Re: [Dialogue] 2 questions about the other world in the midst of this world
SO . . .looks like no one has a recording of "The Mys'try is Everywhere" Would anyone be willing to SING it on zoom while I record? SO . . . 2 people responded that we did indeed encounter / (re) discover /map the other world (the phenomena of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquility) in the midst of "this world". ANYONE ELSE?? As to Bud's question, see below some interweaving. <rev.bud@mac.com> wrote: Let me be clearer, if I can, of what I’m asking, which is in reference to Jim Wiegel’s question: "Did we actually encounter/(re)discover the other world in the midst of this world (the realities of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquillity as present in our lives and world) or did we just say that?” I’m aware of a lot concerning the beginnings of the Order. Jack Lewis hiring Joe Matthews to be an extraordinary lecturer for the Christian Faith and Life Community in Austin. The development of RSI around a Christian existentialism based on Bultmann, Tillich, and Bonhoeffer in the early 1950s. I think you should include H. Richard Niebuhr . . . | | | | | | | | | | | 24 Joe Slicker Mathews Went Down to be with Jack Lewis | | | I’m aware of what we may call a ’turn to the church’ by part of the CFLC staff with part of them going off to Chicago in Easter 1962 to create E.I. I’m aware of the ’turn to the world’ in the 1970s. In so doing they decided to emphasize Cultural Studies over Religious Studies. | | | | | | | | | | | 41 Joe Slicker Let Me Tell You a Little About Evanston | | | | | | | | | | | | | | 42 Joe Slicker Who Went Up from Austin in that Truck | | | | | | | | | | | | | | 31 Joe Slicker In '62 We Got Run out of Austin | | | This was not a discontinuation of dependence upon an existentialist theology. Though the Order shunned Gene Marshall, he did not shun the thought of Bultmann, Tillich, and Bonhoeffer. I reference his writings where he develops their thought (https://www.realisticliving.org/koob/GreatParagraphs/) It is even clearer his continued reliance on existentialism in his lecture on Consciousness:(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2d5zZB1e5A&t=403s) But I lost contact with the Order and its thought basis after the ’turn to the world'. Was there further theological reflection beyond existentialism? If so, what form did it take? I don't really know enough theology or philosophy in a formal or academic sense to answer your question. Here are some possibilities.What about this little talk about "The Barefoot Jesus" | | | | Untitled | | | I also attach a paper attributed to John Epps "The Jesus Principle" that may be helpful. Peace, Bud On 12 Apr 2025, at 16:34, James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> wrote: Bud asked ( and Jim dodged) this question: "How is the claim of "encountering another world” related to the Gospel?" Anyone?? I am still hoping for a recording of “The Mys’try is Everywhere” Anyone? Jim Wiegel “…the long work of turning their lives into a celebration is not easy. Come and let us talk“. The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver On Apr 12, 2025, at 8:15 AM, rev.bud@mac.com wrote: "How is the claim of "encountering another world” related to the Gospel?"
I think Bud says about the turn to the world, “In so doing they decided to emphasize Cultural Studies over Religious Studies”. In my memory it had less to do with studies and more to do with strategy. Joe Mathews came back from a world church meeting that declined to confirm the Order Ecumenical as an entity. That and other dynamics led to a decision to shift from focusing on the local church as the change agent in history (a la HRN) to a direct facilitation method in the community, public and private sectors with LENS and then ICA Facilitation. Along with the Global Demonstration Projects and the ‘whistle points,’ the ICA became a strategic attempt to create a consensus based societal direction. Many of us took those methods and models into a variety of corporate, community and non-profit entities. That in turn involved looking at the dynamics that created and sustained a context that was derived from RS-1 but expressed in non-theological language. Formal Christian language and symbolism had become a restricting dynamic in addressing and engaging a wider audience. My take anyway. And apologies for the wordy rant in my previous response. I get that way sometimes. FWIW Bill Schlesinger From: Dialogue <dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of James Wiegel via Dialogue Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2025 1:25 PM To: rev.bud@mac.com Cc: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Community <oe@wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] 2 questions about the other world in the midst of this world SO . . .looks like no one has a recording of "The Mys'try is Everywhere" Would anyone be willing to SING it on zoom while I record? SO . . . 2 people responded that we did indeed encounter / (re) discover /map the other world (the phenomena of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquility) in the midst of "this world". ANYONE ELSE?? As to Bud's question, see below some interweaving. <rev.bud@mac.com <mailto:rev.bud@mac.com> > wrote: Let me be clearer, if I can, of what I’m asking, which is in reference to Jim Wiegel’s question: "Did we actually encounter/(re)discover the other world in the midst of this world (the realities of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquillity as present in our lives and world) or did we just say that?” I’m aware of a lot concerning the beginnings of the Order. <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/TmUQj4_wKtE?si%3Dra_czWIN1uUzTsv9&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw3b9nAx2XaeuxYkE9zU_v9k> Jack Lewis hiring Joe Matthews to be an extraordinary lecturer for the Christian Faith and Life Community in Austin. The development of RSI around a Christian existentialism based on Bultmann, Tillich, and Bonhoeffer in the early 1950s. I think you should include H. Richard Niebuhr . . . <https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png> 24 Joe Slicker Mathews Went Down to be with Jack Lewis I’m aware of what we may call a ’turn to the church’ by part of the CFLC staff <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/wwSefTMgDH4?si%3Dvy28C99WlyVQNpme&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw3o5OMLgcdCp46vcrFUPkjC> with part of them going off to Chicago <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/uIutSynAQV0?si%3DllE6EueDZd8Vg-qi&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw0vO5ByIaAWp7rACbTdn2jG> in Easter 1962 to create E.I. <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/qsGecqvnQqs?si%3DdJsgi_uw6MPnQPu3&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw2Fu9bCwIhJHYKQajI49pyx> I’m aware of the ’turn to the world’ in the 1970s. In so doing they decided to emphasize Cultural Studies over Religious Studies. <https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png> 41 Joe Slicker Let Me Tell You a Little About Evanston <https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png> 42 Joe Slicker Who Went Up from Austin in that Truck% <https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png> 31 Joe Slicker In '62 We Got Run out of Austin This was not a discontinuation of dependence upon an existentialist theology. Though the Order shunned Gene Marshall, he did not shun the thought of Bultmann, Tillich, and Bonhoeffer. I reference his writings where he develops their thought (https://www.realisticliving.org/koob/GreatParagraphs/) It is even clearer his continued reliance on existentialism in his lecture on Consciousness: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2d5zZB1e5A <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2d5zZB1e5A&t=403s> &t=403s) But I lost contact with the Order and its thought basis after the ’turn to the world'. Was there further theological reflection beyond existentialism? If so, what form did it take? I don't really know enough theology or philosophy in a formal or academic sense to answer your question. Here are some possibilities. What about this little talk about <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://wedgeblade.net/gold_path/data/comd/100012.htm&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw3yq0bumSB7rYlIJuHCkTZ2> "The Barefoot Jesus" Untitled I also attach a paper attributed to John Epps "The Jesus Principle" that may be helpful. Peace, Bud On 12 Apr 2025, at 16:34, James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com <mailto:jfwiegel@yahoo.com> > wrote: Bud asked ( and Jim dodged) this question: "How is the claim of "encountering another world” related to the Gospel?" Anyone?? I am still hoping for a recording of “The Mys’try is Everywhere” Anyone? Jim Wiegel “…the long work of turning their lives into a celebration is not easy. Come and let us talk“. The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver On Apr 12, 2025, at 8:15 AM, rev.bud@mac.com <mailto:rev.bud@mac.com> wrote: "How is the claim of "encountering another world” related to the Gospel?" -- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you
