Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Stoicism
Does anyone recall (have notes on) the lecture introductions from RS-1? They were quick and insightful, and I don't find anything in our archives on them . . . One intro, maybe on Saturday afternoon -- would have been an intro to the freedom lecture / section / holy spirit / life style was a series of little triangles . . . Everyone lives out of some sense of their final reality What am I upagainst in life? what is my situation?and they have "A word" that releases them -- gives me the capacity to liveand a life style that comes out of that Anyway, I think one of them was the final reality is bad, and the word was just survive, and the life style was the stoic I don't quite remember the other ones . . . and the one course I had on philosophy did not emphasize the stoics. Jim Wiegel Theunknown is what is. And to be frightened of it is what sends everybodyscurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, allthat. Unknown is what is. Accept that it's unknown, and it's plainsailing. John Lennon 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 07:54:09 PM MST, Karenbueno via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Stoic: I'm fine. Me: Are you telling the truth?Stoic: Well, even if I hurt, what can I do. I will just bear it.Me: Have you tried what the doctor advised?Stoic: Oh, I probably will soon. Stop worrying about me. I'm fine. Another day--Stoic: I don't see how we need to worry about climate change. It will destroy us and the rest of life on the planet soon.Me: But shouldn't we do a few actions that might help.Stoic: Oh, we are too far gone. The oceans are rising, the ice is about gone. We might as well just enjoy the life we have.Me: but what about our kids and grandkids and their kids?Stoic: Look. We are human. The planet it too far gone. We may as well just accept it. Another day--Stoic: Well, I think we have gone as far as we can to abolish racism in the United States.Me: I think there is still a lot of suffering from racism. I think we should find some way to pay reparations.Stoic: You pay for it. I have some other things I want to do with our money. Another day--Me: Did you hear about how the Wisconsin government is giving back some of their land to the Indians?Stoic: Oh for Pete Sake. That war is long over, and we are getting along fine. Another day--Stoic: Listen to those shovels! They are finishing my work!Me: No, honey, they are digging your grave. Another day--Me: They say that faith is belief in things not seen.Stoic: Ha. Sounds pretty magic to me!Me: But if you trust that the creative power of God is in charge, you can have hope that the future is open, and we can act!Stoic: Naptime now. Karen Bueno -----Original Message----- From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: OE Listserve <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Dialogue List <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> Sent: Thu, Jan 20, 2022 5:27 pm Subject: [Dialogue] Stoicism Dear colleagues, I need help with an idea I’m trying to sort out. If you have the time and inclination, I would love to hear from you on the following: Saying Yes to life and Stoicism. Stoicism seems to be understood as a relationship to life where you keep going on despite the odds. There is also an inuendo that this may not be humanly possible and that internal pressures will eventually cause the person to crash. What I want to know is, was that the Stoicism that Zeno founded or merely a degraded understanding? Why did we as an Order cast it in a negative light? What was our beef with it? Was it a reaction to the degraded form or were we looking at it in its original sense? regardsDharma_______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
Thanks everyone for your responses. Some of these touched on what is happening to our planet, which is also what triggered my question. It is clear that we have pushed our biosphere over the tipping point into a trajectory that will bring mass extinctions, perhaps even that of our species, in its wake. Whatever we do cannot change this, at least till after several decades. So whatever good we do, we won’t be around to see its result.So the question for me is what does it mean to say Yes to life in this situation and to live out of that stance. To use a metaphor, if we are led to the gallows, can we approach it saying Yes to what our life has been and what is going happen? By “can we”, I mean how do we generate the courage and spirit for this. A related question, how do we tell others what is in store truthfully and yet not leave them without hope or drive? If we live like this, could it be described (in a positive way) as Stoicism? I remember we seemed to have reservations about this during our RS1 courses. But I’m not sure whether they were about the popular understanding of Stoicism, as Karen illustrates in her email, or something deeper in that philosophy. Dharma On Friday, 21 January 2022, 11:17:28 am MYT, James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Does anyone recall (have notes on) the lecture introductions from RS-1? They were quick and insightful, and I don't find anything in our archives on them . . . One intro, maybe on Saturday afternoon -- would have been an intro to the freedom lecture / section / holy spirit / life style was a series of little triangles . . . Everyone lives out of some sense of their final reality What am I upagainst in life? what is my situation?and they have "A word" that releases them -- gives me the capacity to liveand a life style that comes out of that Anyway, I think one of them was the final reality is bad, and the word was just survive, and the life style was the stoic I don't quite remember the other ones . . . and the one course I had on philosophy did not emphasize the stoics. Jim Wiegel Theunknown is what is. And to be frightened of it is what sends everybodyscurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, allthat. Unknown is what is. Accept that it's unknown, and it's plainsailing. John Lennon 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 07:54:09 PM MST, Karenbueno via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Stoic: I'm fine. Me: Are you telling the truth?Stoic: Well, even if I hurt, what can I do. I will just bear it.Me: Have you tried what the doctor advised?Stoic: Oh, I probably will soon. Stop worrying about me. I'm fine. Another day--Stoic: I don't see how we need to worry about climate change. It will destroy us and the rest of life on the planet soon.Me: But shouldn't we do a few actions that might help.Stoic: Oh, we are too far gone. The oceans are rising, the ice is about gone. We might as well just enjoy the life we have.Me: but what about our kids and grandkids and their kids?Stoic: Look. We are human. The planet it too far gone. We may as well just accept it. Another day--Stoic: Well, I think we have gone as far as we can to abolish racism in the United States.Me: I think there is still a lot of suffering from racism. I think we should find some way to pay reparations.Stoic: You pay for it. I have some other things I want to do with our money. Another day--Me: Did you hear about how the Wisconsin government is giving back some of their land to the Indians?Stoic: Oh for Pete Sake. That war is long over, and we are getting along fine. Another day--Stoic: Listen to those shovels! They are finishing my work!Me: No, honey, they are digging your grave. Another day--Me: They say that faith is belief in things not seen.Stoic: Ha. Sounds pretty magic to me!Me: But if you trust that the creative power of God is in charge, you can have hope that the future is open, and we can act!Stoic: Naptime now. Karen Bueno -----Original Message----- From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: OE Listserve <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Dialogue List <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> Sent: Thu, Jan 20, 2022 5:27 pm Subject: [Dialogue] Stoicism Dear colleagues, I need help with an idea I’m trying to sort out. If you have the time and inclination, I would love to hear from you on the following: Saying Yes to life and Stoicism. Stoicism seems to be understood as a relationship to life where you keep going on despite the odds. There is also an inuendo that this may not be humanly possible and that internal pressures will eventually cause the person to crash. What I want to know is, was that the Stoicism that Zeno founded or merely a degraded understanding? Why did we as an Order cast it in a negative light? What was our beef with it? Was it a reaction to the degraded form or were we looking at it in its original sense? regardsDharma_______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
I majored in philosophy also and especially Studied Kierkegaard with one of the preeminent American teachers of SK, But can’t say I got much beyond the surface until RS-1. I do think there was more depth to Stoicism as a philosophy than hearing the word elicits in our psyche. But as to offering a way into the question Dharma is raising, I would suggest reading Jem Bendell’s Deep Adaptation paper and if interested getting into the conversation on the Deep Adaptation Forum; secondly, Michael Dowd’s “Post Doom” series of 78 fifty minute interviews on You Tube with all sorts of climate scientists and writers, as well as some of his own videos; third, check out Joanna Macy’s “The Work that Reconnects.” These are some resources we have found helpful to avoid getting stuck in one or more of the philosophy rabbit holes,Stoicism being only one of them. Humbly, Milan H. Sent from my iPad
On Jan 20, 2022, at 10:20 PM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Thanks everyone for your responses. Some of these touched on what is happening to our planet, which is also what triggered my question. It is clear that we have pushed our biosphere over the tipping point into a trajectory that will bring mass extinctions, perhaps even that of our species, in its wake. Whatever we do cannot change this, at least till after several decades. So whatever good we do, we won’t be around to see its result. So the question for me is what does it mean to say Yes to life in this situation and to live out of that stance. To use a metaphor, if we are led to the gallows, can we approach it saying Yes to what our life has been and what is going happen? By “can we”, I mean how do we generate the courage and spirit for this. A related question, how do we tell others what is in store truthfully and yet not leave them without hope or drive? If we live like this, could it be described (in a positive way) as Stoicism? I remember we seemed to have reservations about this during our RS1 courses. But I’m not sure whether they were about the popular understanding of Stoicism, as Karen illustrates in her email, or something deeper in that philosophy.
