FW: I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
I sent this out yesterday, but not certain it made it into the discussion. Jan From: janetasanders@hotmail.com To: randycw1938@gmail.com; laurelcg@aol.com; ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com Subject: RE: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 08:32:04 -0500 Hello to all, In 1971, I took my first course with the EI/ICA called Imaginal Education. I walked into the empty seminar room to get a feel for the space. As I walked around the tables all laid out so intentionally, I vividly remember thinking, "My life will never be the same." 44 years later, I am still in dialogue with the wisdom of that gathering. I was particularily fascinated with with was called the Art Form conversation. At that point the pedagogues talked about it being inspired by Susan Langer's work. It wasn't until this year that I went looking for Susan's work. I'm attaching and also sending a link for an article of appreciation by Howard Gardner for her work. http://www.anthonyflood.com/gardnerlanger.htm She was using art forms to explore the world of meaning.
From Art, Mind, and Brain: A Cognitive Approach to Creativity, New York, Basic Books, 1982, 48-54. Philosophy in a New Key Revisited: An Appreciation of Susanne Langer
Janet A. Sanders Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 06:42:34 -0600 To: laurelcg@aol.com CC: ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com; oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday From: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net The art form has a lot of similarity to Dietrich Bonhoeffer's process for making responsible decisions: observe, judge, weigh-up, decide, act Randy Sent from my iPad On Dec 11, 2015, at 12:03 AM, via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: In the mid-80's, Gene Marshall published a binder with different conversation and workshop methods spelled out, for use by House Churches. Think I still have my copy in the garage. Jann McGuire -----Original Message----- From: Sherwood Shankland via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com> Cc: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; ICA <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Thu, Dec 10, 2015 7:04 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday A few notes on "art-form" and ORID conversations...In the 60's and 70's the Ecumenical Institute and its faculty from the Faith and Life community at UT Austin, conducted conversation about the impact of works of art. Notably Picaso's Guernica - impressions of saturation bombing; and the film Requim for a Heavyweight staring Anthony Quinn as the washed up boxer who decides that even he can live his life... The focus of these two conversations was not to teach anything directly but rather to allow the participants of the RS-I (Religious Studies - I seminar) to experience their experience of the painting and the film. As pedegogs we were listening to the participants' responses for their theological views, which could guide us in guiding the following sessions of the 44 hour weekend course. I'm not sure when we formulated the ORID format - Marylin Olyer should know :-) but I associate ORID with our formalizing of facilitator skills training courses and the manuals for Group Facilitation Methods (now ToP Facilitation Methods) and Participatory Strategic Planning (now ToP Strategic Planning). Personally I think that the earlier titles / branding "GFM" and "PSP" are much more self-descriptive and clearer for marketing purposes. I suppose we could use both: "ToP - Group Facilitation Methods"; and "ToP - Participatory Strategic Planning". Happy Holidays to All.../ Sherwood (on the road facilitating workshop on agricultural development in Kazakhstan and Kyrgykstan...back home Dec 18th.) From: "Ken Fisher via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: "Steve Harrington" <stevehar11201@gmail.com> Cc: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, "ICA" <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 6:59:28 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday Me: “Where did the art form methodology come from? David McKlesky: “Rudolf Bultman. This is his method of scriptural grounding.” k On Dec 10, 2015, at 6:09 PM, steve har via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: from the point of view of Imaginal Education and Imaginal Learning. As I heard it, he asked Is there a difference between an Art Form Conversation and ORID question - and- someone just mentioned a "spirit question". What is the difference between an art form conversation, an ORID conversation, a spirit question? Jan Sanders, I know, was recently asked by her teachers and principles at Aruba University why the conversation was called "art form" conversation. It sent her looking back into Brian Stanfield's work and Susan Langer's cultural mythology and meaning making. Does someone have a generous answer? -- Steve Harrington _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Thanks Jan. Langer posited a basic and pervasive human need to symbolize, to invent meanings, and to invest meanings in one’s world. It was a property of the human mind to search for and to find significances everywhere, to transform experience constantly to uncover new meanings. …. implying new actions and behaviours. What a woman. And thanks David for the simple graphic. k On Dec 11, 2015, at 11:26 PM, Janet Sanders via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: I sent this out yesterday, but not certain it made it into the discussion. Jan From: janetasanders@hotmail.com <mailto:janetasanders@hotmail.com> To: randycw1938@gmail.com <mailto:randycw1938@gmail.com>; laurelcg@aol.com <mailto:laurelcg@aol.com>; ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com <mailto:ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Subject: RE: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 08:32:04 -0500 Hello to all, In 1971, I took my first course with the EI/ICA called Imaginal Education. I walked into the empty seminar room to get a feel for the space. As I walked around the tables all laid out so intentionally, I vividly remember thinking, "My life will never be the same." 44 years later, I am still in dialogue with the wisdom of that gathering. I was particularily fascinated with with was called the Art Form conversation. At that point the pedagogues talked about it being inspired by Susan Langer's work. It wasn't until this year that I went looking for Susan's work. I'm attaching and also sending a link for an article of appreciation by Howard Gardner for her work. http://www.anthonyflood.com/gardnerlanger.htm <http://www.anthonyflood.com/gardnerlanger.htm> She was using art forms to explore the world of meaning. From Art, Mind, and Brain: A Cognitive Approach to Creativity, New York, Basic Books, 1982, 48-54. Philosophy in a New Key Revisited: An Appreciation of Susanne Langer Janet A. Sanders Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 06:42:34 -0600 To: laurelcg@aol.com <mailto:laurelcg@aol.com> CC: ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com <mailto:ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com>; oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday From: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> The art form has a lot of similarity to Dietrich Bonhoeffer's process for making responsible decisions: observe, judge, weigh-up, decide, act Randy Sent from my iPad On Dec 11, 2015, at 12:03 AM, via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote: In the mid-80's, Gene Marshall published a binder with different conversation and workshop methods spelled out, for use by House Churches. Think I still have my copy in the garage. Jann McGuire -----Original Message----- From: Sherwood Shankland via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> To: Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com <mailto:kenfisher1942@gmail.com>> Cc: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>>; ICA <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com <mailto:ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com>> Sent: Thu, Dec 10, 2015 7:04 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday A few notes on "art-form" and ORID conversations...In the 60's and 70's the Ecumenical Institute and its faculty from the Faith and Life community at UT Austin, conducted conversation about the impact of works of art. Notably Picaso's Guernica - impressions of saturation bombing; and the film Requim for a Heavyweight staring Anthony Quinn as the washed up boxer who decides that even he can live his life... The focus of these two conversations was not to teach anything directly but rather to allow the participants of the RS-I (Religious Studies - I seminar) to experience their experience of the painting and the film. As pedegogs we were listening to the participants' responses for their theological views, which could guide us in guiding the following sessions of the 44 hour weekend course. I'm not sure when we formulated the ORID format - Marylin Olyer should know :-) but I associate ORID with our formalizing of facilitator skills training courses and the manuals for Group Facilitation Methods (now ToP Facilitation Methods) and Participatory Strategic Planning (now ToP Strategic Planning). Personally I think that the earlier titles / branding "GFM" and "PSP" are much more self-descriptive and clearer for marketing purposes. I suppose we could use both: "ToP - Group Facilitation Methods"; and "ToP - Participatory Strategic Planning". Happy Holidays to All.../ Sherwood (on the road facilitating workshop on agricultural development in Kazakhstan and Kyrgykstan...back home Dec 18th.) From: "Ken