I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
from the point of view of Imaginal Education and Imaginal Learning. As I heard it, he asked Is there a difference between an Art Form Conversation and ORID question - and- someone just mentioned a "spirit question". What is the difference between an art form conversation, an ORID conversation, a spirit question? Jan Sanders, I know, was recently asked by her teachers and principles at Aruba University why the conversation was called "art form" conversation. It sent her looking back into Brian Stanfield's work and Susan Langer's cultural mythology and meaning making. Does someone have a generous answer? -- Steve Harrington
Me: “Where did the art form methodology come from? David McKlesky: “Rudolf Bultman. This is his method of scriptural grounding.” k On Dec 10, 2015, at 6:09 PM, steve har via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: from the point of view of Imaginal Education and Imaginal Learning. As I heard it, he asked Is there a difference between an Art Form Conversation and ORID question - and- someone just mentioned a "spirit question". What is the difference between an art form conversation, an ORID conversation, a spirit question? Jan Sanders, I know, was recently asked by her teachers and principles at Aruba University why the conversation was called "art form" conversation. It sent her looking back into Brian Stanfield's work and Susan Langer's cultural mythology and meaning making. Does someone have a generous answer? -- Steve Harrington _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
A few notes on "art-form" and ORID conversations...In the 60's and 70's the Ecumenical Institute and its faculty from the Faith and Life community at UT Austin, conducted conversation about the impact of works of art. Notably Picaso's Guernica - impressions of saturation bombing; and the film Requim for a Heavyweight staring Anthony Quinn as the washed up boxer who decides that even he can live his life... The focus of these two conversations was not to teach anything directly but rather to allow the participants of the RS-I (Religious Studies - I seminar) to experience their experience of the painting and the film. As pedegogs we were listening to the participants' responses for their theological views, which could guide us in guiding the following sessions of the 44 hour weekend course. I'm not sure when we formulated the ORID format - Marylin Olyer should know :-) but I associate ORID with our formalizing of facilitator skills training courses and the manuals for Group Facilitation Methods (now ToP Facilitation Methods) and Participatory Strategic Planning (now ToP Strategic Planning). Personally I think that the earlier titles / branding "GFM" and "PSP" are much more self-descriptive and clearer for marketing purposes. I suppose we could use both: "ToP - Group Facilitation Methods"; and "ToP - Participatory Strategic Planning". Happy Holidays to All.../ Sherwood (on the road facilitating workshop on agricultural development in Kazakhstan and Kyrgykstan...back home Dec 18th.) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Fisher via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: "Steve Harrington" <stevehar11201@gmail.com> Cc: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, "ICA" <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 6:59:28 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday Me: “Where did the art form methodology come from? David McKlesky: “Rudolf Bultman. This is his method of scriptural grounding.” k On Dec 10, 2015, at 6:09 PM, steve har via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: from the point of view of Imaginal Education and Imaginal Learning. As I heard it, he asked Is there a difference between an Art Form Conversation and ORID question - and- someone just mentioned a "spirit question". What is the difference between an art form conversation, an ORID conversation, a spirit question? Jan Sanders, I know, was recently asked by her teachers and principles at Aruba University why the conversation was called "art form" conversation. It sent her looking back into Brian Stanfield's work and Susan Langer's cultural mythology and meaning making. Does someone have a generous answer? -- Steve Harrington _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
