Meaty discussion which has been very good. Are Schlesingers part of the Presbyterian mission? I have just received a mailing for Presbyterian World Mission Matching Gift Challenge with extended matching time. We want to send our little bit to Chenoa’s support. Is that through Pres World Mission? Could you send me again Chenoa’s # that must be on the check? I know you sent it to me recently, but my desk is such a disaster, that everything I pick up needs something done with it. I’m afraid I will not get to it before being out of pocket for the next 10 days as I keep Jono and Kelley’s 4 children while they are out of the country. They don’t live far, but I know my mind will be on other things this coming week, even when I get back home. Lynda From: OE List <OE@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net>> Reply-To: Carl & Ellie Stock <Elliestock@aol.com<mailto:Elliestock@aol.com>>, OE List <OE@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net>> Date: Tuesday, April 18, 2017 at 10:32 AM To: "geowanda1@me.com<mailto:geowanda1@me.com>" <geowanda1@me.com<mailto:geowanda1@me.com>>, ICA Dialogue List <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>>, OE List <OE@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net>> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Easter Reflections Thanks for sharing the witness of St Andres and Jim Rigby. Also, just received a pictoral and prose report of Project Vida from the Schlesingers--another resurrection community! Ellie elliestock@aol.com<mailto:elliestock@aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: George Holcombe via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>> To: ICA/OE List Serves <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>>; ICA/OE List Serves <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>> Sent: Tue, Apr 18, 2017 9:15 am Subject: Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] Easter Reflections One of my hopes was that we would continue to push to the bottom HDP in every poor village around the world and the NRM into all the religious forms. I noticed in John Cock’s Journey Reflections today reference to Jim Rigby. He’s the Presbyterian minister in our neighborhood who I referenced his Easter service in an earlier post. He and his church, St. Andrews, is an amazing example of the new forms and by the way graduated from the same seminary as Joe Slicker. Jim is both mystic and activist. I don’t know of an local issue he doesn’t protest or testify for. He lives in the public. HIs church, a sanctuary one, houses and supports an immigrant family threatened with deportation, they feed the local homeless, has an organic garden done by members, a vital eco committee that pushes those issues far and wide, pushes the LBGTQI interests and has gays on his staff. They flew a huge banner on their lawn supporting Muslims and have muslims visitors frequently. St. Andrews is the only church I know that has the leading Atheist in Austin as a member. The pews on Sunday morning are filled with activists and his sermons break through the old Western Christian myths to a universal faith in action. He holds a conversation group on Tuesdays that allows participants to tie their experience to the deeps. It is a dynamic congregation. Jim has been regularly put on trial by his denomination to be defrocked, but less regularly now. Also, he is a former rock musician, plays excellent guitar and each Sunday he and members conducts a puppet show for the kids during service explaining matters of faith they can participate in and they do. All this in a relatively small set of buildings. George Holcombe geowanda1@me.com<mailto:geowanda1@me.com> "Whatever the problem, community is the answer. There is no power greater than a community discovering what it cares about." Margaret Wheatley On Apr 18, 2017, at 12:12 AM, Len Hockley via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote: Does everyone know the story of how we got preludes and postludes in our services? It goes something like: In the reformation the Calvinists and others decided that there would be no music in the service but that was the last straw for many and so added music before and after. Len On 4/17/2017 4:31 PM, Susan Fertig via OE wrote: Worship music is such an interesting part of worship. “What Child is This” was set to the music for “Greensleeves,” which was a song about a prostitute. For many years churches refused to allow organ music, considering it profane. Now organ music is standard, but drums are still controversial in some congregations. In my church, we have a very traditional Rite I Eucharist at 8 am, a blended (mostly traditional) Service at 9 am, and a contemporary Service at 11 am. The 8 am Service is small (about 100 people); the 9 am and 11 am each draw about 1,000 people on a normal Sunday. On Christmas and Easter we add a Service to accommodate the “Chreasters” who only come on those special days. I must admit that unconventional worship music was one of the powerful draws for me in the Spirit Movement—my heart leapt and danced and I was entranced. Then somewhere along the way, in mainstream worship Services, I began to feel that contemporary “Praise Music” was sort of “over the top” and emotionally manipulative, or, as a Baptist friend put it, “spirit candy.” I had to be wooed back to it over time (2 Samuel helped as I realized that David himself was “over the top” in worship and dancing). Now one of my favorite contemporary hymns is by the group Hillsong: “I Surrender<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcnfT4arZtI>” (it lifts my heart to renewed commitment every time I hear it). In terms of musical grandeur that seems inconsistent with the NT lifestyle and “more appropriate to royalty than to us,” as you put it, I don’t really have any difficulty with that—it seems only natural that we would offer the best of the artistry available to us for worship, the best of our creativity for the Creator. Susan Susan Fertig-Dykes (personal email account) And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought . Isaiah 58:11 Protect against email address harvesting: Use "BCC" when sending to multiple addresses; delete senders’ E-Mail addresses when forwarding. NOTE: I won’t be offended if you ask me to remove you from my emails. From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of