Fisher via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> To: "Steve Harrington" <stevehar11201@gmail.com <mailto:stevehar11201@gmail.com>> Cc: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>>, "ICA" <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com <mailto:ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com>> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 6:59:28 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday Me: “Where did the art form methodology come from? David McKlesky: “Rudolf Bultman. This is his method of scriptural grounding.” k On Dec 10, 2015, at 6:09 PM, steve har via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote: from the point of view of Imaginal Education and Imaginal Learning. As I heard it, he asked Is there a difference between an Art Form Conversation and ORID question - and- someone just mentioned a "spirit question". What is the difference between an art form conversation, an ORID conversation, a spirit question? Jan Sanders, I know, was recently asked by her teachers and principles at Aruba University why the conversation was called "art form" conversation. It sent her looking back into Brian Stanfield's work and Susan Langer's cultural mythology and meaning making. Does someone have a generous answer? -- Steve Harrington _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net> _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net> _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net> _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net> _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net>http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net><An Appreciation of SL by HG.docx>_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net>
There is a paper by Susanne Langer in the Psychology and Art course of the RS/CS curriculum, titled 'Art as Living Form.' It was taught in the Academy (third week). It might have been a handout in CS-I as well.It is not on the Golden Pathways. Langer's Problems of Art is listed in 'foundational works' of the academy curriculum. Her book Philosophy in a New Key was on a longer list as I recall.Marshall On Friday, December 11, 2015 8:26 PM, Janet Sanders via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: <!--#yiv6300392826 .yiv6300392826hmmessage P{margin:0px;padding:0px;}#yiv6300392826 body.yiv6300392826hmmessage{font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;}--> I sent this out yesterday, but not certain it made it into the discussion. Jan From: janetasanders@hotmail.com To: randycw1938@gmail.com; laurelcg@aol.com; ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com Subject: RE: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 08:32:04 -0500 <!--#yiv6300392826 .yiv6300392826ExternalClass .yiv6300392826ecxhmmessage P {padding:0px;}#yiv6300392826 .yiv6300392826ExternalClass body.yiv6300392826ecxhmmessage {font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;}-->Hello to all, In 1971, I took my first course with the EI/ICA called Imaginal Education. I walked into the empty seminar room to get a feel for the space. As I walked around the tables all laid out so intentionally, I vividly remember thinking, "My life will never be the same." 44 years later, I am still in dialogue with the wisdom of that gathering. I was particularily fascinated with with was called the Art Form conversation. At that point the pedagogues talked about it being inspired by Susan Langer's work. It wasn't until this year that I went looking for Susan's work. I'm attaching and also sending a link for an article of appreciation by Howard Gardner for her work. http://www.anthonyflood.com/gardnerlanger.htm She was using art forms to explore the world of meaning. From Art, Mind, and Brain: A Cognitive Approach to Creativity, New York, Basic Books, 1982, 48-54. Philosophy in a New Key Revisited: An Appreciation of Susanne Langer Janet A. Sanders Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 06:42:34 -0600 To: laurelcg@aol.com CC: ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com; oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday From: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net The art form has a lot of similarity to Dietrich Bonhoeffer's process for making responsible decisions: observe, judge, weigh-up, decide, act Randy Sent from my iPad On Dec 11, 2015, at 12:03 AM, via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: In the mid-80's, Gene Marshall published a binder with different conversation and workshop methods spelled out, for use by House Churches. Think I still have my copy in the garage. Jann McGuire -----Original Message----- From: Sherwood Shankland via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com> Cc: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; ICA <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Thu, Dec 10, 2015 7:04 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday A few notes on "art-form" and ORID conversations...In the 60's and 70's the Ecumenical Institute and its faculty from the Faith and Life community at UT Austin, conducted conversation about the impact of works of art. Notably Picaso's Guernica - impressions of saturation bombing; and the film Requim for a Heavyweight staring Anthony Quinn as the washed up boxer who decides that even he can live his life... The focus of these two conversations was not to teach anything directly but rather to allow the participants of the RS-I (Religious Studies - I seminar) to experience their experience of the painting and the film. As pedegogs we were listening to the participants' responses for their theological views, which could guide us in guiding the following sessions of the 44 hour weekend course. I'm not sure when we formulated the ORID format - Marylin Olyer should know :-) but I associate ORID with our formalizing of facilitator skills training courses and the manuals for Group Facilitation Methods (now ToP Facilitation Methods) and Participatory Strategic Planning (now ToP Strategic Planning). Personally I think that the earlier titles / branding "GFM" and "PSP" are much more self-descriptive and clearer for marketing purposes. I suppose we could use both: "ToP - Group Facilitation Methods"; and "ToP - Participatory Strategic Planning". Happy Holidays to All.../ Sherwood (on the road facilitating workshop on agricultural development in Kazakhstan and Kyrgykstan...back home Dec 18th.) From: "Ken Fisher via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: "Steve Harrington" <stevehar11201@gmail.com> Cc: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, "ICA" <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 6:59:28 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday Me: “Where did the art form methodology come from? David McKlesky: “Rudolf Bultman. This is his method of scriptural grounding.” k On Dec 10, 2015, at 6:09 PM, steve har via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: from the point of view of Imaginal Education and Imaginal Learning. As I heard it, he asked Is there a difference between an Art Form Conversation and ORID question - and- someone just mentioned a "spirit question". What is the difference between an art form conversation, an ORID conversation, a spirit question? Jan Sanders, I know, was recently asked by her teachers and principles at Aruba University why the conversation was called "art form" conversation. It sent her looking back into Brian Stanfield's work and Susan Langer's cultural mythology and meaning making. Does someone have a generous answer? -- Steve Harrington _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________OE mailing listOE@lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Thank you Marshall. I knew there was a paper but to date, I have not been able to put my hands on it. Does anyone in the network have this paper? I can do more of a google search also. Jan Janet A. Sanders Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2015 14:19:51 +0000 From: synergi@yahoo.com To: janetasanders@hotmail.com; oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] FW: I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday There is a paper by Susanne Langer in the Psychology and Art course of the RS/CS curriculum, titled 'Art as Living Form.' It was taught in the Academy (third week). It might have been a handout in CS-I as well.It is not on the Golden Pathways. Langer's Problems of Art is listed in 'foundational works' of the academy curriculum. Her book Philosophy in a New Key was on a longer list as I recall.Marshall On Friday, December 11, 2015 8:26 PM, Janet Sanders via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: I sent this out yesterday, but not certain it made it into the discussion. Jan From: janetasanders@hotmail.com To: randycw1938@gmail.com; laurelcg@aol.com; ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com Subject: RE: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 08:32:04 -0500 Hello to all, In 1971, I took my first course with the EI/ICA called Imaginal Education. I walked into the empty seminar room to get a feel for the space. As I walked around the tables all laid out so intentionally, I vividly remember thinking, "My life will never be the same." 44 years later, I am still in dialogue with the wisdom of that gathering. I was particularily fascinated with with was called the Art Form conversation. At that point the pedagogues talked about it being inspired by Susan Langer's work. It wasn't until this year that I went looking for Susan's work. I'm attaching and also sending a link for an article of appreciation by Howard Gardner for her work. http://www.anthonyflood.com/gardnerlanger.htm She was using art forms to explore the world of meaning.