In the mid-80's, Gene Marshall published a binder with different conversation and workshop methods spelled out, for use by House Churches. Think I still have my copy in the garage. Jann McGuire -----Original Message----- From: Sherwood Shankland via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com> Cc: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; ICA <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Thu, Dec 10, 2015 7:04 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday A few notes on "art-form" and ORID conversations...In the 60's and 70's the Ecumenical Institute and its faculty from the Faith and Life community at UT Austin, conducted conversation about the impact of works of art. Notably Picaso's Guernica - impressions of saturation bombing; and the film Requim for a Heavyweight staring Anthony Quinn as the washed up boxer who decides that even he can live his life... The focus of these two conversations was not to teach anything directly but rather to allow the participants of the RS-I (Religious Studies - I seminar) to experience their experience of the painting and the film. As pedegogs we were listening to the participants' responses for their theological views, which could guide us in guiding the following sessions of the 44 hour weekend course. I'm not sure when we formulated the ORID format - Marylin Olyer should know :-) but I associate ORID with our formalizing of facilitator skills training courses and the manuals for Group Facilitation Methods (now ToP Facilitation Methods) and Participatory Strategic Planning (now ToP Strategic Planning). Personally I think that the earlier titles / branding "GFM" and "PSP" are much more self-descriptive and clearer for marketing purposes. I suppose we could use both: "ToP - Group Facilitation Methods"; and "ToP - Participatory Strategic Planning". Happy Holidays to All.../ Sherwood (on the road facilitating workshop on agricultural development in Kazakhstan and Kyrgykstan...back home Dec 18th.) From: "Ken Fisher via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: "Steve Harrington" <stevehar11201@gmail.com> Cc: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, "ICA" <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 6:59:28 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday Me: “Where did the art form methodology come from? David McKlesky: “Rudolf Bultman. This is his method of scriptural grounding.” k On Dec 10, 2015, at 6:09 PM, steve har via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: from the point of view of Imaginal Education and Imaginal Learning. As I heard it, he asked Is there a difference between an Art Form Conversation and ORID question - and- someone just mentioned a "spirit question". What is the difference between an art form conversation, an ORID conversation, a spirit question? Jan Sanders, I know, was recently asked by her teachers and principles at Aruba University why the conversation was called "art form" conversation. It sent her looking back into Brian Stanfield's work and Susan Langer's cultural mythology and meaning making. Does someone have a generous answer? -- Steve Harrington _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
The art form has a lot of similarity to Dietrich Bonhoeffer's process for making responsible decisions: observe, judge, weigh-up, decide, act Randy Sent from my iPad
On Dec 11, 2015, at 12:03 AM, via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
In the mid-80's, Gene Marshall published a binder with different conversation and workshop methods spelled out, for use by House Churches. Think I still have my copy in the garage.
Jann McGuire
-----Original Message----- From: Sherwood Shankland via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com> Cc: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; ICA <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Thu, Dec 10, 2015 7:04 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
A few notes on "art-form" and ORID conversations...In the 60's and 70's the Ecumenical Institute and its faculty from the Faith and Life community at UT Austin, conducted conversation about the impact of works of art. Notably Picaso's Guernica - impressions of saturation bombing; and the film Requim for a Heavyweight staring Anthony Quinn as the washed up boxer who decides that even he can live his life... The focus of these two conversations was not to teach anything directly but rather to allow the participants of the RS-I (Religious Studies - I seminar) to experience their experience of the painting and the film. As pedegogs we were listening to the participants' responses for their theological views, which could guide us in guiding the following sessions of the 44 hour weekend course.
I'm not sure when we formulated the ORID format - Marylin Olyer should know :-) but I associate ORID with our formalizing of facilitator skills training courses and the manuals for Group Facilitation Methods (now ToP Facilitation Methods) and Participatory Strategic Planning (now ToP Strategic Planning). Personally I think that the earlier titles / branding "GFM" and "PSP" are much more self-descriptive and clearer for marketing purposes. I suppose we could use both: "ToP - Group Facilitation Methods"; and "ToP - Participatory Strategic Planning".
Happy Holidays to All.../ Sherwood (on the road facilitating workshop on agricultural development in Kazakhstan and Kyrgykstan...back home Dec 18th.)
From: "Ken Fisher via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: "Steve Harrington" <stevehar11201@gmail.com> Cc: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, "ICA" <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 6:59:28 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
Me: “Where did the art form methodology come from?
