This is great fun!! figuring out who is listening, responding, who gets a particular response!! I am not sure I have seen all the emails back and forth, and Jack sent the link below, but now I need his permission to see whatever he sent. I DID listen to the Ruby Sales interview that McCabe's sent (around calling a plumber). She takes this conversation into this century with comments about the role of "god talk" and old hymns and all as part of the voices in our heads that sound out and give guidance as we live our lives / land airplanes / respond to emails. Anyone else have a chance to listen? I was caught by her comments on intergenerational abandonment (-- Grits, Green Beans memoir; pictures of the generational gathering in Indiana this summer -- ) and also her comment about whether I see other white people as being worthy of redemption (not sure I got that right -- coffee is kicking in, I need to go eat breakfast) Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353623-363-3277jfwiegel@yahoo.comwww.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National ScheduleAICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: "McCabe, Diann A via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Jack Gilles <jackcgilles@gmail.com>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Richard <dick_alton@hotmail.com> Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 4:44 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Spong and Prayer #yiv6598821571 P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}Terry (McCabe) and I listened with deep attention to Ruby Sales yesterday on the radio broadcast, On Being. She has much to contribute to this conversation as well:http://www.onbeing.org/program/ruby-sales-where-does-it-hurt/8931 All the best, Diann McCabe, San Marcos, TX From: OE [oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] on behalf of Jack Gilles via OE [oe@lists.wedgeblade.net] Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2016 9:50 PM To: Richard; Tracy Longacre via OE Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Spong and Prayer Dear Colleagues, Below is what I sent to the list serve, but I found out that the attached file was too big to be included. So I made it into a Google.doc. Here is the link. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwPOc7ZRHtHzYXJyTGs5ZGdpYkE/view Jack I am a bit surprised by this string of emails on what we meant by the Two Story Universe being gone, and prayer. Here is a gift of the Archives of one of JWM’s talk to a group of churchmen at a conference on Christ in the City. Just listen and you will here all you need to know about why we said the two story universe is gone and what has taken it’s place. Enjoy! Jack On Sep 18, 2016, at 21:27, Richard via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Terry, great witness even though old...maybe we should all take our best witness and re-send it out. Although I am working on a new one called, " the magical garden"Dick Richard H.T. Alton 166 N. Humphrey Ave, Apt, 1N Oak Park, IL 60302 T:1.773.344.7172 richard.alton@gmail.com Don't let the fear of striking out hold you back Babe Ruth From: OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> on behalf of Terry Bergdall via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 1:50 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community Subject: [Oe List ...] Spong and Prayer The movie "Sully" opened in movie theaters around the US last week. I was interested to see it because of an "earthrise" witness that I wrote on prayer seven years ago. I was trying to illustrate the RS-1 practice of grounding religious language in life experience. Given this dialogue initiated by Susan in response to Bishop Spong, I thought I'd re-post it again here. See below: PRAYER AND CAPTAIN SULLY, 9 April 2009 I just returned home from a trip to New York. As is typical when flying from LaGuardia, we had a spectacular view of the city’s skyscrapers. This time my fascination was greater than usual as I found myself looking for the spot where, in January, a plane like mine crash-landed into the Hudson River. You probably heard about Captain Sully and his plane’s encounter with a flock of geese, how its engines stopped shortly after take-off, his quick review of options, and his management of a crash from which every one of the 150+ passengers survived. As I looked down on the same river, I was reminded of an interview I heard shortly after this occurred. Someone asked Captain Sully “Did you pray while this was happening?” “No,” he said, “but I imagine there were some in the back taking care of it for me while I did the flying.” I may be overly presumptuous but both the question and answer seem to be predicated on a popular image of prayer whereby one’s self is put in the fore seeking favors from a supernatural entity and, in this case, pleading for an escape from a life-threatening danger. I have no doubt that everyone on that plane was experiencing a prayerful moment, but genuine prayer is something far different from this counterfeit perception. Prayer means acknowledging and bowing my head to the sheer awesomeness of a prevailing mystery that is totally beyond myself. It is the mystery that I first recognized in the questions of my childhood -- why I am here? why must I die? what should I do? what is the purpose of life? I encounter unmitigated mystery precisely because these questions are ultimately unanswered. Genuine prayer allows us to grapple with the silence rather than fill the void. Prayer is standing before that reality (the name that we cannot know according to the ancient Israelites, i.e., “God”) and framing everyday actions, as well as responses to extreme circumstances, in a life-affirming comprehensive context. It is never an escape. “I don’t pray to change God,” C.S. Lewis is quoted as saying, “I pray to change myself.” Captain Sully’s actions make me think that he was in a very profound state of prayer as he landed that plane. He was intensely focused on acknowledging the real situation while bringing all of his experience and knowledge to bear, including extraordinary resources to remain calm in a moment of extreme crisis. Given popular perceptions, I can also appreciate his unwillingness to call it prayer. Which raises questions for me. Most of the time, topics of an overt religious nature, like prayer, never even come up in my daily encounters. When they do, it seems that about half of the people I meet are more-or-less content with the shallowness of popular religion while the other considers it to be totally irrelevant. This, of course, is a gross oversimplification and there is a lot of grey in between but it highlights a quandary. How do I authentically engage everyone, religious and secular alike, to celebrate and act upon both the possibilities of life and its overwhelming limits? It is even more complex when different religious traditions are thrown into the mix. No matter how much I work on resolving this, there is no simple answer. It is in wrestling with life’s questions that we make our prayers. Though he’d probably be surprised to hear it, I’m grateful today for Captain Sully calling me to mine. Amen. _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net