There is a memory gap in Archive Collection history between when Marshall saw the copy of JWM’s dissertation at Betty Pesek’s Memorial and when it was scanned by Mark in April and links created by Wendell. There are likely others who have bits and pieces of the history. And there are 150 file cabinets in the basement Archives room that may have more information. Although I ‘found’ the transcript in a gray box tucked away on top of the file cabinets after many cabinets had been moved and many files filed this past year, I don’t have a history to go with the finding. I am simply pleased that it will soon be accessible to those interested on the Archives Website. Peace, Karen

On May 13, 2019, at 8:51 PM, W. J. via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

I actually saw and touched (!) the typescript copy Marge had in the Archives at the time of Betty Pesek's memorial service, so I can vouch for the fact that there were zero burn marks on it. And no hint of smoke. As far as I could tell, that copy was not fake either. Maybe we could dust it for Joe's fingerprints. Or, far more likely, Lyn's. And there was no indication that what we have now was just a preliminary draft. As some of us know, there WAS a fire in the Carriage House at the original location of the Evanston Institute of Ecumenical Studies. And some stuff in storage got burned. Apparently not this copy. But maybe the story about being lost in a fire dates back to Joe's Austin days. Or before that in Dallas or Rochester. I wouldn't put it past him to wink and say, in effect, 'That's dead history.' Or possibly Joe and Lyn decided NOT to submit this revised/final draft after his dissertation committee rejected his earlier version. That's SO like him to say, 'I'm not gonna jump through that hoop again!' and risk another rejection. He WAS stubborn that way. And very proud of his research and writing and masterful teaching. So I would say, 'Good on ya, Joe. Got more important fish to fry!' I'm curious about what inspired the Archives team to 'resurrect' it in digital form. Comments? Marshall

On Monday, May 13, 2019, 8:51:56 PM EDT, Mari Crocker via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

Do we have any insight re: HRN’s rejection of JWM’s dissertation? Were there any notes from his dissertation committee? One prevailing story over many early years was that the text had been accidentally burned. Could you share how you accessed this copy?

Many thanks,

Dr. Marilyn R. Crocker

...

On May 2, 2019, at 9:10 PM, Wendell Refior via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:

Colleagues - We now have a digital copy of JWM's Dissertation on Wesley. A Study of John Wesley, turned in and rejected by Niebuhr and never rewritten or approved. Wendell Refior for the ICA Global Archives

Chapter 1: The Human Constitution https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21219.pdf <https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21219.pdf> Chapter 2: The Life of Love https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21220.pdf <https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21220.pdf> Chapter 3: The Knowledge of Faith https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21221.pdf <https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21221.pdf> Conclusion: Concluding Remarks https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21222.pdf <https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21222.pdf>

-- Thanks until later. "To believe what is true for you in your private heart is true for <everyone> -- that is genius." - Emerson in "Self-Reliance" Wendell _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net

_______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net> _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net

Here is a list of the original JWM file cabinets with list of all files sent to Wesley. There were 14 file cabinets full of documentation. Below lists everything. On very quick scan in Cabinet 1, Drawer C there are 2 theses entries Dissertation on Wesley Dissertation on Wesley - Shakelford https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/19438.pdf At one time Wesley contacted Marge and invited her to come and work on the files. She was not able to go. At one time the archives crew considered sending a team to work on making the files available. Did not happen. I imagine the boxes are stacked up and have never been opened. When the files were transfered, I think it was during a period of "ICA Unrest" and the family was concerned about their preservation. It would be wonderful if It a couple of people could go to Wesley, get time with the head librarian, and see the status of the files for "ourselves". On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 6:25 AM Nancy Trask via Dialogue < dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

I am curious about the possibility of various drafts in various stages of completion. Before Joe’s Archives were sent to the university, I was looking them over and handled what I thought was the final draft. As I recall, Betty and I were removing paper clips and such from the files. I was just there on an occasional brief visit to Chicago.

