[Oe List ...] ICE/ICA

Tue Oct 7 15:04:37 PDT 2025

A more serious response.  The law prohibits private individuals assaulting officers of the law at a different level than private individuals assaulting other private individuals.  However, the use of ‘unreasonable’ force by law officers also has a higher standard than that required of private persons.

Law enforcement officers are often held to a different standard for using force than ordinary citizens due to their professional duty to protect the public and enforce the law. This distinction arises from differences in legal protections, responsibility, training, and the circumstances under which they are authorized to use force. 

The "reasonable officer" standard vs. the "reasonable person" standard

When evaluating the use of force, courts apply different legal standards to police and citizens.

*        For citizens, the "reasonable person" standard is used, which assesses whether a typical individual would have reasonably feared for their life or safety and acted in self-defense.

*        For police officers, the standard is "objective reasonableness," judged from the perspective of a "reasonable officer on the scene". This standard accounts for the fact that officers must make split-second decisions in tense and rapidly evolving situations. The Supreme Court established this standard in the 1989 case Graham v. Connor.

That is why the death or injury of private persons caused by law enforcement officers finds a higher response.

From: OE <oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of Susan Fertig via OE
Sent: Tuesday, October 7, 2025 2:18 PM
To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Cc: Susan Fertig <sfertig at blueskytech.us>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] ICE/ICA

It is chaos, for sure. 

Did you read the many reports of frozen water bottles, spit, feces etc. being lobbed at ICE and police?

Susan

Susan Fertig-Dykes

And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought .  Isaiah 58:11

From: OE <oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net> > On Behalf Of Judi White via OE
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2025 12:23 PM
To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> >
Cc: Judi White <judiwhite070 at gmail.com <mailto:judiwhite070 at gmail.com> >
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] ICE/ICA

https://www.facebook.com/share/1Bj1roawFa/ <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.facebook.com/share/1Bj1roawFa/&source=gmail-imap&ust=1760473173000000&usg=AOvVaw39HIg7z8LN93VwCmZL0R-o> 

On Mon, Oct 6, 2025, 6:59 PM Susan Fertig via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> > wrote:

I can’t tell you how disappointed I am to read these words.

ICE “invading”????

“Portecting” the Kemper Bldg if “it” happens???

“Warrant” to be shown???

Our “security profile”???

You folks have really gone off the deep edge.

Susan

Susan Fertig-Dykes

And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought .  Isaiah 58:11

From: OE <oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net> > On Behalf Of Terry Bergdall via OE
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2025 6:42 PM
To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> >
Cc: Terry Bergdall <bergdall2 at gmail.com <mailto:bergdall2 at gmail.com> >
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] ICE/ICA

ICA has posted this sign (see attached) on the front doors at GreenRise and I understand ICA staff, especially receptionists who are present 24 hours in the lobby, have been prepared to respond in an appropriate and legal manner if ICE should appear. I leave it for others with an official position at ICA to elaborate beyond this. Lesley Showers is the CEO of ICA-USA, <lshowers at ica-usa.org <mailto:lshowers at ica-usa.org> >, if anyone should wish to contact her directly.

Terry Bergdall 

On Oct 5, 2025, at 15:40, W. J. via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> > wrote:
> What can we do to protect the Kemper Building/Greenrise whenever ICE decides to invade us?
> Just wondering what our security profile is.
> Marshall

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