[Oe List ...] bizarre

Tue Oct 29 03:42:35 PDT 2024

It’s hard to respond point by point to demonstrably false statements and charges.  COVID was so much more destructive than it needed to have been – largely due to Trump’s refusal to deal with the science and politicizing responses.  The resistance to immunizations, use of masking (common in other parts of the world) – well, you get the point.  Illusory claims of ‘greatness’ are just that.  

We may see a Trump victory.  And we need to be prepared to stay at the center, to understand that the order of things in the systems will continue to be a process of persons seeking to create a ‘visionary dream’ – to quote Bonhoeffer – and persons seeking to do what it caring and responsible.  And this is true whether or not we see a Trump victory. We’ll have to work in that world as we do now, with an understanding that we will not conquer by destroying an enemy but by being who we are called to be. 

Personally, we’ve contributed, voted, and spoken as clearly as we can in the networks and relationships we have.  But our ‘heroes’ aren’t the ones who overthrew a tyranny.  Our ‘heroes’ are those who cared and sustained even while marginalized and attacked.  ‘Lest Innocent Blood be Shed’ is an account of a village that sheltered Jews in France – and did so while being gentle with the Vichy forces.  That led to warnings before raids as even those in the Vichy regime chose to care.

Again, FWIW.

Bill

From: James Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com> 
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2024 8:35 PM
To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Cc: w.schlesinger at pvida.net; Mari Crocker <maricrocker at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] bizarre

Watching the world series, I am hit by ads similar to the post forwarded by Susan — 3 1/2 years in office and things didn’t get done and now they will —I dont know how to respond to that … help

Jim Wiegel

“…the long work
of turning their lives
into a celebration
is not easy. Come and let us talk“. 

The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver

On Oct 28, 2024, at 5:00 PM, Mari Crocker via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> > wrote:

Amen!  Dear friend, Bill.  Thank you for this, and many other insightful comments you have shared over the years.  Fond memories of the time Joe and I spent with your family, way back, when you were discerning your call. Fondly, Marilyn

On Oct 28, 2024, at 7:22 PM, <w.schlesinger at pvida.net <mailto:w.schlesinger at pvida.net> > <w.schlesinger at pvida.net <mailto:w.schlesinger at pvida.net> > wrote:

The vice-presidential candidate studied Rene Girard’s work – and betrayed it.  He’s taken mimetic desire (I want what I see others having) and scapegoating (if we get rid of ‘them’ we’ll solve our problems, so let us link arms and attack ‘them’) as recipes for victory instead of the driver for and betrayal of innocent suffering that Girard describes.  

Trump creates the incredibly powerful tool that ended up crucifying Jesus – and in so doing, disclosed the horror and emptiness of that for the future.  And as has been seen, when one ‘they’ has been disposed, the tool must find another – and turns on itself in a cannibalistic process of eating its own.  Thus the ‘RINO’ charge.

Rubbing raw the sores of discontent can lead to this kind of destruction – and in an angry rejection of other values. Attacking it in kind only strengthens the method. Unfortunately, innocent suffering is the only tool that stops it – at cost.  Thus the nonviolence movements of Gandhi and MLK Jr. and others…

My two cents.

Bill Schlesinger

From: OE < <mailto:oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net> oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of Mari Crocker via OE
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2024 5:06 PM
To: Order Ecumenical Community < <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Cc: Mari Crocker < <mailto:maricrocker at gmail.com> maricrocker at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] bizarre

Hi W.J and other colleagues

I appreciate your analysis, and would add to your assessment of a “cultural backlash against cultural change” and “the perpetuation of the ancient archetype of female subservience,” the side-effects (like those of a deleterious drug)  of "the abused woman syndrome".

My sister typifies the abused woman, who continued to submit to abuse by “staying in the marriage for the sake of the kids", and when she shook loose of marital abuse, she submitted to abuse by her sons, who of course learned from the role model of their father.  One son did it by direct physical and emotional demeaning; the other by distancing himself geographically and abdicating any “hands-on” support to his mother when she was diagnosed with dementia, save for an occasional phone call.

