[Oe List ...] bizarre

Don Bushman onedonbushman at gmail.com
Tue Oct 29 13:32:35 PDT 2024


I dare to suggest that the way transformation happens—often through an
external event causing an existential crisis from which we try to escape—is
writ large in our moment in history.

There are some among us who suggest we are at a 500-year turning point, and
new historical perspectives are either on the horizon or just over its
edge. Such a change in the past has provoked massive resistance.

The Pandora meme suggests that once opened, it can never be closed. We are
now a global village—look at the existing global economic infrastructure. I
believe what is happening with AI is the cultural infrastructure of this
global village. The national alliances in the West, East, and South will
force, in my humble opinion (IMHO), a global village political
infrastructure. Maybe not in my lifetime, but it is coming.

I long ago found developing nations' adoption of Marx somewhat paradoxical
because Marx focused on industrialized nations' paths of development. I
wonder who in the industrialized nations read and saw their demise in such
development and promptly demonized Marx's insights.

What exciting times we live in, and what incredible eyeglasses we have
developed to taste the richness of life.



828-292-9696



On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 1:37 PM James Wiegel via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
wrote:

> Still??  I recall conversations with you and others as far back as 1968 …
> Jim Wiegel
>
> “…the long work
> of turning their lives
> into a celebration
> is not easy. Come and let us talk“.
>
> The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver
>
> On Oct 29, 2024, at 8:43 AM, Holcombe Wanda <wandah70 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I believe we are in a global cultural malaise and Believe it is in
> someway as Marilyn shared:
>  *a cultural backlash against global change that is perceived as both
> virtually inevitable and threatening to the survival of their traditional
> female gender identity** roles.*
>
> I also since it is also an emerging identity crisis for the male globally
> also.  I don’t remember the figure but it was shared yesterday that 40,000
> men committed suicide this year for various reasons.
>
> Whoever wins this election….I perceive it will be up to both the female
> and male globally to create the new human being and global society.
>
> I hope to they have to be 100 to be a part of that and see what the new
> human looks like an act like the new GLOBAL CITIZEN….
> Wanda 💫✨🌟
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 29, 2024, at 9:43 AM, James Wiegel via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> wrote:
>
> Thanks
> Jim Wiegel
>
> “…the long work
> of turning their lives
> into a celebration
> is not easy. Come and let us talk“.
>
> The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver
>
> On Oct 29, 2024, at 3:42 AM, w.schlesinger at pvida.net wrote:
>
> 
>
> It’s hard to respond point by point to demonstrably false statements and
> charges.  COVID was so much more destructive than it needed to have been –
> largely due to Trump’s refusal to deal with the science and politicizing
> responses.  The resistance to immunizations, use of masking (common in
> other parts of the world) – well, you get the point.  Illusory claims of
> ‘greatness’ are just that.
>
>
>
> We may see a Trump victory.  And we need to be prepared to stay at the
> center, to understand that the order of things in the systems will continue
> to be a process of persons seeking to create a ‘visionary dream’ – to quote
> Bonhoeffer – and persons seeking to do what it caring and responsible.  And
> this is true whether or not we see a Trump victory. We’ll have to work in
> that world as we do now, with an understanding that we will not conquer by
> destroying an enemy but by being who we are called to be.
>
>
>
> Personally, we’ve contributed, voted, and spoken as clearly as we can in
> the networks and relationships we have.  But our ‘heroes’ aren’t the ones
> who overthrew a tyranny.  Our ‘heroes’ are those who cared and sustained
> even while marginalized and attacked.  ‘Lest Innocent Blood be Shed’ is an
> account of a village that sheltered Jews in France – and did so while being
> gentle with the Vichy forces.  That led to warnings before raids as even
> those in the Vichy regime chose to care.
>
>
>
> Again, FWIW.
>
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> *From:* James Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 28, 2024 8:35 PM
> *To:* Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> *Cc:* w.schlesinger at pvida.net; Mari Crocker <maricrocker at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] bizarre
>
>
>
> Watching the world series, I am hit by ads similar to the post forwarded
> by Susan — 3 1/2 years in office and things didn’t get done and now they
> will —I dont know how to respond to that … help
>
> Jim Wiegel
>
> “…the long work
> of turning their lives
> into a celebration
> is not easy. Come and let us talk“.
>
> The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver
>
>
>
> On Oct 28, 2024, at 5:00 PM, Mari Crocker via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> wrote:
>
> Amen!  Dear friend, Bill.  Thank you for this, and many other insightful
> comments you have shared over the years.  Fond memories of the time Joe and
> I spent with your family, way back, when you were discerning your call.
> Fondly, Marilyn
>
>
>
> On Oct 28, 2024, at 7:22 PM, <w.schlesinger at pvida.net> <
> w.schlesinger at pvida.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> The vice-presidential candidate studied Rene Girard’s work – and betrayed
> it.  He’s taken mimetic desire (I want what I see others having) and
> scapegoating (if we get rid of ‘them’ we’ll solve our problems, so let us
> link arms and attack ‘them’) as recipes for victory instead of the driver
> for and betrayal of innocent suffering that Girard describes.
>
>
>
