and I don't find anything in our archives on them . . .? One intro, maybe on Saturday afternoon -- would have been an intro to the freedom lecture / section / holy spirit / life style was a series of little triangles . . .? Everyone lives out of some sense of their final reality What am I upagainst in life?? what is my situation?and they have "A word" that releases them -- gives me the capacity to liveand a life style that comes out of that Anyway, I think one of them was the final reality is bad, and the word was just survive, and the life style was the stoic I don't quite remember the other ones . . . and the one course I had on philosophy did not emphasize the stoics.
Jim Wiegel ?
Theunknown is what is.? And to be frightened of it is what sends everybodyscurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, allthat.? Unknown is what is.? Accept that it's unknown, and it's plainsailing.? ??John Lennon
401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277
jfwiegel@yahoo.com
www.partnersinparticipation.com
On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 07:54:09 PM MST, Karenbueno via Dialogue<dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Stoic: I'm fine.? Me: Are you telling the truth?Stoic: Well, even if I hurt, what can I do.? I will just bear it.Me: Have you tried what the doctor advised?Stoic: Oh, I probably will soon.? Stop worrying about me.? I'm fine. Another day--Stoic: I don't see how we need to worry about climate change.? It will destroy us and the rest of life on the planet soon.Me: But shouldn't we do a few actions that might help.Stoic:? Oh, we are too far gone.? The oceans are rising, the ice is about gone.? We might as well just enjoy the life we have.Me: but what about our kids and grandkids and their kids?Stoic:? Look.? We are human.? The planet it too far gone.? We may as well just accept it. Another day--Stoic: Well, I think we have gone as far as we can to abolish racism in the United States.Me: I think there is still a lot of suffering from racism.? I think we should find some way to pay reparations.Stoic: You pay for it.? I have some other things I want to do with our money. Another day--Me: Did you hear about how the Wisconsin government is giving back some of their land to the Indians?Stoic: Oh for Pete Sake.? That war is long over, and we are getting along fine. Another day--Stoic: Listen to those shovels!? They are finishing my work!Me: No, honey, they are digging your grave. Another day--Me: They say that faith is belief in things not seen.Stoic: Ha.? Sounds pretty magic to me!Me: But if you trust that the creative power of God is in charge, you can have hope that the future is open, and we can act!Stoic: Naptime now.
Karen Bueno
-----Original Message----- From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via Dialogue<dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: OE Listserve<oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Dialogue List<dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby<dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> Sent: Thu, Jan 20, 2022 5:27 pm Subject: [Dialogue] Stoicism
Dear colleagues,
I need help with an idea I?m trying to sort out. If you have the time and inclination, I would love to hear from you on the following:?
Saying Yes to life and Stoicism. Stoicism seems to be understood as a relationship to life where you keep going on despite the odds. There is also an inuendo that this may not be humanly possible and that internal pressures will eventually cause the person to crash. What I want to know is, was that the Stoicism that Zeno founded or merely a degraded understanding? Why did we as an Order cast it in a negative light? What was our beef with it? Was it a reaction to the degraded form or were we looking at it in its original sense? regardsDharma_______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
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Message: 4 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 22:49:21 -0800 From: Milan Hamilton<mellowmilan2@gmail.com> To: Order Ecumenical Community<oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Stoicism Message-ID:<A7F062F9-75A4-4A74-9016-FCE0A89EB48E@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I majored in philosophy also and especially Studied Kierkegaard with one of the preeminent American teachers of SK, But can?t say I got much beyond the surface until RS-1. I do think there was more depth to Stoicism as a philosophy than hearing the word elicits in our psyche. But as to offering a way into the question Dharma is raising, I would suggest reading Jem Bendell?s Deep Adaptation paper and if interested getting into the conversation on the Deep Adaptation Forum; secondly, Michael Dowd?s ?Post Doom? series of 78 fifty minute interviews on You Tube with all sorts of climate scientists and writers, as well as some of his own videos; third, check out Joanna Macy?s ?The Work that Reconnects.? These are some resources we have found helpful to avoid getting stuck in one or more of the philosophy rabbit holes,Stoicism being only one of them. Humbly, Milan H.
