Sent using myEarthLink On Mon Feb 17 13:56:04 MST 2025 Isobel and Jim via OE wrote: Hello everyone and thank you for such treats for the spirit mind 😊 Oh Parker Palmer, how gracious and : comprehensive futuric and intentional. I see each one of you in my mind, as you write what for me, are your pearls. As Charlie Angus said ( thanks Ken), Canada feels more isolated, and yet more in unity. The Maguires from Australia articulate the anguish of the moment for us and for the global village. We/ I sitting in Sydney, resonate deeply with the dismantling of democracy as you’ve observed in your country. Drip by drip all around me here. I recently heard a podcast in which Jonathan Rauch an American Journalist ( writes for the Atlantic and is attached to the Brookings Institution )- describes his new Book- ‘Cross Purposes, Christianity’s Broken Bargin With Democracy’. As a Jew he states that Christianity has its mandate: Read the Gospels, because they call us to :- 1.Don’t be afraid (Jesus most frequent call to attention ). 2.Imitate Christ ( I prefer Think like Christ) 3. Forgive Jonathan gives us our mandate, and in particular to American Christianity. Listening to the podcast from: Uncomfortable Conversations by Josh Szeps ( Australian) reminded me of that book we read ; The Way Of All The Earth By Fr John Dunne, A Jesuit based in the 70’s at Loyola University, Chicago. Dunne describes how he travelled from his Christian roots over into the other great faith traditions, took some insights he enjoyed and returned to his own tradition . Rauch is doing that from his Jewish tradition over into American Christianity. I commend Rauch at this sentinel moment in the ‘world wide, history long’ journey of human civilisation. Thank you and yes to Parker Palmer: The Tragic Gap- what a beautiful insight. The ‘no longer and the not yet.’ comes to mind again through his touch. Grace and peace are yours, Isobel Bishop Isobel Bishop Mob. (tel:0412129425)0412 129 425 (tel:0412129425)
On 18 Feb 2025, at 6:16 am, Ronnie Seagren via OE <
(mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> oe@lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> wrote:
Thanks to all for this ongoing dialogue.
Carleton mentioned Project 2025; the whole thing is 885 pages. If you want to dive in, you might find this online index helps you find what you're looking for. It links directly to the text.
(https://www.project2025index.com/)> https://www.project2025index.com/
Ronnie On Mon, Feb 17, 2025 at 11:56 AM carletonstock--- via OE <
(mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> oe@lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)
wrote: Happy Presidents Day in America! As flawed as all people are, especially presidents, I still celebrate all those who have served in that office while also tolerating their misinformed and misguided decisions and policies. After only a month. however, this current president and his administration have shown us that they will be following the Project 2025 playbook and its far-right agenda. I hope you have had a chance to at least read a summary of it. It is plainly leading us toward autocracy in America. I will put up with a lot from our presidents but I draw the line when it comes to tearing down the democratic form of government! I am determined to hold this government accountable to following the rule of law and the Constitution. I know many of you are too. It's going to be a long four years (maybe longer)! Hang in there! Keep the faith! Carleton Stock Oberlin, Ohio
On Monday, February 17, 2025 at 12:58:25 AM CST, Kevin Balm via OE <
(mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > oe@lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)
wrote:
Dear Colleagues,
This past week I facilitated the annual Senior Leadership Team retreat (a planning session in reality) for the UN Economic Commission for Africa. I have been facilitating and training various teams in this institution for 7-8 years now and finally got the opportunity to facilitate the senior most team. Unlike with the counterpart commission for Asia Pacific where I started with the senior team, I had to build up to this opportunity. My equivalent of the Ronin story from the old LENS programs is Parker J Palmer’s writings (and short videos), particularly his piece (attached) on “Finding your Soul” from his book “ Let Your Life Speak: Listening for the Voice of Vocation”. I especially like his Quaker metaphor for a Power Point – the Mobius Strip. I pause reading and demonstrate at this point. As with previous groups, individuals in this senior leadership group wanted to have copies of the reading.
His “Courage to Teach” curriculum reminds me of our “Courage to Lead”. In fact much of Parker J Palmer’s work resonates strongly for me with OE/ICA teachings. The link below is his take on the Trans-establishment Stance.
(https://couragerenewal.org/library/hhd-standing-and-acting-in-the-tragic-gap/)> > https://couragerenewal.org/library/hhd-standing-and-acting-in-the-tragic-gap...
Kevin Balm
From: OE <
(mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net)
On Behalf Of Bill Parker via OE Sent: Monday, 10 February 2025 2:44 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community <
(mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > oe@lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)
Cc: Bill Parker <
(mailto:bparker1251963@gmail.com)> > bparker1251963@gmail.com (mailto:bparker1251963@gmail.com)
; Richard and Maria Maguire <
(mailto:richardandmaria@unfoldingfutures.net)> > richardandmaria@unfoldingfutures.net (mailto:richardandmaria@unfoldingfutures.net)
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] 1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience"
We need a session on “a path forward”. Our specific experience, context, and process understanding is exactly what is needed now.
