Re: [Oe List ...] Fwd: more Moore!
I've been contemplating what it means to live in Oneness, in the UNI-verse, especially since reading Power vs. Force David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D. He says there is no opposite of Love. There is Love and the absence of Love. So care-less-ness, obliviousness, unconsciousness, numbness, ignorance are all manifestations of the absence of compassion. In a way, it's a word game, but I find it helpful. Hope you do. Blessings, Jann In a message dated 12/30/2012 9:31:18 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, geowanda@earthlink.net writes: On Dec 30, 2012, at 11:09 AM, R Williams <_rcwmbw@yahoo.com_ (mailto:rcwmbw@yahoo.com) > wrote: John, Of course you are correct about care. Ever since I saw Thomas Merton's quote, "Compassion is the keen awareness of the interdependence of all living things," I've tried to articulate for myself what would be the opposite of compassion as arrogance is of humility and greed is of gratitude. I've thought of obliviousness, unconsciousness, numbness, ignorance? My using care-less-ness was really a take off on what John McKnight describes in his book The Careless Society. None of these completely does it for me, so give me some help here. What would be the opposite, or antithesis, of compassion? Would appreciate your insight. Anyone else care to jump in on this? Randy
Jann, This may be just a word game with little practical worth. But it is reflective and at least mildly expansive of the imagination. John Cock and I have been having a running conversation on "power vs. energy." I keep saying, among other differences, that power is bestowed from outside (title, position, money) and energy is invoked from within (inspired, inspiritus, of the spirit.) Had not thought of drawing a distinction between power and force. On the antithesis of compassion, I've been thinking more on what John Epps said about everyone cares. I know that's true, but maybe it is also true that we priortize our care and from time to time we may care more about self than we care about the other, in which case the opposite could be egocentricity. Using Merton's insight about compassion as the awareness of interdependence, maybe to not be aware of interdependence is what we meant when we talked about the contradiction of individualistic overemphasis. So maybe the opposite of compassion is individualism. I'm even thinking that caring for that which does not ultimate deserve care is a form of idolatry, so maybe the opposite of compassion is idolatry. As you may sense, all these are more questions than statements of any kind of certainty. Randy "Whatever the problem, community is the answer. There is no power greater than a community discovering what it cares about." Margaret Wheatley ________________________________ From: "LAURELCG@aol.com" <LAURELCG@aol.com> To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Fwd: more Moore! I've been contemplating what it means to live in Oneness, in the UNI-verse, especially since reading Power vs. Force David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D. He says there is no opposite of Love. There is Love and the absence of Love. So care-less-ness, obliviousness, unconsciousness, numbness, ignorance are all manifestations of the absence of compassion. In a way, it's a word game, but I find it helpful. Hope you do. Blessings, Jann In a message dated 12/30/2012 9:31:18 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, geowanda@earthlink.net writes: On Dec 30, 2012, at 11:09 AM, R Williams <rcwmbw@yahoo.com> wrote:
John,
Of course you are correct about care. Ever since I saw Thomas Merton's quote, "Compassion is the keen awareness of the interdependence of all living things," I've tried to articulate for myself what would be the opposite of compassion as arrogance is of humility and greed is of gratitude. I've thought of obliviousness, unconsciousness, numbness, ignorance? My using care-less-ness was really a take off on what John McKnight describes in his book The Careless Society. None of these completely does it for me, so give me some help here. What would be the opposite, or antithesis, of compassion? Would appreciate your insight. Anyone else care to jump in on this? Randy
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Thanks for this dialogue.just one comment on the method : Using the term "vs." connotes "either-or"; and assume a degree of duality of separate ideas.a perfectly valid approach to dialogue. We can also use "both-and". Think of a venn diagram with, for example, Power in one circle and Energy in the other.and then add the area of overlap to the discussion. The some additional questions arise: What is the energy of power? and; Where is the power of energy? From: oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of R Williams Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 6:52 AM To: Order Ecumenical Community Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Fwd: more Moore! Jann, This may be just a word game with little practical worth. But it is reflective and at least mildly expansive of the imagination. John Cock and I have been having a running conversation on "power vs. energy." I keep saying, among other differences, that power is bestowed from outside (title, position, money) and energy is invoked from within (inspired, inspiritus, of the spirit.) Had not thought of drawing a distinction between power and force. On the antithesis of compassion, I've been thinking more on what John Epps said about everyone cares. I know that's true, but maybe it is also true that we priortize our care and from time to time we may care more about self than we care about the other, in which case the opposite could be egocentricity. Using Merton's insight about compassion as the awareness of interdependence, maybe to not be aware of interdependence is what we meant when we talked about the contradiction of individualistic overemphasis. So maybe the opposite of compassion is individualism. I'm even thinking that caring for that which does not ultimate deserve care is a form of idolatry, so maybe the opposite of compassion is idolatry. As you may sense, all these are more questions than statements of any kind of certainty. Randy "Whatever the problem, community is the answer. There is no power greater than a community discovering what it cares about." Margaret Wheatley From: "LAURELCG@aol.com" <LAURELCG@aol.com> To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Fwd: more Moore! I've been contemplating what it means to live in Oneness, in the UNI-verse, especially since reading Power vs. Force David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D. He says there is no opposite of Love. There is Love and the absence