David McKlesky: “Rudolf Bultman. This is his method of scriptural grounding.”
k
On Dec 10, 2015, at 6:09 PM, steve har via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
from the point of view of Imaginal Education and Imaginal Learning.
As I heard it, he asked Is there a difference between an Art Form Conversation and ORID question - and- someone just mentioned a "spirit question".
What is the difference between an art form conversation, an ORID conversation, a spirit question?
Jan Sanders, I know, was recently asked by her teachers and principles at Aruba University why the conversation was called "art form" conversation. It sent her looking back into Brian Stanfield's work and Susan Langer's cultural mythology and meaning making.
Does someone have a generous answer?
-- Steve Harrington _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Some more background naming conventions of conversation methods. The current best practice of ToP Network (TTN) trainers is to refer to the Focused Conversation Method which has four levels, O.R.I.D. *Winning Through Participation* published in 1989 refers to The Focused Conversation Method, with four levels Objective, Reflective, Interpretive, Decisional. Brian Stanfield's book, *The Art of Focused Conversation*, *100 Ways to Access Group Wisdom in the Workplace*, published in 2000, gives some background and says, "*The questions have changed slightly, but the method remains the same. It is the art form method with a new name, the Focused Conversation." (from the Introduction). * Documents from Golden Pathways: - From an old Spirit Methods Manual https://wedgeblade.net/gold_path/data/meth/10041501.htm - A document from summer 1972, CONVERSATION: RELATIONSHIPS/COMPARISONS https://wedgeblade.net/gold_path/data/hisj/100551.htm - A talk: SPIRIT METHODS:Spirit, Gospels, and Psalm Conversations https://wedgeblade.net/gold_path/data/meth/100439.htm by George West Eagerly awaiting for completion of "Getting to the Bottom of ToP" for linking in the Chronological History. Beret On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 6:42 AM, Randy Williams via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
The art form has a lot of similarity to Dietrich Bonhoeffer's process for making responsible decisions: observe, judge, weigh-up, decide, act Randy
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 11, 2015, at 12:03 AM, via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
In the mid-80's, Gene Marshall published a binder with different conversation and workshop methods spelled out, for use by *House Churches*. Think I still have my copy in the garage.
Jann McGuire
-----Original Message----- From: Sherwood Shankland via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com> Cc: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; ICA < ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Thu, Dec 10, 2015 7:04 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
A few notes on "art-form" and ORID conversations...In the 60's and 70's the Ecumenical Institute and its faculty from the Faith and Life community at UT Austin, conducted conversation about the impact of works of art. Notably Picaso's Guernica - impressions of saturation bombing; and the film Requim for a Heavyweight staring Anthony Quinn as the washed up boxer who decides that even he can live his life... The focus of these two conversations was not to teach anything directly but rather to allow the participants of the RS-I (Religious Studies - I seminar) to experience their experience of the painting and the film. As pedegogs we were listening to the participants' responses for their theological views, which could guide us in guiding the following sessions of the 44 hour weekend course.
I'm not sure when we formulated the ORID format - Marylin Olyer should know :-) but I associate ORID with our formalizing of facilitator skills training courses and the manuals for Group Facilitation Methods (now ToP Facilitation Methods) and Participatory Strategic Planning (now ToP Strategic Planning). Personally I think that the earlier titles / branding "GFM" and "PSP" are much more self-descriptive and clearer for marketing purposes. I suppose we could use both: "ToP - Group Facilitation Methods"; and "ToP - Participatory Strategic Planning".
Happy Holidays to All.../ Sherwood (on the road facilitating workshop on agricultural development in Kazakhstan and Kyrgykstan...back home Dec 18th.)
------------------------------ *From: *"Ken Fisher via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> *To: *"Steve Harrington" <stevehar11201@gmail.com> *Cc: *"Order Ecumenical Community" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, "ICA" < ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> *Sent: *Friday, December 11, 2015 6:59:28 AM *Subject: *Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
Me: “Where did the art form methodology come from?