From Art, Mind, and Brain: A Cognitive Approach to Creativity, New York, Basic Books, 1982, 48-54. Philosophy in a New Key Revisited: An Appreciation of Susanne Langer
Janet A. Sanders Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 06:42:34 -0600 To: laurelcg@aol.com CC: ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com; oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday From: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net The art form has a lot of similarity to Dietrich Bonhoeffer's process for making responsible decisions: observe, judge, weigh-up, decide, act Randy Sent from my iPad On Dec 11, 2015, at 12:03 AM, via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: In the mid-80's, Gene Marshall published a binder with different conversation and workshop methods spelled out, for use by House Churches. Think I still have my copy in the garage. Jann McGuire -----Original Message----- From: Sherwood Shankland via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com> Cc: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; ICA <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Thu, Dec 10, 2015 7:04 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday A few notes on "art-form" and ORID conversations...In the 60's and 70's the Ecumenical Institute and its faculty from the Faith and Life community at UT Austin, conducted conversation about the impact of works of art. Notably Picaso's Guernica - impressions of saturation bombing; and the film Requim for a Heavyweight staring Anthony Quinn as the washed up boxer who decides that even he can live his life... The focus of these two conversations was not to teach anything directly but rather to allow the participants of the RS-I (Religious Studies - I seminar) to experience their experience of the painting and the film. As pedegogs we were listening to the participants' responses for their theological views, which could guide us in guiding the following sessions of the 44 hour weekend course. I'm not sure when we formulated the ORID format - Marylin Olyer should know :-) but I associate ORID with our formalizing of facilitator skills training courses and the manuals for Group Facilitation Methods (now ToP Facilitation Methods) and Participatory Strategic Planning (now ToP Strategic Planning). Personally I think that the earlier titles / branding "GFM" and "PSP" are much more self-descriptive and clearer for marketing purposes. I suppose we could use both: "ToP - Group Facilitation Methods"; and "ToP - Participatory Strategic Planning". Happy Holidays to All.../ Sherwood (on the road facilitating workshop on agricultural development in Kazakhstan and Kyrgykstan...back home Dec 18th.) From: "Ken Fisher via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: "Steve Harrington" <stevehar11201@gmail.com> Cc: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, "ICA" <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 6:59:28 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday Me: “Where did the art form methodology come from? David McKlesky: “Rudolf Bultman. This is his method of scriptural grounding.” k On Dec 10, 2015, at 6:09 PM, steve har via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: from the point of view of Imaginal Education and Imaginal Learning. As I heard it, he asked Is there a difference between an Art Form Conversation and ORID question - and- someone just mentioned a "spirit question". What is the difference between an art form conversation, an ORID conversation, a spirit question? Jan Sanders, I know, was recently asked by her teachers and principles at Aruba University why the conversation was called "art form" conversation. It sent her looking back into Brian Stanfield's work and Susan Langer's cultural mythology and meaning making. Does someone have a generous answer? -- Steve Harrington _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Here is "Art as Living Form" by Suzanne Langer https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8gUvFJOlM2lSF9icUxVUlBtc3c/view?usp=sharin... also, here are the Guernica and Movie conversation outlines from the RS-1 manual, might help the conversationhttps://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8gUvFJOlM2lWjVpOTRDaEp5OEU/view?usp=sharin... Hope this helps the conversation. A question: Is there a useful distinction between the Art Form Method and the Art Form Conversation? Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353623-363-3277jfwiegel@yahoo.comwww.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National ScheduleAICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: W. J. via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Janet Sanders <janetasanders@hotmail.com>; "oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2015 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] FW: I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday There is a paper by Susanne Langer in the Psychology and Art course of the RS/CS curriculum, titled 'Art as Living Form.' It was taught in the Academy (third week). It might have been a handout in CS-I as well.It is not on the Golden Pathways. Langer's Problems of Art is listed in 'foundational works' of the academy curriculum. Her book Philosophy in a New Key was on a longer list as I recall.Marshall On Friday, December 11, 2015 8:26 PM, Janet Sanders via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: #yiv7356922214 #yiv7356922214 -- .yiv7356922214hmmessage P{margin:0px;padding:0px;}#yiv7356922214 body.yiv7356922214hmmessage{font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;}#yiv7356922214 I sent this out yesterday, but not certain it made it into the discussion. Jan From: janetasanders@hotmail.com To: randycw1938@gmail.com; laurelcg@aol.com; ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com Subject: RE: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 08:32:04 -0500 #yiv7356922214 #yiv7356922214 -- .yiv7356922214ExternalClass .yiv7356922214ecxhmmessage P {padding:0px;}#yiv7356922214 .yiv7356922214ExternalClass body.yiv7356922214ecxhmmessage {font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;}#yiv7356922214 Hello to all, In 1971, I took my first course with the EI/ICA called Imaginal Education. I walked into the empty seminar room to get a feel for the space. As I walked around the tables all laid out so intentionally, I vividly remember thinking, "My life will never be the same." 44 years later, I am still in dialogue with the wisdom of that gathering. I was particularily fascinated with with was called the Art Form conversation. At that point the pedagogues talked about it being inspired by Susan Langer's work. It wasn't until this year that I went looking for Susan's work. I'm attaching and also sending a link for an article of appreciation by Howard Gardner for her work. http://www.anthonyflood.com/gardnerlanger.htm She was using art forms to explore the world of meaning. From Art, Mind, and Brain: A Cognitive Approach to Creativity, New York, Basic Books, 1982, 48-54. Philosophy in a New Key Revisited: An Appreciation of Susanne Langer Janet A. Sanders Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 06:42:34 -0600 To: laurelcg@aol.com CC: ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com; oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday From: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net The art form has a lot of similarity to Dietrich Bonhoeffer's process for making responsible decisions: observe, judge, weigh-up, decide, act Randy Sent from my iPad On Dec 11, 2015, at 12:03 AM, via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: In the mid-80's, Gene Marshall published a binder with different conversation and workshop methods spelled out, for use by House Churches. Think I still have my copy in the garage. Jann McGuire -----Original Message----- From: Sherwood Shankland via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com> Cc: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; ICA <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Thu, Dec 10, 2015 7:04 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday A few notes on "art-form" and ORID conversations...In the 60's and 70's the Ecumenical Institute and its faculty from the Faith and Life community at UT Austin, conducted conversation about the impact of works of art. Notably Picaso's Guernica - impressions of saturation bombing; and the film Requim for a Heavyweight staring Anthony Quinn as the washed up boxer who decides that even he can live his life... The focus of these two conversations was not to teach anything directly but rather to allow the participants of the RS-I (Religious Studies - I seminar) to experience their experience of the painting and the film. As pedegogs we were listening to the participants' responses for their theological views, which could guide us in guiding the following sessions of the 44 hour weekend course. I'm not sure when we formulated the ORID format - Marylin Olyer should know :-) but I associate ORID with our formalizing of facilitator skills training courses and the manuals for Group Facilitation Methods (now ToP Facilitation Methods) and Participatory Strategic Planning (now ToP Strategic Planning). Personally I think that the earlier titles / branding "GFM" and "PSP" are much more self-descriptive and clearer for marketing purposes. I suppose we could use both: "ToP - Group Facilitation Methods"; and "ToP - Participatory Strategic Planning". Happy Holidays to All.../ Sherwood (on the road facilitating workshop on agricultural development in Kazakhstan and Kyrgykstan...back home Dec 18th.) From: "Ken Fisher via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: "Steve Harrington" <stevehar11201@gmail.com> Cc: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, "ICA" <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 6:59:28 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday Me: “Where did the art form methodology come from? David McKlesky: “Rudolf Bultman. This is his method of scriptural grounding.” k On Dec 10, 2015, at 6:09 PM, steve har via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: from the point of view of Imaginal Education and Imaginal Learning. As I heard it, he asked Is there a difference between an Art Form Conversation and ORID question - and- someone just mentioned a "spirit question". What is the difference between an art form conversation, an ORID conversation, a spirit question? Jan Sanders, I know, was recently asked by her teachers and principles at Aruba University why the conversation was called "art form" conversation. It sent her looking back into Brian Stanfield's work and Susan Langer's cultural mythology and meaning making. Does someone have a generous answer? -- Steve Harrington _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________OE mailing listOE@lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Dear Jim, Thankyou for the paper. We will all think about your question ! Merry Christmas to each one of you on this listserve. With love From Isobel and Jim too. xxxx Sent from my iPhone
On 14 Dec 2015, at 5:57 am, James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Here is "Art as Living Form" by Suzanne Langer https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8gUvFJOlM2lSF9icUxVUlBtc3c/view?usp=sharin...
also, here are the Guernica and Movie conversation outlines from the RS-1 manual, might help the conversation https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8gUvFJOlM2lWjVpOTRDaEp5OEU/view?usp=sharin...