And there was the move to the parish . . . I think there were several world council meetings and also a couple of meetings in Rome that had to do with introducing us. To my knowledge no one has pulled that together. Jim Wiegel Theunknown is what is. And to be frightened of it is what sends everybodyscurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, allthat. Unknown is what is. Accept that it's unknown, and it's plainsailing. John Lennon 401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com On Sunday, April 13, 2025 at 04:45:14 PM MST, w.schlesinger@pvida.net <w.schlesinger@pvida.net> wrote: I think Bud says about the turn to the world, “In so doing they decided to emphasize Cultural Studies over Religious Studies”. In my memory it had less to do with studies and more to do with strategy. Joe Mathews came back from a world church meeting that declined to confirm the Order Ecumenical as an entity. That and other dynamics led to a decision to shift from focusing on the local church as the change agent in history (a la HRN) to a direct facilitation method in the community, public and private sectors with LENS and then ICA Facilitation. Along with the Global Demonstration Projects and the ‘whistle points,’ the ICA became a strategic attempt to create a consensus based societal direction. Many of us took those methods and models into a variety of corporate, community and non-profit entities. That in turn involved looking at the dynamics that created and sustained a context that was derived from RS-1 but expressed in non-theological language. Formal Christian language and symbolism had become a restricting dynamic in addressing and engaging a wider audience. My take anyway. And apologies for the wordy rant in my previous response. I get that way sometimes. FWIW Bill Schlesinger From: Dialogue <dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of James Wiegel via Dialogue Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2025 1:25 PM To: rev.bud@mac.com Cc: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Community <oe@wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] 2 questions about the other world in the midst of this world SO . . .looks like no one has a recording of "The Mys'try is Everywhere" Would anyone be willing to SING it on zoom while I record? SO . . . 2 people responded that we did indeed encounter / (re) discover /map the other world (the phenomena of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquility) in the midst of "this world". ANYONE ELSE?? As to Bud's question, see below some interweaving. <rev.bud@mac.com> wrote: Let me be clearer, if I can, of what I’m asking, which is in reference to Jim Wiegel’s question: "Did we actually encounter/(re)discover the other world in the midst of this world (the realities of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquillity as present in our lives and world) or did we just say that?” I’m aware of a lot concerning the beginnings of the Order. Jack Lewis hiring Joe Matthews to be an extraordinary lecturer for the Christian Faith and Life Community in Austin. The development of RSI around a Christian existentialism based on Bultmann, Tillich, and Bonhoeffer in the early 1950s. I think you should include H. Richard Niebuhr . . . | | | | | | | | | | | | | 24 Joe Slicker Mathews Went Down to be with Jack Lewis | | | I’m aware of what we may call a ’turn to the church’ by part of the CFLC staff with part of them going off to Chicago in Easter 1962 to create E.I. I’m aware of the ’turn to the world’ in the 1970s. In so doing they decided to emphasize Cultural Studies over Religious Studies. | | | | | | | | | | | | | 41 Joe Slicker Let Me Tell You a Little About Evanston | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | 42 Joe Slicker Who Went Up from Austin in that Truck% | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | 31 Joe Slicker In '62 We Got Run out of Austin | | | This was not a discontinuation of dependence upon an existentialist theology. Though the Order shunned Gene Marshall, he did not shun the thought of Bultmann, Tillich, and Bonhoeffer. I reference his writings where he develops their thought (https://www.realisticliving.org/koob/GreatParagraphs/) It is even clearer his continued reliance on existentialism in his lecture on Consciousness: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2d5zZB1e5A&t=403s) But I lost contact with the Order and its thought basis after the ’turn to the world'. Was there further theological reflection beyond existentialism? If so, what form did it take? I don't really know enough theology or philosophy in a formal or academic sense to answer your question. Here are some possibilities. What about this little talk about "The Barefoot Jesus" | | | | Untitled | | | I also attach a paper attributed to John Epps "The Jesus Principle" that may be helpful. Peace, Bud On 12 Apr 2025, at 16:34, James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> wrote: Bud asked ( and Jim dodged) this question: "How is the claim of "encountering another world” related to the Gospel?" Anyone?? I am still hoping for a recording of “The Mys’try is Everywhere” Anyone? Jim Wiegel “…the long work of turning their lives into a celebration is not easy. Come and let us talk“. The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver On Apr 12, 2025, at 8:15 AM, rev.bud@mac.com wrote: "How is the claim of "encountering another world” related to the Gospel?" CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you
I am still wrestling with the question 1. Did we actually encounter / (re)discover the other world in the midst of this world (the realities of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquility as present in our lives and world) or did we just say that?? I don't think it is a theological question in the first instance at all, but a question of historical experience and discovery. What were the great discoveries of the 20th Century? Was the (re)discovery of what we pointed to as "The Other World in the Midst of This World" one of them? Was it only "us" or is this rediscovery a part of our collective human experience? Here is a podcast . . . https://notebooklm.google.com/notebook/a10b2cfb-c855-4193-acd4-a6a93d768012/... And if so, how is this discovery useful in dealing with the challenges of the rest of this century? Jim Wiegel Theunknown is what is. And to be frightened of it is what sends everybodyscurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, allthat. Unknown is what is. Accept that it's unknown, and it's plainsailing. John Lennon 401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com On Sunday, April 13, 2025 at 04:45:14 PM MST, <w.schlesinger@pvida.net> wrote: I think Bud says about the turn to the world, “In so doing they decided to emphasize Cultural Studies over Religious Studies”. In my memory it had less to do with studies and more to do with strategy. Joe Mathews came back from a world church meeting that declined to confirm the Order Ecumenical as an entity. That and other dynamics led to a decision to shift from focusing on the local church as the change agent in history (a la HRN) to a direct facilitation method in the community, public and private sectors with LENS and then ICA Facilitation. Along with the Global Demonstration Projects and the ‘whistle points,’ the ICA became a strategic attempt to create a consensus based societal direction. Many of us took those methods and models into a variety of corporate, community and non-profit entities. That in turn involved looking at the dynamics that created and sustained a context that was derived from RS-1 but expressed in non-theological language. Formal Christian language and symbolism had become a restricting dynamic in addressing and engaging a wider audience. My take anyway. And apologies for the wordy rant in my previous response. I get that way sometimes. FWIW Bill Schlesinger From: Dialogue <dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of James Wiegel via Dialogue Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2025 1:25 PM To: rev.bud@mac.com Cc: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Community <oe@wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] 2 questions about the other world in the midst of this world SO . . .looks like no one has a recording of "The Mys'try is Everywhere" Would anyone be willing to SING it on zoom while I record? SO . . . 