Re: [Oe List ...] Penance is required
Unfortunately, marriage is not necessarily an answer to pedophilia. I have worked with too many clients who lived as children with pedophiliacs - fathers, grandfathers, uncles - all married! -----Original Message----- From: OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of Sarah H. Buss via OE Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 9:33 AM To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net; oe@wedgeblade.net Cc: Sarah H. Buss <shbuss@mac.com> Subject: [Oe List ...] Penance is required A meditative thought: If the Catholic Church is to survive, it must allow priests to marry (and women to be priests). That is it’s penance! Otherwise it will continue to be a magnet for pedophiles. If victims demand it, perhaps this could be a part of their healing process. Others could join in support. Whatever the Catholic Church’s response, it must be radical, structural, and more than empty words. Prayers, prayers, and more prayers, Sarah Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
and not all abusive priests are pedophiles. It’s also not just a structural issue, but a theological one as well. So many seriously screwed up ideas about sex and women believed by these men which, in their minds, justify what happened, or at least leave them not responsible. (e.g. the widely held belief in Evangelical circles that it is the role of women to control men’s uncontrollable sexual urges.) Seth T. Longacre Carlsbad, CA "No one man can terrorize a whole nation unless we are all his accomplices” Edward R. Murrow ———-O0ooo— ———–(——)— ————)–-/—- ————(_/- —-ooo0O—- —-(——)—- —–\-–(– ——\_)-
On Aug 20, 2018, at 12:34 , Del Morrill via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Unfortunately, marriage is not necessarily an answer to pedophilia. I have worked with too many clients who lived as children with pedophiliacs - fathers, grandfathers, uncles - all married!
-----Original Message----- From: OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of Sarah H. Buss via OE Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 9:33 AM To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net; oe@wedgeblade.net Cc: Sarah H. Buss <shbuss@mac.com> Subject: [Oe List ...] Penance is required
A meditative thought: If the Catholic Church is to survive, it must allow priests to marry (and women to be priests). That is it’s penance! Otherwise it will continue to be a magnet for pedophiles. If victims demand it, perhaps this could be a part of their healing process. Others could join in support. Whatever the Catholic Church’s response, it must be radical, structural, and more than empty words. Prayers, prayers, and more prayers, Sarah Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
One of the key Calvinist doctrines helps here - total depravity. We’re all screwed up (want evidence?). So we’d better deal with it. Dealing with it means structures that provide checks and balances, open access points for comment and protection for those of lesser authority while holding accountability for performance in a verifiable system. We didn’t do great with all of that, so I guess that makes us pretty good at figuring out ways to fix messes. But all system (human institutions – remember) are based on unbelief. There is no final fix, but there are ways forward. Question is – the willingness to take on the potential of fracturing the system in doing so. FWIW Bill Schlesinger Project Vida 3607 Rivera Avenue El Paso, TX 79905 (915) 533-7057 ext. 207 www.pvida.net From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Seth Longacre via OE Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 1:40 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community Cc: Seth Longacre Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Penance is required and not all abusive priests are pedophiles. It’s also not just a structural issue, but a theological one as well. So many seriously screwed up ideas about sex and women believed by these men which, in their minds, justify what happened, or at least leave them not responsible. (e.g. the widely held belief in Evangelical circles that it is the role of women to control men’s uncontrollable sexual urges.) Seth T. Longacre Carlsbad, CA "No one man can terrorize a whole nation unless we are all his accomplices” Edward R. Murrow ———-O0ooo— ———–(——)— ————)–-/—- ————(_/- —-ooo0O—- —-(——)—- —–\-–(– ——\_)- On Aug 20, 2018, at 12:34 , Del Morrill via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Unfortunately, marriage is not necessarily an answer to pedophilia. I have worked with too many clients who lived as children with pedophiliacs - fathers, grandfathers, uncles - all married! -----Original Message----- From: OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of Sarah H. Buss via OE Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 9:33 AM To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net; oe@wedgeblade.net Cc: Sarah H. Buss <shbuss@mac.com> Subject: [Oe List ...] Penance is required A meditative thought: If the Catholic Church is to survive, it must allow priests to marry (and women to be priests). That is it’s penance! Otherwise it will continue to be a magnet for pedophiles. If victims demand it, perhaps this could be a part of their healing process. Others could join in support. Whatever the Catholic Church’s response, it must be radical, structural, and more than empty words. Prayers, prayers, and more prayers, Sarah Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Some of the Order colleague