“Giving ‘em hope” is about creating an inclusive practical vision within a community that motivates a practical action plan addressing a major contradiction. Marshall On Thursday, December 29, 2022 at 08:22:58 AM PST, Ellie Stock via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: A Conversation with Rachel Laser - Part 1#yiv6852399000 p{margin:10px 0;padding:0;}#yiv6852399000 table{border-collapse:collapse;}#yiv6852399000 h1, #yiv6852399000 h2, #yiv6852399000 h3, #yiv6852399000 h4, #yiv6852399000 h5, #yiv6852399000 h6{display:block;margin:0;padding:0;}#yiv6852399000 img, #yiv6852399000 a img{border:0;height:auto;outline:none;text-decoration:none;}#yiv6852399000 body, #yiv6852399000 #yiv6852399000bodyTable, #yiv6852399000 #yiv6852399000bodyCell{min-height:100%;margin:0;padding:0;width:100%;}#yiv6852399000 .yiv6852399000mcnPreviewText{display:none !important;}#yiv6852399000 #yiv6852399000outlook a{padding:0;}#yiv6852399000 img{}#yiv6852399000 table{}#yiv6852399000 .yiv6852399000ReadMsgBody{width:100%;}#yiv6852399000 .yiv6852399000ExternalClass{width:100%;}#yiv6852399000 p, #yiv6852399000 a, #yiv6852399000 li, #yiv6852399000 td, 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p{font-size:16px !important;line-height:150% !important;}}@media only screen and (max-width:480px){#yiv6852399000 #yiv6852399000templateBody .yiv6852399000mcnTextContent, #yiv6852399000 #yiv6852399000templateBody .yiv6852399000mcnTextContent p{font-size:14px !important;line-height:150% !important;}}@media only screen and (max-width:480px){#yiv6852399000 #yiv6852399000templateFooter .yiv6852399000mcnTextContent, #yiv6852399000 #yiv6852399000templateFooter .yiv6852399000mcnTextContent p{font-size:12px !important;line-height:150% !important;}} By Rev. David Felten | | | | View this email in your browser | | | | | | | | | | | | | | A Conversation with Rachel Laser Americans United for the Separation of Church and State Part 2: On the Rise of Christian Nationalism and What We Can Do About It | | | | | | | | | | The following is Part 2 of two columns drawn from an interview with Rachel Laser, President of Americans United for the Separation of Church and State, December 1st, 2022. It has been edited for length and focus. Read Part 1 HERE. By Rev. David Felten December 29, 2022 _______________________________________ David Felten: While it’s not new, Christian Nationalism seems to be gaining all kinds of traction of late. What do you see as the biggest threat to our identity as Americans from the rise in Christian Nationalism? Rachel Laser: The biggest threat is to our democracy. If Christian Nationalists get their way, they will topple our democracy. America will cease to be America. We witnessed religious extremists’ attack on our democracy firsthand in the parading Christian flags at the Jan. 6 insurrection. David Felten: What's the Christian Nationalist alternative to democracy? Rachel Laser: Democracy relies on the value of equality. De Tocqueville said that Democracy was the thing that Americans prized over everything. David Felten: We just don't do it well. Rachel Laser: Right. We continue to evolve towards it, but Christian Nationalism would throw away equality in favor of power and privilege for conservative Christians. They believe that America was created by and for white Christians and that our laws should reflect that. But if our laws do reflect that, then they are in direct opposition to democratic values and we no longer have a democracy, which is why we saw so many Christian Nationalists at the insurrection. Ultimately, democracy is an obstacle to their end goal. David Felten: Wow. In the face of all that, what can ordinary people do to be alert to and take action against Christian Nationalism? Rachel Laser: First, we can't underestimate voting. I think what we saw in the midterms is that, when people believe in the power of their voices, (which clearly Generation Z does), we can win elections. And the counterpart to voting is holding onto hope — realizing that the reason we're seeing such a backlash right now (and such an emboldened Christian Nationalist movement) is because we are evolving in the right direction. We need to continue to have hope that it's possible to keep going in that direction and to overcome this anti-democratic movement. The paramount thing the average American can do, along with holding on to hope, is continuing to take actions to ensure that America prevails over this moment and can continue to evolve as we always have: to become our better self. David Felten: I think a lot of people are skeptical of the idea of hope because they immediately assume you’re talking about a pie-in-the-sky kind of optimism. But hope really is a verb, it’s an incentive to actually get out and do something. How do you see people actually manifesting hope? Rachel Laser: In a political context, I think hope is not just continuing to visualize success (which is part of it) but to believe that you can be part of making it happen through your actions, that you can actualize success. And if people are able to visualize success, but then don't actually believe their actions can be fruitful towards advancing success, we're in big trouble. Fortunately, though, people did believe in the power of their own voices this past election. And over time, Americans have demonstrated that they show up to hold our country accountable to