2 people responded that we did indeed encounter / (re) discover /map the other world (the phenomena of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquility) in the midst of "this world". ANYONE ELSE?? As to Bud's question, see below some interweaving. <rev.bud@mac.com> wrote: Let me be clearer, if I can, of what I’m asking, which is in reference to Jim Wiegel’s question: "Did we actually encounter/(re)discover the other world in the midst of this world (the realities of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquillity as present in our lives and world) or did we just say that?” I’m aware of a lot concerning the beginnings of the Order. Jack Lewis hiring Joe Matthews to be an extraordinary lecturer for the Christian Faith and Life Community in Austin. The development of RSI around a Christian existentialism based on Bultmann, Tillich, and Bonhoeffer in the early 1950s. I think you should include H. Richard Niebuhr . . . | | | | | | | | | | | | | 24 Joe Slicker Mathews Went Down to be with Jack Lewis | | | I’m aware of what we may call a ’turn to the church’ by part of the CFLC staff with part of them going off to Chicago in Easter 1962 to create E.I. I’m aware of the ’turn to the world’ in the 1970s. In so doing they decided to emphasize Cultural Studies over Religious Studies. | | | | | | | | | | | | | 41 Joe Slicker Let Me Tell You a Little About Evanston | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | 42 Joe Slicker Who Went Up from Austin in that Truck% | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | 31 Joe Slicker In '62 We Got Run out of Austin | | | This was not a discontinuation of dependence upon an existentialist theology. Though the Order shunned Gene Marshall, he did not shun the thought of Bultmann, Tillich, and Bonhoeffer. I reference his writings where he develops their thought (https://www.realisticliving.org/koob/GreatParagraphs/) It is even clearer his continued reliance on existentialism in his lecture on Consciousness: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2d5zZB1e5A&t=403s) But I lost contact with the Order and its thought basis after the ’turn to the world'. Was there further theological reflection beyond existentialism? If so, what form did it take? I don't really know enough theology or philosophy in a formal or academic sense to answer your question. Here are some possibilities. What about this little talk about "The Barefoot Jesus" | | | | Untitled | | | I also attach a paper attributed to John Epps "The Jesus Principle" that may be helpful. Peace, Bud On 12 Apr 2025, at 16:34, James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> wrote: Bud asked ( and Jim dodged) this question: "How is the claim of "encountering another world” related to the Gospel?" Anyone?? I am still hoping for a recording of “The Mys’try is Everywhere” Anyone? Jim Wiegel “…the long work of turning their lives into a celebration is not easy. Come and let us talk“. The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver On Apr 12, 2025, at 8:15 AM, rev.bud@mac.com wrote: "How is the claim of "encountering another world” related to the Gospel?" CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you
I am definitely not a theologian, and don’t know the detailed history of the development of the Other World charts, but I certainly encounter the reality of awe — mystery, consciousness, care, and tranquility, in my life every day. Ken Fisher’s post about the development of the Other World charts tells me that they came out of real, concrete personal experience. And once when I had an overwhelming mystical experience as the result of an extremely challenging facilitation event (I was probably clinically insane in Western terms for a few days as I was observing alternate realities as I was going about the business of facilitating another event), Brian Stanfield recommended that I use the Other World charts to help me understand what had happened to me. It took a long time, but I was able to use the poetry to help me understand what had happened and how I was changed by the event. So yes I encounter the other world in the midst of this world as present in my life and in experiences shared with me by others. For me, the act of grounding abstraction and poetry in real everyday life is one of the key contributions of the Institute, though one we have had a hard time articulating that to others. I think how the Other World understanding is useful in dealing with current and emerging challenges is that it allows humans to acknowledge awe and relate to it in everyday life, rather than let it drive us nuts. Being aware of awe in all its forms certainly enriches my life! Take care, Jo Jo Nelson jo.r.nelson@gmail.com
On Apr 14, 2025, at 9:13 PM, James Wiegel via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
I am still wrestling with the question 1. Did we actually encounter / (re)discover the other world in the midst of this world (the realities of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquility as present in our lives and world) or did we just say that??
I don't think it is a theological question in the first instance at all, but a question of historical experience and discovery. What were the great discoveries of the 20th Century? Was the (re)discovery of what we pointed to as "The Other World in the Midst of This World" one of them? Was it only "us" or is this rediscovery a part of our collective human experience?
Here is a podcast . . . https://notebooklm.google.com/notebook/a10b2cfb-c855-4193-acd4-a6a93d768012/...
And if so, how is this discovery useful in dealing with the challenges of the rest of this century?
Jim Wiegel <http://partnersinparticipation.com/james-wiegel/>
The unknown is what is. And to be frightened of it is what sends everybody scurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, all that. Unknown is what is. Accept that it's unknown, and it's plain sailing. John Lennon
401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com <mailto:marilyn.oyler@gmail.com> www.partnersinparticipation.com <http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/>
On Sunday, April 13, 2025 at 04:45:14 PM MST, <w.schlesinger@pvida.net> wrote:
I think Bud says about the turn to the world, “In so doing they decided to emphasize Cultural Studies over Religious Studies”.
In my memory it had less to do with studies and more to do with strategy. Joe Mathews came back from a world church meeting that declined to confirm the Order Ecumenical as an entity. That and other dynamics led to a decision to shift from focusing on the local church as the change agent in history (a la HRN) to a direct facilitation method in the community, public and private sectors with LENS and then ICA Facilitation. Along with the Global Demonstration Projects and the ‘whistle points,’ the ICA became a strategic attempt to create a consensus based societal direction. Many of us took those methods and models into a variety of corporate, community and non-profit entities.
That in turn involved looking at the dynamics that created and sustained a context that was derived from RS-1 but expressed in non-theological language. Formal Christian language and symbolism had become a restricting dynamic in addressing and engaging a wider audience.
My take anyway. And apologies for the wordy rant in my previous response. I get that way sometimes.
FWIW
Bill Schlesinger
From: Dialogue <dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of James Wiegel via Dialogue Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2025 1:25 PM To: rev.bud@mac.com Cc: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Community <oe@wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] 2 questions about the other world in the midst of this world
SO . . .looks like no one has a recording of "The Mys'try is Everywhere" Would anyone be willing to SING it on zoom while I record?
SO . . . 2 people responded that we did indeed encounter / (re) discover /map the other world (the phenomena of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquility) in the midst of "this world".
ANYONE ELSE??
As to Bud's question, see below some interweaving.
<rev.bud@mac.com <mailto:rev.bud@mac.com>> wrote:
Let me be clearer, if I can, of what I’m asking, which is in reference to Jim Wiegel’s question: "Did we actually encounter/(re)discover the other world in the midst of this world (the realities of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquillity as present in our lives and world) or did we just say that?”
I’m aware of a lot concerning the beginnings of the Order. Jack Lewis hiring Joe Matthews <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/TmUQj4_wKtE?si%3Dra_czWIN1uUzTsv9&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw3b9nAx2XaeuxYkE9zU_v9k> to be an extraordinary lecturer for the Christian Faith and Life Community in Austin. The development of RSI around a Christian existentialism based on Bultmann, Tillich, and Bonhoeffer in the early 1950s. I think you should include H. Richard Niebuhr . . .
<image007.jpg>
<image008.png>
24 Joe Slicker Mathews Went Down to be with Jack Lewis
I’m aware of what we may call a ’turn to the church’ by part of the CFLC staff <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/wwSefTMgDH4?si%3Dvy28C99WlyVQNpme&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw3o5OMLgcdCp46vcrFUPkjC> with part of them going off to Chicago <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/uIutSynAQV0?si%3DllE6EueDZd8Vg-qi&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw0vO5ByIaAWp7rACbTdn2jG> in Easter 1962 to create E.I. <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/qsGecqvnQqs?si%3DdJsgi_uw6MPnQPu3&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw2Fu9bCwIhJHYKQajI49pyx>I’m aware of the ’turn to the world’ in the 1970s. In so doing they decided to emphasize Cultural Studies over Religious Studies.