Nancy Trask 515-505-0456 nancy50273@centurylink.net

----- Original Message ----- From: Karen Snyder via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Karen Snyder <karen.snyder10@gmail.com> Sent: Tue, 14 May 2019 05:06:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Joe Mathews Dissertation on John Wesley

There is a memory gap in Archive Collection history between when Marshall saw the copy of JWM’s dissertation at Betty Pesek’s Memorial and when it was scanned by Mark in April and links created by Wendell. There are likely others who have bits and pieces of the history. And there are 150 file cabinets in the basement Archives room that may have more information.

Although I ‘found’ the transcript in a gray box tucked away on top of the file cabinets after many cabinets had been moved and many files filed this past year, I don’t have a history to go with the finding. I am simply pleased that it will soon be accessible to those interested on the Archives Website.

Peace, Karen

...

On May 13, 2019, at 8:51 PM, W. J. via Dialogue < dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

I actually saw and touched (!) the typescript copy Marge had in the Archives at the time of Betty Pesek's memorial service, so I can vouch for the fact that there were zero burn marks on it. And no hint of smoke. As far as I could tell, that copy was not fake either. Maybe we could dust it for Joe's fingerprints. Or, far more likely, Lyn's. And there was no indication that what we have now was just a preliminary draft. As some of us know, there WAS a fire in the Carriage House at the original location of the Evanston Institute of Ecumenical Studies. And some stuff in storage got burned. Apparently not this copy. But maybe the story about being lost in a fire dates back to Joe's Austin days. Or before that in Dallas or Rochester. I wouldn't put it past him to wink and say, in effect, 'That's dead history.' Or possibly Joe and Lyn decided NOT to submit this revised/final draft after his dissertation committee rejected his earlier version. That's SO like him to say, 'I'm not gonna jump through that hoop again!' and risk another rejection. He WAS stubborn that way. And very proud of his research and writing and masterful teaching. So I would say, 'Good on ya, Joe. Got more important fish to fry!' I'm curious about what inspired the Archives team to 'resurrect' it in digital form. Comments? Marshall

On Monday, May 13, 2019, 8:51:56 PM EDT, Mari Crocker via Dialogue < dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

Do we have any insight re: HRN’s rejection of JWM’s dissertation? Were there any notes from his dissertation committee? One prevailing story over many early years was that the text had been accidentally burned. Could you share how you accessed this copy?

Many thanks,

Dr. Marilyn R. Crocker

...

On May 2, 2019, at 9:10 PM, Wendell Refior via Dialogue < dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:

Colleagues - We now have a digital copy of JWM's Dissertation on Wesley. A Study of John Wesley, turned in and rejected by Niebuhr and never rewritten or approved. Wendell Refior for the ICA Global Archives

Chapter 1: The Human Constitution https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21219.pdf < https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21219.pdf> Chapter 2: The Life of Love https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21220.pdf < https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21220.pdf> Chapter 3: The Knowledge of Faith https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21221.pdf < https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21221.pdf> Conclusion: Concluding Remarks https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21222.pdf < https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21222.pdf>

-- Thanks until later. "To believe what is true for you in your private heart is true for <everyone> -- that is genius." - Emerson in "Self-Reliance" Wendell _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net

_______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net < http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net> _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net

_______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net

In my youth (1965) on the West Side, I was assigned to clean the offices on the first floor of Admin Building. I got in trouble because I read the dissertation instead of vacuuming. We were assigned minutes and had to sit in a chair doing nothing while an adult watched up. Paula On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 12:45 PM W. J. via Dialogue < dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