David McKlesky: “Rudolf Bultman. This is his method of scriptural grounding.”
k
On Dec 10, 2015, at 6:09 PM, steve har via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
from the point of view of Imaginal Education and Imaginal Learning.
As I heard it, he asked Is there a difference between an Art Form Conversation and ORID question - and- someone just mentioned a "spirit question".
What is the difference between an art form conversation, an ORID conversation, a spirit question?
Jan Sanders, I know, was recently asked by her teachers and principles at Aruba University why the conversation was called "art form" conversation. It sent her looking back into Brian Stanfield's work and Susan Langer's cultural mythology and meaning making.
Does someone have a generous answer?
-- Steve Harrington _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Sorry guys I don't take Steve's Q about distinguishing conversations to be about naming conventions or book references, but about context and outcome and purpose of specific people. ORID is procedural and often assembles view points into specific client's private knowledge framework. It is the work-a-day craft of a facilitator. Jack Gilles says ORID has become in practice ORI -there is no D no decision just more layers of O. On the other hand some one like Krista Tippit may use similar maybe even identical questions but the intent and impact of the discourse is very different. The Qs and As and expression and the depth of sharing is very different. Loren says the teachers love ICA "wisdom conversations" because they touch into local beliefs, shared cultural memories and roots. Wondering if we shouldn't honor the differences implied in Steve E's Q re procedure, art, spirit. Maybe ORID should go back to ORIT where it began? Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 11, 2015, at 4:23 PM, Beret Griffith via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Some more background naming conventions of conversation methods.
The current best practice of ToP Network (TTN) trainers is to refer to the Focused Conversation Method which has four levels, O.R.I.D.
Winning Through Participation published in 1989 refers to The Focused Conversation Method, with four levels Objective, Reflective, Interpretive, Decisional.
Brian Stanfield's book, The Art of Focused Conversation, 100 Ways to Access Group Wisdom in the Workplace, published in 2000, gives some background and says, "The questions have changed slightly, but the method remains the same. It is the art form method with a new name, the Focused Conversation." (from the Introduction).
Documents from Golden Pathways: - From an old Spirit Methods Manual https://wedgeblade.net/gold_path/data/meth/10041501.htm
- A document from summer 1972, CONVERSATION: RELATIONSHIPS/COMPARISONS https://wedgeblade.net/gold_path/data/hisj/100551.htm
- A talk: SPIRIT METHODS:Spirit, Gospels, and Psalm Conversations https://wedgeblade.net/gold_path/data/meth/100439.htm by George West
Eagerly awaiting for completion of "Getting to the Bottom of ToP" for linking in the Chronological History.
Beret
On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 6:42 AM, Randy Williams via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: The art form has a lot of similarity to Dietrich Bonhoeffer's process for making responsible decisions: observe, judge, weigh-up, decide, act Randy
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 11, 2015, at 12:03 AM, via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
In the mid-80's, Gene Marshall published a binder with different conversation and workshop methods spelled out, for use by House Churches. Think I still have my copy in the garage.
Jann McGuire
-----Original Message----- From: Sherwood Shankland via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com> Cc: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; ICA <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Thu, Dec 10, 2015 7:04 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
A few notes on "art-form" and ORID conversations...In the 60's and 70's the Ecumenical Institute and its faculty from the Faith and Life community at UT Austin, conducted conversation about the impact of works of art. Notably Picaso's Guernica - impressions of saturation bombing; and the film Requim for a Heavyweight staring Anthony Quinn as the washed up boxer who decides that even he can live his life... The focus of these two conversations was not to teach anything directly but rather to allow the participants of the RS-I (Religious Studies - I seminar) to experience their experience of the painting and the film. As pedegogs we were listening to the participants' responses for their theological views, which could guide us in guiding the following sessions of the 44 hour weekend course.