<image009.jpg>
<image010.png>
41 Joe Slicker Let Me Tell You a Little About Evanston
<image011.jpg>
<image012.png>
42 Joe Slicker Who Went Up from Austin in that Truck%
<image013.jpg>
<image010.png>
31 Joe Slicker In '62 We Got Run out of Austin
This was not a discontinuation of dependence upon an existentialist theology. Though the Order shunned Gene Marshall, he did not shun the thought of Bultmann, Tillich, and Bonhoeffer. I reference his writings where he develops their thought (https://www.realisticliving.org/koob/GreatParagraphs/)
It is even clearer his continued reliance on existentialism in his lecture on Consciousness:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2d5zZB1e5A&t=403s)
But I lost contact with the Order and its thought basis after the ’turn to the world'. Was there further theological reflection beyond existentialism? If so, what form did it take?
I don't really know enough theology or philosophy in a formal or academic sense to answer your question. Here are some possibilities.
What about this little talk about "The Barefoot Jesus" <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://wedgeblade.net/gold_path/data/comd/100012.htm&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw3yq0bumSB7rYlIJuHCkTZ2>
Untitled
I also attach a paper attributed to John Epps "The Jesus Principle" that may be helpful.
Peace,
Bud
On 12 Apr 2025, at 16:34, James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com <mailto:jfwiegel@yahoo.com>> wrote:
Bud asked ( and Jim dodged) this question: "How is the claim of "encountering another world” related to the Gospel?"
Anyone??
I am still hoping for a recording of “The Mys’try is Everywhere”
Anyone?
Jim Wiegel
“…the long work of turning their lives into a celebration is not easy. Come and let us talk“.
The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver
On Apr 12, 2025, at 8:15 AM, rev.bud@mac.com <mailto:rev.bud@mac.com> wrote:
"How is the claim of "encountering another world” related to the Gospel?"
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you <image010.png><image009.jpg><image008.png><image007.jpg><image013.jpg><image012.png><image011.jpg>_______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
Thank you, Jo, for your down to earth, clear, personal, experiential explanations of the OW in the midst of TW. Yes, it is poetry pointing to neurological, emotional, psychological, spiritual states of consciousness in the midst of daily, mundane experience. Robertson Work Books and bio<https://www.amazon.com/Robertson-Work/e/B075612GBF> Essays on Substack<https://robertsonwork.substack.com/> Videos and articles<https://www.globalcompassioncoalition.org/author/robertson-work/> Interviews and poetry<https://www.globalheart2heart.com/a-compassionate-civilization-creating-a-new-future-now/?fbclid=IwAR2EAy4c64wCRzlzUCzVKXokqce3hePofFvzdzvCM5aDYRb9QgdFyQPUyxU> ________________________________ From: Dialogue <dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> on behalf of Jo Nelson via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2025 9:35 PM To: Jim Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Jo Nelson <jo.r.nelson@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] 2 questions about the other world in the midst of this world I am definitely not a theologian, and don’t know the detailed history of the development of the Other World charts, but I certainly encounter the reality of awe — mystery, consciousness, care, and tranquility, in my life every day. Ken Fisher’s post about the development of the Other World charts tells me that they came out of real, concrete personal experience. And once when I had an overwhelming mystical experience as the result of an extremely challenging facilitation event (I was probably clinically insane in Western terms for a few days as I was observing alternate realities as I was going about the business of facilitating another event), Brian Stanfield recommended that I use the Other World charts to help me understand what had happened to me. It took a long time, but I was able to use the poetry to help me understand what had happened and how I was changed by the event. So yes I encounter the other world in the midst of this world as present in my life and in experiences shared with me by others. For me, the act of grounding abstraction and poetry in real everyday life is one of the key contributions of the Institute, though one we have had a hard time articulating that to others. I think how the Other World understanding is useful in dealing with current and emerging challenges is that it allows humans to acknowledge awe and relate to it in everyday life, rather than let it drive us nuts. Being aware of awe in all its forms certainly enriches my life! Take care, Jo Jo Nelson jo.r.nelson@gmail.com On Apr 14, 2025, at 9:13 PM, James Wiegel via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: I am still wrestling with the question 1. Did we actually encounter / (re)discover the other world in the midst of this world (the realities of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquility as present in our lives and world) or did we just say that?? I don't think it is a theological question in the first instance at all, but a question of historical experience and discovery. What were the great discoveries of the 20th Century? Was the (re)discovery of what we pointed to as "The Other World in the Midst of This World" one of them? Was it only "us" or is this rediscovery a part of our collective human experience? Here is a podcast . . . https://notebooklm.google.com/notebook/a10b2cfb-c855-4193-acd4-a6a93d768012/... And if so, how is this discovery useful in dealing with the challenges of the rest of this century? Jim Wiegel <http://partnersinparticipation.com/james-wiegel/> The unknown is what is. And to be frightened of it is what sends everybody scurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, all that. Unknown is what is. Accept that it's unknown, and it's plain sailing. John Lennon 401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com<mailto:marilyn.oyler@gmail.com> www.partnersinparticipation.com<http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/> On Sunday, April 13, 2025 at 04:45:14 PM MST, <w.schlesinger@pvida.net> wrote: I think Bud says about the turn to the world, “In so doing they decided to emphasize Cultural Studies over Religious Studies”. In my memory it had less to do with studies and more to do with strategy. Joe Mathews came back from a world church meeting that declined to confirm the Order Ecumenical as an entity. That and other dynamics led to a decision to shift from focusing on the local church as the change agent in history (a la HRN) to a direct facilitation method in the community, public and private sectors with LENS and then ICA Facilitation. Along with the Global Demonstration Projects and the ‘whistle points,’ the ICA became a strategic attempt to create a consensus based societal direction. Many of us took those methods and models into a variety of corporate, community and non-profit entities. That in turn involved looking at the dynamics that created and sustained a context that was derived from RS-1 but expressed in non-theological language. Formal Christian language and symbolism had become a restricting dynamic in addressing and engaging a wider audience. My take anyway. And apologies for the wordy rant in my previous response. I get that way sometimes. FWIW Bill Schlesinger From: Dialogue <dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of James Wiegel via Dialogue Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2025 1:25 PM To: rev.bud@mac.com Cc: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Community <oe@wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] 2 questions about the other world in the midst of this world SO . . .looks like no one has a recording of "The Mys'try is Everywhere" Would anyone be willing to SING it on zoom while I record? SO . . . 