Rather delicious trialog, Paul. Thanks. I was delighted to hear Dawkins say he was an agnostic, not an atheist, to the laughter of many. Whatever he is, he has been thinking it all through seriously. Williams was definitive but open. The moderator, a philosopher, was less open. I watched and listened as I watched my Braves beat the Rays. That too was delicious as our first closer came in in the 8th inning, Braves ahead 2-0, with two Rays outs, then proceeded to hit the next two batters, loading the bases, followed by the next batter hitting a blistering grounder that hit a Rays runners and ended the 8th inning--and of course our closer finished off the 9th inning as always, remarkably, leaving the Braves in first place. Do inform us again, Paul, when they next debate, when they hopefully get to the heart of the matter of the evolution of the Earth community to deal with its future, and not just depend on Darwinian evolution and Godly intervention. John -----Original Message----- From: dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net [mailto:dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of PSchrijnen@aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 2:41 PM To: dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net Subject: Re: [Dialogue] The Grand Design I enjoyed the debate between Richard Dawkins and Rowan Williams on some of these questions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfQk4NfW7g0 Maybe it adds another dimension...? Paul In a message dated 20/05/2012 19:18:12 GMT Daylight Time, LAURELCG@aol.com writes: Jack, The Ground of Being that WAS before the big bang, and the Evolutionary Impulse (Becoming) that started the big bang, is what we've called God. (This I've gleaned from Andrew Cohen.) I agree it is all intelligent, but our tiny brains cannot begin to understand it. IT is the All, in the phrases, "All that is, is good." and "I am One with All That Is." Science is about grappling to understand it. Good scientists are usually in awe of what they're discovering. What else would keep someone looking in a microscope all day every day for years, or whatever laborious process is required in their discipline? Scientists like Bryan Swimme and men of faith like Thomas Berry sometimes collaborate to come up with inspired works, like The Universe Story. This is all just my humble opinion, as is the belief that the church, the cutting edge today, is the evolutionary spirituality movement. Jean Houston is a recognized leader of it and almost invariably ends her internet sessions with "These are the times, we are the people." From the great central valley of California, the center of the Universe, Jann In a message dated 5/20/2012 10:57:34 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, icabombay@igc.org writes: As to the "Grand Design", it is the contention of some that the creative process, that which underlies all, is inherently intelligent and that intelligence can be understood. _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net