[Oe List ...] Do Good Intentions Make Up for Collateral Damage?

Mon Jun 30 13:00:35 PDT 2025

Northfield clinic

On Mon, Jun 30, 2025, 9:00 AM Ed Feldmanis via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
wrote:

> Through the building. I realized they were angry and that they thought
> their parents dumped them. When I was assigned overseas with my three kids,
> I made the decision that they would never go into the student house. My
> wife had the opposite opinion and although I won, my wife never forgave me.
> I did not have the information that you shared. You have brought to mind my
> own journey and I realize how courageous you are. I see you as a person of
> high integrity.
>
> On Mon, Jun 30, 2025, 8:57 AM Ed Feldmanis <edfeldmanis at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I am saddened by your report, Shelly. I know you had to endure more than
>> any kid should. You needed to be protected but got thrown into harm's Way.
>> I have to say that many of us, me included, we're so busy in the day-to-day
>> work that we did not know what was going on. My first clue was listening to
>> some of the teenagers. Who were meandering
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 30, 2025, 8:34 AM Blase Sands via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you, Don!
>>>
>>> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* OE <oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net> on behalf of Don Bushman
>>> via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 29, 2025 6:10:05 PM
>>> *To:* Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
>>> *Cc:* Don Bushman <onedonbushman at gmail.com>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] Do Good Intentions Make Up for Collateral
>>> Damage?
>>>
>>>
>>> Shelley, thank you for speaking up. No one should have to endure what
>>> you experienced. I believe you.
>>>
>>> What you shared is a painful reminder of how abuse hides inside
>>> communities—even those built on service, spirit, and trust. For too long,
>>> many of us failed to see it. Or chose not to look closely. I was one of
>>> them.
>>>
>>> I used to think that because we prayed, planned, and cared deeply, we
>>> were immune to the failings of other institutions. We weren’t. And I didn’t
>>> ask the hard questions soon enough.
>>>
>>> I now see how essential it is to create real safety and accountability,
>>> not just good intentions. I can’t change the past, but I can listen more
>>> fully now—and speak more plainly when truth needs a witness.
>>>
>>> Your voice matters. I’m grateful you used it here.
>>>
>>> Don Bushman
>>>
>>> 828-292-9696
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 29, 2025 at 4:58 PM Mari Crocker via OE <
>>> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Shelley,
>>>
>>> OMG, I was stunned to read what you, at age 11, encountered at the hands
>>> of someone the Order had then assigned as First Prior.
>>>
>>> I just read David Marshall’s book from cover to cover, and deeply
>>> appreciated his honesty, his “author’s voice” as a youth.  But also
>>> appreciated his research grounding from archives documents that clearly
>>> would not have been available to him at that youthful time.
>>>
>>> For example, the 24 OE Operating Principles had not been “codified”
>>> until 1976 when the Global Panchayat , of which I was a member,  was
>>> charged by JWM to write the Polity Document.  And in that work, we sifted
>>> through our collective living experience to name those 24.  Who knows,
>>> there may have been more?
>>>
>>> What you put forth in your email is so very important for all of us who
>>> lived into this experiment with passion and intentionality to hear:  *this
>>> was not anywhere close to being acceptable.*
>>>
>>> I’m not sure where I was when you were 11, but I may have been in
>>> Singapore, birthing my twins, or doing ITIs in Ethiopia or HDTSs in India.
>>> But *I am horrified that you experienced that.*
>>>
>>> Yes, I need you to tell us more, because “secrets” seem to have been
>>> kept that even during our 2000 Reunion, were never put to rest.
>>>
>>> With love and respect,
>>>
>>> Marilyn
>>>
>>> On Jun 29, 2025, at 5:51 PM, Shelley Hahn via OE <
>>> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is an interesting intellectual,  hypothetical, philosophical
>>> discussion.
>>>
>>> If you want to hear from someone who was sent at age 11 to a religious
>>> house with a pedophile as a First Prior, DM me.
>>>
>>> Shelley Hahn
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 29, 2025, 2:28 PM Cheryl Hood via OE <
>>> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> What we should remember is that ALL forms of child-rearing are
>>> experimental. The real purpose of procreation is to produce the speciman
>>> who will survive and (hopefully) help the planet survive in the process.
>>>
>>> Do we think that the individualized personal preening and pruning that
>>> is currently in vogue will produce a better generation?
>>>
>>> I'm not rationalizing or excusing the results or the Order's Family
>>> experiment; just pointing out that, as an experiment, it was no further off
>>> the mark than many other popular theories today.
>>>
>>> And, that, yes, as Bill and Randy point out: Everything produces
>>> collateral damage.
>>>
>>> Cheryl Hood
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 28, 2025 at 2:27 PM Bill Schlesinger via OE <
>>> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> HRN described the social pioneering function of ‘church’ as the
>>> ‘sensitive and responsive part of every institution’ that repented when it
>>> became aware of innocent suffering, changed its own use, and leads society
>>> in the act of repentance.  That was the ‘radical demonstration of faith.’
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Discovering innocent suffering in our systems is a constant process.  I
>>> remember when one of us went into the data system we had at the time to
>>> replace all the male gender language in our songs.  We’ve discovered and
>>> turned our back on homophobia (JWM had a hard time with that one), and the
>>> treatment of children (ours and others) is no different.  It is a constant
>>> process.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have found ‘My Grandmother’s Hands’ (Thriftbooks if you don’t want
>>> Amazon) helpful on concrete ways of understanding and repenting of white
>>> supremacy privilege.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Metanoia – the Greek word we translate as ‘repentance’ – literally
>>> translates as ‘new mind.’  It isn’t being guilty or sorry.  It’s doing the
>>> change that HRN discusses.  It’s helpful to revisit damage done, but the
>>> ‘test’ is how it translates to change in valuing our children and
>>> developing and supporting ways to care for them that – inevitably – will be
>>> part of future discoveries of innocent suffering.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Carol and I talk with Don Bushman – a point of difference is my
>>> embracing of a really conservative theological concept – ‘TULIP.”  T –
>>> Total Depravity.  Everybody’s screwed up.  Deal with it.  U – Unconditional
>>> Election. No matter how screwed up we are, we’re still called to be
