This probably complicates rather than clarifies what you are asking . . . https://www.currentaffairs.org/2022/04/laurie-penny-on-the-sexual-revolution Jim Wiegel “We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “ Stephen Hawking
On Apr 23, 2022, at 9:21 AM, Karenbueno <karenbueno@aol.com> wrote:
The reprint of an article by Spong at the bottom raises the question of abortion in a way that counters the approval and legality of abortion. Look at it again and see how those of us who support abortion rights can justify this. Is it absolutely paradox?
Karen Bueno
-----Original Message----- From: James Wiegel via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>; oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Ellie Stock <elliestock@aol.com> Cc: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Sent: Thu, Apr 21, 2022 3:29 pm Subject: Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] 4/21/2022, Progressing Spirit: Brian D. McLaren: The Religious Question — and the Human Question; Spong revisited
Article below underlines our human identity crisis these days. Reminds me of something from the archives:
" We tried to get the established Church to see that it's not about peddling abstract dogma but about awakening men into life and significant engagement in the historical process so that life might truly experience the glory of' life through intensification of' consciousness and intensification of' engagement. The hope that is God 's hope belongs to humanity. The joy that is unspeakable is of the Lord. The peace that passeth understanding is yours-on loan from God, of' course. I hope it breaks through its provincialism of' defending the doctrine of' Church members into concern for all humanity which will save the Church and purify it." Joseph Wesley Mathews to Msgr. John Egan October 13, 1977
Jim Wiegel The unknown is what is. And to be frightened of it is what sends everybody scurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, all that. Unknown is what is. Accept that it's unknown, and it's plain sailing. John Lennon
401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com
On Thursday, April 21, 2022, 06:54:16 AM MST, Ellie Stock via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
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The Religious Question — and the Human Question
Essay by Brian D. McLaren April 21, 2022 Every day, it seems, I get another reminder about the struggles many of us are having with religious identity. Just yesterday, someone said, “I don’t identify as Christian anymore. It’s just not where I feel at home.” The day before that, a Jewish friend said, “While I still deeply appreciate my Jewish heritage, the truth is that I’m inter-spiritual. Every time I encounter a religious tradition in a deep way, I find something to love, and I can’t separate myself from it.” The day before that, I was in a group discussing the “spiritual but not religious” identifier. Several folks said that their problem wasn’t simply with any specific religion — Islam, Christianity, Judaism, or whatever. Their problem was with the whole idea of “organized religion” itself. In The Great Spiritual Migration (Convergent, 2016), I explored the term organized religion. Perhaps the problem, I suggested, wasn’t that religions are organized. After all, I don’t think anyone is saying, “I would really love my religion if it were just a little worse organized!” I don’t think it’s “disorganized religion” that people are longing for. I think the problem is that religions are organized (well, or poorly) for the wrong goals or objectives, and they are not well enough organized for the goals and objectives we need most. For example, major sectors of the Christian religion of which I am part are super well-organized to help people attend to the problem of original sin and how to achieve exemption from eternal conscious torment in hell. They are highly organized at protecting the interests of an all-male clergy (or almost all-male). They are highly organized to support the economic system from which they scavenge the crumbs of donations that fall under the table. They are highly organized to maintain their status as a socially respectable organization in society. The American mystic and sage Howard Thurman diagnosed this problem with his usual understated brilliance when he said (in his 1949 masterpiece Jesus and the Disinherited), “Too often the price exacted by society for security and respectability is that the Christian movement in its formal expression must be on the side of the strong against the weak.” If Jesus was right when he said, in his inaugural address (as found in Luke 4), that the Spirit of God’s agenda is to help the oppressed, the weak, the broken-hearted, those with (in Thurman’s words) their backs against the wall, then no wonder many people are struggling with their religious identity. Wherever sincere Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists, or Christians are sensitive to the Spirit (however they would express it), they want to organize their energies for the vulnerable, the outsider, the outcast, the outlier, the other, those with their backs