of Love. So care-less-ness, obliviousness, unconsciousness, numbness, ignorance are all manifestations of the absence of compassion. In a way, it's a word game, but I find it helpful. Hope you do. Blessings, Jann In a message dated 12/30/2012 9:31:18 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, geowanda@earthlink.net writes: On Dec 30, 2012, at 11:09 AM, R Williams <rcwmbw@yahoo.com> wrote: John, Of course you are correct about care. Ever since I saw Thomas Merton's quote, "Compassion is the keen awareness of the interdependence of all living things," I've tried to articulate for myself what would be the opposite of compassion as arrogance is of humility and greed is of gratitude. I've thought of obliviousness, unconsciousness, numbness, ignorance? My using care-less-ness was really a take off on what John McKnight describes in his book The Careless Society. None of these completely does it for me, so give me some help here. What would be the opposite, or antithesis, of compassion? Would appreciate your insight. Anyone else care to jump in on this? Randy _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
I am of the opinion our American culture prefers the binary approach to things: winner loser, black white, yes no--all somewhat versus. I prefer to think of spectrums and the along one line there are two ends. For instance for me, the love spectrum has love at one end and ignorance at the other, as in the Amish culture where the last thing you want to have happen to you is to be shamed. And to John's point about we all care. I believe we all care. However, to care comprehensively takes a great deal of spiritual muscle, or as Ken Wilber would say, takes advancing to higher levels of consciousness. To move to ever greater levels of consciousness, is to increase one's boundary of care/compassion until we embrace all of life as it is. Until I get to that point, I may not care for broccoli, or Muslims, or or or. It is not that I don't care, it is that I have not grown in wisdom and understanding and my care has limits. I grew up thinking the two ends of this spectrum were love and hate. As I have grown older I have changed my mind. Compassion at one end and maybe hate at the other end. What replaces compassion (the ability to accept a person as they are) as ones compassion decreases? On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 10:06 AM, Sherwood Shankland < sherwoodshankland@comcast.net> wrote:
Thanks for this dialogue…just one comment on the method : Using the term “vs.” connotes “either-or”; and assume a degree of duality of separate ideas…a perfectly valid approach to dialogue. We can also use “both-and”. Think of a venn diagram with, for example, Power in one circle and Energy in the other…and then add the area of overlap to the discussion. The some additional questions arise: What is the energy of power? and; Where is the power of energy? ****
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*From:* oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net [mailto: oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] *On Behalf Of *R Williams *Sent:* Monday, December 31, 2012 6:52 AM *To:* Order Ecumenical Community
*Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] Fwd: more Moore!****
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Jann,****
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This may be just a word game with little practical worth. But it is reflective and at least mildly expansive of the imagination. John Cock and I have been having a running conversation on "power vs. energy." I keep saying, among other differences, that power is bestowed from outside (title, position, money) and energy is invoked from within (inspired, * inspiritus*, of the spirit.) Had not thought of drawing a distinction between power and force.****
****
On the antithesis of compassion, I've been thinking more on what John Epps said about everyone cares. I know that's true, but maybe it is also true that we priortize our care and from time to time we may care more about self than we care about the other, in which case the opposite could be egocentricity. Using Merton's insight about compassion as the awareness of interdependence, maybe to *not* be aware of interdependence is what we meant when we talked about the contradiction of individualistic overemphasis. So maybe the opposite of compassion is individual*ism*. I'm even thinking that caring for that which does not ultimate deserve care is a form of idolatry, so maybe the opposite of compassion is idolatry.*** *
****
As you may sense, all these are more questions than statements of any kind of certainty.****
****
Randy****
****
****
****
*"Whatever the problem, community is the answer. There is no power greater than a community discovering what it cares about." *Margaret Wheatley****
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*From:* "LAURELCG@aol.com" <LAURELCG@aol.com> *To:* oe@lists.wedgeblade.net *Sent:* Sunday, December 30, 2012 9:00 PM *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] Fwd: more Moore!****
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I've been contemplating what it means to live in Oneness, in the UNI-verse, especially since reading *Power vs. Force *David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D. He says there is no opposite of Love. There is Love and the absence of Love. So care-less-ness, obliviousness, unconsciousness, numbness, ignorance are all manifestations of the absence of compassion. In a way, it's a word game, but I find it helpful. Hope you do. ****
****
Blessings,****
Jann****
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In a message dated 12/30/2012 9:31:18 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, geowanda@earthlink.net writes:****
On Dec 30, 2012, at 11:09 AM, R Williams <rcwmbw@yahoo.com> wrote:****
John,****
****
Of course you are correct about care. Ever since I saw Thomas Merton's quote, "Compassion is the keen awareness of the interdependence of all living things," I've tried to articulate for myself what would be the opposite of compassion as arrogance is of humility and greed is of gratitude. I've thought of obliviousness, unconsciousness, numbness, ignorance? My using care-less-ness was really a take off on what John McKnight describes in his book *The Careless Society. *None of these completely does it for me, so give me some help here. What would be the opposite, or antithesis, of compassion? Would appreciate your insight. Anyone else care to jump in on this?****
****
Randy****
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
****
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
participants (4)
-
Don Bushman -
LAURELCG＠aol.com -
R Williams -
Sherwood Shankland