[Oe List ...] OE Digest, Vol 118, Issue 20
A.M. Noel
anthonymarianoel at gmail.com
Mon Jan 24 00:53:04 PST 2022
Dear Dharma,
Are you making some assumptions?
A.M. Noel
On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 12:58 AM Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE <
oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
> Hi Richard,
> Thanks for that response and the link to the website, which I intend to
> browse later. I too felt that our comments on Stoicism were intended, as
> you put it, “to close off escapes that people were trapped in and which
> prevented real living” and that in doing that, we may have given a wrong
> impression of schools such as the Stoics. It’s good to be able to now look
> back and appreciate what both we and those we castigated were after.
> The issue that got me interested in exploring these ideas is this: How do
> we talk about caring for the planet when it’s clear that the benefits of
> our action, if any, will come only after we and our children, and perhaps
> even our species are gone. How do we describe it in a way that inspires and
> not dishearten others.
> Regards
> Dharma
>
>
>
> On Monday, 24 January 2022, 10:46:44 am MYT, Richard and Maria Maguire via
> OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
>
> Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism
>
> Thanks Dharma for your question about the RS1 comments about stoicism.
> Yes, the RS1 comments about a number of things were in relation to how they
> were understood in our current culture. Besides "stoicism" another term
> was "meditation" (misunderstood as "navel gazing"). Maybe there were
> others. I also used to think that "stocism" was like the British "stiff
> upper lip" or the Australian "she'll be right". In the meantime I have
> learned that it appears to be about being an authentic human being in the
> situation you are in. People can learn a lot about stoicism and the
> stoics on this website for instance.
> https://www.holstee.com/blogs/mindful-matter/stoicism-101-everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-stoicism-stoic-philosophy-and-the-stoics.
>
>
> Another term in popular culture that RS1 did not talk about but could have
> was "epicurean", understood as seeking out the most desirable things for
> yourself. This was also a misunderstanding of the philosophy, which
> emphasised that the good life was being in commmunity and living on
> "enough", rather than luxury and consumption. I learned from a documentary
> by contemporary philosopher Alain de Boutton that an epicurean king in
> ancient Asia Minor put an inscription on the wall of the marketplace which
> is still visible. It went something like this, "Be aware that nothing you
> can buy here will give you happiness"
>
> I realize from things like these that we can have many more "ancient
> friends" than is generally realized.
>
> From the perspective of 60 years after my first encounter with RS1, I
> realize that the use of those terms and others back then was polemical,
> intended to close off escapes that people were trapped in and prevented
> real living of the life you have now.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Richard Maguire
>
>
>
> On 22/01/2022 6:40 am, oe-request at lists.wedgeblade.net wrote:
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Stoicism (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby)
> 2. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (James Wiegel)
> 3. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby)
> 4. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Milan Hamilton)
> 5. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Nancy Trask)
> 6. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Beret Griffith)
> 7. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Jim)
> 8. Re: [Dialogue] Stoicism (Diann McCabe)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 00:27:15 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby at yahoo.com> <dvinasithamby at yahoo.com>
> To: OE Listserve <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>, Dialogue List
> <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> Subject: [Oe List ...] Stoicism
> Message-ID: <1071180527.308516.1642724835413 at mail.yahoo.com> <1071180527.308516.1642724835413 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> I need help with an idea I?m trying to sort out. If you have the time and inclination, I would love to hear from you on the following:?
>
> Saying Yes to life and Stoicism. Stoicism seems to be understood as a relationship to life where you keep going on despite the odds. There is also an inuendo that this may not be humanly possible and that internal pressures will eventually cause the person to crash. What I want to know is, was that the Stoicism that Zeno founded or merely a degraded understanding? Why did we as an Order cast it in a negative light? What was our beef with it? Was it a reaction to the degraded form or were we looking at it in its original sense?
> regardsDharma
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 03:17:19 +0000 (UTC)
> From: James Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com> <jfwiegel at yahoo.com>
> To: "dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net" <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>,
> "oe at lists.wedgeblade.net" <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>, Karenbueno
> <karenbueno at aol.com> <karenbueno at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Stoicism
> Message-ID: <2130564282.888309.1642735039425 at mail.yahoo.com> <2130564282.888309.1642735039425 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Does anyone recall (have notes on) the lecture introductions from RS-1?? They were quick and insightful, and I don't find anything in our archives on them . . .?
> One intro, maybe on Saturday afternoon -- would have been an intro to the freedom lecture / section / holy spirit / life style was a series of little triangles . . .?
> Everyone lives out of some sense of their final reality What am I upagainst in life?? what is my situation?and they have "A word" that releases them -- gives me the capacity to liveand a life style that comes out of that
> Anyway, I think one of them was the final reality is bad, and the word was just survive, and the life style was the stoic
> I don't quite remember the other ones . . . and the one course I had on philosophy did not emphasize the stoics.
>
>
> Jim Wiegel ?