Yes, the copy Marge handed to me at the time of Betty's celebration was in that same gray box! Marge was VERY proud of this artifact and very watchful to make sure it didn't disappear (into some colleague's briefcase!). It was likely the only copy in the Archives, and to me it looked exactly like an original typescript. That means that our dear Betty had not sent it through a copier and left the copier version in the files. It also suggests that for some reason, Joe's dissertation is probably not in the JWM research collection in the basement of the library of Wesley Theological Seminary. So I would suggest that the Archives honchos might contact the Wesley librarian to insure that this document is available in the collection. Maybe some PhD student someday will write a dissertation on Mathews' dissertation and what happened to it at various times and places! After writing this I read Nancy's and Beret's comments. So maybe some version of the Wesley dissertation is in the basement at Wesley. There's been a huge faculty/staff turnover @ Wesley with retirements, etc. So there are very likely HUGE memory gaps, not to mention funding gaps, that I predict would result in ZERO archival work happening in their basement archives. At least there would be some kind of historical record of the acquisition. But it would be interesting to call up the research librarian and see what he or she says. Or maybe M. George Walters is up on this question. Marshall

On Tuesday, May 14, 2019, 5:07:04 AM EDT, Karen Snyder via Dialogue < dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

There is a memory gap in Archive Collection history between when Marshall saw the copy of JWM’s dissertation at Betty Pesek’s Memorial and when it was scanned by Mark in April and links created by Wendell. There are likely others who have bits and pieces of the history. And there are 150 file cabinets in the basement Archives room that may have more information.

Although I ‘found’ the transcript in a gray box tucked away on top of the file cabinets after many cabinets had been moved and many files filed this past year, I don’t have a history to go with the finding. I am simply pleased that it will soon be accessible to those interested on the Archives Website.

Peace, Karen

On May 13, 2019, at 8:51 PM, W. J. via Dialogue < dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

I actually saw and touched (!) the typescript copy Marge had in the Archives at the time of Betty Pesek's memorial service, so I can vouch for the fact that there were zero burn marks on it. And no hint of smoke. As far as I could tell, that copy was not fake either. Maybe we could dust it for Joe's fingerprints. Or, far more likely, Lyn's. And there was no indication that what we have now was just a preliminary draft. As some of us know, there WAS a fire in the Carriage House at the original location of the Evanston Institute of Ecumenical Studies. And some stuff in storage got burned. Apparently not this copy. But maybe the story about being lost in a fire dates back to Joe's Austin days. Or before that in Dallas or Rochester. I wouldn't put it past him to wink and say, in effect, 'That's dead history.' Or possibly Joe and Lyn decided NOT to submit this revised/final draft after his dissertation committee rejected his earlier version. That's SO like him to say, 'I'm not gonna jump through that hoop again!' and risk another rejection. He WAS stubborn that way. And very proud of his research and writing and masterful teaching. So I would say, 'Good on ya, Joe. Got more important fish to fry!' I'm curious about what inspired the Archives team to 'resurrect' it in digital form. Comments? Marshall

On Monday, May 13, 2019, 8:51:56 PM EDT, Mari Crocker via Dialogue < dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

Do we have any insight re: HRN’s rejection of JWM’s dissertation? Were there any notes from his dissertation committee? One prevailing story over many early years was that the text had been accidentally burned. Could you share how you accessed this copy?

Many thanks,

Dr. Marilyn R. Crocker

On May 2, 2019, at 9:10 PM, Wendell Refior via Dialogue < dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

Colleagues - We now have a digital copy of JWM's Dissertation on Wesley. A Study of John Wesley, turned in and rejected by Niebuhr and never rewritten or approved. Wendell Refior for the ICA Global Archives

Chapter 1: The Human Constitution https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21219.pdf Chapter 2: The Life of Love https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21220.pdf Chapter 3: The Knowledge of Faith https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21221.pdf Conclusion: Concluding Remarks https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21222.pdf

-- Thanks until later. "To believe what is true for you in your private heart is true for <everyone> -- that is genius." - Emerson in "Self-Reliance" Wendell _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net

_______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net

_______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net

-- Paula Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony. Mahatma Gandhi