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 20, 2022, at 10:20 PM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE<oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
? Thanks everyone for your responses. Some of these touched on what is happening to our planet, which is also what triggered my question. It is clear that we have pushed our biosphere over the tipping point into a trajectory that will bring mass extinctions, perhaps even that of our species, in its wake. Whatever we do cannot change this, at least till after several decades. So whatever good we do, we won?t be around to see its result. So the question for me is what does it mean to say Yes to life in this situation and to live out of that stance. To use a metaphor, if we are led to the gallows, can we approach it saying Yes to what our life has been and what is going happen? By ?can we?, I mean how do we generate the courage and spirit for this. A related question, how do we tell others what is in store truthfully and yet not leave them without hope or drive? If we live like this, could it be described (in a positive way) as Stoicism? I remember we seemed to have reservations about this during our RS1 courses. But I?m not sure whether they were about the popular understanding of Stoicism, as Karen illustrates in her email, or something deeper in that philosophy.
Dharma
On Friday, 21 January 2022, 11:17:28 am MYT, James Wiegel via OE<oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Does anyone recall (have notes on) the lecture introductions from RS-1? They were quick and insightful, and I don't find anything in our archives on them . . .
One intro, maybe on Saturday afternoon -- would have been an intro to the freedom lecture / section / holy spirit / life style was a series of little triangles . . .
Everyone lives out of some sense of their final reality What am I upagainst in life? what is my situation? and they have "A word" that releases them -- gives me the capacity to live and a life style that comes out of that
Anyway, I think one of them was the final reality is bad, and the word was just survive, and the life style was the stoic
I don't quite remember the other ones . . . and the one course I had on philosophy did not emphasize the stoics.
Jim Wiegel The unknown is what is. And to be frightened of it is what sends everybody scurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, all that. Unknown is what is. Accept that it's unknown, and it's plain sailing. John Lennon
401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com
On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 07:54:09 PM MST, Karenbueno via Dialogue<dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Stoic: I'm fine. Me: Are you telling the truth? Stoic: Well, even if I hurt, what can I do. I will just bear it. Me: Have you tried what the doctor advised? Stoic: Oh, I probably will soon. Stop worrying about me. I'm fine.
Another day-- Stoic: I don't see how we need to worry about climate change. It will destroy us and the rest of life on the planet soon. Me: But shouldn't we do a few actions that might help. Stoic: Oh, we are too far gone. The oceans are rising, the ice is about gone. We might as well just enjoy the life we have. Me: but what about our kids and grandkids and their kids? Stoic: Look. We are human. The planet it too far gone. We may as well just accept it.
Another day-- Stoic: Well, I think we have gone as far as we can to abolish racism in the United States. Me: I think there is still a lot of suffering from racism. I think we should find some way to pay reparations. Stoic: You pay for it. I have some other things I want to do with our money.
Another day-- Me: Did you hear about how the Wisconsin government is giving back some of their land to the Indians? Stoic: Oh for Pete Sake. That war is long over, and we are getting along fine.
Another day-- Stoic: Listen to those shovels! They are finishing my work! Me: No, honey, they are digging your grave.
Another day-- Me: They say that faith is belief in things not seen. Stoic: Ha. Sounds pretty magic to me! Me: But if you trust that the creative power of God is in charge, you can have hope that the future is open, and we can act! Stoic: Naptime now.
Karen Bueno
-----Original Message----- From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via Dialogue<dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: OE Listserve<oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Dialogue List<dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby<dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> Sent: Thu, Jan 20, 2022 5:27 pm Subject: [Dialogue] Stoicism
Dear colleagues,
I need help with an idea I?m trying to sort out. If you have the time and inclination, I would love to hear from you on the following:
Saying Yes to life and Stoicism. Stoicism seems to be understood as a relationship to life where you keep going on despite the odds. There is also an inuendo that this may not be humanly possible and that internal pressures will eventually cause the person to crash. What I want to know is, was that the Stoicism that Zeno founded or merely a degraded understanding? Why did we as an Order cast it in a negative light? What was our beef with it? Was it a reaction to the degraded form or were we looking at it in its original sense?