Dharma
On Friday, 21 January 2022, 11:17:28 am MYT, James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Does anyone recall (have notes on) the lecture introductions from RS-1? They were quick and insightful, and I don't find anything in our archives on them . . .
One intro, maybe on Saturday afternoon -- would have been an intro to the freedom lecture / section / holy spirit / life style was a series of little triangles . . .
Everyone lives out of some sense of their final reality What am I upagainst in life? what is my situation? and they have "A word" that releases them -- gives me the capacity to live and a life style that comes out of that
Anyway, I think one of them was the final reality is bad, and the word was just survive, and the life style was the stoic
I don't quite remember the other ones . . . and the one course I had on philosophy did not emphasize the stoics.
Jim Wiegel The unknown is what is. And to be frightened of it is what sends everybody scurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, all that. Unknown is what is. Accept that it's unknown, and it's plain sailing. John Lennon
401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com
On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 07:54:09 PM MST, Karenbueno via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Stoic: I'm fine. Me: Are you telling the truth? Stoic: Well, even if I hurt, what can I do. I will just bear it. Me: Have you tried what the doctor advised? Stoic: Oh, I probably will soon. Stop worrying about me. I'm fine.
Another day-- Stoic: I don't see how we need to worry about climate change. It will destroy us and the rest of life on the planet soon. Me: But shouldn't we do a few actions that might help. Stoic: Oh, we are too far gone. The oceans are rising, the ice is about gone. We might as well just enjoy the life we have. Me: but what about our kids and grandkids and their kids? Stoic: Look. We are human. The planet it too far gone. We may as well just accept it.
Another day-- Stoic: Well, I think we have gone as far as we can to abolish racism in the United States. Me: I think there is still a lot of suffering from racism. I think we should find some way to pay reparations. Stoic: You pay for it. I have some other things I want to do with our money.
Another day-- Me: Did you hear about how the Wisconsin government is giving back some of their land to the Indians? Stoic: Oh for Pete Sake. That war is long over, and we are getting along fine.
Another day-- Stoic: Listen to those shovels! They are finishing my work! Me: No, honey, they are digging your grave.
Another day-- Me: They say that faith is belief in things not seen. Stoic: Ha. Sounds pretty magic to me! Me: But if you trust that the creative power of God is in charge, you can have hope that the future is open, and we can act! Stoic: Naptime now.
Karen Bueno
-----Original Message----- From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: OE Listserve <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Dialogue List <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> Sent: Thu, Jan 20, 2022 5:27 pm Subject: [Dialogue] Stoicism
Dear colleagues,
I need help with an idea I’m trying to sort out. If you have the time and inclination, I would love to hear from you on the following:
Saying Yes to life and Stoicism. Stoicism seems to be understood as a relationship to life where you keep going on despite the odds. There is also an inuendo that this may not be humanly possible and that internal pressures will eventually cause the person to crash. What I want to know is, was that the Stoicism that Zeno founded or merely a degraded understanding? Why did we as an Order cast it in a negative light? What was our beef with it? Was it a reaction to the degraded form or were we looking at it in its original sense?
regards Dharma _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Dharma and all, it’s a very timely push for deeper understanding — so glad you raised this angle on the topic. Thanks also to Milan for sharing resources from Jim Bendell, Michael Dowd, and Joanna Macy. I will have a look. The YouTube series of 78 interviews sounds fascinating. And I had recently happened on a presentation about adaptation, which has stuck with me. Could consider starting a new study series on some of these resources. Nancy Trask On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 12:49 AM Milan Hamilton via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
I majored in philosophy also and especially Studied Kierkegaard with one of the preeminent American teachers of SK, But can’t say I got much beyond the surface until RS-1. I do think there was more depth to Stoicism as a philosophy than hearing the word elicits in our psyche. But as to offering a way into the question Dharma is raising, I would suggest reading Jem Bendell’s Deep Adaptation paper and if interested getting into the conversation on the Deep Adaptation Forum; secondly, Michael Dowd’s “Post Doom” series of 78 fifty minute interviews on You Tube with all sorts of climate scientists and writers, as well as some of his own videos; third, check out Joanna Macy’s “The Work that Reconnects.” These are some resources we have found helpful to avoid getting stuck in one or more of the philosophy rabbit holes,Stoicism being only one of them. Humbly, Milan H.
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 20, 2022, at 10:20 PM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Thanks everyone for your responses. Some of these touched on what is happening to our planet, which is also what triggered my question. It is clear that we have pushed our biosphere over the tipping point into a trajectory that will bring mass extinctions, perhaps even that of our species, in its wake. Whatever we do cannot change this, at least till after several decades. So whatever good we do, we won’t be around to see its result. So the question for me is what does it mean to say Yes to life in this situation and to live out of that stance. To use a metaphor, if we are led to the gallows, can we approach it saying Yes to what our life has been and what is going happen? By “can we”, I mean how do we generate the courage and spirit for this. A related question, how do we tell others what is in store truthfully and yet not leave them without hope or drive? If we live like this, could it be described (in a positive way) as Stoicism? I remember we seemed to have reservations about this during our RS1 courses. But I’m not sure whether they were about the popular understanding of Stoicism, as Karen illustrates in her email, or something deeper in that philosophy.
Dharma
On Friday, 21 January 2022, 11:17:28 am MYT, James Wiegel via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Does anyone recall (have notes on) the lecture introductions from RS-1? They were quick and insightful, and I don't find anything in our archives on them . . .
One intro, maybe on Saturday afternoon -- would have been an intro to the freedom lecture / section / holy spirit / life style was a series of little triangles . . .
Everyone lives out of some sense of their final reality What am I upagainst in life? what is my situation? and they have "A word" that releases them -- gives me the capacity to live and a life style that comes out of that
Anyway, I think one of them was the final reality is bad, and the word was just survive, and the life style was the stoic
I don't quite remember the other ones . . . and the one course I had on philosophy did not emphasize the stoics.