>>> responsible.  L- Limited Atonement.  Some people ‘get it.’  Some don’t.
>>> And you can’t tell the difference.  I – irresistible Grace.  We are all
>>> beloved.  P – Perseverance of the Saints.  Once you wake up, you can’t go
>>> back to sleep.  You can do a lot of damage to yourself and others, but you
>>> can’t go back to sleep.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> FWIW.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Randy Williams <randycw1938 at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, June 28, 2025 2:36 PM
>>> *To:* Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
>>> *Cc:* Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>; William
>>> Schlesinger <w.schlesinger at pvida.net>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] Do Good Intentions Make Up for Collateral
>>> Damage?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill, that’s a good question, and my answer is, probably not. So maybe
>>> the difference is whether the “thing” — organization, movement, community
>>> or whatever — acknowledges the collateral damage it causes, tries to stop
>>> it or at least minimize it, and then how it talks about, i.e., the story it
>>> tells about it, to itself and to others. And finally, how the story stacks
>>> up against the truth. If it doesn’t, then my guess is, the “thing” has some
>>> issues. Two examples I would use are the loss of credibility the Catholic
>>> Church has experienced over its denial of the sexual abuse, and the fact
>>> that the MAGA movement, if that’s what it is, is largely based on a lie and
>>> therefore has never had any credibility to lose outside its own adherents.
>>> What all this says about or has to do with the O:E, EI, ICA is something to
>>> ponder.
>>>
>>> Randy Williams
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 28, 2025, at 3:50 PM, William Schlesinger via OE <
>>> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Is there anything that doesn't do collateral damage?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill Schlesinger
>>>
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/3607+Rivera%0D%0A+Avenue+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+El+Paso,%0D%0A+TX+79905?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>
>>> Project Vida
>>>
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/3607+Rivera%0D%0A+Avenue+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+El+Paso,%0D%0A+TX+79905?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/3607+Rivera%0D%0A+Avenue+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+El+Paso,%0D%0A+TX+79905?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>
>>> 3607 Rivera Avenue
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/3607+Rivera+Avenue+El+Paso,+TX+79905?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>
>>> El Paso, TX 79905
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/3607+Rivera+Avenue+El+Paso,+TX+79905?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/3607+Rivera%0D%0A+Avenue+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+El+Paso,%0D%0A+TX+79905?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/3607+Rivera%0D%0A+Avenue+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+El+Paso,%0D%0A+TX+79905?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>
>>> (915) 490-6148 Cell
>>>
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/3607+Rivera%0D%0A+Avenue+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+El+Paso,%0D%0A+TX+79905?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 28, 2025, 1:42 PM David Marshall via OE <
>>> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Former Order: Ecumenical & Ecumencal Institute Colleagues,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Early IRON BOY readers (paperback & ebook published on Amazon on
>>> 6/15/25) have asked me about this. In response, I just published my CULTS
>>> article on Substack. I imagine this will rub some folks on both sides of
>>> the aisle the wrong way, but it's my truth. It's too long (five pages) to
>>> publish here or on Facebook, so if you read it and have comments, you can
>>> either do so on Substack or on this more private thread. Thank you.
>>>
>>> <Instagram-Cults-Image_6-28-25.jpg>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://open.substack.com/pub/marshallbooks/p/can-cults-still-do-good-work?r=23ftwm&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
>>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://open.substack.com/pub/marshallbooks/p/can-cults-still-do-good-work?r%3D23ftwm%26utm_campaign%3Dpost%26utm_medium%3Dweb%26showWelcomeOnShare%3Dfalse&source=gmail-imap&ust=1751747757000000&usg=AOvVaw2ZepQzQbodsFZtFsYBXhuV>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OE mailing list
>>> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net
>>> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
>>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net&source=gmail-imap&ust=1751747757000000&usg=AOvVaw0b0LGg7Xo4ek_ub-G1aLYm>
>>>
>>>
>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain
>>> confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged
>>> and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including
>>> the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are
>>> not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing,
>>> copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have
>>> received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by
>>> reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without
>>> reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OE mailing list
>>> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net
>>> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
>>>
>>>
>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain
>>> confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged
>>> and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including
>>> the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are
>>> not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing,
>>> copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have
>>> received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by
>>> reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without
>>> reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OE mailing list
>>> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net
>>> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OE mailing list
>>> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net
>>> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OE mailing list
>>> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net
>>> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OE mailing list
>>> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net
>>> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OE mailing list
>>> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net
>>> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
> OE mailing list
> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net
> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/pipermail/oe-wedgeblade.net/attachments/20250630/bc2263a0/attachment.htm>