[Oe List ...] bizarre

Tue Oct 29 13:35:51 PDT 2024

A further thought: If we extended the Question of GOD lecture-how would we
characterized each decade since the 50's? Would the time span be shorter
than 10 years?

828-292-9696

On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 2:32 PM Don Bushman <onedonbushman at gmail.com> wrote:

> I dare to suggest that the way transformation happens—often through an
> external event causing an existential crisis from which we try to escape—is
> writ large in our moment in history.
>
> There are some among us who suggest we are at a 500-year turning point,
> and new historical perspectives are either on the horizon or just over its
> edge. Such a change in the past has provoked massive resistance.
>
> The Pandora meme suggests that once opened, it can never be closed. We are
> now a global village—look at the existing global economic infrastructure. I
> believe what is happening with AI is the cultural infrastructure of this
> global village. The national alliances in the West, East, and South will
> force, in my humble opinion (IMHO), a global village political
> infrastructure. Maybe not in my lifetime, but it is coming.
>
> I long ago found developing nations' adoption of Marx somewhat paradoxical
> because Marx focused on industrialized nations' paths of development. I
> wonder who in the industrialized nations read and saw their demise in such
> development and promptly demonized Marx's insights.
>
> What exciting times we live in, and what incredible eyeglasses we have
> developed to taste the richness of life.
>
>
>
> 828-292-9696
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 1:37 PM James Wiegel via OE <
> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
>> Still??  I recall conversations with you and others as far back as 1968 …
>> Jim Wiegel
>>
>> “…the long work
>> of turning their lives
>> into a celebration
>> is not easy. Come and let us talk“.
>>
>> The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver
>>
>> On Oct 29, 2024, at 8:43 AM, Holcombe Wanda <wandah70 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I believe we are in a global cultural malaise and Believe it is in
>> someway as Marilyn shared:
>>  *a cultural backlash against global change that is perceived as both
>> virtually inevitable and threatening to the survival of their traditional
>> female gender identity** roles.*
>>
>> I also since it is also an emerging identity crisis for the male globally
>> also.  I don’t remember the figure but it was shared yesterday that 40,000
>> men committed suicide this year for various reasons.
>>
>> Whoever wins this election….I perceive it will be up to both the female
>> and male globally to create the new human being and global society.
>>
>> I hope to they have to be 100 to be a part of that and see what the new
>> human looks like an act like the new GLOBAL CITIZEN….
>> Wanda 💫✨🌟
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 29, 2024, at 9:43 AM, James Wiegel via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks
>> Jim Wiegel
>>
>> “…the long work
>> of turning their lives
>> into a celebration
>> is not easy. Come and let us talk“.
>>
>> The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver
>>
>> On Oct 29, 2024, at 3:42 AM, w.schlesinger at pvida.net wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> It’s hard to respond point by point to demonstrably false statements and
>> charges.  COVID was so much more destructive than it needed to have been –
>> largely due to Trump’s refusal to deal with the science and politicizing
>> responses.  The resistance to immunizations, use of masking (common in
>> other parts of the world) – well, you get the point.  Illusory claims of
>> ‘greatness’ are just that.
>>
>>
>>
>> We may see a Trump victory.  And we need to be prepared to stay at the
>> center, to understand that the order of things in the systems will continue
>> to be a process of persons seeking to create a ‘visionary dream’ – to quote
>> Bonhoeffer – and persons seeking to do what it caring and responsible.  And
>> this is true whether or not we see a Trump victory. We’ll have to work in
>> that world as we do now, with an understanding that we will not conquer by
>> destroying an enemy but by being who we are called to be.
>>
>>
>>
>> Personally, we’ve contributed, voted, and spoken as clearly as we can in
>> the networks and relationships we have.  But our ‘heroes’ aren’t the ones
>> who overthrew a tyranny.  Our ‘heroes’ are those who cared and sustained
>> even while marginalized and attacked.  ‘Lest Innocent Blood be Shed’ is an
>> account of a village that sheltered Jews in France – and did so while being
>> gentle with the Vichy forces.  That led to warnings before raids as even
>> those in the Vichy regime chose to care.
>>
>>
>>
>> Again, FWIW.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* James Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com>
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 28, 2024 8:35 PM
>> *To:* Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
>> *Cc:* w.schlesinger at pvida.net; Mari Crocker <maricrocker at gmail.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] bizarre
>>
>>
>>
>> Watching the world series, I am hit by ads similar to the post forwarded
>> by Susan — 3 1/2 years in office and things didn’t get done and now they
>> will —I dont know how to respond to that … help
>>
>> Jim Wiegel
>>
>> “…the long work
>> of turning their lives
>> into a celebration
>> is not easy. Come and let us talk“.
>>
>> The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 28, 2024, at 5:00 PM, Mari Crocker via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Amen!  Dear friend, Bill.  Thank you for this, and many other insightful
>> comments you have shared over the years.  Fond memories of the time Joe and
>> I spent with your family, way back, when you were discerning your call.
>> Fondly, Marilyn
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 28, 2024, at 7:22 PM, <w.schlesinger at pvida.net> <
>> w.schlesinger at pvida.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> The vice-presidential candidate studied Rene Girard’s work – and betrayed
>> it.  He’s taken mimetic desire (I want what I see others having) and
>> scapegoating (if we get rid of ‘them’ we’ll solve our problems, so let us
>> link arms and attack ‘them’) as recipes for victory instead of the driver
>> for and betrayal of innocent suffering that Girard describes.