John Epps via OE Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 5:50 PM To: Thomas Morrison <2tjmorrison@gmail.com><mailto:2tjmorrison@gmail.com>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net><mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Easter Reflections Easter Reflection #2: I’ve never heard anything like it. The ordinary mode of beginning the Sunday worship service at Montview Presbyterian Church is the sound of chimes after which the congregation is invited to quietly make the transition from getting there to being there. This Sunday, being Easter, the sanctuary was overflowing with people enthusiastically greeting each other with churchy cordiality and requests from the front to move closer together in the pews to accommodate more people. I was sitting quietly waiting for the chimes, hoping to be able to hear them over the din, and looking forward to a few moments of silence to absorb the beauty of the surroundings. Suddenly from the choir loft came a deafening crash of cymbals followed by a brass and organ fanfare that filled the gothic architecture with ear-splitting wonder that lasted a full 5 minutes. After the final grand chord, the congregation was speechless. The impact was powerful and profound, setting the tone for something grand about to happen. For me, if nothing else occurred during the service, the Easter wonder had happened. The piece was Grand Choeur Dialogue by Eugene Gigout; you can find it at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rufxt80iVA0 But that was only the first musical treat. The brass and organ and choir continued their gift of awe-producing sounds during the hymns, anthem, and offertory anthem. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZtIRp3Vglw> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZtIRp3Vglw was the anthem. By the time we left, I was done in, having experienced something of a resurrection. Since then, I’ve been wrestling with the thought that such grandeur was not at all like the lifestyle portrayed in the New Testament. Though it clearly portrays the significance of the Easter event for Christians, the music and setting seemed more appropriate to royalty than to us. Recent Public TV shows featuring Henry VIII picture a setting in which this type of music would have been right at home. Maybe the point is that awe happens in the midst of the ordinary as surprises sometime break through that are not of our doing. If, as I have contended elsewhere, surprises are where we are confronted by Mystery, that certainly happened at the Denver Montview Presbyterian Church (a former Galaxy church once co-pastored by Ken Barley) on Easter Sunday, 2017. On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 1:26 PM, Thomas Morrison via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote: Hi everyone, Adding to the discussion . . . We in the USA generally define reality as having four dimensions: length, width, height and time. It is a choice we have made, and is nicely measureable with our existing instruments and chosen senses. Mathematically we could have five, six, whatever number of dimensions we would want to explore. As far as our senses go, there are others beyond the usual USA list. I bump into this as a psychiatric therapist from time to time. Again, I choose to pay attention to the experiences or not, depending on how important it is to the client (or me--grin). Tom Morrison On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Jack Gilles via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote: Susan, Happy Easter to you as well! I was wondering how you would describe the dimension you speak of? I happen to agree with you, but I use the term Void, which is the eternal, existing along side the time/space experience. The Other World in the midst of this world. Grace & Peace, Jack On Apr 16, 2017, at 12:14, Susan Fertig via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote: Isn’t your hip out of socket yet, James? All that wrestling with the Archangel… Surrender and rejoice, friend. The Resurrection is real, not a metaphor. Neither is it a 3-tiered universe; just another dimension altogether. Susan Susan Fertig-Dykes (personal email account) And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought . Isaiah 58:11 Protect against email address harvesting: Use "BCC" when sending to multiple addresses; delete senders’ E-Mail addresses when forwarding. NOTE: I won’t be offended if you ask me to remove you from my emails. From: OE [<mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net>mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net?>] On Behalf Of James Wiegel via OE Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2017 12:24 PM To: Mary Kurian DSouza <<mailto:marykdsouza@gmail.com>marykdsouza@gmail.com<mailto:marykdsouza@gmail.com>>; Order Ecumenical Community <<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>oe@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Easter Reflections Thank you for the reflections and the reminiscences. I must admit I am wrestling some this week and still at Easter morn. We get netflix dvds sent to us and last night, as we paused from getting ready for the potluck we are hosting, we watched the dvd we got in the mail. Martin Scorceses SILENCE, about Jesuit priests on mission in Japan in the 1600's. Lots of persecutions, apostasy as well. All this for the metaphor of death and rebirth? Hmmmm. I read over the christ lecture transcribed in Bending History as well as the bits of the gospels. Deepened the wrestling. All complicated by a 10 year old grandson who has decided to be baptized today. Have to stop here and go hide easter eggs . . . Jim Wiegel 401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353 Tel. 011-623-936-8671<tel:011-623-936-8671> or 011-623-363-3277<tel:011-623-363-3277> <mailto:marilyn.oyler@gmail.com>jfwiegel@yahoo.com<mailto:jfwiegel@yahoo.com> <http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/>www.partnersinparticipation.com<http://www.partnersinparticipation.com> "We are no longer living in an era of change. We are living in a change of era." Francis Upcoming public course opportunities click here <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=10>http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=10 For online registration go to <http://www.top-training.net/> http://www.top-training.net The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, 1-4 pm, starting again on Sept 5th at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003<https://www.google.com/maps/place/648+N+5th+Ave/@33.456329,-112.080545,16z/data=%214m2%213m1%211s0x872b123a5312512d:0x93c9f71171108956?hl=> AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses On Apr 15, 2017, at 19:52, Mary Kurian DSouza via OE <<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>oe@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote: Nancy What a lovely window of remembrance to look through Thank you for sharing. Mary Sent from my iPhone On 16-Apr-2017, at 6:36 AM, Nancy Trask via OE <<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>oe@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote: I vividly remember Easter mornings in the OKC RH with Bill & Marianna Bailey. First of all, Bill Bailey's resonating wake-up accompanied by the gong. Barb Garrison & I played the Hallelujah Chorus on the baby grand. Breakfast included a huge slab of salmon. Oh my goodness -- If life had caused you to need some patching up, the best prescription would be 4 years in the OKC RH with Bill & Marianna. Thank you for those experiences, Marianna! All the best, Nancy Trask ----- Original Message ----- From: Marianna Bailey via OE <<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>oe@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> To: Frank Knutson <<mailto:f.knutson@earthlink.net>f.knutson@earthlink.net<mailto:f.knutson@earthlink.net>>, Order Ecumenical Community <<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>oe@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> Sent: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 19:37:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Easter Reflections I have been reminiscing... Does anyone remember Easter Sunday in the Religious House? A very special day for the "wake up" ritual. Marianna Sent from my iPhone On Apr 15, 2017, at 4:00 PM, Frank Knutson via OE <<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>oe@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote: Thank’s John, for the reminder. “And once the storm is over you won’t remember how you made it through, how you managed to survive. You won’t even be sure, in fact, whether the storm is really over. But one thing is certain. When you come out of the storm you won’t be the same person who walked in. That’s what this storm’s all about” ~Haruki Murakami <VIKING copy.jpeg>❤ Frank On Apr 15, 2017, at 10:19 AM, John Epps via OE <<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>oe@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote: Coming to terms with the meaning of the Easter story for us is difficult since times and world-views have changed. We find it difficult even to grasp what it meant for those who first told it, much less for us. Yet we are compelled to try by Paul’s admonition, “If Christ is not raised, then our faith is in vain.” (I Cor. 15:14) One factor in the story must be recognized: this is a tale of a bodily resurrection, not a “spiritual” one. The risen one takes pains to force people to touch his wounds and so dispel the notion of an ectoplasmic appearance. Whatever the implications, they are physical, this worldly. The second factor is that stories of dying and rising gods (or superheroes) were widespread throughout the Ancient Near East and ancient Greece. So what unique implications can we draw from the story that are important today? Another way to ask it is “Where today do we experience death and resurrection?” Both occur at the individual, natural, and corporate levels. A word about each: Lately I have “died” when the classes I have taught for 15 years were cancelled; I was “raised” when the University called on me for 3 new classes. The slow and painful death of a dear aunt was followed by a celebration honoring her life that brought back the wonder of her artistry and love. These may seem trivial examples but dramatize the dynamics in the story: Death/Resurrection happens to us all. In nature, “Resurrection” has long been a metaphor for the return of plant life in the Spring, at least in the Northern hemisphere. And certainly, the emergence of leaves on barren trees, of green in brown fields, and flowers from “dead” plants seem quite miraculous. At the corporate level, the death and dying dynamic seems much more obvious that does resurrection. Many of our hopes and dreams died with the November election. The horrors and complexity of the Middle East conflicts and the appearance of global warming both represent a death to life as we have known it. What resurrection will look like remains to be seen. Numerous efforts taken for environmental protection certainly mark an awakening to the need for change, but are faint heralds of a resurrected life. Numerous conferences aimed at achieving some sort of resolution of Middle East conflicts so far remain fruitless. As the story goes, it’s God who does the raising, not us. And when it occurs, it’s far beyond our expectations. As I have said elsewhere, “Humankind has unimaginable capacities to screw things up; yet Mystery generates unaccountable wonders out of our messes.” (Theology of Surprise, p. 39) Our current situation brings to mind a sermon that we heard in the Philippines during the last days of Marcos. It was entitled “It feels like Friday, but Sunday is A-Coming!” Whether we’re enmeshed in the death or the resurrection part of the dynamic, both are operative. That’s what Easter celebrates. _______________________________________________ OE mailing list <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net>OE@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net>http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net>OE@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net>http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net>OE@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net>http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net>OE@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net>http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net>OE@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net>http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net>http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net