Jim Wiegel <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=123>
The unknown is what is. And to be frightened of it is what sends everybody scurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, all that. Unknown is what is. Accept that it's unknown, and it's plain sailing. John Lennon
401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/401+North+Beverly+Way,Tolleson,+Arizona+85353?entry=gmail&source=g>
623-363-3277
jfwiegel@yahoo.com <marilyn.oyler@gmail.com>
www.partnersinparticipation.com
On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 07:54:09 PM MST, Karenbueno via Dialogue < dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Stoic: I'm fine. Me: Are you telling the truth? Stoic: Well, even if I hurt, what can I do. I will just bear it. Me: Have you tried what the doctor advised? Stoic: Oh, I probably will soon. Stop worrying about me. I'm fine.
Another day-- Stoic: I don't see how we need to worry about climate change. It will destroy us and the rest of life on the planet soon. Me: But shouldn't we do a few actions that might help. Stoic: Oh, we are too far gone. The oceans are rising, the ice is about gone. We might as well just enjoy the life we have. Me: but what about our kids and grandkids and their kids? Stoic: Look. We are human. The planet it too far gone. We may as well just accept it.
Another day-- Stoic: Well, I think we have gone as far as we can to abolish racism in the United States. Me: I think there is still a lot of suffering from racism. I think we should find some way to pay reparations. Stoic: You pay for it. I have some other things I want to do with our money.
Another day-- Me: Did you hear about how the Wisconsin government is giving back some of their land to the Indians? Stoic: Oh for Pete Sake. That war is long over, and we are getting along fine.
Another day-- Stoic: Listen to those shovels! They are finishing my work! Me: No, honey, they are digging your grave.
Another day-- Me: They say that faith is belief in things not seen. Stoic: Ha. Sounds pretty magic to me! Me: But if you trust that the creative power of God is in charge, you can have hope that the future is open, and we can act! Stoic: Naptime now.
Karen Bueno
-----Original Message----- From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via Dialogue < dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: OE Listserve <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Dialogue List < dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> Sent: Thu, Jan 20, 2022 5:27 pm Subject: [Dialogue] Stoicism
Dear colleagues,
I need help with an idea I’m trying to sort out. If you have the time and inclination, I would love to hear from you on the following:
Saying Yes to life and Stoicism. Stoicism seems to be understood as a relationship to life where you keep going on despite the odds. There is also an inuendo that this may not be humanly possible and that internal pressures will eventually cause the person to crash. What I want to know is, was that the Stoicism that Zeno founded or merely a degraded understanding? Why did we as an Order cast it in a negative light? What was our beef with it? Was it a reaction to the degraded form or were we looking at it in its original sense?
regards Dharma _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
-- “If you love it enough, anything will talk with you” ~George Washington Carver
There are tape recordings. Paul Evans Taped the whole academy. I checked the list of recordings and there are 15 RS-1 recordings listed in the database. There are cassette players made to listen to old audio tapes. So, it is possible one of the archive work teams could focus on the tape recording section of the archive. We'd have to purchase the appropriate cassette players to be able to do the job. I think Karen may know more. It would be fun to put together a "listening team". Beret On Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 7:48 AM Nancy Trask via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Dharma and all, it’s a very timely push for deeper understanding — so glad you raised this angle on the topic. Thanks also to Milan for sharing resources from Jim Bendell, Michael Dowd, and Joanna Macy. I will have a look. The YouTube series of 78 interviews sounds fascinating. And I had recently happened on a presentation about adaptation, which has stuck with me. Could consider starting a new study series on some of these resources. Nancy Trask
On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 12:49 AM Milan Hamilton via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
I majored in philosophy also and especially Studied Kierkegaard with one of the preeminent American teachers of SK, But can’t say I got much beyond the surface until RS-1. I do think there was more depth to Stoicism as a philosophy than hearing the word elicits in our psyche. But as to offering a way into the question Dharma is raising, I would suggest reading Jem Bendell’s Deep Adaptation paper and if interested getting into the conversation on the Deep Adaptation Forum; secondly, Michael Dowd’s “Post Doom” series of 78 fifty minute interviews on You Tube with all sorts of climate scientists and writers, as well as some of his own videos; third, check out Joanna Macy’s “The Work that Reconnects.” These are some resources we have found helpful to avoid getting stuck in one or more of the philosophy rabbit holes,Stoicism being only one of them. Humbly, Milan H.
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 20, 2022, at 10:20 PM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Thanks everyone for your responses. Some of these touched on what is happening to our planet, which is also what triggered my question. It is clear that we have pushed our biosphere over the tipping point into a trajectory that will bring mass extinctions, perhaps even that of our species, in its wake. Whatever we do cannot change this, at least till after several decades. So whatever good we do, we won’t be around to see its result. So the question for me is what does it mean to say Yes to life in this situation and to live out of that stance. To use a metaphor, if we are led to the gallows, can we approach it saying Yes to what our life has been and what is going happen? By “can we”, I mean how do we generate the courage and spirit for this. A related question, how do we tell others what is in store truthfully and yet not leave them without hope or drive? If we live like this, could it be described (in a positive way) as Stoicism? I remember we seemed to have reservations about this during our RS1 courses. But I’m not sure whether they were about the popular understanding of Stoicism, as Karen illustrates in her email, or something deeper in that philosophy.
Dharma
On Friday, 21 January 2022, 11:17:28 am MYT, James Wiegel via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Does anyone recall (have notes on) the lecture introductions from RS-1? They were quick and insightful, and I don't find anything in our archives on them . . .
One intro, maybe on Saturday afternoon -- would have been an intro to the freedom lecture / section / holy spirit / life style was a series of little triangles . . .
Everyone lives out of some sense of their final reality What am I upagainst in life? what is my situation? and they have "A word" that releases them -- gives me the capacity to live and a life style that comes out of that
Anyway, I think one of them was the final reality is bad, and the word was just survive, and the life style was the stoic
I don't quite remember the other ones . . . and the one course I had on philosophy did not emphasize the stoics.
Jim Wiegel <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=123>
The unknown is what is. And to be frightened of it is what sends everybody scurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, all that. Unknown is what is. Accept that it's unknown, and it's plain sailing. John Lennon
401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/401+North+Beverly+Way,Tolleson,+Arizona+85353?entry=gmail&source=g>
623-363-3277
jfwiegel@yahoo.com <marilyn.oyler@gmail.com>
www.partnersinparticipation.com
On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 07:54:09 PM MST, Karenbueno via Dialogue < dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Stoic: I'm fine. Me: Are you telling the truth? Stoic: Well, even if I hurt, what can I do. I will just bear it. Me: Have you tried what the doctor advised? Stoic: Oh, I probably will soon. Stop worrying about me. I'm fine.
Another day-- Stoic: I don't see how we need to worry about climate change. It will destroy us and the rest of life on the planet soon. Me: But shouldn't we do a few actions that might help. Stoic: Oh, we are too far gone. The oceans are rising, the ice is about gone. We might as well just enjoy the life we have. Me: but what about our kids and grandkids and their kids? Stoic: Look. We are human. The planet it too far gone. We may as well just accept it.
Another day-- Stoic: Well, I think we have gone as far as we can to abolish racism in the United States. Me: I think there is still a lot of suffering from racism. I think we should find some way to pay reparations. Stoic: You pay for it. I have some other things I want to do with our money.
Another day-- Me: Did you hear about how the Wisconsin government is giving back some of their land to the Indians? Stoic: Oh for Pete Sake. That war is long over, and we are getting along fine.
Another day-- Stoic: Listen to those shovels! They are finishing my work! Me: No, honey, they are digging your grave.