regards Dharma _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL:<http://lists.wedgeblade.net/pipermail/oe-wedgeblade.net/attachments/20220120/cbea5026/attachment-0001.html>
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Message: 5 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 07:48:07 -0600 From: Nancy Trask<nlt462@gmail.com> To: Order Ecumenical Community<oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Stoicism Message-ID: <CAAsR2TE+jqzOe8c99QzS+NePB13fgd436jRnz__7UtHdTi_qEg@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Dharma and all, it?s a very timely push for deeper understanding ? so glad you raised this angle on the topic. Thanks also to Milan for sharing resources from Jim Bendell, Michael Dowd, and Joanna Macy. I will have a look. The YouTube series of 78 interviews sounds fascinating. And I had recently happened on a presentation about adaptation, which has stuck with me. Could consider starting a new study series on some of these resources. Nancy Trask
On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 12:49 AM Milan Hamilton via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
I majored in philosophy also and especially Studied Kierkegaard with one of the preeminent American teachers of SK, But can?t say I got much beyond the surface until RS-1. I do think there was more depth to Stoicism as a philosophy than hearing the word elicits in our psyche. But as to offering a way into the question Dharma is raising, I would suggest reading Jem Bendell?s Deep Adaptation paper and if interested getting into the conversation on the Deep Adaptation Forum; secondly, Michael Dowd?s ?Post Doom? series of 78 fifty minute interviews on You Tube with all sorts of climate scientists and writers, as well as some of his own videos; third, check out Joanna Macy?s ?The Work that Reconnects.? These are some resources we have found helpful to avoid getting stuck in one or more of the philosophy rabbit holes,Stoicism being only one of them. Humbly, Milan H.
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 20, 2022, at 10:20 PM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
?
Thanks everyone for your responses. Some of these touched on what is happening to our planet, which is also what triggered my question. It is clear that we have pushed our biosphere over the tipping point into a trajectory that will bring mass extinctions, perhaps even that of our species, in its wake. Whatever we do cannot change this, at least till after several decades. So whatever good we do, we won?t be around to see its result. So the question for me is what does it mean to say Yes to life in this situation and to live out of that stance. To use a metaphor, if we are led to the gallows, can we approach it saying Yes to what our life has been and what is going happen? By ?can we?, I mean how do we generate the courage and spirit for this. A related question, how do we tell others what is in store truthfully and yet not leave them without hope or drive? If we live like this, could it be described (in a positive way) as Stoicism? I remember we seemed to have reservations about this during our RS1 courses. But I?m not sure whether they were about the popular understanding of Stoicism, as Karen illustrates in her email, or something deeper in that philosophy.
Dharma
On Friday, 21 January 2022, 11:17:28 am MYT, James Wiegel via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Does anyone recall (have notes on) the lecture introductions from RS-1? They were quick and insightful, and I don't find anything in our archives on them . . .
One intro, maybe on Saturday afternoon -- would have been an intro to the freedom lecture / section / holy spirit / life style was a series of little triangles . . .
Everyone lives out of some sense of their final reality What am I upagainst in life? what is my situation? and they have "A word" that releases them -- gives me the capacity to live and a life style that comes out of that
Anyway, I think one of them was the final reality is bad, and the word was just survive, and the life style was the stoic
I don't quite remember the other ones . . . and the one course I had on philosophy did not emphasize the stoics.
Jim Wiegel<http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=123>
The unknown is what is. And to be frightened of it is what sends everybody scurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, all that. Unknown is what is. Accept that it's unknown, and it's plain sailing. John Lennon
401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/401+North+Beverly+Way,Tolleson,+Arizona+85353?entry=gmail&source=g>
623-363-3277
jfwiegel@yahoo.com <marilyn.oyler@gmail.com>
www.partnersinparticipation.com
On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 07:54:09 PM MST, Karenbueno via Dialogue < dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Stoic: I'm fine. Me: Are you telling the truth? Stoic: Well, even if I hurt, what can I do. I will just bear it. Me: Have you tried what the doctor advised? Stoic: Oh, I probably will soon. Stop worrying about me. I'm fine.
Another day-- Stoic: I don't see how we need to worry about climate change. It will destroy us and the rest of life on the planet soon. Me: But shouldn't we do a few actions that might help. Stoic: Oh, we are too far gone. The oceans are rising, the ice is about gone. We might as well just enjoy the life we have. Me: but what about our kids and grandkids and their kids? Stoic: Look. We are human. The planet it too far gone. We may as well just accept it.
