[Oe List ...] Do Good Intentions Make Up for Collateral Damage?

Mon Jun 30 06:57:36 PDT 2025

I am saddened by your report, Shelly. I know you had to endure more than
any kid should. You needed to be protected but got thrown into harm's Way.
I have to say that many of us, me included, we're so busy in the day-to-day
work that we did not know what was going on. My first clue was listening to
some of the teenagers. Who were meandering

On Mon, Jun 30, 2025, 8:34 AM Blase Sands via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
wrote:

> Thank you, Don!
>
> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* OE <oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net> on behalf of Don Bushman via
> OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 29, 2025 6:10:05 PM
> *To:* Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> *Cc:* Don Bushman <onedonbushman at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] Do Good Intentions Make Up for Collateral
> Damage?
>
>
> Shelley, thank you for speaking up. No one should have to endure what you
> experienced. I believe you.
>
> What you shared is a painful reminder of how abuse hides inside
> communities—even those built on service, spirit, and trust. For too long,
> many of us failed to see it. Or chose not to look closely. I was one of
> them.
>
> I used to think that because we prayed, planned, and cared deeply, we were
> immune to the failings of other institutions. We weren’t. And I didn’t ask
> the hard questions soon enough.
>
> I now see how essential it is to create real safety and accountability,
> not just good intentions. I can’t change the past, but I can listen more
> fully now—and speak more plainly when truth needs a witness.
>
> Your voice matters. I’m grateful you used it here.
>
> Don Bushman
>
> 828-292-9696
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 29, 2025 at 4:58 PM Mari Crocker via OE <
> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
> Dear Shelley,
>
> OMG, I was stunned to read what you, at age 11, encountered at the hands
> of someone the Order had then assigned as First Prior.
>
> I just read David Marshall’s book from cover to cover, and deeply
> appreciated his honesty, his “author’s voice” as a youth.  But also
> appreciated his research grounding from archives documents that clearly
> would not have been available to him at that youthful time.
>
> For example, the 24 OE Operating Principles had not been “codified” until
> 1976 when the Global Panchayat , of which I was a member,  was charged by
> JWM to write the Polity Document.  And in that work, we sifted through our
> collective living experience to name those 24.  Who knows, there may have
> been more?
>
> What you put forth in your email is so very important for all of us who
> lived into this experiment with passion and intentionality to hear:  *this
> was not anywhere close to being acceptable.*
>
> I’m not sure where I was when you were 11, but I may have been in
> Singapore, birthing my twins, or doing ITIs in Ethiopia or HDTSs in India.
> But *I am horrified that you experienced that.*
>
> Yes, I need you to tell us more, because “secrets” seem to have been kept
> that even during our 2000 Reunion, were never put to rest.
>
> With love and respect,
>
> Marilyn
>
> On Jun 29, 2025, at 5:51 PM, Shelley Hahn via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> wrote:
>
> This is an interesting intellectual,  hypothetical, philosophical
> discussion.
>
> If you want to hear from someone who was sent at age 11 to a religious
> house with a pedophile as a First Prior, DM me.
>
> Shelley Hahn
>
> On Sun, Jun 29, 2025, 2:28 PM Cheryl Hood via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> wrote:
>
> What we should remember is that ALL forms of child-rearing are
> experimental. The real purpose of procreation is to produce the speciman
> who will survive and (hopefully) help the planet survive in the process.
>
> Do we think that the individualized personal preening and pruning that is
> currently in vogue will produce a better generation?
>
> I'm not rationalizing or excusing the results or the Order's Family
> experiment; just pointing out that, as an experiment, it was no further off
> the mark than many other popular theories today.
>
> And, that, yes, as Bill and Randy point out: Everything produces
> collateral damage.
>
> Cheryl Hood
>
> On Sat, Jun 28, 2025 at 2:27 PM Bill Schlesinger via OE <
> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
> HRN described the social pioneering function of ‘church’ as the ‘sensitive
> and responsive part of every institution’ that repented when it became
> aware of innocent suffering, changed its own use, and leads society in the
> act of repentance.  That was the ‘radical demonstration of faith.’