Another day-- Me: They say that faith is belief in things not seen. Stoic: Ha. Sounds pretty magic to me! Me: But if you trust that the creative power of God is in charge, you can have hope that the future is open, and we can act! Stoic: Naptime now.
Karen Bueno
-----Original Message----- From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via Dialogue < dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: OE Listserve <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Dialogue List < dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> Sent: Thu, Jan 20, 2022 5:27 pm Subject: [Dialogue] Stoicism
Dear colleagues,
I need help with an idea I’m trying to sort out. If you have the time and inclination, I would love to hear from you on the following:
Saying Yes to life and Stoicism. Stoicism seems to be understood as a relationship to life where you keep going on despite the odds. There is also an inuendo that this may not be humanly possible and that internal pressures will eventually cause the person to crash. What I want to know is, was that the Stoicism that Zeno founded or merely a degraded understanding? Why did we as an Order cast it in a negative light? What was our beef with it? Was it a reaction to the degraded form or were we looking at it in its original sense?
regards Dharma _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
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I, too, have found Micheal Dowd's "Post-doom" series to be both helpful and inspiring. I have tried answering some of the questions he asks his guests such as: What are you known for? What are you passionate about? What are you concerned about? What was your world view growing up? His mantra is: Grief, Grounding and Gratitude. One of his mentors is William Catton whom he often quotes. He reads meaningful books like _Overshoot_ which can be downloaded from youtube.com using RealPlayer. Dowd is an ordained minister. He is a Pro-Future Evangelist. ProFuture Faith. Jim Baumbach On 1/21/2022 12:49 AM, Milan Hamilton via OE wrote:
I majored in philosophy also and especially Studied Kierkegaard with one of the preeminent American teachers of SK, But can’t say I got much beyond the surface until RS-1. I do think there was more depth to Stoicism as a philosophy than hearing the word elicits in our psyche. But as to offering a way into the question Dharma is raising, I would suggest reading Jem Bendell’s Deep Adaptation paper and if interested getting into the conversation on the Deep Adaptation Forum; secondly, Michael Dowd’s “Post Doom” series of 78 fifty minute interviews on You Tube with all sorts of climate scientists and writers, as well as some of his own videos; third, check out Joanna Macy’s “The Work that Reconnects.” These are some resources we have found helpful to avoid getting stuck in one or more of the philosophy rabbit holes,Stoicism being only one of them. Humbly, Milan H.
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 20, 2022, at 10:20 PM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Thanks everyone for your responses. Some of these touched on what is happening to our planet, which is also what triggered my question. It is clear that we have pushed our biosphere over the tipping point into a trajectory that will bring mass extinctions, perhaps even that of our species, in its wake. Whatever we do cannot change this, at least till after several decades. So whatever good we do, we won’t be around to see its result. So the question for me is what does it mean to say Yes to life in this situation and to live out of that stance. To use a metaphor, if we are led to the gallows, can we approach it saying Yes to what our life has been and what is going happen? By “can we”, I mean how do we generate the courage and spirit for this. A related question, how do we tell others what is in store truthfully and yet not leave them without hope or drive? If we live like this, could it be described (in a positive way) as Stoicism? I remember we seemed to have reservations about this during our RS1 courses. But I’m not sure whether they were about the popular understanding of Stoicism, as Karen illustrates in her email, or something deeper in that philosophy.
Dharma
On Friday, 21 January 2022, 11:17:28 am MYT, James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Does anyone recall (have notes on) the lecture introductions from RS-1? They were quick and insightful, and I don't find anything in our archives on them . . .
One intro, maybe on Saturday afternoon -- would have been an intro to the freedom lecture / section / holy spirit / life style was a series of little triangles . . .
Everyone lives out of some sense of their final reality What am I upagainst in life? what is my situation? and they have "A word" that releases them -- gives me the capacity to live and a life style that comes out of that
Anyway, I think one of them was the final reality is bad, and the word was just survive, and the life style was the stoic
I don't quite remember the other ones . . . and the one course I had on philosophy did not emphasize the stoics.
Jim Wiegel <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=123>
The unknown is what is. And to be frightened of it is what sends everybody scurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, all that. Unknown is what is. Accept that it's unknown, and it's plain sailing. John Lennon
401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353
623-363-3277
jfwiegel@yahoo.com <mailto:marilyn.oyler@gmail.com>
www.partnersinparticipation.com <http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/>
On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 07:54:09 PM MST, Karenbueno via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Stoic: I'm fine. Me: Are you telling the truth? Stoic: Well, even if I hurt, what can I do. I will just bear it. Me: Have you tried what the doctor advised? Stoic: Oh, I probably will soon. Stop worrying about me. I'm fine.
Another day-- Stoic: I don't see how we need to worry about climate change. It will destroy us and the rest of life on the planet soon. Me: But shouldn't we do a few actions that might help. Stoic: Oh, we are too far gone. The oceans are rising, the ice is about gone. We might as well just enjoy the life we have. Me: but what about our kids and grandkids and their kids? Stoic: Look. We are human. The planet it too far gone. We may as well just accept it.
Another day-- Stoic: Well, I think we have gone as far as we can to abolish racism in the United States. Me: I think there is still a lot of suffering from racism. I think we should find some way to pay reparations. Stoic: You pay for it. I have some other things I want to do with our money.
Another day-- Me: Did you hear about how the Wisconsin government is giving back some of their land to the Indians? Stoic: Oh for Pete Sake. That war is long over, and we are getting along fine.
Another day-- Stoic: Listen to those shovels! They are finishing my work! Me: No, honey, they are digging your grave.
Another day-- Me: They say that faith is belief in things not seen. Stoic: Ha. Sounds pretty magic to me! Me: But if you trust that the creative power of God is in charge, you can have hope that the future is open, and we can act! Stoic: Naptime now.
Karen Bueno
-----Original Message----- From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: OE Listserve <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Dialogue List <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> Sent: Thu, Jan 20, 2022 5:27 pm Subject: [Dialogue] Stoicism
Dear colleagues,
I need help with an idea I’m trying to sort out. If you have the time and inclination, I would love to hear from you on the following:
Saying Yes to life and Stoicism. Stoicism seems to be understood as a relationship to life where you keep going on despite the odds. There is also an inuendo that this may not be humanly possible and that internal pressures will eventually cause the person to crash. What I want to know is, was that the Stoicism that Zeno founded or merely a degraded understanding? Why did we as an Order cast it in a negative light? What was our beef with it? Was it a reaction to the degraded form or were we looking at it in its original sense?
regards Dharma _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
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With the particular focus on the response to climate change, I'm reminded of the filmmaker's explanation of what he was doing in his film, Don't Look Up. See interview with Adam McKay, https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/in-dont-look-up-director-adam-mckay-makes-... --Diann McCabe in San Marcos, TX On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 9:47 AM Jim via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
I, too, have found Micheal Dowd's "Post-doom" series to be both helpful and inspiring. I have tried answering some of the questions he asks his guests such as: What are you known for? What are you passionate about? What are you concerned about? What was your world view growing up? His mantra is: Grief, Grounding and Gratitude. One of his mentors is William Catton whom he often quotes. He reads meaningful books like *Overshoot* which can be downloaded from youtube.com using RealPlayer. Dowd is an ordained minister. He is a Pro-Future Evangelist. ProFuture Faith.