2 people responded that we did indeed encounter / (re) discover /map the other world (the phenomena of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquility) in the midst of "this world". ANYONE ELSE?? As to Bud's question, see below some interweaving. <rev.bud@mac.com<mailto:rev.bud@mac.com>> wrote: Let me be clearer, if I can, of what I’m asking, which is in reference to Jim Wiegel’s question: "Did we actually encounter/(re)discover the other world in the midst of this world (the realities of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquillity as present in our lives and world) or did we just say that?” I’m aware of a lot concerning the beginnings of the Order. Jack Lewis hiring Joe Matthews<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/TmUQj4_wKtE?si%3Dra_czWIN1uUzTsv9&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw3b9nAx2XaeuxYkE9zU_v9k> to be an extraordinary lecturer for the Christian Faith and Life Community in Austin. The development of RSI around a Christian existentialism based on Bultmann, Tillich, and Bonhoeffer in the early 1950s. I think you should include H. Richard Niebuhr . . . <image007.jpg> <image008.png> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png] 24 Joe Slicker Mathews Went Down to be with Jack Lewis I’m aware of what we may call a ’turn to the church’ by part of the CFLC staff<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/wwSefTMgDH4?si%3Dvy28C99WlyVQNpme&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw3o5OMLgcdCp46vcrFUPkjC> with part of them going off to Chicago<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/uIutSynAQV0?si%3DllE6EueDZd8Vg-qi&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw0vO5ByIaAWp7rACbTdn2jG> in Easter 1962 to create E.I. <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/qsGecqvnQqs?si%3DdJsgi_uw6MPnQPu3&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw2Fu9bCwIhJHYKQajI49pyx> I’m aware of the ’turn to the world’ in the 1970s. In so doing they decided to emphasize Cultural Studies over Religious Studies. <image009.jpg> <image010.png> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png] 41 Joe Slicker Let Me Tell You a Little About Evanston <image011.jpg> <image012.png> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png] 42 Joe Slicker Who Went Up from Austin in that Truck• <image013.jpg> <image010.png> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png] 31 Joe Slicker In '62 We Got Run out of Austin This was not a discontinuation of dependence upon an existentialist theology. Though the Order shunned Gene Marshall, he did not shun the thought of Bultmann, Tillich, and Bonhoeffer. I reference his writings where he develops their thought (https://www.realisticliving.org/koob/GreatParagraphs/) It is even clearer his continued reliance on existentialism in his lecture on Consciousness: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2d5zZB1e5A&t=403s) But I lost contact with the Order and its thought basis after the ’turn to the world'. Was there further theological reflection beyond existentialism? If so, what form did it take? I don't really know enough theology or philosophy in a formal or academic sense to answer your question. Here are some possibilities. What about this little talk about "The Barefoot Jesus"<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://wedgeblade.net/gold_path/data/comd/100012.htm&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw3yq0bumSB7rYlIJuHCkTZ2> Untitled I also attach a paper attributed to John Epps "The Jesus Principle" that may be helpful. Peace, Bud On 12 Apr 2025, at 16:34, James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com<mailto:jfwiegel@yahoo.com>> wrote: Bud asked ( and Jim dodged) this question: "How is the claim of "encountering another world” related to the Gospel?" Anyone?? I am still hoping for a recording of “The Mys’try is Everywhere” Anyone? Jim Wiegel “…the long work of turning their lives into a celebration is not easy. Come and let us talk“. The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver On Apr 12, 2025, at 8:15 AM, rev.bud@mac.com<mailto:rev.bud@mac.com> wrote: "How is the claim of "encountering another world” related to the Gospel?" CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you <image010.png><image009.jpg><image008.png><image007.jpg><image013.jpg><image012.png><image011.jpg>_______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
Hello James, The podcast is most interesting. Who are those people? I am curious as to how they got a hold of our Other World in the Midst of this World topography. It's fine that they did. Following Lee Early's death, Leah asked me if I could put together a piece about the Other World to commemorate Lee's life, especially the spirit realm so as to make it accessible for his grandsons. Lee wanted it to be about the Other World. Attached is what I came up with. Blessings, Sharon On Mon, Apr 14, 2025 at 6:15 PM James Wiegel via Dialogue < dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
I am still wrestling with the question 1. Did we actually encounter / (re)discover the other world in the midst of this world (the realities of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquility as present in our lives and world) or did we just say that??
I don't think it is a theological question in the first instance at all, but a question of historical experience and discovery. What were the great discoveries of the 20th Century? Was the (re)discovery of what we pointed to as "The Other World in the Midst of This World" one of them? Was it only "us" or is this rediscovery a part of our collective human experience?
Here is a podcast . . . https://notebooklm.google.com/notebook/a10b2cfb-c855-4193-acd4-a6a93d768012/...
And if so, how is this discovery useful in dealing with the challenges of the rest of this century?
Jim Wiegel <http://partnersinparticipation.com/james-wiegel/>
The unknown is what is. And to be frightened of it is what sends everybody scurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, all that. Unknown is what is. Accept that it's unknown, and it's plain sailing. John Lennon
401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353
623-363-3277
jfwiegel@yahoo.com <marilyn.oyler@gmail.com>
www.partnersinparticipation.com
On Sunday, April 13, 2025 at 04:45:14 PM MST, <w.schlesinger@pvida.net> wrote:
I think Bud says about the turn to the world, “In so doing they decided to emphasize Cultural Studies over Religious Studies”.
In my memory it had less to do with studies and more to do with strategy. Joe Mathews came back from a world church meeting that declined to confirm the Order Ecumenical as an entity. That and other dynamics led to a decision to shift from focusing on the local church as the change agent in history (a la HRN) to a direct facilitation method in the community, public and private sectors with LENS and then ICA Facilitation. Along with the Global Demonstration Projects and the ‘whistle points,’ the ICA became a strategic attempt to create a consensus based societal direction. Many of us took those methods and models into a variety of corporate, community and non-profit entities.
That in turn involved looking at the dynamics that created and sustained a context that was derived from RS-1 but expressed in non-theological language. Formal Christian language and symbolism had become a restricting dynamic in addressing and engaging a wider audience.
My take anyway. And apologies for the wordy rant in my previous response. I get that way sometimes.
FWIW
Bill Schlesinger
*From:* Dialogue <dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> *On Behalf Of *James Wiegel via Dialogue *Sent:* Sunday, April 13, 2025 1:25 PM *To:* rev.bud@mac.com *Cc:* James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; Colleague Dialogue < dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Community <oe@wedgeblade.net> *Subject:* Re: [Dialogue] 2 questions about the other world in the midst of this world
SO . . .looks like no one has a recording of "The Mys'try is Everywhere" Would anyone be willing to SING it on zoom while I record?
SO . . . 2 people responded that we did indeed encounter / (re) discover /map the other world (the phenomena of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquility) in the midst of "this world".
ANYONE ELSE??
As to Bud's question, see below some interweaving.
<rev.bud@mac.com> wrote:
Let me be clearer, if I can, of what I’m asking, which is in reference to Jim Wiegel’s question: "Did we actually encounter/(re)discover the other world in the midst of this world (the realities of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquillity as present in our lives and world) or did we just say that?”
I’m aware of a lot concerning the beginnings of the Order. Jack Lewis hiring Joe Matthews <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/TmUQj4_wKtE?si%3Dra_czWIN1uUzTsv9&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw3b9nAx2XaeuxYkE9zU_v9k> to be an extraordinary lecturer for the Christian Faith and Life Community in Austin. The development of RSI around a Christian existentialism based on Bultmann, Tillich, and Bonhoeffer in the early 1950s. I think you should include H. Richard Niebuhr . . .
24 Joe Slicker Mathews Went Down to be with Jack Lewis
I’m aware of what we may call a ’turn to the church’ by part of the CFLC staff <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/wwSefTMgDH4?si%3Dvy28C99WlyVQNpme&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw3o5OMLgcdCp46vcrFUPkjC> with part of them going off to Chicago <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/uIutSynAQV0?si%3DllE6EueDZd8Vg-qi&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw0vO5ByIaAWp7rACbTdn2jG> in Easter 1962 to create E.I. <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/qsGecqvnQqs?si%3DdJsgi_uw6MPnQPu3&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw2Fu9bCwIhJHYKQajI49pyx>I’m aware of the ’turn to the world’ in the 1970s. In so doing they decided to emphasize Cultural Studies over Religious Studies.