Hope this helps the conversation.
A question: Is there a useful distinction between the Art Form Method and the Art Form Conversation?
Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy
401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com
Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona
More info on:
ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation
Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses
The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003
From: W. J. via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Janet Sanders <janetasanders@hotmail.com>; "oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2015 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] FW: I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
There is a paper by Susanne Langer in the Psychology and Art course of the RS/CS curriculum, titled 'Art as Living Form.' It was taught in the Academy (third week). It might have been a handout in CS-I as well. It is not on the Golden Pathways. Langer's Problems of Art is listed in 'foundational works' of the academy curriculum. Her book Philosophy in a New Key was on a longer list as I recall. Marshall
On Friday, December 11, 2015 8:26 PM, Janet Sanders via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
I sent this out yesterday, but not certain it made it into the discussion. Jan
From: janetasanders@hotmail.com To: randycw1938@gmail.com; laurelcg@aol.com; ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com Subject: RE: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 08:32:04 -0500
Hello to all,
In 1971, I took my first course with the EI/ICA called Imaginal Education. I walked into the empty seminar room to get a feel for the space. As I walked around the tables all laid out so intentionally, I vividly remember thinking, "My life will never be the same."
44 years later, I am still in dialogue with the wisdom of that gathering. I was particularily fascinated with with was called the Art Form conversation. At that point the pedagogues talked about it being inspired by Susan Langer's work.
It wasn't until this year that I went looking for Susan's work. I'm attaching and also sending a link for an article of appreciation by Howard Gardner for her work. http://www.anthonyflood.com/gardnerlanger.htm She was using art forms to explore the world of meaning.
From Art, Mind, and Brain: A Cognitive Approach to Creativity, New York, Basic Books, 1982, 48-54.
Philosophy in a New Key Revisited: An Appreciation of Susanne Langer
Janet A. Sanders
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 06:42:34 -0600 To: laurelcg@aol.com CC: ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com; oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday From: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net
The art form has a lot of similarity to Dietrich Bonhoeffer's process for making responsible decisions: observe, judge, weigh-up, decide, act Randy
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 11, 2015, at 12:03 AM, via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
In the mid-80's, Gene Marshall published a binder with different conversation and workshop methods spelled out, for use by House Churches. Think I still have my copy in the garage.
Jann McGuire
-----Original Message----- From: Sherwood Shankland via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com> Cc: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; ICA <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Thu, Dec 10, 2015 7:04 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
A few notes on "art-form" and ORID conversations...In the 60's and 70's the Ecumenical Institute and its faculty from the Faith and Life community at UT Austin, conducted conversation about the impact of works of art. Notably Picaso's Guernica - impressions of saturation bombing; and the film Requim for a Heavyweight staring Anthony Quinn as the washed up boxer who decides that even he can live his life... The focus of these two conversations was not to teach anything directly but rather to allow the participants of the RS-I (Religious Studies - I seminar) to experience their experience of the painting and the film. As pedegogs we were listening to the participants' responses for their theological views, which could guide us in guiding the following sessions of the 44 hour weekend course.
I'm not sure when we formulated the ORID format - Marylin Olyer should know :-) but I associate ORID with our formalizing of facilitator skills training courses and the manuals for Group Facilitation Methods (now ToP Facilitation Methods) and Participatory Strategic Planning (now ToP Strategic Planning). Personally I think that the earlier titles / branding "GFM" and "PSP" are much more self-descriptive and clearer for marketing purposes. I suppose we could use both: "ToP - Group Facilitation Methods"; and "ToP - Participatory Strategic Planning".
Happy Holidays to All.../ Sherwood (on the road facilitating workshop on agricultural development in Kazakhstan and Kyrgykstan...back home Dec 18th.)
From: "Ken Fisher via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: "Steve Harrington" <stevehar11201@gmail.com> Cc: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, "ICA" <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 6:59:28 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
Me: “Where did the art form methodology come from?
David McKlesky: “Rudolf Bultman. This is his method of scriptural grounding.”
k
On Dec 10, 2015, at 6:09 PM, steve har via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
from the point of view of Imaginal Education and Imaginal Learning.
As I heard it, he asked Is there a difference between an Art Form Conversation and ORID question - and- someone just mentioned a "spirit question".
What is the difference between an art form conversation, an ORID conversation, a spirit question?
Jan Sanders, I know, was recently asked by her teachers and principles at Aruba University why the conversation was called "art form" conversation. It sent her looking back into Brian Stanfield's work and Susan Langer's cultural mythology and meaning making.
Does someone have a generous answer?
-- Steve Harrington _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
The way we teach this in our facilitation courses is that ORID is the underlying contentless thinking method, and the Focused Conversation is the tool based on it to guide a group to think clearly. From the mobile desk of Jo Nelson Please reply to jnelson@ica-associates.ca
On Dec 13, 2015, at 1:57 PM, James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>
A question: Is there a useful distinction between the Art Form Method and the Art Form Conversation?
Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy
401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com
Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona
More info on:
ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation
Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses
The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003
From: W. J. via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Janet Sanders <janetasanders@hotmail.com>; "oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2015 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] FW: I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
There is a paper by Susanne Langer in the Psychology and Art course of the RS/CS curriculum, titled 'Art as Living Form.' It was taught in the Academy (third week). It might have been a handout in CS-I as well. It is not on the Golden Pathways. Langer's Problems of Art is listed in 'foundational works' of the academy curriculum. Her book Philosophy in a New Key was on a longer list as I recall. Marshall
On Friday, December 11, 2015 8:26 PM, Janet Sanders via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
I sent this out yesterday, but not certain it made it into the discussion. Jan
From: janetasanders@hotmail.com To: randycw1938@gmail.com; laurelcg@aol.com; ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com Subject: RE: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 08:32:04 -0500
Hello to all,
In 1971, I took my first course with the EI/ICA called Imaginal Education. I walked into the empty seminar room to get a feel for the space. As I walked around the tables all laid out so intentionally, I vividly remember thinking, "My life will never be the same."
44 years later, I am still in dialogue with the wisdom of that gathering. I was particularily fascinated with with was called the Art Form conversation. At that point the pedagogues talked about it being inspired by Susan Langer's work.
It wasn't until this year that I went looking for Susan's work. I'm attaching and also sending a link for an article of appreciation by Howard Gardner for her work. http://www.anthonyflood.com/gardnerlanger.htm She was using art forms to explore the world of meaning.
From Art, Mind, and Brain: A Cognitive Approach to Creativity, New York, Basic Books, 1982, 48-54.
Philosophy in a New Key Revisited: An Appreciation of Susanne Langer
Janet A. Sanders
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 06:42:34 -0600 To: laurelcg@aol.com CC: ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com; oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday From: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net
The art form has a lot of similarity to Dietrich Bonhoeffer's process for making responsible decisions: observe, judge, weigh-up, decide, act Randy
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 11, 2015, at 12:03 AM, via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
In the mid-80's, Gene Marshall published a binder with different conversation and workshop methods spelled out, for use by House Churches. Think I still have my copy in the garage.