>>
>>
>>
>> Trump creates the incredibly powerful tool that ended up crucifying Jesus
>> – and in so doing, disclosed the horror and emptiness of that for the
>> future.  And as has been seen, when one ‘they’ has been disposed, the tool
>> must find another – and turns on itself in a cannibalistic process of
>> eating its own.  Thus the ‘RINO’ charge.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rubbing raw the sores of discontent can lead to this kind of destruction
>> – and in an angry rejection of other values. Attacking it in kind only
>> strengthens the method. Unfortunately, innocent suffering is the only tool
>> that stops it – at cost.  Thus the nonviolence movements of Gandhi and MLK
>> Jr. and others…
>>
>>
>>
>> My two cents.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bill Schlesinger
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* OE <oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net> *On Behalf Of *Mari Crocker
>> via OE
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 28, 2024 5:06 PM
>> *To:* Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
>> *Cc:* Mari Crocker <maricrocker at gmail.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] bizarre
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi W.J and other colleagues
>>
>>
>>
>> I appreciate your analysis, and would add to your assessment of a
>> “cultural backlash against cultural change” and “the perpetuation of the
>> ancient archetype of female subservience,” the side-effects (like those of
>> a deleterious drug)  of "the abused woman syndrome".
>>
>>
>>
>> My sister typifies the abused woman, who continued to submit to abuse by
>> “staying in the marriage for the sake of the kids", and when she shook
>> loose of marital abuse, she submitted to abuse by her sons, who of course
>> learned from the role model of their father.  One son did it by direct
>> physical and emotional demeaning; the other by distancing himself
>> geographically and abdicating any “hands-on” support to his mother when she
>> was diagnosed with dementia, save for an occasional phone call.
>>
>>
>>
>> However, despite her dementia, my sister cast her absentee ballot for
>> Kamala.  Even with dementia she saw the light.
>>
>>
>>
>> Marilyn
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 28, 2024, at 5:45 PM, W. J. via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> We're in the closing days of the most bizarre U.S. election campaign in
>> my memory. According to Barack, N.C. Lt. Gov. Robinson, the Repugnant
>> candidate for governor, is a self-described "Black Nazi" who wants to bring
>> back slavery.
>>
>> I know that one's hard to beat!
>>
>> But it gets worse!
>>
>> Robinson will be defeated on November 5, rather than riding into the
>> governor's mansion on the coattails of Trump's predicted N.C. victory.
>>
>> But here's what's worse:
>>
>> Trump could narrowly win in the electoral college while losing the
>> popular vote.
>>
>> Or he could narrowly lose the election, refuse to concede, and contest
>> the election by casting doubt on its legitimacy and creating chaos in the
>> electoral college, throwing the election to the House of Representatives.
>>
>> The critical voter block that will guarantee either outcome are female
>> Trump voters, almost all of whom are white, and most of whom are not
>> college graduates and are predominantly postmenopausal.
>>
>> This raises what is for me a burning question: why would *any woman* vote
>> for Trump?
>>
>> And especially any woman who could conceive?
>>
>> Why would any woman not deeply understand that she is personally under
>> threat the second *any other woman* is personally under threat?
>>
>> As well as being a member of a large group that is now directly under
>> attack?
>>
>> I just don't get it.
>>
>> So, given the racial and gender gap in the American electorate, even if
>> *every* white male voted for Donald Trump, he would *have to lose* if
>> every female plus every person of color voted for Kamala. Right?
>>
>> Based on this logic, the reality that I just can't predict that Trump
>> will lose is deeply disturbing.
>>
>> So I've tried to plumb the mystery of why *any* female (including my
>> sister, who has voted for Trump twice before) would be determined to vote
>> for Trump despite all the indisputable evidence that electing Trump in 2024
>> would be disastrous.
>>
>> I think it comes down to this: *a cultural backlash against global
>> change that is perceived as both virtually inevitable and threatening to
>> the survival of their traditional female gender identity roles.*
>>
>> This perception of a diffuse but global threat to their sense of security
>> in their traditional sense of self can lead female Trump voters to
>> unconsciously self-destructive behavior, in that they can vote for Trump
>> while at the same hating him personally as the embodiment of a threatening
>> male dominance that they have had to put up with in their intimate familial
>> relationships.
>>
>> In short, females voting for Trump perpetuate the ancient archetype of
>> female subservience.
>>
>> In my humble opinion!
>>
>> So why are any female voters so profoundly stuck in this personal
>> dilemma? Of rebelling against the dominance of a male establishment by
>> voting for a fascist wanna-be dictator who exudes a shrunken and impotent
>> sense of male dominance while he attacks the American Constitution?
>>
>> Perhaps those of you who are female can see more deeply into this
>> contradiction than I can manage.
>>
>> The best I can suggest is to place this existential disturbance somewhere
>> in the area of "cultural impoverishment", and perhaps in the category of
>> being "spiritually vulnerable" to what we used to call "brainwashing". And
>> thus resistant to reality-based messages that contradict personal beliefs
>> that are determined by a myth system.
>>
>> I invite your responses.
>>
>> And if you're a registered voter, don't neglect to vote!
>>
>>
>>
>> Marshall
>>
>>
>>
>> Finally, I just can't get why any woman in our group would insist on
>> trashing Kamala. Yet here's what Susan Fertig posted on Facebook:
>>
>>
>>
>> <457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg>
>>
>>
>>
>> P.S. Maybe Trump thinks of the electoral college as another iteration of
>> Trump University! A scam he can manipulate to get what he wants.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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