41 Joe Slicker Let Me Tell You a Little About Evanston
42 Joe Slicker Who Went Up from Austin in that Truck%
31 Joe Slicker In '62 We Got Run out of Austin
This was not a discontinuation of dependence upon an existentialist theology. Though the Order shunned Gene Marshall, he did not shun the thought of Bultmann, Tillich, and Bonhoeffer. I reference his writings where he develops their thought ( https://www.realisticliving.org/koob/GreatParagraphs/)
It is even clearer his continued reliance on existentialism in his lecture on Consciousness:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2d5zZB1e5A&t=403s)
But I lost contact with the Order and its thought basis after the ’turn to the world'. Was there further theological reflection beyond existentialism? If so, what form did it take?
I don't really know enough theology or philosophy in a formal or academic sense to answer your question. Here are some possibilities.
What about this little talk about "The Barefoot Jesus" <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://wedgeblade.net/gold_path/data/comd/100012.htm&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw3yq0bumSB7rYlIJuHCkTZ2>
Untitled
I also attach a paper attributed to John Epps "The Jesus Principle" that may be helpful.
Peace,
Bud
On 12 Apr 2025, at 16:34, James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> wrote:
Bud asked ( and Jim dodged) this question: "How is the claim of "encountering another world” related to the Gospel?"
Anyone??
I am still hoping for a recording of “The Mys’try is Everywhere”
Anyone?
Jim Wiegel
“…the long work of turning their lives into a celebration is not easy. Come and let us talk“.
The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver
On Apr 12, 2025, at 8:15 AM, rev.bud@mac.com wrote:
"How is the claim of "encountering another world” related to the Gospel?"
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
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Sharon, The clue to Jim Wiegel’s “magic” is revealed after you click on the link and at the bottom appears “NotebookLM. Generated by AI based on user provided sources and instructions.” Jim, I’m curious about the information and instruction you provide the Google product NotebookLM. Regards Kevin From: Dialogue <dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of Sharon Fisher via Dialogue Sent: Tuesday, 15 April 2025 1:15 PM To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Sharon Fisher <saf1220@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] 2 questions about the other world in the midst of this world Hello James, The podcast is most interesting. Who are those people? I am curious as to how they got a hold of our Other World in the Midst of this World topography. It's fine that they did. Following Lee Early's death, Leah asked me if I could put together a piece about the Other World to commemorate Lee's life, especially the spirit realm so as to make it accessible for his grandsons. Lee wanted it to be about the Other World. Attached is what I came up with. Blessings, Sharon On Mon, Apr 14, 2025 at 6:15 PM James Wiegel via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> > wrote: I am still wrestling with the question 1. Did we actually encounter / (re)discover the other world in the midst of this world (the realities of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquility as present in our lives and world) or did we just say that?? I don't think it is a theological question in the first instance at all, but a question of historical experience and discovery. What were the great discoveries of the 20th Century? Was the (re)discovery of what we pointed to as "The Other World in the Midst of This World" one of them? Was it only "us" or is this rediscovery a part of our collective human experience? Here is a podcast . . . <https://notebooklm.google.com/notebook/a10b2cfb-c855-4193-acd4-a6a93d768012/audio> https://notebooklm.google.com/notebook/a10b2cfb-c855-4193-acd4-a6a93d768012/... And if so, how is this discovery useful in dealing with the challenges of the rest of this century? Jim Wiegel <http://partnersinparticipation.com/james-wiegel/> The unknown is what is. And to be frightened of it is what sends everybody scurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, all that. Unknown is what is. Accept that it's unknown, and it's plain sailing. John Lennon 401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com <mailto:marilyn.oyler@gmail.com> www.partnersinparticipation.com <http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/> On Sunday, April 13, 2025 at 04:45:14 PM MST, <w.schlesinger@pvida.net <mailto:w.schlesinger@pvida.net> > wrote: I think Bud says about the turn to the world, “In so doing they decided to emphasize Cultural Studies over Religious Studies”. In my memory it had less to do with studies and more to do with strategy. Joe Mathews came back from a world church meeting that declined to confirm the Order Ecumenical as an entity. That and other dynamics led to a decision to shift from focusing on the local church as the change agent in history (a la HRN) to a direct facilitation method in the community, public and private sectors with LENS and then ICA Facilitation. Along with the Global Demonstration Projects and the ‘whistle points,’ the ICA became a strategic attempt to create a consensus based societal direction. Many of us took those methods and models into a variety of corporate, community and non-profit entities. That in turn involved looking at the dynamics that created and sustained a context that was derived from RS-1 but expressed in non-theological language. Formal Christian language and symbolism had become a restricting dynamic in addressing and engaging a wider audience. My take anyway. And apologies for the wordy rant in my previous response. I get that way sometimes. FWIW Bill Schlesinger From: Dialogue <dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> > On Behalf Of James Wiegel via Dialogue Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2025 1:25 PM To: rev.bud@mac.com <mailto:rev.bud@mac.com> Cc: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com <mailto:jfwiegel@yahoo.com> >; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> >; Order Community <oe@wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@wedgeblade.net> > Subject: Re: [Dialogue] 2 questions about the other world in the midst of this world SO . . .looks like no one has a recording of "The Mys'try is Everywhere" Would anyone be willing to SING it on zoom while I record? SO . . . 2 people responded that we did indeed encounter / (re) discover /map the other world (the phenomena of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquility) in the midst of "this world". ANYONE ELSE?? As to Bud's question, see below some interweaving. <rev.bud@mac.com <mailto:rev.bud@mac.com> > wrote: Let me be clearer, if I can, of what I’m asking, which is in reference to Jim Wiegel’s question: "Did we actually encounter/(re)discover the other world in the midst of this world (the realities of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquillity as present in our lives and world) or did we just say that?” I’m aware of a lot concerning the beginnings of the Order. <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/TmUQj4_wKtE?si%3Dra_czWIN1uUzTsv9&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw3b9nAx2XaeuxYkE9zU_v9k> Jack Lewis hiring Joe Matthews to be an extraordinary lecturer for the Christian Faith and Life Community in Austin. The development of RSI around a Christian existentialism based on Bultmann, Tillich, and Bonhoeffer in the early 1950s. I think you should include H. Richard Niebuhr . . . <https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png> 24 Joe Slicker Mathews Went Down to be with Jack Lewis I’m aware of what we may call a ’turn to the church’ by part of the CFLC staff <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/wwSefTMgDH4?si%3Dvy28C99WlyVQNpme&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw3o5OMLgcdCp46vcrFUPkjC> with part of them going off to Chicago <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/uIutSynAQV0?si%3DllE6EueDZd8Vg-qi&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw0vO5ByIaAWp7rACbTdn2jG> in Easter 1962 to create E.I. <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/qsGecqvnQqs?si%3DdJsgi_uw6MPnQPu3&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw2Fu9bCwIhJHYKQajI49pyx> I’m aware of the ’turn to the world’ in the 1970s. In so doing they decided to emphasize Cultural Studies over Religious Studies. <https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png> 41 Joe Slicker Let Me Tell You a Little About Evanston <https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png> 42 Joe Slicker Who Went Up from Austin in that Truck% <https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png> 31 Joe Slicker In '62 We Got Run out of Austin This was not a discontinuation of dependence upon an existentialist theology. Though the Order shunned Gene Marshall, he did not shun the thought of Bultmann, Tillich, and Bonhoeffer. I reference his writings where he develops their thought (https://www.realisticliving.org/koob/GreatParagraphs/) It is even clearer his continued reliance on existentialism in his lecture on Consciousness: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2d5zZB1e5A <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2d5zZB1e5A&t=403s> &t=403s) But I lost contact with the Order and its thought basis after the ’turn to the world'. Was there further theological reflection beyond existentialism? If so, what form did it take? I don't really know enough theology or philosophy in a formal or academic sense to answer your question. Here are some possibilities. What about this little talk about <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://wedgeblade.net/gold_path/data/comd/100012.htm&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw3yq0bumSB7rYlIJuHCkTZ2> "The Barefoot Jesus" Untitled I also attach a paper attributed to John Epps "The Jesus Principle" that may be helpful. Peace, Bud On 12 Apr 2025, at 16:34, James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com <mailto:jfwiegel@yahoo.com> > wrote: Bud asked ( and Jim dodged) this question: "How is the claim of "encountering another world” related to the Gospel?" Anyone?? I am still hoping for a recording of “The Mys’try is Everywhere” Anyone? Jim Wiegel “…the long work of turning their lives into a celebration is not easy. Come and let us talk“. The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver On Apr 12, 2025, at 8:15 AM, rev.bud@mac.com <mailto:rev.bud@mac.com> wrote: "How is the claim of "encountering another world” related to the Gospel?" CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net -- saf1220@gmail.com <mailto:saf1220@gmail.com> c: 503.807.7385