Bill Parker
On Feb 9, 2025, at 6:59 PM, Richard and Maria Maguire via OE <
(mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > oe@lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)
wrote:
Hi
I agree with what Randy, Ken and Dharmalingam say to a great extent, and would like to add something. I believe that most if not all of the people on this list are in great pain about what is going on now and what has been going on for past many decades and even centuries that have led up to the current situation. I know for sure that we have been working for decades to support and entirely new approach to society, but in spite of our efforts and those of millions of others, the powerful close ranks and push forward. We are not alone in having done a lot and also not alone in feeling the pain.
To my mind the Trump clique, both the American and international one, would like to distract their citizens from the attacks on democracy that they and others have been carrying out for a long time. At the same time it seems to me that they would like to push the colonial project on further against the will and wishes of most people. They have grabbed the positions of power in the media, education, productive industry, government and so much more, and would love to go further.
That so many American citizens remain so ignorant of the rest of the world and even most of the rest of their own nation is another great pain, and this continues despite our and many others' significant efforts for many decades. It's so hard to know what do to that will really change the direction.
Yes it is so painful that even though the consequences of "anticipatory obedience" are well known, not least though the events around the Nazi government, that many tend to still do the same probably out of fear of consequences for themselves as well as the pain of having to face up to what's going on and all this again in spite of the dedicated efforts of our selves and so many.
Maria and I have been quite grateful to have discovered and using the insights and meditations of Self-Compassion as developed by Kristin Neff and many others. As I listen to what she says, it is really a practical application of what we have said about the Christ Word, especially, You are accepted, the past is approved, the future is open. This is not about retreat into yourself, but empowering and supporting yourself and others. If this approach is new to you as it was to us, you can learn more at
(http://www.self-compassion.org)> > > www.self-compassion.org (http://www.self-compassion.org)
.
To get a view into the long term international anti-democratic strategies of the international political and economic elites, I highly recommend The Crisis of Democracy a research project of the TriLateral commission in the late 60's. The "crisis" for them was the rising expectation of people for a more democratic society and they outlined a strategy that you will easily recognize has been going on since the early 70's to shut it down. Reading it is like reading the battle plan of the powerful and privileged to keep the world safe for themselves. It is even available for free online on the Internet Archive
(https://ia801308.us.archive.org/23/items/TheCrisisOfDemocracy-TrilateralCommission-1975/crisis_of_democracy_text.pdf)> > > https://ia801308.us.archive.org/23/items/TheCrisisOfDemocracy-TrilateralComm...
On a contemporary note, we have become aware of the Atlas Network, a collaboration of anti-democratic organisations funded largely by fossil fuel billionaires, is also useful. Their strategy is to fund think-tanks around the world, such as the Cato Institute, Heartland Institute in the US and the Institute of Public Affairs in Australia. Their website claims to now have 500 affiliates in over 100 countries.
Adam Smith described these efforts over 200 years ago with a concise phrase in "The Wealth of Nations" , "Whenever these people get together, even for sport or amusement, the public is worse off. The talk is about how to reduce wages and raise prices."
Finally Maria I would like to thank everyone on this list for what you have done for peace and justice in the world, and catalysing awareness and action for so many, in our world, and we have all made a great difference against great odds.
Grace and Peace
Richard
On 10/02/2025 8:01 am,
(mailto:oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net)
wrote:
Send OE mailing list submissions to
(mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > > oe@lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
(http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net)> > > > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
(mailto:oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > > oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net)
You can reach the person managing the list at
(mailto:oe-owner@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > > oe-owner@lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe-owner@lists.wedgeblade.net)
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of OE digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby) 2. West condones genocide (Ken Fisher) 3. Re: Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" (RICHARD HOWIE) 4. Re: West condones genocide (Randy Williams)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 01:46:26 +0000 (UTC) From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby < (mailto:dvinasithamby@yahoo.com)
(mailto:dvinasithamby@yahoo.com)> > > > dvinasithamby@yahoo.com (mailto:dvinasithamby@yahoo.com)>
To: Colleague Dialogue < (mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net)
(mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > > dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net)>, Order
Ecumenical Community < (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)
(mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > > oe@lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net)>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" Message-ID: < (mailto:2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com)
(mailto:2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com)> > > > 2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com (mailto:2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com)>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
In his op-ed on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience", Masha Gessen presents ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Trump? as a looming threat. Some may see this article as timely and relevant but I see it as part of Western media?s continuing effort to keep Americans in their bubble. From my possibly recalcitrant point of view from the other side of the world, the Americans are no strangers to anticipatory obedience. Most of them have confronted ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Biden? without a cringe. After electing a warmonger as President who conspired with Netanyahu to make the US a partner in genocide, how much more trying would MAGA be? As long as Americans wail about Trump leading them without acknowledging what has been done in their name over the last four years, they will remain in their bubble while the world looks on with horror.?
On Sunday, 9 February 2025 at 07:31:33 am MYT, Ellie Stock via Dialogue < (mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net)
(mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > > dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net)> wrote:
Hi Folks,Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience". . .Ellie? (mailto:.Ellie?elliestock@aol.com)
(mailto:elliestock@aol.com)> > > > elliestock@aol.com (mailto:elliestock@aol.com)?
This op-ed in The NY Times calls on us not to obey in advance:?
(https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare)> > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
_______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list
(mailto:Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > > Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net)
(http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net)> > > > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net