Another day-- Stoic: Well, I think we have gone as far as we can to abolish racism in the United States. Me: I think there is still a lot of suffering from racism. I think we should find some way to pay reparations. Stoic: You pay for it. I have some other things I want to do with our money.
Another day-- Me: Did you hear about how the Wisconsin government is giving back some of their land to the Indians? Stoic: Oh for Pete Sake. That war is long over, and we are getting along fine.
Another day-- Stoic: Listen to those shovels! They are finishing my work! Me: No, honey, they are digging your grave.
Another day-- Me: They say that faith is belief in things not seen. Stoic: Ha. Sounds pretty magic to me! Me: But if you trust that the creative power of God is in charge, you can have hope that the future is open, and we can act! Stoic: Naptime now.
Karen Bueno
-----Original Message----- From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via Dialogue < dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: OE Listserve<oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Dialogue List < dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby<dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> Sent: Thu, Jan 20, 2022 5:27 pm Subject: [Dialogue] Stoicism
Dear colleagues,
I need help with an idea I?m trying to sort out. If you have the time and inclination, I would love to hear from you on the following:
Saying Yes to life and Stoicism. Stoicism seems to be understood as a relationship to life where you keep going on despite the odds. There is also an inuendo that this may not be humanly possible and that internal pressures will eventually cause the person to crash. What I want to know is, was that the Stoicism that Zeno founded or merely a degraded understanding? Why did we as an Order cast it in a negative light? What was our beef with it? Was it a reaction to the degraded form or were we looking at it in its original sense?
regards Dharma _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
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Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism Thanks Dharma for your question about the RS1 comments about stoicism. Yes, the RS1 comments about a number of things were in relation to how they were understood in our current culture. Besides "stoicism" another term was "meditation" (misunderstood as "navel gazing"). Maybe there were others. I also used to think that "stocism" was like the British "stiff upper lip" or the Australian "she'll be right". In the meantime I have learned that it appears to be about being an authentic human being in the situation you are in. People can learn a lot about stoicism and the stoics on this website for instance. https://www.holstee.com/blogs/mindful-matter/stoicism-101-everything-you-wan.... Another term in popular culture that RS1 did not talk about but could have was "epicurean", understood as seeking out the most desirable things for yourself. This was also a misunderstanding of the philosophy, which emphasised that the good life was being in commmunity and living on "enough", rather than luxury and consumption. I learned from a documentary by contemporary philosopher Alain de Boutton that an epicurean king in ancient Asia Minor put an inscription on the wall of the marketplace which is still visible. It went something like this, "Be aware that nothing you can buy here will give you happiness" I realize from things like these that we can have many more "ancient friends" than is generally realized. From the perspective of 60 years after my first encounter with RS1, I realize that the use of those terms and others back then was polemical, intended to close off escapes that people were trapped in and prevented real living of the life you have now. Best wishes Richard Maguire On 22/01/2022 6:40 am, oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net wrote: living now.* Phone: +61 2 9896 3839, Post: 18 Sturdee St, Wentworthville NSW 2145 Australia Winners of Zest Award as Outstanding Community Leaders in Western Sydney. /*We live and work on the land of the Darug nation in Western Sydney and pay respect to the Elders past, present and emerging.* We acknowledge the wisdom and sovereignty of all Indigenous people and support The Uluru Statement from the Heart, calling for Voice, Treaty and Truth./
Dear Colleagues, - Trump said it's "unfair" for his kids to be included in investigations into Jan. 6 and his company. - His niece, Mary Trump, said he was being hypocritical, citing his attacks on Biden's son Hunter. - "His double standard is grotesque," she said, adding that Hunter never worked for the government. A.M. Noel On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 9:46 PM Richard and Maria Maguire via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism
Thanks Dharma for your question about the RS1 comments about stoicism. Yes, the RS1 comments about a number of things were in relation to how they were understood in our current culture. Besides "stoicism" another term was "meditation" (misunderstood as "navel gazing"). Maybe there were others. I also used to think that "stocism" was like the British "stiff upper lip" or the Australian "she'll be right". In the meantime I have learned that it appears to be about being an authentic human being in the situation you are in. People can learn a lot about stoicism and the stoics on this website for instance. https://www.holstee.com/blogs/mindful-matter/stoicism-101-everything-you-wan....