>
>
>
> Discovering innocent suffering in our systems is a constant process.  I
> remember when one of us went into the data system we had at the time to
> replace all the male gender language in our songs.  We’ve discovered and
> turned our back on homophobia (JWM had a hard time with that one), and the
> treatment of children (ours and others) is no different.  It is a constant
> process.
>
>
>
> I have found ‘My Grandmother’s Hands’ (Thriftbooks if you don’t want
> Amazon) helpful on concrete ways of understanding and repenting of white
> supremacy privilege.
>
>
>
> Metanoia – the Greek word we translate as ‘repentance’ – literally
> translates as ‘new mind.’  It isn’t being guilty or sorry.  It’s doing the
> change that HRN discusses.  It’s helpful to revisit damage done, but the
> ‘test’ is how it translates to change in valuing our children and
> developing and supporting ways to care for them that – inevitably – will be
> part of future discoveries of innocent suffering.
>
>
>
> Carol and I talk with Don Bushman – a point of difference is my embracing
> of a really conservative theological concept – ‘TULIP.”  T – Total
> Depravity.  Everybody’s screwed up.  Deal with it.  U – Unconditional
> Election. No matter how screwed up we are, we’re still called to be
> responsible.  L- Limited Atonement.  Some people ‘get it.’  Some don’t.
> And you can’t tell the difference.  I – irresistible Grace.  We are all
> beloved.  P – Perseverance of the Saints.  Once you wake up, you can’t go
> back to sleep.  You can do a lot of damage to yourself and others, but you
> can’t go back to sleep.
>
>
>
> FWIW.
>
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Randy Williams <randycw1938 at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, June 28, 2025 2:36 PM
> *To:* Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> *Cc:* Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>; William
> Schlesinger <w.schlesinger at pvida.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] Do Good Intentions Make Up for Collateral
> Damage?
>
>
>
> Bill, that’s a good question, and my answer is, probably not. So maybe the
> difference is whether the “thing” — organization, movement, community or
> whatever — acknowledges the collateral damage it causes, tries to stop it
> or at least minimize it, and then how it talks about, i.e., the story it
> tells about it, to itself and to others. And finally, how the story stacks
> up against the truth. If it doesn’t, then my guess is, the “thing” has some
> issues. Two examples I would use are the loss of credibility the Catholic
> Church has experienced over its denial of the sexual abuse, and the fact
> that the MAGA movement, if that’s what it is, is largely based on a lie and
> therefore has never had any credibility to lose outside its own adherents.
> What all this says about or has to do with the O:E, EI, ICA is something to
> ponder.
>
> Randy Williams
>
>
>
> On Jun 28, 2025, at 3:50 PM, William Schlesinger via OE <
> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Is there anything that doesn't do collateral damage?
>
>
>
> Bill Schlesinger
>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/3607+Rivera%0D%0A+Avenue+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+El+Paso,%0D%0A+TX+79905?entry=gmail&source=g>
>
> Project Vida
>
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>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/3607+Rivera%0D%0A+Avenue+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+El+Paso,%0D%0A+TX+79905?entry=gmail&source=g>
>
> 3607 Rivera Avenue
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>
> (915) 490-6148 Cell
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>
>
> On Sat, Jun 28, 2025, 1:42 PM David Marshall via OE <
> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
> Former Order: Ecumenical & Ecumencal Institute Colleagues,
>
>
>
> Early IRON BOY readers (paperback & ebook published on Amazon on 6/15/25)
> have asked me about this. In response, I just published my CULTS article on
> Substack. I imagine this will rub some folks on both sides of the aisle the
> wrong way, but it's my truth. It's too long (five pages) to publish here or
> on Facebook, so if you read it and have comments, you can either do so on
> Substack or on this more private thread. Thank you.
>
> <Instagram-Cults-Image_6-28-25.jpg>
>
>
>
>
> https://open.substack.com/pub/marshallbooks/p/can-cults-still-do-good-work?r=23ftwm&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://open.substack.com/pub/marshallbooks/p/can-cults-still-do-good-work?r%3D23ftwm%26utm_campaign%3Dpost%26utm_medium%3Dweb%26showWelcomeOnShare%3Dfalse&source=gmail-imap&ust=1751747757000000&usg=AOvVaw2ZepQzQbodsFZtFsYBXhuV>
>
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