David, thanks for sharing these thoughts. I'm a fan of Joanna Macy and Thomas Berry. Good luck with your study. Randy
On Jun 22, 2017, at 9:51 PM, David Rebstock via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
I am currently leading a book study in my church Active Hope: How to face the mess We're in without Going Crazy by Joanna Macy and Chris Johnston. It trys to guide readers on a journey of gratitude, grief, interconnection, and, ultimately transformation. In the ninth chapter entitled Catching an Inspiring Vision they have a section on The Dream of the Earth and quote Thomas Berry. They also say "When we think of ourselves as interconnected parts of life, just as we may feel the Earth crying within us, perhaps we can experience the Earth dreaming within us too. Within the framework of systems thinking and the Ecological self, this makes perfect sense. If self is thought of as a stream of consciousness with many currents, then inspired dreams and visionary moments are simply times of increased connectedness with the deeper flows of our collective identity" Every day I reflect on my self being a part of the collective identity of the Order David Rebstock
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 3:51 PM, John C via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Berry and Buber, two great ones for sure.
John Cock
From: OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> on behalf of William Salmon via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Reply-To: B&B Salmon <wsalmon@cox.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Date: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 at 4:44 PM To: Margaret Aiseayew <aiseayew@netins.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: More on The Order
Margaret--
Two items--
1. A Salida Colorado friend asked that we study Buber's book, "I and Thou." We discovered that the book is almost impossible to read because of Buber's worldview (pre-Post Modern and years and years ahead of his time) and cultural bias (Buber is a Jew and raised by his Hasidic father). Spark Notes are a blessing. I have a rough chart of the last translation of "I and Thou" from the German by Walter Kaufmann--should anybody be interested.
2. In the spirit of "what the hell," please explain to me the change in your name to an obvious (or maybe not-so-obvious) play on the word "Aiseayew." If I've overstepped my bounds, please ignore this request.
Inner Peace,
Bill Salmon
----- Original Message -----
From: Margaret Aiseayew via OE
To: 'Randy Williams'
Cc: 'Order Ecumenical Community'
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: More on The Order
Sorry to have misled you. “Dream of the Earth” is Thomas Berry. We think we can change things by dreaming about them. Berry makes it clear that we must listen to the earth, a living, breathing, dreaming organism in its own right.
Both Berry and Buber are on my list of saints.
Apologies again for misleading you, Margaret
From: Randy Williams [mailto:randycw1938@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 8:55 AM To: Margaret Aiseayew Cc: Order Ecumenical Community; James Wiegel Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: More on The Order
Margaret,
Buber has come to be one of my most valued saints, but I don't think I've read this piece by him. Could you summarize his point regarding "of" rather than "about."
Thanks.
Randy
On Jun 21, 2017, at 8:39 AM, Margaret Aiseayew <aiseayew@netins.net> wrote:
I would encourage people to consider rereading “Dream of the Earth” very carefully, which represents Buber’s perspective clearly. It was not titled ‘dream about the earth.’
Margaret
From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Randy Williams via OE Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 8:19 AM To: James Wiegel; Order Ecumenical Community Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: More on The Order
The reference to Kazantzakis, Boulding and Hesse are helpful reminders that the crimson line, invisible college, league, etc. has been, is, and ever shall be. I believe the task does not change but the metaphors that hold it do. For example, these days I am less informed and inspired by the image of "upagainstness" and more informed and motivated by Buber's (I paraphrase) "participating in what wants to emerge." The latter is a reminder for me that this is not something we initiated but something ongoing that we are called to participate in. Visioning then becomes, not the imposition of my fondest hopes and dreams on the future, but my understanding of what it is that wants to emerge that I/we are called to be part of.
Randy
On Jun 21, 2017, at 7:31 AM, James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Does Kazantzakis in Saviors of God, and Boulding's Invisible College also apply? Been reading, charting Saviors, looking at the whole Bultmann paper, Desmond Avery's chapter on God from Beyond Power, also Niebuhr's three responsibilities of the church for society.
What are we finally upagainst these days? What is our responsibility? What wisdom on all this do we have to share with the living, the dead, the unborn, not to mention "kids" now in their 40's?
Jim Wiegel
401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353
Tel. 011-623-936-8671 or 011-623-363-3277
jfwiegel@yahoo.com
www.partnersinparticipation.com
This Is Just To Say
BY WILLIAM CARLOS WILLIAMS
I have eaten
the plums
that were in
the icebox
and which
you were probably
saving
for breakfast
Forgive me
they were delicious
so sweet
and so cold
On Jun 19, 2017, at 19:23, William Salmon via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Thanks John for clarifying what we were and what we are now. Once you are on the "Journey to the East" (Hesse--thank you very much!), there is no going back or getting off. Do you want to know what the current manifestation of The Order looks like then look in the mirror. Also, there is a growing panoply of Order Saints cheering us on; among them is a little old white-haired man with a stutter--we can find him in Room E.
Bill Salmon
----- Original Message -----
From: Rod Rippel via OE
To: John Epps ; Order Ecumenical Community ; Order Ecumenical Community
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] The Order and Oaxtapec
Thanks John, For reminding us that The Order is a Dynamic that takes on many forms in ways unnoticed and catalytic in society.
Rod Rippel
From: John Epps via OE
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 2:57 PM
To: Order Ecumenical Community
Subject: [Oe List ...] The Order and Oaxtapec
It has long been claimed that at the Oaxtapec gathering, the Order was called out of being. That assertion has long troubled me, and it seems time to clear the air.
IMHO, the statement is both sociologically and theologically inaccurate. A more accurate formulation of what happened in Mexico was that we went from a structured to a dispersed form. Something was definitely dissolved at Oaxtapec, but it was not the Order, only a particular form of the Order.
On the sociological side, there is still a lively “we” that once went under the name “Order Ecumenical.” This list-serve and the archives workshops represent some manifestations, but more significant are the personal collegial relationships that persist despite great demographic, cultural, and geographic differences. “We” continue to communicate and to celebrate the life milestones of each other.
“We” continue to engage in the mission of catalyzing and caring for those who care – in multiple sectors and with far greater impact than a single organization could have managed. Some examples include the ToP Network, the IAF, ICA community development work in India, Nepal, Australia, and South America, and environmental preservation efforts in the USA. “We” have published a good number of books making insights available to a wide audience. Colleagues could fill out the list.
Theologically, the Order is a historical dynamic that we’ve been privileged to participate in. It is not something we can disband, even if we wanted to. Just as Niebuhr described the Church as the “sensitive and responsive ones…” that takes many forms, so also is the Order composed of those awakened and catalytic ones who care for those who care. The notion that some of us could dissolve that dynamic confuses the form from the content (the baby from the bathwater to use a less abstract metaphor). I’ve come (reluctantly) to see that we were led to dissolve a particular structure so that the historical dynamic might continue in an enhanced fashion.
Why does this matter? Is it simply a verbal difference having little to do with anything except the neurosis of an old theologian?
It matters because thinking that there is no longer an Order prevents us from wrestling with pertinent questions: How can we remain in touch with the Profound Mystery? How can we continue to access our common insights? What rites and celebrations are appropriate to a dispersed body? How can we account to each other and support each other? How can we stay on the religious and secular edge? What (if any) forms are appropriate for the global and diverse participants in this historical dynamic? In a time when hatred and fear of differences is so rampant, what new experiments might make a difference? What might we learn from Journey to the East?
Collegial comments, clarifications, corrections, and additions are most welcome.
Thanks for reading this.
John Epps
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