https://notebooklm.google.com/notebook/a10b2cfb-c855-4193-acd4-a6a93d768012 The above takes you to the page I worked from. I uploaded "The Recovery of the Other World", "Indicative Ethics" and "The Other World Significating Myth for Our Time" and set it to work I am confused how to use this website On the right is where it generates the podcast, but you can click most anywhere and get something generated. For fun, I clicked on the "Significanting Myth" paper and it listed a bunch of topics, I assume are in the paper, so I clicked on "Dramaturgical Framework" and it generated a breakdown of key aspects of this framework Jim Wiegel Theunknown is what is. And to be frightened of it is what sends everybodyscurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, allthat. Unknown is what is. Accept that it's unknown, and it's plainsailing. John Lennon 401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com On Monday, April 14, 2025 at 09:29:23 PM MST, balmkevin@gmail.com <balmkevin@gmail.com> wrote: Sharon, The clue to Jim Wiegel’s “magic” is revealed after you click on the link and at the bottom appears “NotebookLM. Generated by AI based on user provided sources and instructions.” Jim, I’m curious about the information and instruction you provide the Google product NotebookLM. Regards Kevin From: Dialogue <dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of Sharon Fisher via Dialogue Sent: Tuesday, 15 April 2025 1:15 PM To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Sharon Fisher <saf1220@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] 2 questions about the other world in the midst of this world Hello James, The podcast is most interesting. Who are those people? I am curious as to how they got a hold of our Other World in the Midst of this World topography. It's fine that they did. Following Lee Early's death, Leah asked me if I could put together a piece about the Other World to commemorate Lee's life, especially the spirit realm so as to make it accessible for his grandsons. Lee wanted it to be about the Other World. Attached is what I came up with. Blessings, Sharon On Mon, Apr 14, 2025 at 6:15 PM James Wiegel via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: I am still wrestling with the question 1. Did we actually encounter / (re)discover the other world in the midst of this world (the realities of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquility as present in our lives and world) or did we just say that?? I don't think it is a theological question in the first instance at all, but a question of historical experience and discovery. What were the great discoveries of the 20th Century? Was the (re)discovery of what we pointed to as "The Other World in the Midst of This World" one of them? Was it only "us" or is this rediscovery a part of our collective human experience? Here is a podcast . . . https://notebooklm.google.com/notebook/a10b2cfb-c855-4193-acd4-a6a93d768012/... And if so, how is this discovery useful in dealing with the challenges of the rest of this century? Jim Wiegel The unknown is what is. And to be frightened of it is what sends everybody scurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, all that. Unknown is what is. Accept that it's unknown, and it's plain sailing. John Lennon 401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com On Sunday, April 13, 2025 at 04:45:14 PM MST, <w.schlesinger@pvida.net> wrote: I think Bud says about the turn to the world, “In so doing they decided to emphasize Cultural Studies over Religious Studies”. In my memory it had less to do with studies and more to do with strategy. Joe Mathews came back from a world church meeting that declined to confirm the Order Ecumenical as an entity. That and other dynamics led to a decision to shift from focusing on the local church as the change agent in history (a la HRN) to a direct facilitation method in the community, public and private sectors with LENS and then ICA Facilitation. Along with the Global Demonstration Projects and the ‘whistle points,’ the ICA became a strategic attempt to create a consensus based societal direction. Many of us took those methods and models into a variety of corporate, community and non-profit entities. That in turn involved looking at the dynamics that created and sustained a context that was derived from RS-1 but expressed in non-theological language. Formal Christian language and symbolism had become a restricting dynamic in addressing and engaging a wider audience. My take anyway. And apologies for the wordy rant in my previous response. I get that way sometimes. FWIW Bill Schlesinger From: Dialogue <dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of James Wiegel via Dialogue Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2025 1:25 PM To: rev.bud@mac.com Cc: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Community <oe@wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] 2 questions about the other world in the midst of this world SO . . .looks like no one has a recording of "The Mys'try is Everywhere" Would anyone be willing to SING it on zoom while I record? SO . . . 2 people responded that we did indeed encounter / (re) discover /map the other world (the phenomena of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquility) in the midst of "this world". ANYONE ELSE?? As to Bud's question, see below some interweaving. <rev.bud@mac.com> wrote: Let me be clearer, if I can, of what I’m asking, which is in reference to Jim Wiegel’s question: "Did we actually encounter/(re)discover the other world in the midst of this world (the realities of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquillity as present in our lives and world) or did we just say that?” I’m aware of a lot concerning the beginnings of the Order. Jack Lewis hiring Joe Matthews to be an extraordinary lecturer for the Christian Faith and Life Community in Austin. The development of RSI around a Christian existentialism based on Bultmann, Tillich, and Bonhoeffer in the early 1950s. I think you should include H. Richard Niebuhr . . . | | | | | | | | | | | | | 24 Joe Slicker Mathews Went Down to be with Jack Lewis | | | I’m aware of what we may call a ’turn to the church’ by part of the CFLC staff with part of them going off to Chicago in Easter 1962 to create E.I. I’m aware of the ’turn to the world’ in the 1970s. In so doing they decided to emphasize Cultural Studies over Religious Studies. | | | | | | | | | | | | | 41 Joe Slicker Let Me Tell You a Little About Evanston | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | 42 Joe Slicker Who Went Up from Austin in that Truck% | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | 31 Joe Slicker In '62 We Got Run out of Austin | | | This was not a discontinuation of dependence upon an existentialist theology. Though the Order shunned Gene Marshall, he did not shun the thought of Bultmann, Tillich, and Bonhoeffer. I reference his writings where he develops their thought (https://www.realisticliving.org/koob/GreatParagraphs/) It is even clearer his continued reliance on existentialism in his lecture on Consciousness: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2d5zZB1e5A&t=403s) But I lost contact with the Order and its thought basis after the ’turn to the world'. Was there further theological reflection beyond existentialism? If so, what form did it take? I don't really know enough theology or philosophy in a formal or academic sense to answer your question. Here are some possibilities. What about this little talk about "The Barefoot Jesus" | | | | Untitled | | | I also attach a paper attributed to John Epps "The Jesus Principle" that may be helpful. Peace, Bud On 12 Apr 2025, at 16:34, James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> wrote: Bud asked ( and Jim dodged) this question: "How is the claim of "encountering another world” related to the Gospel?" Anyone?? I am still hoping for a recording of “The Mys’try is Everywhere” Anyone? Jim Wiegel “…the long work of turning their lives into a celebration is not easy. Come and let us talk“. The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver On Apr 12, 2025, at 8:15 AM, rev.bud@mac.com wrote: "How is the claim of "encountering another world” related to the Gospel?" CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net -- saf1220@gmail.com c: 503.807.7385
Are people aware that the book Courage to Lead (the Second Edition is clearest) has a chapter on “Meaning in Everyday Life” (Ch. 11) that includes the Other World charts and an exercise on them? Since that is a published book, AI may have had some access to them in that way. Plus there is a section on the Other World on the ICA Archives website at https://icaglobalarchives.org/collections/exploring-inner-life/the-other-wor... If you don’t have Courage to Lead, I highly recommend it. It explores a lot more of ICA’s basic life understandings than the Other World. There are also online study sessions on the book regularly in several different countries, including one in Nepal this spring. ICA Canada’s website has announcements of the ones in Canada. https://www.icacan.org/ Take care, Jo Jo Nelson jo.r.nelson@gmail.com
On Apr 14, 2025, at 9:13 PM, James Wiegel via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
I am still wrestling with the question 1. Did we actually encounter / (re)discover the other world in the midst of this world (the realities of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquility as present in our lives and world) or did we just say that??