Jann McGuire
-----Original Message----- From: Sherwood Shankland via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com> Cc: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; ICA <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Thu, Dec 10, 2015 7:04 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
A few notes on "art-form" and ORID conversations...In the 60's and 70's the Ecumenical Institute and its faculty from the Faith and Life community at UT Austin, conducted conversation about the impact of works of art. Notably Picaso's Guernica - impressions of saturation bombing; and the film Requim for a Heavyweight staring Anthony Quinn as the washed up boxer who decides that even he can live his life... The focus of these two conversations was not to teach anything directly but rather to allow the participants of the RS-I (Religious Studies - I seminar) to experience their experience of the painting and the film. As pedegogs we were listening to the participants' responses for their theological views, which could guide us in guiding the following sessions of the 44 hour weekend course.
I'm not sure when we formulated the ORID format - Marylin Olyer should know :-) but I associate ORID with our formalizing of facilitator skills training courses and the manuals for Group Facilitation Methods (now ToP Facilitation Methods) and Participatory Strategic Planning (now ToP Strategic Planning). Personally I think that the earlier titles / branding "GFM" and "PSP" are much more self-descriptive and clearer for marketing purposes. I suppose we could use both: "ToP - Group Facilitation Methods"; and "ToP - Participatory Strategic Planning".
Happy Holidays to All.../ Sherwood (on the road facilitating workshop on agricultural development in Kazakhstan and Kyrgykstan...back home Dec 18th.)
From: "Ken Fisher via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: "Steve Harrington" <stevehar11201@gmail.com> Cc: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, "ICA" <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 6:59:28 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
Me: “Where did the art form methodology come from?
David McKlesky: “Rudolf Bultman. This is his method of scriptural grounding.”
k
On Dec 10, 2015, at 6:09 PM, steve har via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
from the point of view of Imaginal Education and Imaginal Learning.
As I heard it, he asked Is there a difference between an Art Form Conversation and ORID question - and- someone just mentioned a "spirit question".
What is the difference between an art form conversation, an ORID conversation, a spirit question?
Jan Sanders, I know, was recently asked by her teachers and principles at Aruba University why the conversation was called "art form" conversation. It sent her looking back into Brian Stanfield's work and Susan Langer's cultural mythology and meaning making.
Does someone have a generous answer?
-- Steve Harrington _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
We've always said these are "life" methods, modeled after the way people experience life. In addition to our own experience, the verification of this is that one finds multiple variations of the methods used in different contexts by a variety of groups with no obvious connection. Which always leads me to say, we didn't invent these methods, we discovered them , and then put our on spin on them. Randy Sent from my iPad
On Dec 13, 2015, at 6:48 PM, Jo Nelson via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
The way we teach this in our facilitation courses is that ORID is the underlying contentless thinking method, and the Focused Conversation is the tool based on it to guide a group to think clearly.
From the mobile desk of Jo Nelson Please reply to jnelson@ica-associates.ca
On Dec 13, 2015, at 1:57 PM, James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>
A question: Is there a useful distinction between the Art Form Method and the Art Form Conversation?
Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy
401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com
Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona
More info on:
ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation
Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses
The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003
From: W. J. via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Janet Sanders <janetasanders@hotmail.com>; "oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2015 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] FW: I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
There is a paper by Susanne Langer in the Psychology and Art course of the RS/CS curriculum, titled 'Art as Living Form.' It was taught in the Academy (third week). It might have been a handout in CS-I as well. It is not on the Golden Pathways. Langer's Problems of Art is listed in 'foundational works' of the academy curriculum. Her book Philosophy in a New Key was on a longer list as I recall. Marshall
On Friday, December 11, 2015 8:26 PM, Janet Sanders via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
I sent this out yesterday, but not certain it made it into the discussion. Jan
From: janetasanders@hotmail.com To: randycw1938@gmail.com; laurelcg@aol.com; ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com Subject: RE: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 08:32:04 -0500
Hello to all,
In 1971, I took my first course with the EI/ICA called Imaginal Education. I walked into the empty seminar room to get a feel for the space. As I walked around the tables all laid out so intentionally, I vividly remember thinking, "My life will never be the same."
44 years later, I am still in dialogue with the wisdom of that gathering. I was particularily fascinated with with was called the Art Form conversation. At that point the pedagogues talked about it being inspired by Susan Langer's work.
It wasn't until this year that I went looking for Susan's work. I'm attaching and also sending a link for an article of appreciation by Howard Gardner for her work. http://www.anthonyflood.com/gardnerlanger.htm She was using art forms to explore the world of meaning.
From Art, Mind, and Brain: A Cognitive Approach to Creativity, New York, Basic Books, 1982, 48-54.
Philosophy in a New Key Revisited: An Appreciation of Susanne Langer
Janet A. Sanders
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 06:42:34 -0600 To: laurelcg@aol.com CC: ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com; oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday From: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net
The art form has a lot of similarity to Dietrich Bonhoeffer's process for making responsible decisions: observe, judge, weigh-up, decide, act Randy
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 11, 2015, at 12:03 AM, via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
In the mid-80's, Gene Marshall published a binder with different conversation and workshop methods spelled out, for use by House Churches. Think I still have my copy in the garage.
Jann McGuire
-----Original Message----- From: Sherwood Shankland via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com> Cc: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; ICA <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Thu, Dec 10, 2015 7:04 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
A few notes on "art-form" and ORID conversations...In the 60's and 70's the Ecumenical Institute and its faculty from the Faith and Life community at UT Austin, conducted conversation about the impact of works of art. Notably Picaso's Guernica - impressions of saturation bombing; and the film Requim for a Heavyweight staring Anthony Quinn as the washed up boxer who decides that even he can live his life... The focus of these two conversations was not to teach anything directly but rather to allow the participants of the RS-I (Religious Studies - I seminar) to experience their experience of the painting and the film. As pedegogs we were listening to the participants' responses for their theological views, which could guide us in guiding the following sessions of the 44 hour weekend course.
I'm not sure when we formulated the ORID format - Marylin Olyer should know :-) but I associate ORID with our formalizing of facilitator skills training courses and the manuals for Group Facilitation Methods (now ToP Facilitation Methods) and Participatory Strategic Planning (now ToP Strategic Planning). Personally I think that the earlier titles / branding "GFM" and "PSP" are much more self-descriptive and clearer for marketing purposes. I suppose we could use both: "ToP - Group Facilitation Methods"; and "ToP - Participatory Strategic Planning".
Happy Holidays to All.../ Sherwood (on the road facilitating workshop on agricultural development in Kazakhstan and Kyrgykstan...back home Dec 18th.)
From: "Ken Fisher via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: "Steve Harrington" <stevehar11201@gmail.com> Cc: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, "ICA" <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 6:59:28 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
Me: “Where did the art form methodology come from?
David McKlesky: “Rudolf Bultman. This is his method of scriptural grounding.”
k
On Dec 10, 2015, at 6:09 PM, steve har via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
from the point of view of Imaginal Education and Imaginal Learning.
As I heard it, he asked Is there a difference between an Art Form Conversation and ORID question - and- someone just mentioned a "spirit question".
What is the difference between an art form conversation, an ORID conversation, a spirit question?
Jan Sanders, I know, was recently asked by her teachers and principles at Aruba University why the conversation was called "art form" conversation. It sent her looking back into Brian Stanfield's work and Susan Langer's cultural mythology and meaning making.
Does someone have a generous answer?
-- Steve Harrington _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
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Exactly. Thanks, Randy. From the mobile desk of Jo Nelson Please reply to jnelson@ica-associates.ca
On Dec 13, 2015, at 8:20 PM, Randy Williams <randycw1938@gmail.com> wrote:
We've always said these are "life" methods, modeled after the way people experience life. In addition to our own experience, the verification of this is that one finds multiple variations of the methods used in different contexts by a variety of groups with no obvious connection. Which always leads me to say, we didn't invent these methods, we discovered them , and then put our on spin on them. Randy
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 13, 2015, at 6:48 PM, Jo Nelson via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
The way we teach this in our facilitation courses is that ORID is the underlying contentless thinking method, and the Focused Conversation is the tool based on it to guide a group to think clearly.