I'm not sure when we formulated the ORID format - Marylin Olyer should know :-) but I associate ORID with our formalizing of facilitator skills training courses and the manuals for Group Facilitation Methods (now ToP Facilitation Methods) and Participatory Strategic Planning (now ToP Strategic Planning). Personally I think that the earlier titles / branding "GFM" and "PSP" are much more self-descriptive and clearer for marketing purposes. I suppose we could use both: "ToP - Group Facilitation Methods"; and "ToP - Participatory Strategic Planning".
Happy Holidays to All.../ Sherwood (on the road facilitating workshop on agricultural development in Kazakhstan and Kyrgykstan...back home Dec 18th.)
From: "Ken Fisher via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: "Steve Harrington" <stevehar11201@gmail.com> Cc: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, "ICA" <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 6:59:28 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
Me: “Where did the art form methodology come from?
David McKlesky: “Rudolf Bultman. This is his method of scriptural grounding.”
k
On Dec 10, 2015, at 6:09 PM, steve har via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
from the point of view of Imaginal Education and Imaginal Learning.
As I heard it, he asked Is there a difference between an Art Form Conversation and ORID question - and- someone just mentioned a "spirit question".
What is the difference between an art form conversation, an ORID conversation, a spirit question?
Jan Sanders, I know, was recently asked by her teachers and principles at Aruba University why the conversation was called "art form" conversation. It sent her looking back into Brian Stanfield's work and Susan Langer's cultural mythology and meaning making.
Does someone have a generous answer?
-- Steve Harrington _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
When the Order introduced Imaginal Education formally it was a three weekend series on the west side in … whatever year it was. Rodney gave me the three weekends as a birthday present. In my experience…every thing that “we” have done since has the flow of ORID underneath it…whether we were leading a conversation…choosing a human development project or going on a development call. I understand wanting to “name” the conversation method, but perhaps we’re thinking too small in some cases. One of the best gifts we spread across the globe, however it is used or called. All have a joyous, peaceful and transforming holiday time. Priscilla
On Dec 11, 2015, at 4:23 PM, Beret Griffith via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Some more background naming conventions of conversation methods.
The current best practice of ToP Network (TTN) trainers is to refer to the Focused Conversation Method which has four levels, O.R.I.D.
Winning Through Participation published in 1989 refers to The Focused Conversation Method, with four levels Objective, Reflective, Interpretive, Decisional.
Brian Stanfield's book, The Art of Focused Conversation, 100 Ways to Access Group Wisdom in the Workplace, published in 2000, gives some background and says, "The questions have changed slightly, but the method remains the same. It is the art form method with a new name, the Focused Conversation." (from the Introduction).
Documents from Golden Pathways: - From an old Spirit Methods Manual https://wedgeblade.net/gold_path/data/meth/10041501.htm <https://wedgeblade.net/gold_path/data/meth/10041501.htm>
- A document from summer 1972, CONVERSATION: RELATIONSHIPS/COMPARISONS https://wedgeblade.net/gold_path/data/hisj/100551.htm <https://wedgeblade.net/gold_path/data/hisj/100551.htm>
- A talk: SPIRIT METHODS:Spirit, Gospels, and Psalm Conversations https://wedgeblade.net/gold_path/data/meth/100439.htm <https://wedgeblade.net/gold_path/data/meth/100439.htm> by George West
Eagerly awaiting for completion of "Getting to the Bottom of ToP" for linking in the Chronological History.
Beret
On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 6:42 AM, Randy Williams via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote: The art form has a lot of similarity to Dietrich Bonhoeffer's process for making responsible decisions: observe, judge, weigh-up, decide, act Randy
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 11, 2015, at 12:03 AM, via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
In the mid-80's, Gene Marshall published a binder with different conversation and workshop methods spelled out, for use by House Churches. Think I still have my copy in the garage.