Another term in popular culture that RS1 did not talk about but could have was "epicurean", understood as seeking out the most desirable things for yourself. This was also a misunderstanding of the philosophy, which emphasised that the good life was being in commmunity and living on "enough", rather than luxury and consumption. I learned from a documentary by contemporary philosopher Alain de Boutton that an epicurean king in ancient Asia Minor put an inscription on the wall of the marketplace which is still visible. It went something like this, "Be aware that nothing you can buy here will give you happiness"
I realize from things like these that we can have many more "ancient friends" than is generally realized.
From the perspective of 60 years after my first encounter with RS1, I realize that the use of those terms and others back then was polemical, intended to close off escapes that people were trapped in and prevented real living of the life you have now.
Best wishes
Richard Maguire
On 22/01/2022 6:40 am, oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Stoicism (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby) 2. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (James Wiegel) 3. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby) 4. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Milan Hamilton) 5. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Nancy Trask) 6. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Beret Griffith) 7. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Jim) 8. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Diann McCabe)
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Message: 1 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 00:27:15 +0000 (UTC) From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> To: OE Listserve <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, Dialogue List <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: [Oe List ...] Stoicism Message-ID: <1071180527.308516.1642724835413@mail.yahoo.com> <1071180527.308516.1642724835413@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Dear colleagues,
I need help with an idea I?m trying to sort out. If you have the time and inclination, I would love to hear from you on the following:?
Saying Yes to life and Stoicism. Stoicism seems to be understood as a relationship to life where you keep going on despite the odds. There is also an inuendo that this may not be humanly possible and that internal pressures will eventually cause the person to crash. What I want to know is, was that the Stoicism that Zeno founded or merely a degraded understanding? Why did we as an Order cast it in a negative light? What was our beef with it? Was it a reaction to the degraded form or were we looking at it in its original sense? regardsDharma
Hi Richard,Thanks for that response and the link to the website, which I intend to browse later. I too felt that our comments on Stoicism were intended, as you put it, “to close off escapes that people were trapped in and which prevented real living” and that in doing that, we may have given a wrong impression of schools such as the Stoics. It’s good to be able to now look back and appreciate what both we and those we castigated were after.The issue that got me interested in exploring these ideas is this: How do we talk about caring for the planet when it’s clear that the benefits of our action, if any, will come only after we and our children, and perhaps even our species are gone. How do we describe it in a way that inspires and not dishearten others.RegardsDharma On Monday, 24 January 2022, 10:46:44 am MYT, Richard and Maria Maguire via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism Thanks Dharma for your question about the RS1 comments about stoicism. Yes, the RS1 comments about a number of things were in relation to how they were understood in our current culture. Besides "stoicism" another term was "meditation" (misunderstood as "navel gazing"). Maybe there were others. I also used to think that "stocism" was like the British "stiff upper lip" or the Australian "she'll be right". In the meantime I have learned that it appears to be about being an authentic human being in the situation you are in. People can learn a lot about stoicism and the stoics on this website for instance.https://www.holstee.com/blogs/mindful-matter/stoicism-101-everything-you-wan.... Another term in popular culture that RS1 did not talk about but could have was "epicurean", understood as seeking out the most desirable things for yourself. This was also a misunderstanding of the philosophy, which emphasised that the good life was being in commmunity and living on "enough", rather than luxury and consumption. I learned from a documentary by contemporary philosopher Alain de Boutton that an epicurean king in ancient Asia Minor put an inscription on the wall of the marketplace which is still visible. It went something like this, "Be aware that nothing you can buy here will give you happiness" I realize from things like these that we can have many more "ancient friends" than is generally realized.
From the perspective of 60 years after my first encounter with RS1, I realize that the use of those terms and others back then was polemical, intended to close off escapes that people were trapped in and prevented real living of the life you have now.