against the wall. They find deep frustration when their local “house of religion” organizes them otherwise. Over the last couple years, I’ve been working on what is probably my most ambitious writing project, Do I Stay Christian? As the title suggests, it is a book about conflicted religious identity in the world’s largest, wealthiest, most powerful, and well-armed religion. The book naturally fell into three parts. First, I felt I should explore the No answer to the title’s question. So in Part 1, I tried to articulate the best reasons I could think of not to stay Christian. These ten chapters took shape: 1. Because Christianity Has Been Vicious to Its Mother (Anti-Semitism) 2. Because of Christianity’s Suppression of Dissent (Christian vs. Christian Violence) 3. Because of Christianity’s High Global Death Toll — and Life Toll (Crusader Colonialism) 4. Because of Christianity’s Loyal Company Men (Institutionalism) 5. Because of Christianity’s Real Master (Money) 6. Because of the White Christian Old Boys’ Network (White Patriarchy) 7. Because Christianity is Stuck (Toxic Theology) 8. Because Christianity is a Failed Religion (Lack of Transformation) 9. Because of Christianity’s Great Wall of Bias (Constricted Intellectualism) 10. Because Christianity is a Sinking, Shrinking Ship of Wrinkling People (Demographics) As I completed these chapters, I could imagine many people thinking, “Well, McLaren has finally laid his cards on the table. He is definitely not a Christian any more.” And frankly, I have to admit that as I wrote, I repeatedly wondered how much longer I could claim Christian faith, having faced so much evil in our past, so much harm in our present, and so much threat to our future. Any scientist knows you don’t give up on your data collection halfway through the experiment, any entrepreneur knows you don’t give up on your new venture as soon as you have your first cash flow crisis, and any writer knows you can’t stop writing when you have identified the problem. So I kept writing, and the ten chapters of Part 2 took shape giving reasons to say Yes to staying Christian. 1. Because Leaving Hurts Allies (and Helps Their Opponents) 2. Because leaving Defiantly and Staying Compliantly Are Not My Only Options 3. Because … Where Else Would I Go? 4. Because It Would Be a Shame to Leave a Religion in Its Infancy 5. Because of Our Legendary Founder 6. Because Innocence Is an Addiction and Solidarity is the Cure 7. Because I’m Human 8. Because Christianity is Changing (For the Worse and for the Better) 9. To Free God 10. Because of Fermi’s Paradox and the Great Filter. As I finished Part 2 of the book, three realizations hit me as never before. First, I realized that there are plenty of solid reasons for Christians to leave Christianity, just as there are plenty of powerful reasons to stay Christian. Whatever the theoretical reasons we might offer for or against staying, practically speaking, some people are just too wounded by Christianity to be able to stay, and some people are too bonded to Christianity to be able to leave. That led to a second realization. For Christian communities to survive without repeating the problems addressed in Part 1 of the book, they need to boldly face their deep problems. But that’s not easy. Often, the only thing that gives them the courage to do so is watching their sons and daughters, friends and neighbors, teachers and students walking out the door. In this way, both those who stay and those who leave can end up contributing to the needed outcome. Third, I realized that the question of Christian identity is not the ultimate question. Deeper and broader is the question of human identity. What kind of humans do we want to be, whether we label ourselves Christian or something else? How can we be the kinds of people — Christian or not — who do not perpetuate the significant problems we see in Christianity today, and across our first twenty centuries as a religious community? That How? question framed the third part of the book. As I wrote it, I realized that every single human identity I can think of is facing an identity crisis that parallels the identity crisis we face as holders of religious identity. For example, democracy seemed to be on the march over tyranny, but over the last few decades, many democracies have slid back into autocracy, and even the democracy I inhabit in the USA has lost the innocence we once knew as “peaceful transition of power.” Or consider capitalism. If the Twentieth Century posed the question, “Will capitalism prevail over communism?”, the Twenty-First Century raises the question, “Will capitalism preside over our self-destruction?” In other words, the world’s most successful and prosperous economic identity is now the greatest threat to our future, because it produces comfort and profit for the privileged at the expense of the climate, air, water, soil, and living ecosystems upon which we all — including the exploited or abandoned poor — depend. Or consider reason, or rationalism. Catholic philosopher Jack Caputo once defined postmodernism as getting enlightened about the Enlightenment. Over the last several decades we have begun