Jann McGuire
-----Original Message----- From: Sherwood Shankland via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> To: Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com <mailto:kenfisher1942@gmail.com>> Cc: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>>; ICA <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com <mailto:ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com>> Sent: Thu, Dec 10, 2015 7:04 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
A few notes on "art-form" and ORID conversations...In the 60's and 70's the Ecumenical Institute and its faculty from the Faith and Life community at UT Austin, conducted conversation about the impact of works of art. Notably Picaso's Guernica - impressions of saturation bombing; and the film Requim for a Heavyweight staring Anthony Quinn as the washed up boxer who decides that even he can live his life... The focus of these two conversations was not to teach anything directly but rather to allow the participants of the RS-I (Religious Studies - I seminar) to experience their experience of the painting and the film. As pedegogs we were listening to the participants' responses for their theological views, which could guide us in guiding the following sessions of the 44 hour weekend course.
I'm not sure when we formulated the ORID format - Marylin Olyer should know :-) but I associate ORID with our formalizing of facilitator skills training courses and the manuals for Group Facilitation Methods (now ToP Facilitation Methods) and Participatory Strategic Planning (now ToP Strategic Planning). Personally I think that the earlier titles / branding "GFM" and "PSP" are much more self-descriptive and clearer for marketing purposes. I suppose we could use both: "ToP - Group Facilitation Methods"; and "ToP - Participatory Strategic Planning".
Happy Holidays to All.../ Sherwood (on the road facilitating workshop on agricultural development in Kazakhstan and Kyrgykstan...back home Dec 18th.)
From: "Ken Fisher via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> To: "Steve Harrington" <stevehar11201@gmail.com <mailto:stevehar11201@gmail.com>> Cc: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>>, "ICA" <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com <mailto:ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com>> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 6:59:28 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
Me: “Where did the art form methodology come from?
David McKlesky: “Rudolf Bultman. This is his method of scriptural grounding.”
k
On Dec 10, 2015, at 6:09 PM, steve har via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
from the point of view of Imaginal Education and Imaginal Learning.
As I heard it, he asked Is there a difference between an Art Form Conversation and ORID question - and- someone just mentioned a "spirit question".
What is the difference between an art form conversation, an ORID conversation, a spirit question?
Jan Sanders, I know, was recently asked by her teachers and principles at Aruba University why the conversation was called "art form" conversation. It sent her looking back into Brian Stanfield's work and Susan Langer's cultural mythology and meaning making.
Does someone have a generous answer?
-- Steve Harrington _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net>
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Wilson Priscilla H pris@teamtechpress.com www.teamtechpress.com follow me on: Linkedin Twitter, #prishwilson Facebook
We're got a paper copy of "Art As Living Form" by Langer. On Dec 11, 2015, at 3:23 PM, Beret Griffith via OE wrote:
Some more background naming conventions of conversation methods.
The current best practice of ToP Network (TTN) trainers is to refer to the Focused Conversation Method which has four levels, O.R.I.D.
Winning Through Participation published in 1989 refers to The Focused Conversation Method, with four levels Objective, Reflective, Interpretive, Decisional.
Brian Stanfield's book, The Art of Focused Conversation, 100 Ways to Access Group Wisdom in the Workplace, published in 2000, gives some background and says, "The questions have changed slightly, but the method remains the same. It is the art form method with a new name, the Focused Conversation." (from the Introduction).
Documents from Golden Pathways: - From an old Spirit Methods Manual https://wedgeblade.net/gold_path/data/meth/10041501.htm
- A document from summer 1972, CONVERSATION: RELATIONSHIPS/ COMPARISONS https://wedgeblade.net/gold_path/data/hisj/100551.htm
- A talk: SPIRIT METHODS:Spirit, Gospels, and Psalm Conversations https://wedgeblade.net/gold_path/data/meth/100439.htm by George West
Eagerly awaiting for completion of "Getting to the Bottom of ToP" for linking in the Chronological History.
Beret
wrote: The art form has a lot of similarity to Dietrich Bonhoeffer's
On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 6:42 AM, Randy Williams via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net process for making responsible decisions: observe, judge, weigh-up, decide, act Randy
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 11, 2015, at 12:03 AM, via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
In the mid-80's, Gene Marshall published a binder with different conversation and workshop methods spelled out, for use by House Churches. Think I still have my copy in the garage.