Jim Baumbach On 1/21/2022 12:49 AM, Milan Hamilton via OE wrote:
I majored in philosophy also and especially Studied Kierkegaard with one of the preeminent American teachers of SK, But can’t say I got much beyond the surface until RS-1. I do think there was more depth to Stoicism as a philosophy than hearing the word elicits in our psyche. But as to offering a way into the question Dharma is raising, I would suggest reading Jem Bendell’s Deep Adaptation paper and if interested getting into the conversation on the Deep Adaptation Forum; secondly, Michael Dowd’s “Post Doom” series of 78 fifty minute interviews on You Tube with all sorts of climate scientists and writers, as well as some of his own videos; third, check out Joanna Macy’s “The Work that Reconnects.” These are some resources we have found helpful to avoid getting stuck in one or more of the philosophy rabbit holes,Stoicism being only one of them. Humbly, Milan H.
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 20, 2022, at 10:20 PM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Thanks everyone for your responses. Some of these touched on what is happening to our planet, which is also what triggered my question. It is clear that we have pushed our biosphere over the tipping point into a trajectory that will bring mass extinctions, perhaps even that of our species, in its wake. Whatever we do cannot change this, at least till after several decades. So whatever good we do, we won’t be around to see its result. So the question for me is what does it mean to say Yes to life in this situation and to live out of that stance. To use a metaphor, if we are led to the gallows, can we approach it saying Yes to what our life has been and what is going happen? By “can we”, I mean how do we generate the courage and spirit for this. A related question, how do we tell others what is in store truthfully and yet not leave them without hope or drive? If we live like this, could it be described (in a positive way) as Stoicism? I remember we seemed to have reservations about this during our RS1 courses. But I’m not sure whether they were about the popular understanding of Stoicism, as Karen illustrates in her email, or something deeper in that philosophy.
Dharma
On Friday, 21 January 2022, 11:17:28 am MYT, James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Does anyone recall (have notes on) the lecture introductions from RS-1? They were quick and insightful, and I don't find anything in our archives on them . . .
One intro, maybe on Saturday afternoon -- would have been an intro to the freedom lecture / section / holy spirit / life style was a series of little triangles . . .
Everyone lives out of some sense of their final reality What am I upagainst in life? what is my situation? and they have "A word" that releases them -- gives me the capacity to live and a life style that comes out of that
Anyway, I think one of them was the final reality is bad, and the word was just survive, and the life style was the stoic
I don't quite remember the other ones . . . and the one course I had on philosophy did not emphasize the stoics.
Jim Wiegel <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=123>
The unknown is what is. And to be frightened of it is what sends everybody scurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, all that. Unknown is what is. Accept that it's unknown, and it's plain sailing. John Lennon
401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353
623-363-3277
jfwiegel@yahoo.com <marilyn.oyler@gmail.com>
www.partnersinparticipation.com
On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 07:54:09 PM MST, Karenbueno via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Stoic: I'm fine. Me: Are you telling the truth? Stoic: Well, even if I hurt, what can I do. I will just bear it. Me: Have you tried what the doctor advised? Stoic: Oh, I probably will soon. Stop worrying about me. I'm fine.
Another day-- Stoic: I don't see how we need to worry about climate change. It will destroy us and the rest of life on the planet soon. Me: But shouldn't we do a few actions that might help. Stoic: Oh, we are too far gone. The oceans are rising, the ice is about gone. We might as well just enjoy the life we have. Me: but what about our kids and grandkids and their kids? Stoic: Look. We are human. The planet it too far gone. We may as well just accept it.
Another day-- Stoic: Well, I think we have gone as far as we can to abolish racism in the United States. Me: I think there is still a lot of suffering from racism. I think we should find some way to pay reparations. Stoic: You pay for it. I have some other things I want to do with our money.
Another day-- Me: Did you hear about how the Wisconsin government is giving back some of their land to the Indians? Stoic: Oh for Pete Sake. That war is long over, and we are getting along fine.
Another day-- Stoic: Listen to those shovels! They are finishing my work! Me: No, honey, they are digging your grave.
Another day-- Me: They say that faith is belief in things not seen. Stoic: Ha. Sounds pretty magic to me! Me: But if you trust that the creative power of God is in charge, you can have hope that the future is open, and we can act! Stoic: Naptime now.
Karen Bueno
-----Original Message----- From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: OE Listserve <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Dialogue List <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> Sent: Thu, Jan 20, 2022 5:27 pm Subject: [Dialogue] Stoicism
Dear colleagues,
I need help with an idea I’m trying to sort out. If you have the time and inclination, I would love to hear from you on the following:
Saying Yes to life and Stoicism. Stoicism seems to be understood as a relationship to life where you keep going on despite the odds. There is also an inuendo that this may not be humanly possible and that internal pressures will eventually cause the person to crash. What I want to know is, was that the Stoicism that Zeno founded or merely a degraded understanding? Why did we as an Order cast it in a negative light? What was our beef with it? Was it a reaction to the degraded form or were we looking at it in its original sense?
regards Dharma _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing listOE@lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
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We studied Michael Dowd's books at the church from which we retired, have been to several of his seminars with his wife Connie Barlow and hosted them for an event at our church in 2009. That was when he and his wife were travelling "evolutionary evangelists" and living out of van with a "Christian fish symbol and Darwin Fish symbol kissing each other" bumper sticker on the side of the van. He and his work continue to evolve. Ellie elliestock@aol.com -----Original Message----- From: Jim via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Milan Hamilton via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Jim <wtw0bl@new.rr.com> Sent: Fri, Jan 21, 2022 9:47 am Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Stoicism I, too, have found Micheal Dowd's "Post-doom" series to be both helpful and inspiring. I have tried answering some of the questions he asks his guests such as: What are you known for? What are you passionate about? What are you concerned about? What was your world view growing up? His mantra is: Grief, Grounding and Gratitude. One of his mentors is William Catton whom he often quotes. He reads meaningful books like Overshoot which can be downloaded from youtube.com using RealPlayer. Dowd is an ordained minister. He is a Pro-Future Evangelist. ProFuture Faith. Jim Baumbach On 1/21/2022 12:49 AM, Milan Hamilton via OE wrote: I majored in philosophy also and especially Studied Kierkegaard with one of the preeminent American teachers of SK, But can’t say I got much beyond the surface until RS-1. I do think there was more depth to Stoicism as a philosophy than hearing the word elicits in our psyche. But as to offering a way into the question Dharma is raising, I would suggest reading Jem Bendell’s Deep Adaptation paper and if interested getting into the conversation on the Deep Adaptation Forum; secondly, Michael Dowd’s “Post Doom” series of 78 fifty minute interviews on You Tube with all sorts of climate scientists and writers, as well as some of his own videos; third, check out Joanna Macy’s “The Work that Reconnects.” These are some resources we have found helpful to avoid getting stuck in one or more of the philosophy rabbit holes,Stoicism being only one of them. Humbly, Milan H. Sent from my iPad On Jan 20, 2022, at 10:20 PM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Thanks everyone for your responses. Some of these touched on what is happening to our planet, which is also what triggered my question. It is clear that we have pushed our biosphere over the