to realize that we aren’t nearly as rational or enlightened as we thought. Who of us in the US can trust our Supreme Court, that supposed palace of reasonable objectivity? Every few months this supposed sanctuary of objective rationality shows the world how highly vulnerable it is to partisan folly. So you can see how for me, the question of “Do I stay Christian?” gradually morphed into another question: how do we become more fully, truly, and beautifully human? And that is the question around which Christianity and other religions could, if they so choose, organize themselves to address. The answer would not come in words alone, however. The answer would come in actual ways of living, in actual ways of being human. And central to those ways of being human, I imagine, would be the humility and curiosity to learn from one another and share with one another, so that we could contribute together from within each tradition to the common good of all. Whatever we call ourselves, that human question of human identity is the one we must answer together, if we are to survive. ~ Brian D. McLaren
Read online here
About the Author Brian D. McLaren is an author, speaker, activist, and public theologian. A former college English teacher and pastor, he is an Auburn Senior Fellow and a leader in the Convergence Network, through which he is developing an innovative training/mentoring program for pastors, church planters, and lay leaders called Convergence Leadership Project. He works closely with the Center for Progressive Renewal/Convergence, the Wild Goose Festival and the Fair Food Program‘s Faith Working Group. His most recent book is Faith After Doubt. He is the author of the illustrated children’s book (for all ages) called Cory and the Seventh Story, The Great Spiritual Migration, We Make the Road by Walking, and Why Did Jesus, Moses, the Buddha, and Mohammed Cross the Road? Brian's next book, Do I Stay Christian?, will be available May 24, 2022 (https://read.macmillan.com/lp/do-i-stay-christian/). He is a popular conference speaker, a frequent guest lecturer for denominational and ecumenical leadership gatherings, has written for or contributed interviews to many periodicals, including Leadership, Sojourners, Tikkun, Worship Leader, and Conversations, and is a frequent guest on television, radio, and news media programs. Question & Answer
Q: By Thomas
I find it so confusing trying to understand not only racism, but bias against any human who is considered "different". Elitism, the belief that I am better than you, continues with frightening repercussions. Do you see a world/time when that will end - what will it take?
A: By Toni Anne Reynold
Dear Thomas,
I’ve heard the basis for prejudice explained as a fear reflex, an attempt for people to protect themselves from the unknown that strangers seem to embody. It feels like a reasonable sociological, and psychological reason for the existence of bias. And yet, I think your question is about the more nuanced workings of systemic racism, capitalism, etc., that seem to function at high speed efficiency.
In my opinion, the work of creating a world free of bias starts with examining yourself. I mean really truly examining and reexamining yourself; changing your environment to support the habits you wish to nourish - truly creating a world in, and immediately outside of yourself that supports the racist/bias free world you desire. In my own personal experience, the work of undoing racism within myself has needed to be a constant, daily practice. Every day I’m fed images or recycled stories and symbols that keep the framework of racism active and well. We all are fed these images, we hear the recycled narratives in news stories, we have the thoughts arise without awareness when we pass by someone in the grocery store. The attack is consistent, so our efforts to mitigate it have to be just as consistent.
The work of undoing racism within myself requires that I use my spiritual life, mental health resources, the medicine of community, and other tools, to keep from being swallowed up by this ill you ask about. Honestly, I don’t think most people are doing this type of active work to uproot the racism that we have been and continue to be force fed.
For most folks, racism is the burning of crosses, or the use certain old timey words, the most egregious acts. The danger with this limited view is that it facilitates denial. The more you distance yourself from the potential to behave in biased/racist ways, the easier it gets for the force-fed messages to take root in your shadow and start spilling out in moments when you least expect it. Racism is not just “that thing that those people do, but not something I am capable of.” Each of us has the capacity to employ, to keep alive, these monstrous things. Accepting that fact, I think, is the surest way to hampering the success of these programs.
If we are to see a world free of, or at the very least with a milder version of, racism, eradicating this denial inside of ourselves feels like step one in a multi-step process. I don’t know all that it might take, but I do think starting with ourselves is the most radical step.