Best wishes Richard Maguire On 22/01/2022 6:40 am, oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net wrote: Send OE mailing list submissions to oe@lists.wedgeblade.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net You can reach the person managing the list at oe-owner@lists.wedgeblade.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of OE digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Stoicism (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby) 2. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (James Wiegel) 3. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby) 4. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Milan Hamilton) 5. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Nancy Trask) 6. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Beret Griffith) 7. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Jim) 8. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Diann McCabe) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 00:27:15 +0000 (UTC) From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> To: OE Listserve <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, Dialogue List <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: [Oe List ...] Stoicism Message-ID: <1071180527.308516.1642724835413@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Dear colleagues, I need help with an idea I?m trying to sort out. If you have the time and inclination, I would love to hear from you on the following:? Saying Yes to life and Stoicism. Stoicism seems to be understood as a relationship to life where you keep going on despite the odds. There is also an inuendo that this may not be humanly possible and that internal pressures will eventually cause the person to crash. What I want to know is, was that the Stoicism that Zeno founded or merely a degraded understanding? Why did we as an Order cast it in a negative light? What was our beef with it? Was it a reaction to the degraded form or were we looking at it in its original sense? regardsDharma
Dear Dharma, Are you making some assumptions? A.M. Noel On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 12:58 AM Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Hi Richard, Thanks for that response and the link to the website, which I intend to browse later. I too felt that our comments on Stoicism were intended, as you put it, “to close off escapes that people were trapped in and which prevented real living” and that in doing that, we may have given a wrong impression of schools such as the Stoics. It’s good to be able to now look back and appreciate what both we and those we castigated were after. The issue that got me interested in exploring these ideas is this: How do we talk about caring for the planet when it’s clear that the benefits of our action, if any, will come only after we and our children, and perhaps even our species are gone. How do we describe it in a way that inspires and not dishearten others. Regards Dharma
On Monday, 24 January 2022, 10:46:44 am MYT, Richard and Maria Maguire via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism
Thanks Dharma for your question about the RS1 comments about stoicism. Yes, the RS1 comments about a number of things were in relation to how they were understood in our current culture. Besides "stoicism" another term was "meditation" (misunderstood as "navel gazing"). Maybe there were others. I also used to think that "stocism" was like the British "stiff upper lip" or the Australian "she'll be right". In the meantime I have learned that it appears to be about being an authentic human being in the situation you are in. People can learn a lot about stoicism and the stoics on this website for instance. https://www.holstee.com/blogs/mindful-matter/stoicism-101-everything-you-wan....
Another term in popular culture that RS1 did not talk about but could have was "epicurean", understood as seeking out the most desirable things for yourself. This was also a misunderstanding of the philosophy, which emphasised that the good life was being in commmunity and living on "enough", rather than luxury and consumption. I learned from a documentary by contemporary philosopher Alain de Boutton that an epicurean king in ancient Asia Minor put an inscription on the wall of the marketplace which is still visible. It went something like this, "Be aware that nothing you can buy here will give you happiness"
I realize from things like these that we can have many more "ancient friends" than is generally realized.
From the perspective of 60 years after my first encounter with RS1, I realize that the use of those terms and others back then was polemical, intended to close off escapes that people were trapped in and prevented real living of the life you have now.
Best wishes
Richard Maguire
On 22/01/2022 6:40 am, oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net wrote:
Send OE mailing list submissions to oe@lists.wedgeblade.net
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net
You can reach the person managing the list at oe-owner@lists.wedgeblade.net
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of OE digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Stoicism (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby) 2. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (James Wiegel) 3. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby) 4. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Milan Hamilton) 5. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Nancy Trask) 6. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Beret Griffith) 7. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Jim) 8. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Diann McCabe)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 00:27:15 +0000 (UTC) From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> To: OE Listserve <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, Dialogue List <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: [Oe List ...] Stoicism Message-ID: <1071180527.308516.1642724835413@mail.yahoo.com> <1071180527.308516.1642724835413@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Dear colleagues,
I need help with an idea I?m trying to sort out. If you have the time and inclination, I would love to hear from you on the following:?
Saying Yes to life and Stoicism. Stoicism seems to be understood as a relationship to life where you keep going on despite the odds. There is also an inuendo that this may not be humanly possible and that internal pressures will eventually cause the person to crash. What I want to know is, was that the Stoicism that Zeno founded or merely a degraded understanding? Why did we as an Order cast it in a negative light? What was our beef with it? Was it a reaction to the degraded form or were we looking at it in its original sense? regardsDharma
participants (3)
-
A.M. Noel -
Dharmalingam Vinasithamby -
Richard and Maria Maguire