its promises. Even in this moment of emboldened religious extremism, we continue to evolve to be more inclusive. President Biden just signed into law the Respect for Marriage Act to preserve and protect marriage equality for interracial couples and same sex couples. That's huge! And another victory in America’s evolution towards her better self. David Felten: I've been working towards LGBTQ rights and marriage equality for most of my career, and what you learn over time is that it’s a long process — often one step forward, two steps back. If people haven’t been involved in this kind of long-term activism, I think folks can often get discouraged. Rachel Laser: That's exactly right. I mean, if you look at the Carson v. Makin case, (where the Supreme Court forced Maine taxpayers to fund religious education and religious discrimination), the same players who brought the case this term (2022) had brought the case multiple times before. The exact same case! Starting in the 1990s. They lost repeatedly until now. But their supporters stuck with them, their funders stuck with them, and ultimately, they prevailed. So, you're right, we not only have to believe in the power of our voices, but believe that we can lose forward and that eventually adds up to winning. David Felten: Did you just say “lose forward”? I'm writing that down. Is that expression a “Rachelism” or is it out there and I just haven’t heard it before? Rachel Laser: I've heard it before, but it's something I like to use because I need to remind myself as a person who believes in hope and who actualizes hope that it's a long game that we're playing and that we will prevail even if we don't always live to see it — but hopefully we will. David Felten: Broadly speaking, the demographic of Progressive Christians tends to be privileged white, middle and upper middle class senior citizens. What can we do against these conservative, well-funded, and well-organized principalities and powers? Rachel Laser: Number one, they can correct the record. Especially speaking as Christians, their voice is powerful to explain that America wasn't intended to be a Christian nation. It was to be a nation that embraced religious freedom and religious pluralism for everyone. And I think speaking from the Christian perspective, correcting that record is critical. David Felten: Using one’s privilege for the benefit of others. Rachel Laser: Exactly. When Americans United hired me as the first female and the first Jewish leader of the group in its 75 years, I told the hiring committee, "Look, I'm going to surround myself with Christian leaders (other religious leaders too), but certainly Christian leaders." David Felten: Those of us who were initiating work toward LGBTQ rights here in Phoenix 30 years ago were very intentional about letting people know we were straight Christian clergy, leveraging our straight, white privilege to legitimate the argument for equality. Rachel Laser: Exactly. And it's because of where the power structures lie and because we are still a majority Christian nation right now that Christians have a lot of moral authority. They’re the baseline. So, Christians that care about democracy and about their neighbors —and about America staying America — need to use their voices to correct the record and to connect the dots between Church-State Separation and the many other issues that topple when the Wall of Separation falls down. Those include reproductive freedom, LGBTQ equality, public schools, science guiding our public policy, racial justice, the rights of racial and religious minorities and the non-religious and ultimately, the freedom of even white conservative Christians who themselves would suffer immensely living in an America that is no longer America. David Felten: So, this isn’t a task just for religious leaders, but for everyone. Rachel Laser: Yes, but I think it’s especially important for religious leaders to use their pulpits, their ability to publish an op-ed in the local paper, and their leadership within their communities to spread the gospel of American values. David Felten: What have I not asked you about that people really need to hear from you right now? Rachel Laser: That it's time for a national recommitment to Church-State Separation. If we keep taking the separation of religion and government for granted as some given that was established in the late 1790s, that will be “it” for us. Going forward, we will lose so many of our cherished freedoms and ultimately, our democracy will topple. So, it's time to reignite passion behind the Separation of Church and State. And everyone needs to get on board. — Rev. David Felten with Rachel Laser Read online here ___________________________ Americans United for Separation of Church and State is a nonpartisan, not-for-profit educational and advocacy organization that brings together people of all religions and none to protect the right of everyone to believe as they want — and stop anyone from using their beliefs to harm others. AU fights in the courts, legislatures, and the public square for freedom without favor and equality without exception. If you’d like to find out more about how Americans United shields our shared laws from the influence of any one religion so we can be free to come together as equals and build a stronger democracy, check out their website at au.org. Rachel Laser is the President