comments regarding Penance and more. Elizabeth Engleman englewoman@verizon.net 4000 N Charles ST Baltimore, MD 21218 -----Original Message----- From: Bill Schlesinger via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: 'Order Ecumenical Community' <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Bill Schlesinger <w.schlesinger@pvida.net> Sent: Mon, Aug 20, 2018 3:47 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Penance is required One of the key Calvinist doctrines helps here - total depravity. We’re all screwed up (want evidence?). So we’d better deal with it. Dealing with it means structures that provide checks and balances, open access points for comment and protection for those of lesser authority while holding accountability for performance in a verifiable system. We didn’t do great with all of that, so I guess that makes us pretty good at figuring out ways to fix messes. But all system (human institutions – remember) are based on unbelief. There is no final fix, but there are ways forward. Question is – the willingness to take on the potential of fracturing the system in doing so. FWIW Bill Schlesinger Project Vida 3607 Rivera Avenue El Paso, TX 79905 (915) 533-7057 ext. 207 www.pvida.net From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Seth Longacre via OE Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 1:40 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community Cc: Seth Longacre Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Penance is required and not all abusive priests are pedophiles. It’s also not just a structural issue, but a theological one as well. So many seriously screwed up ideas about sex and women believed by these men which, in their minds, justify what happened, or at least leave them not responsible. (e.g. the widely held belief in Evangelical circles that it is the role of women to control men’s uncontrollable sexual urges.) Seth T. Longacre Carlsbad, CA "No one man can terrorize a whole nation unless we are all his accomplices” Edward R. Murrow ———-O0ooo— ———–(——)— ————)–-/—- ————(_/- —-ooo0O—- —-(——)—- —–\-–(– ——\_)- On Aug 20, 2018, at 12:34 , Del Morrill via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Unfortunately, marriage is not necessarily an answer to pedophilia. I have worked with too many clients who lived as children with pedophiliacs - fathers, grandfathers, uncles - all married! -----Original Message----- From: OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of Sarah H. Buss via OE Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 9:33 AM To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net; oe@wedgeblade.net Cc: Sarah H. Buss <shbuss@mac.com> Subject: [Oe List ...] Penance is required A meditative thought: If the Catholic Church is to survive, it must allow priests to marry (and women to be priests). That is it’s penance! Otherwise it will continue to be a magnet for pedophiles. If victims demand it, perhaps this could be a part of their healing process. Others could join in support. Whatever the Catholic Church’s response, it must be radical, structural, and more than empty words. Prayers, prayers, and more prayers, Sarah Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
https://nyti.ms/2MCe6I6 NYT Opinion written from the inside... Elizabeth Engleman englewoman@verizon.net 4000 N Charles ST Baltimore, MD 21218 -----Original Message----- From: Bill Schlesinger via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: 'Order Ecumenical Community' <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Bill Schlesinger <w.schlesinger@pvida.net> Sent: Mon, Aug 20, 2018 3:47 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Penance is required One of the key Calvinist doctrines helps here - total depravity. We’re all screwed up (want evidence?). So we’d better deal with it. Dealing with it means structures that provide checks and balances, open access points for comment and protection for those of lesser authority while holding accountability for performance in a verifiable system. We didn’t do great with all of that, so I guess that makes us pretty good at figuring out ways to fix messes. But all system (human institutions – remember) are based on unbelief. There is no final fix, but there are ways forward. Question is – the willingness to take on the potential of fracturing the system in doing so. FWIW Bill Schlesinger Project Vida 3607 Rivera Avenue El Paso, TX 79905 (915) 533-7057 ext. 207 www.pvida.net From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Seth Longacre via OE Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 1:40 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community Cc: Seth Longacre Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Penance is required and not all abusive priests are pedophiles. It’s also not just a structural issue, but a theological one as well. So many seriously screwed up ideas about sex and women believed by these men which, in their minds, justify what happened, or at least leave them not responsible. (e.g. the widely held belief in Evangelical circles that it is the role of women to control men’s uncontrollable sexual urges.) Seth T. Longacre Carlsbad, CA "No one man can terrorize a whole nation unless we are all his accomplices” Edward R. Murrow ———-O0ooo— ———–(——)— ————)–-/—- ————(_/- —-ooo0O—- —-(——)—- —–\-–(– ——\_)- On Aug 20, 2018, at 12:34 , Del Morrill via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Unfortunately, marriage is not necessarily an answer to pedophilia. I have worked with too many clients