> Trump creates the incredibly powerful tool that ended up crucifying Jesus
> – and in so doing, disclosed the horror and emptiness of that for the
> future.  And as has been seen, when one ‘they’ has been disposed, the tool
> must find another – and turns on itself in a cannibalistic process of
> eating its own.  Thus the ‘RINO’ charge.
>
>
>
> Rubbing raw the sores of discontent can lead to this kind of destruction –
> and in an angry rejection of other values. Attacking it in kind only
> strengthens the method. Unfortunately, innocent suffering is the only tool
> that stops it – at cost.  Thus the nonviolence movements of Gandhi and MLK
> Jr. and others…
>
>
>
> My two cents.
>
>
>
> Bill Schlesinger
>
>
>
> *From:* OE <oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net> *On Behalf Of *Mari Crocker
> via OE
> *Sent:* Monday, October 28, 2024 5:06 PM
> *To:* Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> *Cc:* Mari Crocker <maricrocker at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] bizarre
>
>
>
> Hi W.J and other colleagues
>
>
>
> I appreciate your analysis, and would add to your assessment of a
> “cultural backlash against cultural change” and “the perpetuation of the
> ancient archetype of female subservience,” the side-effects (like those of
> a deleterious drug)  of "the abused woman syndrome".
>
>
>
> My sister typifies the abused woman, who continued to submit to abuse by
> “staying in the marriage for the sake of the kids", and when she shook
> loose of marital abuse, she submitted to abuse by her sons, who of course
> learned from the role model of their father.  One son did it by direct
> physical and emotional demeaning; the other by distancing himself
> geographically and abdicating any “hands-on” support to his mother when she
> was diagnosed with dementia, save for an occasional phone call.
>
>
>
> However, despite her dementia, my sister cast her absentee ballot for
> Kamala.  Even with dementia she saw the light.
>
>
>
> Marilyn
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 28, 2024, at 5:45 PM, W. J. via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> We're in the closing days of the most bizarre U.S. election campaign in my
> memory. According to Barack, N.C. Lt. Gov. Robinson, the Repugnant
> candidate for governor, is a self-described "Black Nazi" who wants to bring
> back slavery.
>
> I know that one's hard to beat!
>
> But it gets worse!
>
> Robinson will be defeated on November 5, rather than riding into the
> governor's mansion on the coattails of Trump's predicted N.C. victory.
>
> But here's what's worse:
>
> Trump could narrowly win in the electoral college while losing the popular
> vote.
>
> Or he could narrowly lose the election, refuse to concede, and contest the
> election by casting doubt on its legitimacy and creating chaos in the
> electoral college, throwing the election to the House of Representatives.
>
> The critical voter block that will guarantee either outcome are female
> Trump voters, almost all of whom are white, and most of whom are not
> college graduates and are predominantly postmenopausal.
>
> This raises what is for me a burning question: why would *any woman* vote
> for Trump?
>
> And especially any woman who could conceive?
>
> Why would any woman not deeply understand that she is personally under
> threat the second *any other woman* is personally under threat?
>
> As well as being a member of a large group that is now directly under
> attack?
>
> I just don't get it.
>
> So, given the racial and gender gap in the American electorate, even if
> *every* white male voted for Donald Trump, he would *have to lose* if
> every female plus every person of color voted for Kamala. Right?
>
> Based on this logic, the reality that I just can't predict that Trump will
> lose is deeply disturbing.
>
> So I've tried to plumb the mystery of why *any* female (including my
> sister, who has voted for Trump twice before) would be determined to vote
> for Trump despite all the indisputable evidence that electing Trump in 2024
> would be disastrous.
>
> I think it comes down to this: *a cultural backlash against global change
> that is perceived as both virtually inevitable and threatening to the
> survival of their traditional female gender identity roles.*
>
> This perception of a diffuse but global threat to their sense of security
> in their traditional sense of self can lead female Trump voters to
> unconsciously self-destructive behavior, in that they can vote for Trump
> while at the same hating him personally as the embodiment of a threatening
> male dominance that they have had to put up with in their intimate familial
> relationships.
>
> In short, females voting for Trump perpetuate the ancient archetype of
> female subservience.
>
> In my humble opinion!
>
> So why are any female voters so profoundly stuck in this personal dilemma?
> Of rebelling against the dominance of a male establishment by voting for a
> fascist wanna-be dictator who exudes a shrunken and impotent sense of male
> dominance while he attacks the American Constitution?
>
> Perhaps those of you who are female can see more deeply into this
> contradiction than I can manage.
>
> The best I can suggest is to place this existential disturbance somewhere
> in the area of "cultural impoverishment", and perhaps in the category of
> being "spiritually vulnerable" to what we used to call "brainwashing". And
> thus resistant to reality-based messages that contradict personal beliefs
> that are determined by a myth system.
>
> I invite your responses.
>
> And if you're a registered voter, don't neglect to vote!
>
>
>
> Marshall
>
>
>
> Finally, I just can't get why any woman in our group would insist on
> trashing Kamala. Yet here's what Susan Fertig posted on Facebook:
>
>
>
> <457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg>
>
>
>
> P.S. Maybe Trump thinks of the electoral college as another iteration of
> Trump University! A scam he can manipulate to get what he wants.
>
>
>
>
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