and CEO at Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Rachel Laser is a lawyer, advocate and strategist who has dedicated her career to making our country more inclusive. For her biography, visit her profile page at au.org. Rev. David M. Felten is a full-time pastor at The Fountains, a United Methodist Church in Fountain Hills, Arizona. David and fellow United Methodist Pastor, Jeff Procter-Murphy, are the creators of the DVD-based discussion series for Progressive Christians, “Living the Questions” and authors of Living the Questions: The Wisdom of Progressive Christianity. A co-founder of Catalyst Arizona and also a founding member of No Longer Silent: Clergy for Justice, David is an outspoken voice for LGBTQ rights both in the church and in the community at large. David is active in the Desert Southwest Conference of the United Methodist Church and tries to stay connected to his roots as a musician. You’ll find him playing saxophones in a variety of settings, including appearances with the Fountain Hills Saxophone Quartet. David is the proud father of three reliably remarkable human beings. Visit his website here. | | | | | | | | Question & Answer Q: By Jennie How do we really know what Jesus said? They get so much wrong. Is it not a house of cards? A: By Bishop John Shelby Spong Dear Jennie,It is not easy to determine what Jesus actually said or did, but I believe it is more substantial than a house of cards. Probably the reason traditional Catholics and evangelical Protestant fundamentalists try to literalize the Bible is that they recognize how fragile their grasp on truth really is and, unable to be secure in that fragility, they make incredible claims for the literal words of scripture or for the teaching authority of the church. Literalism in any form is little more than pious hysteria.The problems are that we have nothing in writing from the time Jesus lived. The earliest material in the New Testament would be Paul's Epistles, written 20-34 years after the crucifixion and by a man who did not know the human Jesus. Paul's conversion is dated some one to six years after the crucifixion. From Paul we learn that Jesus was crucified, that he introduced the Lord's Supper and that he was perceived as alive in some way following the crucifixion and little more.The gospels are written between 70 at the earliest (Mark) and 100 at the latest (John). Yet all four gospels reveal the impact of this Jesus on a variety of people. The Fellows of the Jesus Seminar spent more than a decade going over everything that the four gospels record Jesus as ever having said. When they completed this study, they determined that no more than 16% of the sayings of Jesus are authentic to the man Jesus which, of course, means that some 84% of the sayings attributed to Jesus are not historically accurate. The Seminar did not find a single word attributed to Jesus in the Fourth Gospel (John) to be authentic. The Jesus of John's gospel speaks to the concerns of the Christian Church near the end of the first century, not the literal words of a man of history.I think I can demonstrate that all four of the gospel writers knew they were not writing either history or biography. Each was interpreting Jesus in the context of their relationship with the Synagogue and their time in history, most especially following the Jewish-Roman War when in 70 CE the city of Jerusalem was leveled by the Roman invaders.If we looked at the gospels as portraits of Jesus painted by the second or even third generation of Christians and not as photographs or tape recordings capturing his exact deeds and words, I think we would be closer to the truth.I believe the gospels give us insight into the impact of a man of history and they open the doors for an exploration into the mystery and wonders of God. That is why I treasure them.~ John Shelby Spong December 11, 2008 Read and share online here | | | | | | | | Please continue to send us your feedback… we are listening. We aim to give voice to many different perspectives that are relevant and inspiring along this spiritually progressing path. We are not here to tell you what to believe or how to act. We are here to support your journey, to share and learn together.Thank you for being a part of this community - join us on Facebook! | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | We want to remind you that if you’re grateful for ProgressiveChristianity.org, we could really use your help. We are $21,500 short of making our year-end fundraising goal that will determine what we can do for 2023. If you have already donated, thank you! If you have not donated yet, please do so today. There is so much more we can do and offer our readership with your support! Could you help by contributing? Recurring donations, in particular, help ensure that we have the income that we need to operate each month.Thank you so much for your generosity,Rev. Dr. Caleb J. Lines and Rev. Dr. Mark Sandlin Co-Executive Directors Help keep ProgressiveChristianity.org and Progressing Spirit online and going strong - click here to donate today! | | | | | | | | | | | Don't miss the next Episode of PC.org's Executive Directors Mark and Caleb on: The Moonshine Jesus Show - every Monday at 4:30pm Eastern Time – watch live on Facebook,, YouTube, Twitter, Podbean | | | | | | | | | Bishop John Shelby Spong Revisited A Meditation on the State