who lived as children with pedophiliacs - fathers, grandfathers, uncles - all married! -----Original Message----- From: OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of Sarah H. Buss via OE Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 9:33 AM To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net; oe@wedgeblade.net Cc: Sarah H. Buss <shbuss@mac.com> Subject: [Oe List ...] Penance is required A meditative thought: If the Catholic Church is to survive, it must allow priests to marry (and women to be priests). That is it’s penance! Otherwise it will continue to be a magnet for pedophiles. If victims demand it, perhaps this could be a part of their healing process. Others could join in support. Whatever the Catholic Church’s response, it must be radical, structural, and more than empty words. Prayers, prayers, and more prayers, Sarah Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Less we get too high and mighty (“THEY have a problem”) remember what we know now about child abuse, sexual and other wise in the Order Ecumenical, to name one dear to us. Being a family order with married folks is no surety! Thank you, Bill for your words. Mary Hampton Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Bill Schlesinger via OE Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 2:47 PM To: 'Order Ecumenical Community' Cc: Bill Schlesinger Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Penance is required One of the key Calvinist doctrines helps here - total depravity. We’re all screwed up (want evidence?). So we’d better deal with it. Dealing with it means structures that provide checks and balances, open access points for comment and protection for those of lesser authority while holding accountability for performance in a verifiable system. We didn’t do great with all of that, so I guess that makes us pretty good at figuring out ways to fix messes. But all system (human institutions – remember) are based on unbelief. There is no final fix, but there are ways forward. Question is – the willingness to take on the potential of fracturing the system in doing so. FWIW Bill Schlesinger Project Vida 3607 Rivera Avenue El Paso, TX 79905 (915) 533-7057 ext. 207 www.pvida.net From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Seth Longacre via OE Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 1:40 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community Cc: Seth Longacre Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Penance is required and not all abusive priests are pedophiles. It’s also not just a structural issue, but a theological one as well. So many seriously screwed up ideas about sex and women believed by these men which, in their minds, justify what happened, or at least leave them not responsible. (e.g. the widely held belief in Evangelical circles that it is the role of women to control men’s uncontrollable sexual urges.) Seth T. Longacre Carlsbad, CA "No one man can terrorize a whole nation unless we are all his accomplices” Edward R. Murrow ———-O0ooo— ———–(——)— ————)–-/—- ————(_/- —-ooo0O—- —-(——)—- —–\-–(– ——\_)- On Aug 20, 2018, at 12:34 , Del Morrill via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Unfortunately, marriage is not necessarily an answer to pedophilia. I have worked with too many clients who lived as children with pedophiliacs - fathers, grandfathers, uncles - all married! -----Original Message----- From: OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of Sarah H. Buss via OE Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 9:33 AM To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net; oe@wedgeblade.net Cc: Sarah H. Buss <shbuss@mac.com> Subject: [Oe List ...] Penance is required A meditative thought: If the Catholic Church is to survive, it must allow priests to marry (and women to be priests). That is it’s penance! Otherwise it will continue to be a magnet for pedophiles. If victims demand it, perhaps this could be a part of their healing process. Others could join in support. Whatever the Catholic Church’s response, it must be radical, structural, and more than empty words. Prayers, prayers, and more prayers, Sarah Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
I absolutely agree. That was not my point. Sorry to miscommunicate. Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 20, 2018, at 2:34 PM, Del Morrill via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Unfortunately, marriage is not necessarily an answer to pedophilia. I have worked with too many clients who lived as children with pedophiliacs - fathers, grandfathers, uncles - all married!
-----Original Message----- From: OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of Sarah H. Buss via OE Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 9:33 AM To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net; oe@wedgeblade.net Cc: Sarah H. Buss <shbuss@mac.com> Subject: [Oe List ...] Penance is required
A meditative thought: If the Catholic Church is to survive, it must allow priests to marry (and women to be priests). That is it’s penance! Otherwise it will continue to be a magnet for pedophiles. If victims demand it, perhaps this could be a part of their healing process. Others could join in support. Whatever the Catholic Church’s response, it must be radical, structural, and more than empty words. Prayers, prayers, and more prayers, Sarah Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
participants (6)
-
Bill Schlesinger -
Del Morrill -
englewoman＠verizon.net -
mary hampton -
Sarah H. Buss -
Seth Longacre