tipping point into a trajectory that will bring mass extinctions, perhaps even that of our species, in its wake. Whatever we do cannot change this, at least till after several decades. So whatever good we do, we won’t be around to see its result. So the question for me is what does it mean to say Yes to life in this situation and to live out of that stance. To use a metaphor, if we are led to the gallows, can we approach it saying Yes to what our life has been and what is going happen? By “can we”, I mean how do we generate the courage and spirit for this. A related question, how do we tell others what is in store truthfully and yet not leave them without hope or drive? If we live like this, could it be described (in a positive way) as Stoicism? I remember we seemed to have reservations about this during our RS1 courses. But I’m not sure whether they were about the popular understanding of Stoicism, as Karen illustrates in her email, or something deeper in that philosophy. Dharma On Friday, 21 January 2022, 11:17:28 am MYT, James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Does anyone recall (have notes on) the lecture introductions from RS-1? They were quick and insightful, and I don't find anything in our archives on them . . . One intro, maybe on Saturday afternoon -- would have been an intro to the freedom lecture / section / holy spirit / life style was a series of little triangles . . . Everyone lives out of some sense of their final reality What am I upagainst in life? what is my situation? and they have "A word" that releases them -- gives me the capacity to live and a life style that comes out of that Anyway, I think one of them was the final reality is bad, and the word was just survive, and the life style was the stoic I don't quite remember the other ones . . . and the one course I had on philosophy did not emphasize the stoics. Jim Wiegel The unknown is what is. And to be frightened of it is what sends everybody scurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, all that. Unknown is what is. Accept that it's unknown, and it's plain sailing. John Lennon 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 07:54:09 PM MST, Karenbueno via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Stoic: I'm fine. Me: Are you telling the truth? Stoic: Well, even if I hurt, what can I do. I will just bear it. Me: Have you tried what the doctor advised? Stoic: Oh, I probably will soon. Stop worrying about me. I'm fine. Another day-- Stoic: I don't see how we need to worry about climate change. It will destroy us and the rest of life on the planet soon. Me: But shouldn't we do a few actions that might help. Stoic: Oh, we are too far gone. The oceans are rising, the ice is about gone. We might as well just enjoy the life we have. Me: but what about our kids and grandkids and their kids? Stoic: Look. We are human. The planet it too far gone. We may as well just accept it. Another day-- Stoic: Well, I think we have gone as far as we can to abolish racism in the United States. Me: I think there is still a lot of suffering from racism. I think we should find some way to pay reparations. Stoic: You pay for it. I have some other things I want to do with our money. Another day-- Me: Did you hear about how the Wisconsin government is giving back some of their land to the Indians? Stoic: Oh for Pete Sake. That war is long over, and we are getting along fine. Another day-- Stoic: Listen to those shovels! They are finishing my work! Me: No, honey, they are digging your grave. Another day-- Me: They say that faith is belief in things not seen. Stoic: Ha. Sounds pretty magic to me! Me: But if you trust that the creative power of God is in charge, you can have hope that the future is open, and we can act! Stoic: Naptime now. Karen Bueno -----Original Message----- From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: OE Listserve <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Dialogue List <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby<dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> Sent: Thu, Jan 20, 2022 5:27 pm Subject: [Dialogue] Stoicism Dear colleagues, I need help with an idea I’m trying to sort out. If you have the time and inclination, I would love to hear from you on the following: Saying Yes to life and Stoicism. Stoicism seems to be understood as a relationship to life where you keep going on despite the odds. There is also an inuendo that this may not be humanly possible and that internal pressures will eventually cause the person to crash. What I want to know is, was that the Stoicism that Zeno founded or merely a degraded understanding? Why did we as an Order cast it in a negative light? What was our beef with it? Was it a reaction to the degraded form or were we looking at it in its original sense? regards Dharma _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________OE mailing listOE@lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
- Below are several website for Michael Dowd. If you go to the Great Story website there is a link to Post Doomsday videos/conversations, including a link to open zoom conversations he has on Wednesdays and Saturdays to talk about issues related to the present and future well-being of the planet. Ellie elliestock@aol.com - - The Great Story website (by Connie Barlow and Michael Dowd) www.thegreatstory.org/who_we_are.htmlThe Great Story website (by Connie Barlow and Michael Dowd) Connie Barlow and Michael Dowd, soon after their launch (in 2002) of their itinerant work as "America's Evolutionary Evangelists." ♦ ITINERARY ♦ Contact Barlow and Dowd. ♦ Highlights of this website. "The Good News of Evolution" May 2009. New Dimensions Radio interview. - What Is The Great StoryThe Great Story (also known as the Universe Story, Epic of... - ItineraryItinerary Dowd & Barlow. Rev. Michael Dowd is a bestselling... - Podcast SeriesCOMMENTARY evolutionary sciences and ideas for inspiration... - Writings by Connie BarlowConnie improvised a story to accompany a guest sermon by... - Climate ResourcesAAAS "What We Know About Climate Change" project, published... - Video, Audio, and Text Publications by Michael DowdThe Rev. Michael Dowd is a former pastor and sustainable... - Programs and Presentations by Michael Dowd ... - The Great Story www.thegreatstory.org/programs.htmlCONNIE BARLOW and MICHAEL DOWD offer programs and presentations for a range of audiences and institutions on a variety of topics within these broad areas: Connie: evolutionary ecology (published books & papers by Connie) Michael: "Thank God for Evolution!" - based on his 2008 book by that title - The Great Story (A Reality Based Religion led by Michael Dowd ... un-denial.com/2017/12/19/the-great-story-a...The Great Story (A Reality Based Religion led by Michael Dowd) Michael Dowd recently introduced himself in a comment on one of my blog posts. Reviewing his large body of work has been a pleasant surprise because I thought I was aware of most of the thinkers and activists in the overshoot space, and Dowd has some excellent fresh ideas. - Michael Dowd - Great Transition Stories - - greattransitionstories.org/team/michael-dowd - In December 2010 Rev. Dowd hosted the acclaimed conversation series, “The Advent of Evolutionary Christianity,” and in June 2011 he and Connie launched a 5-week online course with Evolving Wisdom, titled, “Evolutionize Your Life.”. Celebrated by liberals and conservatives alike and uniquely gifted at building bridges between believers and non-believers, Michael shares “The Great Story” — humanity’s common creation story — in ways that uplift and expand heart, mind, and soul. - Standing for the Future - The Great Story thegreatstory.org/standing-for-the-future.htmlBig History — the Epic of Evolution or Universe Story — is humanity's first and only inclusive, globally produced, evidence-based creation story. In this culminating episode, Dowd shows how this Great Story provides clear and compelling guidance to help our species 'obey' (honor) physical and ecological processes that have been at work for hundreds of millions of years. - The Great Story Website created by Connie Barlow thegreatstory.orgVIDEO series AUDIO series. • Story Beads • Timeline • Parables • Death. • Experiential • CLIMATE SCIENCE • Sacred Sites. • The Future Is Calling Us to Greatness (56 interviews) • Classic Quotes • KID's Curricula • North America. - The Author | Thank God For Evolution thankgodforevolution.com/the-authorThe Rev. Michael Dowd, a big integrity / big history / epic of evolution enthusiast, is one of the most inspiring speakers in America today. He is the author of Thank God for Evolution: How the Marriage of Science and Religion Will Transform Your Life and Our World, a book endorsed by 6 Nobel laureates and other science luminaries, including noted skeptics, and by religious leaders across the spectrum. - Related searches michael dowd the great story | michael dowd movie | mike dowd | | michael dowd documentary | michael dowd 75 | | michael dowd wife now | michael dowd documentary online free | | rev michael dowd | where is mike dowd today | - -----Original Message----- From: Milan Hamilton via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Milan Hamilton <mellowmilan2@gmail.com>; dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net Sent: Fri, Jan 21, 2022 12:49 am Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Stoicism I majored in philosophy also and especially Studied Kierkegaard with one of the preeminent American teachers of SK, But can’t say I got much beyond the surface until RS-1. I do think there was more depth to Stoicism as a philosophy than hearing the word elicits in our psyche. But as to offering a way into the question Dharma is raising, I would suggest reading Jem Bendell’s Deep Adaptation paper and if interested getting into the conversation on the Deep Adaptation Forum; secondly, Michael Dowd’s “Post Doom” series of 78 fifty minute interviews on You Tube with all sorts of climate scientists and writers, as well as some of his own videos; third, check out Joanna Macy’s “The Work that Reconnects.” These are some resources we have found helpful to avoid getting stuck in one or more of the philosophy rabbit holes,Stoicism being only one of them.Humbly, Milan H. Sent from my iPad On Jan 20, 2022, at 10:20 PM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Thanks everyone for your responses. Some of these touched on what is happening to our planet, which is also what triggered my question. It is clear that we have pushed our biosphere over the tipping point into a trajectory that will bring mass extinctions, perhaps even that of our species, in its wake. Whatever we do cannot change this, at least till after several decades. So whatever good we do, we won’t be around to see its result.So the question for me is what does it mean to say Yes to life in this situation and to live out of that stance. To use a metaphor, if we are led to the gallows, can we approach it saying Yes to what our life has been and what is going happen? By “can we”, I mean how do we generate the courage and spirit for this. A related question, how do we tell others what is in store truthfully and yet not leave them without hope or drive? If we live like this, could it be described (in a positive way) as Stoicism? I remember we seemed to have reservations about this during our RS1 courses. But I’m not sure whether they were about the popular understanding of Stoicism, as Karen illustrates in her email, or something deeper in that philosophy. Dharma On Friday, 21 January 2022, 11:17:28 am MYT, James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Does anyone recall (have notes on) the lecture introductions from RS-1? They were quick and insightful, and I don't find anything in our archives on them . . . One intro, maybe on Saturday afternoon -- would have been an intro to the freedom lecture / section / holy spirit / life style was a series of little triangles . . . Everyone lives out of some sense of their final reality What am I upagainst in life? what is my situation?and they have "A word" that releases them -- gives me the capacity to liveand a life style that comes out of that Anyway, I think one of them was the final reality is bad, and the word was just survive, and the life style was the stoic I don't quite remember the other ones . . . and the one course I had on philosophy did not emphasize the stoics. Jim Wiegel Theunknown is what is. And to be frightened of it is what sends everybodyscurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, allthat. Unknown is what is. Accept that it's unknown, and it's plainsailing. John Lennon 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353623-363-3277jfwiegel@yahoo.comwww.partnersinparticipation.com On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 07:54:09 PM MST, Karenbueno via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Stoic: I'm fine. Me: Are you telling the truth?Stoic: Well, even if I hurt, what can I do. I will just bear it.Me: Have you tried what the doctor advised?Stoic: Oh, I probably will soon. Stop worrying about me. I'm fine. Another day--Stoic: I don't see how we need to worry about climate change. It will destroy us and the rest of life on the planet soon.Me: But shouldn't we do a few actions that might help.Stoic: Oh, we are too far gone. The oceans are rising, the ice is about gone. We might as well just enjoy the life we have.Me: but what about our kids and grandkids and their kids?Stoic: Look. We are human. The planet it too far gone. We may as well just accept it. Another day--Stoic: Well, I think we have gone as far as we can to abolish racism in the United States.Me: I think there is still a lot of suffering from racism. I think we should find some way to pay reparations.Stoic: You pay for it. I have some other things I want to do with our money. Another day--Me: Did you hear about how the Wisconsin government is giving back some of their land to the Indians?Stoic: Oh for Pete Sake. That war is long over, and we are getting along fine. Another day--Stoic: Listen to those shovels! They are finishing my work!Me: No, honey, they are digging your grave. Another day--Me: They say that faith is belief in things not seen.Stoic: Ha. Sounds pretty magic to me!Me: But if you trust that the creative power of God is in charge, you can have hope that the future is open, and we can act!Stoic: Naptime now. Karen Bueno -----Original Message----- From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: OE Listserve <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Dialogue List <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> Sent: Thu, Jan 20, 2022 5:27 pm Subject: [Dialogue] Stoicism Dear colleagues, I need help with an idea I’m trying to sort out. If you have the time and inclination, I would love to hear from you on the following: Saying Yes to life and Stoicism. Stoicism seems to be understood as a relationship to life where you keep going on despite the odds. There is also an inuendo that this may not be humanly possible and that internal pressures will eventually cause the person to crash. What I want to know is, was that the Stoicism that Zeno founded or merely a degraded understanding? Why did we as an Order cast it in a negative light? What was our beef with it? Was it a reaction to the degraded form or were we looking at it in its original sense? regardsDharma_______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Thanks to all for the continuing series of insights into saying Yes to the crisis we face and communicating it to others. Thanks Milan and Ellie for the references to Michael Dowd, Jem Bendell and Joanna Macy, and Diann for the interview on “Don’t Look Up”. I watched the movie and as its director suggests, it reflects the world’s inability/unwillingness to hear the bad news. I hope movies like this raises self-awareness and makes people more ready to listen. On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 06:33:29 am MYT, Ellie Stock via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: - Below are several website for Michael Dowd. If you go to the Great Story website there is a link to Post Doomsday videos/conversations, including a link to open zoom conversations he has on Wednesdays and Saturdays to talk about issues related to the present and future well-being of the planet. Ellie elliestock@aol.com - - The Great Story website (by Connie Barlow and Michael Dowd) www.thegreatstory.org/who_we_are.htmlThe Great Story website (by Connie Barlow and Michael Dowd) Connie Barlow and Michael Dowd, soon after their launch (in 2002) of their itinerant work as "America's Evolutionary Evangelists." ♦ ITINERARY ♦ Contact Barlow and Dowd. ♦ Highlights of this website. "The Good News of Evolution" May 2009. New Dimensions Radio interview. - What Is The Great StoryThe Great Story (also known as the Universe Story, Epic of... - ItineraryItinerary Dowd & Barlow. Rev. Michael Dowd is a bestselling... - Podcast SeriesCOMMENTARY evolutionary sciences and ideas for inspiration... - Writings by Connie BarlowConnie improvised a story to accompany a guest sermon by... - Climate ResourcesAAAS "What We Know About Climate Change" project, published... - Video, Audio, and Text Publications by Michael DowdThe Rev. Michael Dowd is a former pastor and sustainable... - Programs and Presentations by Michael Dowd ... - The Great Story www.thegreatstory.org/programs.htmlCONNIE BARLOW and MICHAEL DOWD offer programs and presentations for a range of audiences and institutions on a variety of topics within these broad areas: Connie: evolutionary ecology (published books & papers by Connie) Michael: "Thank God for Evolution!" - based on his 2008 book by that title - The Great Story (A Reality Based Religion led by Michael Dowd ... un-denial.com/2017/12/19/the-great-story-a...The Great Story (A Reality Based Religion led by Michael Dowd) Michael Dowd recently introduced himself in a comment on one of my blog posts. Reviewing his large body of work has been a pleasant surprise because I thought I was aware of most of the thinkers and activists in the overshoot space, and Dowd has some excellent fresh ideas. - Michael Dowd - Great Transition Stories - - greattransitionstories.org/team/michael-dowd - In December 2010 Rev. Dowd hosted the acclaimed conversation series, “The Advent of Evolutionary Christianity,” and in June 2011 he and Connie launched a 5-week online course with Evolving Wisdom, titled, “Evolutionize Your Life.”