of America on its 237th Birthday Essay by Bishop John Shelby Spong July 11, 2013The United States celebrated its 237th birthday this past week. It seems, therefore, a fitting time for some moments of national reflection. In today’s column I seek to identify some of the forces that now appear to hold this nation in its grip. America is, I believe, going through an identity transition in which a new definition is emerging as to who and what this nation is. Such a time of expanding consciousness is never easy for a nation to endure. These transitions normally create great anger, but they are inevitable for, in the words of the poet James Russell Lowell, “time makes ancient good uncouth.” Change is a necessary aspect of every living thing. Death alone ends change. The power of change, as well as its fear, is present in the three major debates that engage America today. All of them have aroused intense political feelings and highly-spiced political rhetoric. I seek not to judge the rightness or wrongness of the competing sides, but to help myself and others to understand what these issues mean; out of what they might arise; why such deep emotions swirl around them, and finally, to see if the resources of our Christian faith have anything to bring to bear on the debate.The three debated issues are: 1) the move to fix our immigration laws, 2) the constant anti-female bias and rhetoric that shows up in a variety of bills targeting a wide array of issues, 3) gun control laws, especially the requirement of a background check before gun purchases. The irrationality of the debates becomes immediately obvious when we ask the obvious questions: Why does a nation of immigrants have such negativity about immigration? Why do males seem to be threatened by females so deeply that they harass and seek to control them in public life? What is it that causes the citizens of this nation to own more guns per person by a huge number than the citizens of any other nation in the world? Another interesting thing about these debates is that polls reveal a decisive majority of American voters believe that the immigration laws need to be changed; that women should have equality in both economic life and in health care, including reproductive health care and birth control, and that background checks for gun ownership should be required by law. So our curiosity is aroused as to why our elected leaders have chosen on each of these issues to defy this majority point of view.These debates have also aroused excessive emotions. Such frenzy reveals the presence of feeling, operating consciously and unconsciously. I want to understand these emotions. All three of these contentious issues are, I believe, related. Each reflects a nation in transition and each reveals a dramatic shift in power. It is the stuff of politics and nation building.A quick view of some historical facts might be helpful. This nation was not born as a democracy, but as a republic in which the right to vote was both controlled and limited. A prerequisite for voting was the ownership of land. That fact limited the franchise originally to upper class, well-to-do white males, but the pool of voters was destined in time to be increased dramatically, making control less and less possible. Non land-owning white males were the first to be added to the voting rolls, although poll taxes were quickly passed by the land-owning white male legislatures to discourage massive voter participation. Poll taxes kept poor whites from voting before they were used as a racial tool. That step, nonetheless, began to stretch the power of white males if ever so slightly. Following the Civil War, the vote was extended by a constitutional amendment to black males, but in the South, where the majority of the black people lived, intimidation made black voting dangerous and so the black vote was minimized. The poll tax now had a racial purpose. To this the threats of physical violence including lynching were added by the Ku Klux Klan. When those tactics came to be treated as crimes other means of suppressing the black vote would be devised. Requiring special voter identification and limiting voting hours are two of them.In 1920 a constitutional amendment was adopted extending the vote to women. Great male fear accompanied that amendment and its passage was fought with hysterical rhetoric. Among the reasons used to deny women the vote were these: Women didn’t understand politics! Women vote on emotions not rationality! Women might get together and elect the wrong person! The fact is that during the first seventy-five years of women voting, they split in an almost identical pattern with the men’s vote. As more women began to be educated, however, and to enter the work place as business executives, politicians, doctor, lawyers and even clergy a significant gender gap developed in American politics. In 1996, the women’s vote finally and decisively did elect the president of the United States, returning Bill Clinton to the White House for a second term. Without the women’s vote, Robert Dole of Kansas would have become the President of the United States. That gender gap was even larger in 2012. White male power was shaken. As long as women could be controlled by their biology and thereby be restricted by their inability to plan their families then competition from women for power could be minimized. The opposition