From the mobile desk of Jo Nelson Please reply to jnelson@ica-associates.ca
On Dec 13, 2015, at 1:57 PM, James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>
A question: Is there a useful distinction between the Art Form Method and the Art Form Conversation?
Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy
401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com
Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona
More info on:
ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation
Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses
The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003
From: W. J. via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Janet Sanders <janetasanders@hotmail.com>; "oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2015 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] FW: I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
There is a paper by Susanne Langer in the Psychology and Art course of the RS/CS curriculum, titled 'Art as Living Form.' It was taught in the Academy (third week). It might have been a handout in CS-I as well. It is not on the Golden Pathways. Langer's Problems of Art is listed in 'foundational works' of the academy curriculum. Her book Philosophy in a New Key was on a longer list as I recall. Marshall
On Friday, December 11, 2015 8:26 PM, Janet Sanders via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
I sent this out yesterday, but not certain it made it into the discussion. Jan
From: janetasanders@hotmail.com To: randycw1938@gmail.com; laurelcg@aol.com; ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com Subject: RE: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 08:32:04 -0500
Hello to all,
In 1971, I took my first course with the EI/ICA called Imaginal Education. I walked into the empty seminar room to get a feel for the space. As I walked around the tables all laid out so intentionally, I vividly remember thinking, "My life will never be the same."
44 years later, I am still in dialogue with the wisdom of that gathering. I was particularily fascinated with with was called the Art Form conversation. At that point the pedagogues talked about it being inspired by Susan Langer's work.
It wasn't until this year that I went looking for Susan's work. I'm attaching and also sending a link for an article of appreciation by Howard Gardner for her work. http://www.anthonyflood.com/gardnerlanger.htm She was using art forms to explore the world of meaning.
From Art, Mind, and Brain: A Cognitive Approach to Creativity, New York, Basic Books, 1982, 48-54.
Philosophy in a New Key Revisited: An Appreciation of Susanne Langer
Janet A. Sanders
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 06:42:34 -0600 To: laurelcg@aol.com CC: ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com; oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday From: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net
The art form has a lot of similarity to Dietrich Bonhoeffer's process for making responsible decisions: observe, judge, weigh-up, decide, act Randy
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 11, 2015, at 12:03 AM, via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
In the mid-80's, Gene Marshall published a binder with different conversation and workshop methods spelled out, for use by House Churches. Think I still have my copy in the garage.
Jann McGuire
-----Original Message----- From: Sherwood Shankland via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com> Cc: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; ICA <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Thu, Dec 10, 2015 7:04 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
A few notes on "art-form" and ORID conversations...In the 60's and 70's the Ecumenical Institute and its faculty from the Faith and Life community at UT Austin, conducted conversation about the impact of works of art. Notably Picaso's Guernica - impressions of saturation bombing; and the film Requim for a Heavyweight staring Anthony Quinn as the washed up boxer who decides that even he can live his life... The focus of these two conversations was not to teach anything directly but rather to allow the participants of the RS-I (Religious Studies - I seminar) to experience their experience of the painting and the film. As pedegogs we were listening to the participants' responses for their theological views, which could guide us in guiding the following sessions of the 44 hour weekend course.
I'm not sure when we formulated the ORID format - Marylin Olyer should know :-) but I associate ORID with our formalizing of facilitator skills training courses and the manuals for Group Facilitation Methods (now ToP Facilitation Methods) and Participatory Strategic Planning (now ToP Strategic Planning). Personally I think that the earlier titles / branding "GFM" and "PSP" are much more self-descriptive and clearer for marketing purposes. I suppose we could use both: "ToP - Group Facilitation Methods"; and "ToP - Participatory Strategic Planning".
Happy Holidays to All.../ Sherwood (on the road facilitating workshop on agricultural development in Kazakhstan and Kyrgykstan...back home Dec 18th.)
From: "Ken Fisher via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: "Steve Harrington" <stevehar11201@gmail.com> Cc: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, "ICA" <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 6:59:28 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
Me: “Where did the art form methodology come from?
David McKlesky: “Rudolf Bultman. This is his method of scriptural grounding.”
k
On Dec 10, 2015, at 6:09 PM, steve har via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
from the point of view of Imaginal Education and Imaginal Learning.
As I heard it, he asked Is there a difference between an Art Form Conversation and ORID question - and- someone just mentioned a "spirit question".
What is the difference between an art form conversation, an ORID conversation, a spirit question?
Jan Sanders, I know, was recently asked by her teachers and principles at Aruba University why the conversation was called "art form" conversation. It sent her looking back into Brian Stanfield's work and Susan Langer's cultural mythology and meaning making.
Does someone have a generous answer?
-- Steve Harrington _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
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Do the terms ORID, Art Form Method, and Art Form Conversation come into being as they intersect the triad of knowing, doing, being? Bud
On Dec 13, 2015, at 4:48 PM, Jo Nelson via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
The way we teach this in our facilitation courses is that ORID is the underlying contentless thinking method, and the Focused Conversation is the tool based on it to guide a group to think clearly.
From the mobile desk of Jo Nelson Please reply to jnelson@ica-associates.ca <mailto:jnelson@ica-associates.ca>
On Dec 13, 2015, at 1:57 PM, James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>>
A question: Is there a useful distinction between the Art Form Method and the Art Form Conversation?
Jim Wiegel <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=123> “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy
401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com <mailto:marilyn.oyler@gmail.com> www.partnersinparticipation.com <http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/> Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=10>
More info on:
ToP® Facilitation Methods <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=48> ToP® Strategic Planning <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=50>: Mastering the Technology of Participation <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz3mniiYCdI>
Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule <http://www.top-training.net/> AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses
The AZ ToP® Community of Practice <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=203> meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 <https://www.google.com/maps/place/648+N+5th+Ave/@33.456329,-112.080545,16z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x872b123a5312512d:0x93c9f71171108956?hl=>
From: W. J. via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> To: Janet Sanders <janetasanders@hotmail.com <mailto:janetasanders@hotmail.com>>; "oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2015 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] FW: I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
There is a paper by Susanne Langer in the Psychology and Art course of the RS/CS curriculum, titled 'Art as Living Form.' It was taught in the Academy (third week). It might have been a handout in CS-I as well. It is not on the Golden Pathways. Langer's Problems of Art is listed in 'foundational works' of the academy curriculum. Her book Philosophy in a New Key was on a longer list as I recall. Marshall
On Friday, December 11, 2015 8:26 PM, Janet Sanders via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
I sent this out yesterday, but not certain it made it into the discussion. Jan
From: janetasanders@hotmail.com <mailto:janetasanders@hotmail.com> To: randycw1938@gmail.com <mailto:randycw1938@gmail.com>; laurelcg@aol.com <mailto:laurelcg@aol.com>; ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com <mailto:ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Subject: RE: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 08:32:04 -0500
Hello to all,
In 1971, I took my first course with the EI/ICA called Imaginal Education. I walked into the empty seminar room to get a feel for the space. As I walked around the tables all laid out so intentionally, I vividly remember thinking, "My life will never be the same."
44 years later, I am still in dialogue with the wisdom of that gathering. I was particularily fascinated with with was called the Art Form conversation. At that point the pedagogues talked about it being inspired by Susan Langer's work.
It wasn't until this year that I went looking for Susan's work. I'm attaching and also sending a link for an article of appreciation by Howard Gardner for her work. http://www.anthonyflood.com/gardnerlanger.htm <http://www.anthonyflood.com/gardnerlanger.htm> She was using art forms to explore the world of meaning.
From Art, Mind, and Brain: A Cognitive Approach to Creativity, New York, Basic Books, 1982, 48-54.