Jann McGuire
-----Original Message----- From: Sherwood Shankland via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com> Cc: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; ICA <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com
Sent: Thu, Dec 10, 2015 7:04 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
A few notes on "art-form" and ORID conversations...In the 60's and 70's the Ecumenical Institute and its faculty from the Faith and Life community at UT Austin, conducted conversation about the impact of works of art. Notably Picaso's Guernica - impressions of saturation bombing; and the film Requim for a Heavyweight staring Anthony Quinn as the washed up boxer who decides that even he can live his life... The focus of these two conversations was not to teach anything directly but rather to allow the participants of the RS-I (Religious Studies - I seminar) to experience their experience of the painting and the film. As pedegogs we were listening to the participants' responses for their theological views, which could guide us in guiding the following sessions of the 44 hour weekend course.
I'm not sure when we formulated the ORID format - Marylin Olyer should know :-) but I associate ORID with our formalizing of facilitator skills training courses and the manuals for Group Facilitation Methods (now ToP Facilitation Methods) and Participatory Strategic Planning (now ToP Strategic Planning). Personally I think that the earlier titles / branding "GFM" and "PSP" are much more self-descriptive and clearer for marketing purposes. I suppose we could use both: "ToP - Group Facilitation Methods"; and "ToP - Participatory Strategic Planning".
Happy Holidays to All.../ Sherwood (on the road facilitating workshop on agricultural development in Kazakhstan and Kyrgykstan...back home Dec 18th.)
From: "Ken Fisher via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: "Steve Harrington" <stevehar11201@gmail.com> Cc: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, "ICA" <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 6:59:28 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
Me: “Where did the art form methodology come from?
David McKlesky: “Rudolf Bultman. This is his method of scriptural grounding.”
k
On Dec 10, 2015, at 6:09 PM, steve har via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net
wrote:
from the point of view of Imaginal Education and Imaginal Learning.
As I heard it, he asked Is there a difference between an Art Form Conversation and ORID question - and- someone just mentioned a "spirit question".
What is the difference between an art form conversation, an ORID conversation, a spirit question?
Jan Sanders, I know, was recently asked by her teachers and principles at Aruba University why the conversation was called "art form" conversation. It sent her looking back into Brian Stanfield's work and Susan Langer's cultural mythology and meaning making.
Does someone have a generous answer?
-- Steve Harrington _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
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And the spirit question...not a formal method that I know of, except as pedagogues we were trained to listen for a deeply rooted "spirit issue" that a group or an individual was struggling with and seek to address that issue and thereby hopefully the Mystery of Life might address that person deeply. A very fine line between trying to use our own observations and judgments as opposed to self-reflection and discovery on the participant's part. There is also an additional method called the "Spirit Conversation" which essentially follows an ORID flow, but draws upon each persons personal experience rather than a common group experience (like watching a film together). So topics like "Tears" or "Water" or "Death and dying" might be the basis of a conversation...The image for the leader was like steering a conoe with gentle turns with the potential for a deep vortex or thundering waterfall to enter the path of the conversation as the group sees the depth of their own experience with the topic. Check Brian's book on Focused Conversation...maybe some clues there...or the ICA archives on "Spirit Conversations" Cheers, Sherwood ----- Original Message ----- From: "steve har via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net, "ICA" <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com>, "Steve Ediger" <steveediger@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 5:09:58 AM Subject: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday from the point of view of Imaginal Education and Imaginal Learning. As I heard it, he asked Is there a difference between an Art Form Conversation and ORID question - and- someone just mentioned a "spirit question". What is the difference between an art form conversation, an ORID conversation, a spirit question? Jan Sanders, I know, was recently asked by her teachers and principles at Aruba University why the conversation was called "art form" conversation. It sent her looking back into Brian Stanfield's work and Susan Langer's cultural mythology and meaning making. Does someone have a generous answer? -- Steve Harrington _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Hi, all, Wayne did a comprehensive research project on where this all came from. I'm working on getting the book ready for publication. I'm swamped this week and next, but I might be able to extract some insight on this particular question when the work lets up a bit. The book, by the way, has the tentative title of "Getting to the Bottom of ToP" (more catchy than "The Phenomenology behind ICA's Methods") and hopefully will be published by next summer. Take care, Jo From the mobile desk of Jo Nelson Please reply to jnelson@ica-associates.ca
On Dec 10, 2015, at 6:09 PM, steve har via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
from the point of view of Imaginal Education and Imaginal Learning.
