Thanks for all the good comments on the purposes of the two listserves. I am going to opt for OE only. I like OE because I like to say in touch of my old colleagues, which Shelley Hahn correctly stated are more like family than colleagues. I also like to reflect on our common memory and experiences from OE days. I feel somewhat at a loss on all that went on through ICA since I left the Order in 1975 (after 8 years with the Order), but through these listserves, and various events I have attended since 2000 I have gained familiarity with that great work. In any event, if you want to reach me on the listserves send the message on the OE listserve. I proposed a grand project last time I wrote, and I'd like to pull it off the table. No need to refer back to it, just consider (from my side) these ideas. 1. I am coming to the conclusion that our work as a corporate body, as an Order, is done and cannot be revived. We were what we were and we did a lot and caused some damage. We were who we were. What I believe we can and should do is preserve the mystique and learning of that community for future generations. This has already happened through the archive project and the books that George and John and others have put out. Further there is a collection of stories about our lives and work. And we had the conference in Washington, DC. Jim Wiegel did the videos. Michael May is collecting wisdom stories. What I continue to be interested in is a compilation of essays on the key ideas that guided us. For example, "Comprehensive, intentional and futuric (and archaic)" "the indicative is the imperative" "contextual ethics" and so many more. I can see small essays on a number of concepts put together in collection as a book or books and online. I think some of these essays may have to include a critique of the concepts and some would need to discuss how their meaning might apply today. I suppose the essays would have to begin with what the concepts meant for us "at that time." I can't pass on my order experience to my sons but I would like for them to have the benefit of the understandings that guided us and still guide me in my thinking and work. On reflection though, I would also like for them to have some understanding of who we were as an order. My oldest son who left the order at two simply says, "My parents were in a cult." I can see another collection of essays on "the way we were." Though I think there were many weaknesses in who we were I also think we were a great thing, a great force for good, a creative advance. I would like to have my sons know about that too So I guess ideally I would like two books, one on the operating wisdoms of the Order/EI and the other on our stories of our life in the Order/EI (and if I am not mentioning ICA it is only because I left at that time but would want to include that part of the history as well). Now I can't stop because I had another thought. I would like for my sons to have some understanding of RS1 and how it relates to the Christian symbols. I can see a book titled "RS-1" I would be willing to be part of a team for collecting, editing and publishing these works. If we get these out, the ideas will be available for others to develop in the future. 2. The second proposal is simply an opening to individuals who would be interested in participating in the Ethics and Spirituality Initative for Sustainable Development and possibly developing a curriculum on the changes needed going forward, kind of a CS1 for our day. I'm not longer thinking of those as involving our remnant corporate body, but something that some of you may have an interest in. Here's a 3 minute video that gives you some introduction to this. http://youtu.be/tyh7clso0Kc I can send additional information to those who contact me about this. Now, for completeness, I have another thought. Any of you who have not done so who wish to receive the e-zine of my nonprofit, the Center for Ecozoic Societies, please let me know and I'll put you on the list. Herman -- __________________________________________________ Herman F. Greene 2516 Winningham Road Chapel Hill, NC 27516 919-942-4358 (ph & fax) hfgreenenc@gmail.com