Great dialogue John thank you for stimulating it. I can't keep up with all of it but I really am enjoying trying I agree with Dick Alton describing it all as a failure is limiting our understanding and choices Rob you keep expanding my thinking and perception of the systemic connections we are dealing with Jo’s comment on Authentic communication also resonates with my experience Jack your analysis of the connection the NRM and NSV I need to think about for a while. I was in Hong Kong last week and had several dialogues about how to hold the space for deeper exploration as a way to build common understanding. It requires not assuming a decision to be the result of the dialogue. it is like when we tell people in the ORID conversation Decisional Level does not have to be an action it can be a declaration of where we are now that this conversation was held. it can be deeper than agree to disagree - agree to hold the understanding of all parties as far as they have been able to articulate them so far. or using a different language Contradictions are present from self to the system - this is one of the tests in a contradictions workshop - when I name this do I see how I contribute? Then I always have the power to start the change because if I change my behavior/contribution the contradiction is weakened. I am heading into a dialogue this week with the IAF, ICA Asia Pacific and old colleagues from Malaysia I find this a great context for the exploration please keep the flow going With respect, Larry