I don't think it is a theological question in the first instance at all, but a question of historical experience and discovery. What were the great discoveries of the 20th Century? Was the (re)discovery of what we pointed to as "The Other World in the Midst of This World" one of them? Was it only "us" or is this rediscovery a part of our collective human experience?
Here is a podcast . . . https://notebooklm.google.com/notebook/a10b2cfb-c855-4193-acd4-a6a93d768012/...
And if so, how is this discovery useful in dealing with the challenges of the rest of this century?
Jim Wiegel <http://partnersinparticipation.com/james-wiegel/>
The unknown is what is. And to be frightened of it is what sends everybody scurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, all that. Unknown is what is. Accept that it's unknown, and it's plain sailing. John Lennon
401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com <mailto:marilyn.oyler@gmail.com> www.partnersinparticipation.com <http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/>
On Sunday, April 13, 2025 at 04:45:14 PM MST, <w.schlesinger@pvida.net> wrote:
I think Bud says about the turn to the world, “In so doing they decided to emphasize Cultural Studies over Religious Studies”.
In my memory it had less to do with studies and more to do with strategy. Joe Mathews came back from a world church meeting that declined to confirm the Order Ecumenical as an entity. That and other dynamics led to a decision to shift from focusing on the local church as the change agent in history (a la HRN) to a direct facilitation method in the community, public and private sectors with LENS and then ICA Facilitation. Along with the Global Demonstration Projects and the ‘whistle points,’ the ICA became a strategic attempt to create a consensus based societal direction. Many of us took those methods and models into a variety of corporate, community and non-profit entities.
That in turn involved looking at the dynamics that created and sustained a context that was derived from RS-1 but expressed in non-theological language. Formal Christian language and symbolism had become a restricting dynamic in addressing and engaging a wider audience.
My take anyway. And apologies for the wordy rant in my previous response. I get that way sometimes.
FWIW
Bill Schlesinger
From: Dialogue <dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of James Wiegel via Dialogue Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2025 1:25 PM To: rev.bud@mac.com Cc: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Community <oe@wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] 2 questions about the other world in the midst of this world
SO . . .looks like no one has a recording of "The Mys'try is Everywhere" Would anyone be willing to SING it on zoom while I record?
SO . . . 2 people responded that we did indeed encounter / (re) discover /map the other world (the phenomena of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquility) in the midst of "this world".
ANYONE ELSE??
As to Bud's question, see below some interweaving.
<rev.bud@mac.com <mailto:rev.bud@mac.com>> wrote:
Let me be clearer, if I can, of what I’m asking, which is in reference to Jim Wiegel’s question: "Did we actually encounter/(re)discover the other world in the midst of this world (the realities of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquillity as present in our lives and world) or did we just say that?”
I’m aware of a lot concerning the beginnings of the Order. Jack Lewis hiring Joe Matthews <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/TmUQj4_wKtE?si%3Dra_czWIN1uUzTsv9&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw3b9nAx2XaeuxYkE9zU_v9k> to be an extraordinary lecturer for the Christian Faith and Life Community in Austin. The development of RSI around a Christian existentialism based on Bultmann, Tillich, and Bonhoeffer in the early 1950s. I think you should include H. Richard Niebuhr . . .
<image007.jpg>
<image008.png>
24 Joe Slicker Mathews Went Down to be with Jack Lewis
I’m aware of what we may call a ’turn to the church’ by part of the CFLC staff <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/wwSefTMgDH4?si%3Dvy28C99WlyVQNpme&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw3o5OMLgcdCp46vcrFUPkjC> with part of them going off to Chicago <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/uIutSynAQV0?si%3DllE6EueDZd8Vg-qi&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw0vO5ByIaAWp7rACbTdn2jG> in Easter 1962 to create E.I. <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/qsGecqvnQqs?si%3DdJsgi_uw6MPnQPu3&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw2Fu9bCwIhJHYKQajI49pyx>I’m aware of the ’turn to the world’ in the 1970s. In so doing they decided to emphasize Cultural Studies over Religious Studies.
<image009.jpg>
<image010.png>
41 Joe Slicker Let Me Tell You a Little About Evanston
<image011.jpg>
<image012.png>
42 Joe Slicker Who Went Up from Austin in that Truck%
<image013.jpg>
<image010.png>
31 Joe Slicker In '62 We Got Run out of Austin
This was not a discontinuation of dependence upon an existentialist theology. Though the Order shunned Gene Marshall, he did not shun the thought of Bultmann, Tillich, and Bonhoeffer. I reference his writings where he develops their thought (https://www.realisticliving.org/koob/GreatParagraphs/)
It is even clearer his continued reliance on existentialism in his lecture on Consciousness:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2d5zZB1e5A&t=403s)
But I lost contact with the Order and its thought basis after the ’turn to the world'. Was there further theological reflection beyond existentialism? If so, what form did it take?
I don't really know enough theology or philosophy in a formal or academic sense to answer your question. Here are some possibilities.
What about this little talk about "The Barefoot Jesus" <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://wedgeblade.net/gold_path/data/comd/100012.htm&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw3yq0bumSB7rYlIJuHCkTZ2>
Untitled
I also attach a paper attributed to John Epps "The Jesus Principle" that may be helpful.
Peace,
Bud
On 12 Apr 2025, at 16:34, James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com <mailto:jfwiegel@yahoo.com>> wrote:
Bud asked ( and Jim dodged) this question: "How is the claim of "encountering another world” related to the Gospel?"
Anyone??
I am still hoping for a recording of “The Mys’try is Everywhere”
Anyone?
Jim Wiegel
“…the long work of turning their lives into a celebration is not easy. Come and let us talk“.
The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver
On Apr 12, 2025, at 8:15 AM, rev.bud@mac.com <mailto:rev.bud@mac.com> wrote:
"How is the claim of "encountering another world” related to the Gospel?"
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you <image010.png><image009.jpg><image008.png><image007.jpg><image013.jpg><image012.png><image011.jpg>_______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
participants (6)
-
balmkevin＠gmail.com -
James Wiegel -
Jo Nelson -
Robertson Work -
Sharon Fisher -
w.schlesinger＠pvida.net