As I heard it, he asked Is there a difference between an Art Form Conversation and ORID question - and- someone just mentioned a "spirit question".
What is the difference between an art form conversation, an ORID conversation, a spirit question?
Jan Sanders, I know, was recently asked by her teachers and principles at Aruba University why the conversation was called "art form" conversation. It sent her looking back into Brian Stanfield's work and Susan Langer's cultural mythology and meaning making.
Does someone have a generous answer?
-- Steve Harrington _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Simply put, the 'art form conversation' is the 4-level ORID method of individual depth encounter/structured group reflection around experiencing any art form: something created by artist(s) as a unique expression of human perception/vision/insight.Marshall On Thursday, December 10, 2015 7:20 PM, Jo Nelson via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Hi, all, Wayne did a comprehensive research project on where this all came from. I'm working on getting the book ready for publication. I'm swamped this week and next, but I might be able to extract some insight on this particular question when the work lets up a bit. The book, by the way, has the tentative title of "Getting to the Bottom of ToP" (more catchy than "The Phenomenology behind ICA's Methods") and hopefully will be published by next summer. Take care, Jo
From the mobile desk of Jo Nelson Please reply to jnelson@ica-associates.ca
On Dec 10, 2015, at 6:09 PM, steve har via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
from the point of view of Imaginal Education and Imaginal Learning.
As I heard it, he asked Is there a difference between an Art Form Conversation and ORID question - and- someone just mentioned a "spirit question".
What is the difference between an art form conversation, an ORID conversation, a spirit question?
Jan Sanders, I know, was recently asked by her teachers and principles at Aruba University why the conversation was called "art form" conversation. It sent her looking back into Brian Stanfield's work and Susan Langer's cultural mythology and meaning making.
Does someone have a generous answer?
-- Steve Harrington _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
On Dec 10, 2015, at 4:09 PM, steve har via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Does someone have a generous answer?
When I started working with the ToP Network on a revision of the ToP Facilitation Methods manual I wrote some notes for our illustrator, Ron Ruelle. I found myself thinking through my own understanding of what each of the little black and white graphics points to. Ron’s assignment was to represent these in a more imaginal, personal form and the four facilittors below—Denise, Ben, Charlene, and Andy—are the result. They’re a generous and outgoing team. David — "Mystery, possibility, and the power to choose" [read and share on David's blog—www.spiritjourneys.org] David Dunn 740 S Alton Way 9B Denver, CO 80247 720-314-5991 dmdunn1@gmail.com Link to Google Doc notes about some symbols and images representing the levels of the “art form conversation” https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_7oDJk7OfUFnPFkiBeO7hzFazU0h2__jPMHvTfIZ... <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_7oDJk7OfUFnPFkiBeO7hzFazU0h2__jPMHvTfIZuuA/edit> Everyone is welcome to visit the google doc and add, correct, or prune the text.
participants (12)
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Beret Griffith via OE -
David Dunn via OE
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Jim & OliveAnn Slotta via OE
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Jo Nelson via OE
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Ken Fisher via OE
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Randy Williams via OE
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Sherwood Shankland via OE
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steve har via OE
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Steve via OE
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via OE
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W. J. via OE
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Wilson Priscilla H via OE