to birth control and abortion was the immediate result.In 1954, the Civil Rights movement succeeded in desegregating the schools and in 1964 and 1965 a public accommodation act and a voting rights act were passed and black people began to climb the ladder toward economic and political power. These black voters did not vote for the party of Lincoln, but for the party that best addressed their economic agenda.Also in 1965 the Hart-Celler National Immigration Act was passed ending the system of immigration quotas assigned to each nation, which had served to privilege immigration from the nations of Europe and to limit severely immigration from Latin America, Asia and Africa. Now immigration, legal and illegal, began to change the complexion of the American body politic. It became more brown, more black, more female and younger. The Senate now reflects this shift, with twenty women senators forming a critical mass. The House of Representatives also reflects this shift. The Congressional Black Caucus has become a force with which to reckon. Then in 1971, and as the result of the Vietnam War, a constitutional amendment was passed lowering the voting age in America from 21 to 18, adding three more years of youthful voters to the voting rolls and once again a shift in the voting population was achieved.Later in 2008, the power of white males ruling America was broken and, to the horror of some, an African-American senator won the White House, defeating an American war hero and a long time member of the ruling establishment. The response to this election was a determined effort to limit him to one term and a campaign was waged against his legitimacy. His birth in the United States was questioned. He was accused by Newt Gingrich, the former speaker of the House of Representatives, of “channeling his Kenyan father’s anti-colonial prejudices.” The Tea Party was born to call America back to yesterday’s values. They were against immigration and against women having the power to free themselves from biological necessity.Despite all of this frenzied activity, the President was re-elected in 2012 by an even larger majority. When the vote in the 2012 election was analyzed, Mr. Romney still won the majority of white male voters, but only among those over 40. President Obama won large majorities among black voters, Latino voters, women voters and young voters, giving him the victory.The fear level among white males was now at frenetic levels. They looked into the future and saw a woman standing in the wings ready to take them on and to win the White House in 2016. They saw the Latino and the black populations growing. They saw the women’s vote becoming as militant as that of the Tea Party. They saw young people rising in power. It was as if they were facing a “last stand” and every tactic of opposition and gridlock began to be used.If the immigration bill were to pass, eleven million, now illegal, residents would be added to the voting rolls. Women were no longer willing to be second class citizens. Next a move was being made to limit their access to guns. The fear became rampant. Gridlock became real.A new America is being born – those who were once treated as outcasts are now owning their place in America’s life. Those who once ruled without serious challenge are seeing their power weakened and passing to those who seem to them to be “different, foreign or alien.” Fear creates irrationality, ideological arrogance and efforts to suppress. History reveals, however, that these tactics never work. The United States is in the process of learning that today.That kind of fear is always greater than the reality it fears. New leadership tends to carry on far more than to destroy. Women in power become both Democrats and Republicans. When blacks and Latinos become wealthy citizens, they too will become conservative. When young people grow older, they will increasingly reflect the values of the establishment. So America will walk through this transition. The Republican Party will ultimately move back to the center and in time will be returned to power. History reveals that despite all the changes I have outlined, the White House has in the last 113 years been occupied by the Republicans for 60 years and by the Democrats for 53 years. This country has remarkable balance.Finally, in this political process we, as a people, are redefining humanity. We are learning an ancient biblical lesson: In Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile, Democrat nor Republican, male nor female, gay nor straight, black nor white, bond nor free, there is simply a new humanity, a humanity without barriers or boundaries, celebrating all that humanity can be.I suggest that we ride out the political storm that is raging in America at this moment and see it as little more than the birth pangs of a new understanding of what it means to see the image of God in every human life. Happy 237th!~ John Shelby Spong | | | | | | | | Announcements Spiritual Literacy Certificate Programs – 2023 Spirituality & Practice invites you to become part of the inaugural group for two training programs based on the recognition that all of life is a spiritual practice. These programs are for individual seekers, spiritual leaders and companions, caregivers and service providers, and activists in change-making organizations. 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