Yours on the road to Liberation, ~ Toni Anne Reynolds
Read and share online here
About the Author Minister Toni Anne Reynolds is committed to singing flesh onto the bones of the Christian tradition by incorporating recently found texts of the ancient world into liturgy, sermons, and poetry. Toni’s Christianity forms a holy trinity with the psychological medicine of Tibetan Buddhism and the eternal Life found in Yoruba traditions. Balanced in an eclectic faith and focused in theology, Toni’s ministry offers a unique perspective on life, theology, and spirituality. Please continue to send us your feedback… we are listening. We aim to give voice to many different perspectives that are relevant and inspiring along this spiritually progressing path. We are not here to tell you what to believe or how to act. We are here to support your journey, to share and learn together. Thank you for being a part of this community - join us on Facebook!
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Don't miss the next Episode of PC.org's Executive Directors Mark and Caleb on: The Moonshine Jesus Show - every Monday at 4:30pm Eastern Time – watch live on Facebook,, YouTube, Twitter, Podme Bishop John Shelby Spong Revisited
A Meditation on the Meaning of a Brief Life
Essay by Bishop John Shelby Spong May 10, 2012 They were a very happy young couple. Both the wife and the husband were successful professionally. They had worked hard to achieve this success, postponing much of what young adults think of as fun in order to pursue their goals. They were in their early thirties when they met, fell in love and decided to get married. Their marriage was an occasion of great joy for themselves and for both of their families. The wedding brought together customs old and new, uniting two distinct cultural histories into one life-giving and flowing stream. They settled into their new home and began to build their own traditions.
They wanted a family and after a year or so were delighted to learn that they were expecting a baby. Both families rejoiced in this news and it seemed that their happiness broke any boundaries that they had known before. Inspired by their joy they seemed to soar through the days. A month or so later to their amazement and heightened pleasure, they learned that they were expecting twins. With the realization that they had started their family a little bit later than usual, they were overjoyed. When all of their friends warned them about sleepless nights, double barreled diapers and no time for themselves, it fazed them not one bit so ecstatic was their anticipation.
All went well for about five months and then complications arose. The young mother began to dilate prematurely and threatened to go into labor. The lives of these babies were barely on the edge of viability outside the womb. Modern medicine that is so amazing sprang into action. The expectant mother was taken to the hospital and placed under twenty-four hour observation. If necessary, she would spend the rest of her pregnancy in the hospital. Every day she got through in that setting without further complications was a day that made the lives of these twins more hopeful.
Two weeks later, however, the mother’s body was attacked by e coli bacteria while she was in the hospital. The medical team began to treat this infection with the massive drugs at their disposal, but it soon became clear that a caesarian-section would be required to save the babies from both the virus and the drugs. The c-section was performed. Only one of the twins made it through that transition. The boy, Julian Edward was the name they had chosen for him, lived but a moment. The girl, Chloe Emma was her name, was on the borderline, but she seemed to have that tiny edge that pushed her to the side of life. She is still living and the hopes and expectations are that after time in the neonatal unit of this hospital, she will go home to her parents vital and healthy. The mother also finally passed the crisis point and she too will recover fully, but the emotional price that she and her husband were called on to pay was very high. It was a price that their extended families also had to pay. No one who ever loves another is immune to the pain to which that love makes us vulnerable. As this situation unfolded, I learned yet again something of the mystery of life as well as something of its terror.
If someone had told this young couple a year ago that they would be the parents of a precious and happy baby girl, they would have been thrilled. They would have seen that as the fulfillment of their dreams. Now, however, their joy has been compromised by grief. Joy at the birth and life of their daughter, grief at the death of their son, these conflicting emotions – feelings both bitter and sweet – engulfed them simultaneously. Questions about life’s strange twists raged in their minds as well as in the minds of those of us who love them. The necessity of absorbing pain over which one has no control was real, hopes that ran so high were dashed so cruelly and a haunting wonder surrounded them. They needed to mourn their lost boy, but what is the form that their proper grief can take? Can one ascribe purpose to a life that lived so very briefly? Is there any redemptive meaning that can be attributed to the death of a premature baby?