However, despite her dementia, my sister cast her absentee ballot for Kamala.  Even with dementia she saw the light.

Marilyn

On Oct 28, 2024, at 5:45 PM, W. J. via OE < <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

We're in the closing days of the most bizarre U.S. election campaign in my memory. According to Barack, N.C. Lt. Gov. Robinson, the Repugnant candidate for governor, is a self-described "Black Nazi" who wants to bring back slavery.

I know that one's hard to beat!

But it gets worse! 

Robinson will be defeated on November 5, rather than riding into the governor's mansion on the coattails of Trump's predicted N.C. victory.

But here's what's worse: 

Trump could narrowly win in the electoral college while losing the popular vote.

Or he could narrowly lose the election, refuse to concede, and contest the election by casting doubt on its legitimacy and creating chaos in the electoral college, throwing the election to the House of Representatives.

The critical voter block that will guarantee either outcome are female Trump voters, almost all of whom are white, and most of whom are not college graduates and are predominantly postmenopausal.

This raises what is for me a burning question: why would any woman vote for Trump?

And especially any woman who could conceive?

Why would any woman not deeply understand that she is personally under threat the second any other woman is personally under threat?

As well as being a member of a large group that is now directly under attack?

I just don't get it.

So, given the racial and gender gap in the American electorate, even if every white male voted for Donald Trump, he would have to lose if every female plus every person of color voted for Kamala. Right?

Based on this logic, the reality that I just can't predict that Trump will lose is deeply disturbing.

So I've tried to plumb the mystery of why any female (including my sister, who has voted for Trump twice before) would be determined to vote for Trump despite all the indisputable evidence that electing Trump in 2024 would be disastrous.

I think it comes down to this: a cultural backlash against global change that is perceived as both virtually inevitable and threatening to the survival of their traditional female gender identity roles. 

This perception of a diffuse but global threat to their sense of security in their traditional sense of self can lead female Trump voters to unconsciously self-destructive behavior, in that they can vote for Trump while at the same hating him personally as the embodiment of a threatening male dominance that they have had to put up with in their intimate familial relationships.

In short, females voting for Trump perpetuate the ancient archetype of female subservience.

In my humble opinion!

So why are any female voters so profoundly stuck in this personal dilemma? Of rebelling against the dominance of a male establishment by voting for a fascist wanna-be dictator who exudes a shrunken and impotent sense of male dominance while he attacks the American Constitution?

Perhaps those of you who are female can see more deeply into this contradiction than I can manage. 

The best I can suggest is to place this existential disturbance somewhere in the area of "cultural impoverishment", and perhaps in the category of being "spiritually vulnerable" to what we used to call "brainwashing". And thus resistant to reality-based messages that contradict personal beliefs that are determined by a myth system.

I invite your responses.

And if you're a registered voter, don't neglect to vote!

Marshall

Finally, I just can't get why any woman in our group would insist on trashing Kamala. Yet here's what Susan Fertig posted on Facebook:

<457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg>

P.S. Maybe Trump thinks of the electoral college as another iteration of Trump University! A scam he can manipulate to get what he wants.

<457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg>_______________________________________________
OE mailing list
 <mailto:OE at lists.wedgeblade.net> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net
 <https://www.google.com/url?q=http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net&source=gmail-imap&ust=1730774139000000&usg=AOvVaw0YbbLh1LlRexTn9X0qMwDL> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you

_______________________________________________
OE mailing list
OE at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE at lists.wedgeblade.net> 
http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net

-- 
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain 
confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged 
and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including 
the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are 
not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, 
copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have 
received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by 
reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without 
reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/pipermail/oe-wedgeblade.net/attachments/20241029/eb2d754e/attachment-0001.htm>