. Celebrated by liberals and conservatives alike and uniquely gifted at building bridges between believers and non-believers, Michael shares “The Great Story” — humanity’s common creation story — in ways that uplift and expand heart, mind, and soul. - Standing for the Future - The Great Story thegreatstory.org/standing-for-the-future.htmlBig History — the Epic of Evolution or Universe Story — is humanity's first and only inclusive, globally produced, evidence-based creation story. In this culminating episode, Dowd shows how this Great Story provides clear and compelling guidance to help our species 'obey' (honor) physical and ecological processes that have been at work for hundreds of millions of years. - The Great Story Website created by Connie Barlow thegreatstory.orgVIDEO series AUDIO series. • Story Beads • Timeline • Parables • Death. • Experiential • CLIMATE SCIENCE • Sacred Sites. • The Future Is Calling Us to Greatness (56 interviews) • Classic Quotes • KID's Curricula • North America. - The Author | Thank God For Evolution thankgodforevolution.com/the-authorThe Rev. Michael Dowd, a big integrity / big history / epic of evolution enthusiast, is one of the most inspiring speakers in America today. He is the author of Thank God for Evolution: How the Marriage of Science and Religion Will Transform Your Life and Our World, a book endorsed by 6 Nobel laureates and other science luminaries, including noted skeptics, and by religious leaders across the spectrum. - Related searches michael dowd the great story | michael dowd movie | mike dowd | | michael dowd documentary | michael dowd 75 | | michael dowd wife now | michael dowd documentary online free | | rev michael dowd | where is mike dowd today | - -----Original Message----- From: Milan Hamilton via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Milan Hamilton <mellowmilan2@gmail.com>; dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net Sent: Fri, Jan 21, 2022 12:49 am Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Stoicism I majored in philosophy also and especially Studied Kierkegaard with one of the preeminent American teachers of SK, But can’t say I got much beyond the surface until RS-1. I do think there was more depth to Stoicism as a philosophy than hearing the word elicits in our psyche. But as to offering a way into the question Dharma is raising, I would suggest reading Jem Bendell’s Deep Adaptation paper and if interested getting into the conversation on the Deep Adaptation Forum; secondly, Michael Dowd’s “Post Doom” series of 78 fifty minute interviews on You Tube with all sorts of climate scientists and writers, as well as some of his own videos; third, check out Joanna Macy’s “The Work that Reconnects.” These are some resources we have found helpful to avoid getting stuck in one or more of the philosophy rabbit holes,Stoicism being only one of them.Humbly, Milan H. Sent from my iPad On Jan 20, 2022, at 10:20 PM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Thanks everyone for your responses. Some of these touched on what is happening to our planet, which is also what triggered my question. It is clear that we have pushed our biosphere over the tipping point into a trajectory that will bring mass extinctions, perhaps even that of our species, in its wake. Whatever we do cannot change this, at least till after several decades. So whatever good we do, we won’t be around to see its result.So the question for me is what does it mean to say Yes to life in this situation and to live out of that stance. To use a metaphor, if we are led to the gallows, can we approach it saying Yes to what our life has been and what is going happen? By “can we”, I mean how do we generate the courage and spirit for this. A related question, how do we tell others what is in store truthfully and yet not leave them without hope or drive? If we live like this, could it be described (in a positive way) as Stoicism? I remember we seemed to have reservations about this during our RS1 courses. But I’m not sure whether they were about the popular understanding of Stoicism, as Karen illustrates in her email, or something deeper in that philosophy. Dharma On Friday, 21 January 2022, 11:17:28 am MYT, James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Does anyone recall (have notes on) the lecture introductions from RS-1? They were quick and insightful, and I don't find anything in our archives on them . . . One intro, maybe on Saturday afternoon -- would have been an intro to the freedom lecture / section / holy spirit / life style was a series of little triangles . . . Everyone lives out of some sense of their final reality What am I upagainst in life? what is my situation?and they have "A word" that releases them -- gives me the capacity to liveand a life style that comes out of that Anyway, I think one of them was the final reality is bad, and the word was just survive, and the life style was the stoic I don't quite remember the other ones . . . and the one course I had on philosophy did not emphasize the stoics. Jim Wiegel Theunknown is what is. And to be frightened of it is what sends everybodyscurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, allthat. Unknown is what is. Accept that it's unknown, and it's plainsailing. John Lennon 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353623-363-3277jfwiegel@yahoo.comwww.partnersinparticipation.com On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 07:54:09 PM MST, Karenbueno via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Stoic: I'm fine. Me: Are you telling the truth?Stoic: Well, even if I hurt, what can I do. I will just bear it.Me: Have you tried what the doctor advised?Stoic: Oh, I probably will soon. Stop worrying about me. I'm fine. Another day--Stoic: I don't see how we need to worry about climate change. It will destroy us and the rest of life on the planet soon.Me: But shouldn't we do a few actions that might help.Stoic: Oh, we are too far gone. The oceans are rising, the ice is about gone. We might as well just enjoy the life we have.Me: but what about our kids and grandkids and their kids?Stoic: Look. We are human. The planet it too far gone. We may as well just accept it. Another day--Stoic: Well, I think we have gone as far as we can to abolish racism in the United States.Me: I think there is still a lot of suffering from racism. I think we should find some way to pay reparations.Stoic: You pay for it. I have some other things I want to do with our money. Another day--Me: Did you hear about how the Wisconsin government is giving back some of their land to the Indians?Stoic: Oh for Pete Sake. That war is long over, and we are getting along fine. Another day--Stoic: Listen to those shovels! They are finishing my work!Me: No, honey, they are digging your grave. Another day--Me: They say that faith is belief in things not seen.Stoic: Ha. Sounds pretty magic to me!Me: But if you trust that the creative power of God is in charge, you can have hope that the future is open, and we can act!Stoic: Naptime now. Karen Bueno -----Original Message----- From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: OE Listserve <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Dialogue List <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> Sent: Thu, Jan 20, 2022 5:27 pm Subject: [Dialogue] Stoicism Dear colleagues, I need help with an idea I’m trying to sort out. If you have the time and inclination, I would love to hear from you on the following: Saying Yes to life and Stoicism. Stoicism seems to be understood as a relationship to life where you keep going on despite the odds. There is also an inuendo that this may not be humanly possible and that internal pressures will eventually cause the person to crash. What I want to know is, was that the Stoicism that Zeno founded or merely a degraded understanding? Why did we as an Order cast it in a negative light? What was our beef with it? Was it a reaction to the degraded form or were we looking at it in its original sense? regardsDharma_______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
participants (8)
-
Beret Griffith -
Dharmalingam Vinasithamby -
Diann McCabe -
Ellie Stock -
James Wiegel -
Jim -
Milan Hamilton -
Nancy Trask