Philosophy in a New Key Revisited: An Appreciation of Susanne Langer
Janet A. Sanders
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 06:42:34 -0600 To: laurelcg@aol.com <mailto:laurelcg@aol.com> CC: ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com <mailto:ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com>; oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday From: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>
The art form has a lot of similarity to Dietrich Bonhoeffer's process for making responsible decisions: observe, judge, weigh-up, decide, act Randy
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 11, 2015, at 12:03 AM, via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
In the mid-80's, Gene Marshall published a binder with different conversation and workshop methods spelled out, for use by House Churches. Think I still have my copy in the garage.
Jann McGuire
-----Original Message----- From: Sherwood Shankland via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> To: Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com <mailto:kenfisher1942@gmail.com>> Cc: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>>; ICA <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com <mailto:ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com>> Sent: Thu, Dec 10, 2015 7:04 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
A few notes on "art-form" and ORID conversations...In the 60's and 70's the Ecumenical Institute and its faculty from the Faith and Life community at UT Austin, conducted conversation about the impact of works of art. Notably Picaso's Guernica - impressions of saturation bombing; and the film Requim for a Heavyweight staring Anthony Quinn as the washed up boxer who decides that even he can live his life... The focus of these two conversations was not to teach anything directly but rather to allow the participants of the RS-I (Religious Studies - I seminar) to experience their experience of the painting and the film. As pedegogs we were listening to the participants' responses for their theological views, which could guide us in guiding the following sessions of the 44 hour weekend course.
I'm not sure when we formulated the ORID format - Marylin Olyer should know :-) but I associate ORID with our formalizing of facilitator skills training courses and the manuals for Group Facilitation Methods (now ToP Facilitation Methods) and Participatory Strategic Planning (now ToP Strategic Planning). Personally I think that the earlier titles / branding "GFM" and "PSP" are much more self-descriptive and clearer for marketing purposes. I suppose we could use both: "ToP - Group Facilitation Methods"; and "ToP - Participatory Strategic Planning".
Happy Holidays to All.../ Sherwood (on the road facilitating workshop on agricultural development in Kazakhstan and Kyrgykstan...back home Dec 18th.)
From: "Ken Fisher via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> To: "Steve Harrington" <stevehar11201@gmail.com <mailto:stevehar11201@gmail.com>> Cc: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>>, "ICA" <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com <mailto:ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com>> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 6:59:28 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
Me: “Where did the art form methodology come from?
David McKlesky: “Rudolf Bultman. This is his method of scriptural grounding.”
k
On Dec 10, 2015, at 6:09 PM, steve har via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
from the point of view of Imaginal Education and Imaginal Learning.
As I heard it, he asked Is there a difference between an Art Form Conversation and ORID question - and- someone just mentioned a "spirit question".
What is the difference between an art form conversation, an ORID conversation, a spirit question?
Jan Sanders, I know, was recently asked by her teachers and principles at Aruba University why the conversation was called "art form" conversation. It sent her looking back into Brian Stanfield's work and Susan Langer's cultural mythology and meaning making.
Does someone have a generous answer?
-- Steve Harrington _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net>
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net>
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Not that I've ever heard of :-) / Cheers, Sherwood One other note: ORID is both a theoretical framework for looking at the world and the sequence for writing questions in a conversation - by what ever name. For example as a framework for a business meeting (agenda): O - Information sharing, project updates 15 min R - Personal updates - How ya doing...how is your team making out? 10 min I - Current issues and tasks for the coming week - 30 min D - Each person's top action items - 5 min. total time - 60 min ----- Original Message ----- From: "H. A. Tillinghast via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: "Jo Nelson" <jnelson@ica-associates.ca> Cc: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Sent: Monday, December 14, 2015 7:39:42 PM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday Do the terms ORID, Art Form Method, and Art Form Conversation come into being as they intersect the triad of knowing, doing, being? Bud On Dec 13, 2015, at 4:48 PM, Jo Nelson via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net > wrote: The way we teach this in our facilitation courses is that ORID is the underlying contentless thinking method, and the Focused Conversation is the tool based on it to guide a group to think clearly.
From the mobile desk of Jo Nelson Please reply to jnelson@ica-associates.ca
On Dec 13, 2015, at 1:57 PM, James Wiegel via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net > <blockquote> A question: Is there a useful distinction between the Art Form Method and the Art Form Conversation? Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning : Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: W. J. via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net > To: Janet Sanders < janetasanders@hotmail.com >; " oe@lists.wedgeblade.net " < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net > Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2015 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] FW: I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday There is a paper by Susanne Langer in the Psychology and Art course of the RS/CS curriculum, titled 'Art as Living Form.' It was taught in the Academy (third week). It might have been a handout in CS-I as well. It is not on the Golden Pathways. Langer's Problems of Art is listed in 'foundational works' of the academy curriculum. Her book Philosophy in a New Key was on a longer list as I recall. Marshall On Friday, December 11, 2015 8:26 PM, Janet Sanders via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net > wrote: I sent this out yesterday, but not certain it made it into the discussion. Jan From: janetasanders@hotmail.com To: randycw1938@gmail.com ; laurelcg@aol.com ; ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com Subject: RE: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 08:32:04 -0500 Hello to all, In 1971, I took my first course with the EI/ICA called Imaginal Education. I walked into the empty seminar room to get a feel for the space. As I walked around the tables all laid out so intentionally, I vividly remember thinking, "My life will never be the same." 44 years later, I am still in dialogue with the wisdom of that gathering. I was particularily fascinated with with was called the Art Form conversation. At that point the pedagogues talked about it being inspired by Susan Langer's work. It wasn't until this year that I went looking for Susan's work. I'm attaching and also sending a link for an article of appreciation by Howard Gardner for her work. http://www.anthonyflood.com/gardnerlanger.htm She was using art forms to explore the world of meaning.