In generations past, comfort came through the suggestion that the will of God must in some way have been served by this tragedy. The religious assumptions of that age were clear. God had to be in control of this world. No tragedy would have occurred without purpose or if God had not somehow willed it. God must have a plan, we said, into which this little lad fitted. If life were ruled by nothing other than chance or blind fate, then the anxieties we would have to face in the task of living would simply be too difficult and too debilitating for us to manage emotionally. Those comforting convictions of an earlier time, however, have not endured. We have been forced to note time after time that history is replete with illustrations that reveal that God is apparently not in charge, for things do not always turn out well and good does not always prevail. Elie Wiesel came to that conclusion when he lived through and survived the Holocaust, being the only member of his family to do so. The poor of the city of New Orleans came to that conclusion when they had to endure the fury of Hurricane Katrina. The people of Haiti came to that conclusion when the tectonic plates beneath the island of Hispaniola shifted, creating an earthquake in which over 200,000 people perished. Trayvon Martin’s family had to come to that conclusion as he became yet another victim of an all too familiar pattern of a deep-seated and blind racism.
All of us face this same reality every time disease strikes; every time an innocent child dies or is killed; every time irrational anger on someone else’s part ends the life of another, whose only fault was to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. No one can deny life’s dark and painful side. Nor can we today cover it over with the simple and pious rhetoric of the past. Our questions are rooted in life not in the religious convictions of the previous era.
How are we to observe or honor a life that only lives for a moment? Should grieving parents and grandparents note the reality of that life by giving that baby a name? Should a memorial or funeral service be planned to honor the tiny life that was there? Would that make life easier for the parents, the grandparents or even for the way they will all relate to the surviving daughter? Would those gestures be anything more than an act of sentimental and hopeful delusion?
This particular experience caused me to think about these questions and to come to these conclusions. I am convinced that all life, no matter how brief, is of value. I do not want to spend my time trying to explain why bad things happen to good people or by trying to assess guilt and attempting to find someone or something to blame for life’s tragedies. I have no interest in turning to yesterday’s religious certainty and seeking comfort by assigning this tragedy to the “enigmatic will of God.”
Instead I find that I yearn to engage this family in a new kind of discussion by asking them to think with me about a new set of questions. How was your life touched by this child who did not make it? Did anticipating this baby’s birth expand your consciousness and enhance your life? Did it increase in you a capacity to love and to know the joy of anticipation? Was there any role this now-deceased infant played in strengthening the love that holds a marriage together? Did this infant boy serve to deepen the bonds of affection that create the extended family? Is it possible that the survival of the infant girl was made possible by the death of the infant boy? Did he absorb the e coli bacteria and thus protect his twin sister from the fate that he experienced? Was the noblest of all human experiences operating here, the principle of sacrifice: one dies so that another might live? If any of these questions can be answered with a “yes” then I think we should call this boy by the name his parents had chosen for him, to remember him, to give thanks for him and to acknowledge that, while his time on this earth was short, it was not insignificant. This is also why I believe that we should mark the passing of this brief life with some kind of liturgical event in which he is remembered, his remaining effects placed into the ground or in some appropriate place with care, ceremony and sensitivity. He did live. He affected positively those who still live. He made a contribution to life that needs to be acknowledged and for which thanksgiving needs to be expressed.
Life at any level is a miracle. Only those who are able to love and to love self-consciously and deeply can feel the trauma of loss, of separation. So anyone who participates in life, if only for a moment, that one still lives, still contributes and still needs to be acknowledged. Every life no matter how he or she lives is still an expression of the Source of Life. Every life is, therefore, holy because the Source of Life is holy. It is that holiness that we acknowledge when we come together in grief and with heavy hearts to commit one, who lived only momentarily, to the Source of life, which he surely embodied. So, yes, let us treat this tiny life as we treat every life. Let us hear in worship the words, “dust thou art and to dust thou shalt return.” Let us give thanks for the meaning that this life has brought and commend this life to the Source of Life. It is our self-consciousness that allows us to be grateful, to commune with and even to worship, that which makes us alive even if for but a moment. ~ John Shelby Spong Announcements
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