From Art, Mind, and Brain: A Cognitive Approach to Creativity, New York, Basic Books, 1982, 48-54. Philosophy in a New Key Revisited: An Appreciation of Susanne Langer
Janet A. Sanders Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 06:42:34 -0600 To: laurelcg@aol.com CC: ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com ; oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday From: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net The art form has a lot of similarity to Dietrich Bonhoeffer's process for making responsible decisions: observe, judge, weigh-up, decide, act Randy Sent from my iPad On Dec 11, 2015, at 12:03 AM, via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net > wrote: <blockquote> In the mid-80's, Gene Marshall published a binder with different conversation and workshop methods spelled out, for use by House Churches . Think I still have my copy in the garage. Jann McGuire -----Original Message----- From: Sherwood Shankland via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net > To: Ken Fisher < kenfisher1942@gmail.com > Cc: Order Ecumenical Community < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net >; ICA < ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com > Sent: Thu, Dec 10, 2015 7:04 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday A few notes on "art-form" and ORID conversations...In the 60's and 70's the Ecumenical Institute and its faculty from the Faith and Life community at UT Austin, conducted conversation about the impact of works of art. Notably Picaso's Guernica - impressions of saturation bombing; and the film Requim for a Heavyweight staring Anthony Quinn as the washed up boxer who decides that even he can live his life... The focus of these two conversations was not to teach anything directly but rather to allow the participants of the RS-I (Religious Studies - I seminar) to experience their experience of the painting and the film. As pedegogs we were listening to the participants' responses for their theological views, which could guide us in guiding the following sessions of the 44 hour weekend course. I'm not sure when we formulated the ORID format - Marylin Olyer should know :-) but I associate ORID with our formalizing of facilitator skills training courses and the manuals for Group Facilitation Methods (now ToP Facilitation Methods) and Participatory Strategic Planning (now ToP Strategic Planning). Personally I think that the earlier titles / branding "GFM" and "PSP" are much more self-descriptive and clearer for marketing purposes. I suppose we could use both: "ToP - Group Facilitation Methods"; and "ToP - Participatory Strategic Planning". Happy Holidays to All.../ Sherwood (on the road facilitating workshop on agricultural development in Kazakhstan and Kyrgykstan...back home Dec 18th.) From: "Ken Fisher via OE" < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net > To: "Steve Harrington" < stevehar11201@gmail.com > Cc: "Order Ecumenical Community" < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net >, "ICA" < ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 6:59:28 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday Me: “Where did the art form methodology come from? David McKlesky: “Rudolf Bultman. This is his method of scriptural grounding.” k On Dec 10, 2015, at 6:09 PM, steve har via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net > wrote: from the point of view of Imaginal Education and Imaginal Learning. As I heard it, he asked Is there a difference between an Art Form Conversation and ORID question - and- someone just mentioned a "spirit question". What is the difference between an art form conversation, an ORID conversation, a spirit question? Jan Sanders, I know, was recently asked by her teachers and principles at Aruba University why the conversation was called "art form" conversation. It sent her looking back into Brian Stanfield's work and Susan Langer's cultural mythology and meaning making. Does someone have a generous answer? -- Steve Harrington _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <blockquote> _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net </blockquote> _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net </blockquote> <blockquote> _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net </blockquote> _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net </blockquote> _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Name me something that DOES NOT intersect that triad . . . Or, what is your insight, Bud? Jim Wiegel 401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353 Tel. 011-623-936-8671 or 011-623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com "She wasn’t doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together.” —J. D. Salinger, “A Girl I Knew” Get ready to Celebrate the 25th Anniversary of the ToP Network. January 8-11, 2016. Here in Arizona. http://youtu.be/2uEoJlDC5mg Upcoming public course opportunities click here http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=10 For online registration go to http://www.top-training.net The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, 1-4 pm, starting again on Sept 5th at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses
On Dec 14, 2015, at 08:46, Sherwood Shankland via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Not that I've ever heard of :-) / Cheers, Sherwood
One other note: ORID is both a theoretical framework for looking at the world and the sequence for writing questions in a conversation - by what ever name. For example as a framework for a business meeting (agenda): O - Information sharing, project updates 15 min R - Personal updates - How ya doing...how is your team making out? 10 min I - Current issues and tasks for the coming week - 30 min D - Each person's top action items - 5 min. total time - 60 min
From: "H. A. Tillinghast via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: "Jo Nelson" <jnelson@ica-associates.ca> Cc: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Sent: Monday, December 14, 2015 7:39:42 PM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
Do the terms ORID, Art Form Method, and Art Form Conversation come into being as they intersect the triad of knowing, doing, being?
Bud
On Dec 13, 2015, at 4:48 PM, Jo Nelson via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
The way we teach this in our facilitation courses is that ORID is the underlying contentless thinking method, and the Focused Conversation is the tool based on it to guide a group to think clearly.
From the mobile desk of Jo Nelson Please reply to jnelson@ica-associates.ca
On Dec 13, 2015, at 1:57 PM, James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>
A question: Is there a useful distinction between the Art Form Method and the Art Form Conversation?
Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy
401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com
Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona
More info on:
ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation
Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses
The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003
From: W. J. via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Janet Sanders <janetasanders@hotmail.com>; "oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2015 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] FW: I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
There is a paper by Susanne Langer in the Psychology and Art course of the RS/CS curriculum, titled 'Art as Living Form.' It was taught in the Academy (third week). It might have been a handout in CS-I as well. It is not on the Golden Pathways. Langer's Problems of Art is listed in 'foundational works' of the academy curriculum. Her book Philosophy in a New Key was on a longer list as I recall. Marshall
On Friday, December 11, 2015 8:26 PM, Janet Sanders via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
I sent this out yesterday, but not certain it made it into the discussion. Jan
From: janetasanders@hotmail.com To: randycw1938@gmail.com; laurelcg@aol.com; ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com Subject: RE: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 08:32:04 -0500
Hello to all,
In 1971, I took my first course with the EI/ICA called Imaginal Education. I walked into the empty seminar room to get a feel for the space. As I walked around the tables all laid out so intentionally, I vividly remember thinking, "My life will never be the same."
44 years later, I am still in dialogue with the wisdom of that gathering. I was particularily fascinated with with was called the Art Form conversation. At that point the pedagogues talked about it being inspired by Susan Langer's work.
It wasn't until this year that I went looking for Susan's work. I'm attaching and also sending a link for an article of appreciation by Howard Gardner for her work. http://www.anthonyflood.com/gardnerlanger.htm She was using art forms to explore the world of meaning.
From Art, Mind, and Brain: A Cognitive Approach to Creativity, New York, Basic Books, 1982, 48-54.
Philosophy in a New Key Revisited: An Appreciation of Susanne Langer
Janet A. Sanders
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 06:42:34 -0600 To: laurelcg@aol.com CC: ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com; oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday From: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net
The art form has a lot of similarity to Dietrich Bonhoeffer's process for making responsible decisions: observe, judge, weigh-up, decide, act Randy
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 11, 2015, at 12:03 AM, via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
In the mid-80's, Gene Marshall published a binder with different conversation and workshop methods spelled out, for use by House Churches. Think I still have my copy in the garage.
Jann McGuire
-----Original Message----- From: Sherwood Shankland via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com> Cc: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; ICA <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Thu, Dec 10, 2015 7:04 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
A few notes on "art-form" and ORID conversations...In the 60's and 70's the Ecumenical Institute and its faculty from the Faith and Life community at UT Austin, conducted conversation about the impact of works of art. Notably Picaso's Guernica - impressions of saturation bombing; and the film Requim for a Heavyweight staring Anthony Quinn as the washed up boxer who decides that even he can live his life... The focus of these two conversations was not to teach anything directly but rather to allow the participants of the RS-I (Religious Studies - I seminar) to experience their experience of the painting and the film. As pedegogs we were listening to the participants' responses for their theological views, which could guide us in guiding the following sessions of the 44 hour weekend course.
I'm not sure when we formulated the ORID format - Marylin Olyer should know :-) but I associate ORID with our formalizing of facilitator skills training courses and the manuals for Group Facilitation Methods (now ToP Facilitation Methods) and Participatory Strategic Planning (now ToP Strategic Planning). Personally I think that the earlier titles / branding "GFM" and "PSP" are much more self-descriptive and clearer for marketing purposes. I suppose we could use both: "ToP - Group Facilitation Methods"; and "ToP - Participatory Strategic Planning".
Happy Holidays to All.../ Sherwood (on the road facilitating workshop on agricultural development in Kazakhstan and Kyrgykstan...back home Dec 18th.)
From: "Ken Fisher via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: "Steve Harrington" <stevehar11201@gmail.com> Cc: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, "ICA" <ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 6:59:28 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday
Me: “Where did the art form methodology come from?
David McKlesky: “Rudolf Bultman. This is his method of scriptural grounding.”
k
On Dec 10, 2015, at 6:09 PM, steve har via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
from the point of view of Imaginal Education and Imaginal Learning.
As I heard it, he asked Is there a difference between an Art Form Conversation and ORID question - and- someone just mentioned a "spirit question".
What is the difference between an art form conversation, an ORID conversation, a spirit question?
Jan Sanders, I know, was recently asked by her teachers and principles at Aruba University why the conversation was called "art form" conversation. It sent her looking back into Brian Stanfield's work and Susan Langer's cultural mythology and meaning making.
Does someone have a generous answer?
-- Steve Harrington _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
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_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
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participants (9)
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H. A. Tillinghast via OE -
Isobel Jim Bishop via OE
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James Wiegel via OE
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Janet Sanders via OE
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Jo Nelson via OE
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Ken Fisher via OE
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Randy Williams via OE
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Sherwood Shankland via OE
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W. J. via OE