>
>
>
> Theunknown is what is.? And to be frightened of it is what sends everybodyscurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, allthat.? Unknown is what is.? Accept that it's unknown, and it's plainsailing.? ??John Lennon
>
>
>
> 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353
> 623-363-3277
> jfwiegel at yahoo.com
> www.partnersinparticipation.com
>
>
> On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 07:54:09 PM MST, Karenbueno via Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
> Stoic: I'm fine.?
> Me: Are you telling the truth?Stoic: Well, even if I hurt, what can I do.? I will just bear it.Me: Have you tried what the doctor advised?Stoic: Oh, I probably will soon.? Stop worrying about me.? I'm fine.
> Another day--Stoic: I don't see how we need to worry about climate change.? It will destroy us and the rest of life on the planet soon.Me: But shouldn't we do a few actions that might help.Stoic:? Oh, we are too far gone.? The oceans are rising, the ice is about gone.? We might as well just enjoy the life we have.Me: but what about our kids and grandkids and their kids?Stoic:? Look.? We are human.? The planet it too far gone.? We may as well just accept it.
> Another day--Stoic: Well, I think we have gone as far as we can to abolish racism in the United States.Me: I think there is still a lot of suffering from racism.? I think we should find some way to pay reparations.Stoic: You pay for it.? I have some other things I want to do with our money.
> Another day--Me: Did you hear about how the Wisconsin government is giving back some of their land to the Indians?Stoic: Oh for Pete Sake.? That war is long over, and we are getting along fine.
> Another day--Stoic: Listen to those shovels!? They are finishing my work!Me: No, honey, they are digging your grave.
> Another day--Me: They say that faith is belief in things not seen.Stoic: Ha.? Sounds pretty magic to me!Me: But if you trust that the creative power of God is in charge, you can have hope that the future is open, and we can act!Stoic: Naptime now.
>
>
> Karen Bueno
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> To: OE Listserve <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>; Dialogue List <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby at yahoo.com> <dvinasithamby at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Thu, Jan 20, 2022 5:27 pm
> Subject: [Dialogue] Stoicism
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> I need help with an idea I?m trying to sort out. If you have the time and inclination, I would love to hear from you on the following:?
>
> Saying Yes to life and Stoicism. Stoicism seems to be understood as a relationship to life where you keep going on despite the odds. There is also an inuendo that this may not be humanly possible and that internal pressures will eventually cause the person to crash. What I want to know is, was that the Stoicism that Zeno founded or merely a degraded understanding? Why did we as an Order cast it in a negative light? What was our beef with it? Was it a reaction to the degraded form or were we looking at it in its original sense?
> regardsDharma_______________________________________________
> Dialogue mailing listDialogue at lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
> _______________________________________________
> Dialogue mailing listDialogue at lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 06:20:15 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby at yahoo.com> <dvinasithamby at yahoo.com>
> To: "dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net" <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>,
> "oe at lists.wedgeblade.net" <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Stoicism
> Message-ID: <945319551.358776.1642746015855 at mail.yahoo.com> <945319551.358776.1642746015855 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Thanks everyone for your responses. Some of these touched on what is happening to our planet, which is also what triggered my question.?It is clear that we have pushed our biosphere over the tipping point into a trajectory that will bring mass extinctions, perhaps even that of our species, in its wake. Whatever we do cannot change this, at least till after several decades. So whatever good we do, we won?t be around to see its result.So the question for me is what does it mean to say Yes to life in this situation and to live out of that stance. To use a metaphor, if we are led to the gallows, can we approach it saying Yes to what our life has been and what is going happen? By ?can we?, I mean how do we generate the courage and spirit for this.?A related question, how do we tell others what is in store truthfully and yet not leave them without hope or drive??If we live like this, could it be described (in a positive way) as Stoicism? I remember we seemed to have reservations about thi
> s during our RS1 courses. But I?m not sure whether they were about the popular understanding of Stoicism, as Karen illustrates in her email, or something deeper in that philosophy.?
> Dharma
>
>
> On Friday, 21 January 2022, 11:17:28 am MYT, James Wiegel via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
> Does anyone recall (have notes on) the lecture introductions from RS-1?? They were quick and insightful, and I don't find anything in our archives on them . . .?
> One intro, maybe on Saturday afternoon -- would have been an intro to the freedom lecture / section / holy spirit / life style was a series of little triangles . . .?
> Everyone lives out of some sense of their final reality What am I upagainst in life?? what is my situation?and they have "A word" that releases them -- gives me the capacity to liveand a life style that comes out of that
> Anyway, I think one of them was the final reality is bad, and the word was just survive, and the life style was the stoic
> I don't quite remember the other ones . . . and the one course I had on philosophy did not emphasize the stoics.
>
>
> Jim Wiegel ?
>
>
>
> Theunknown is what is.? And to be frightened of it is what sends everybodyscurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, allthat.? Unknown is what is.? Accept that it's unknown, and it's plainsailing.? ??John Lennon
>
>
>
> 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353
> 623-363-3277
> jfwiegel at yahoo.com
> www.partnersinparticipation.com
>
>
> On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 07:54:09 PM MST, Karenbueno via Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
> Stoic: I'm fine.?
> Me: Are you telling the truth?Stoic: Well, even if I hurt, what can I do.? I will just bear it.Me: Have you tried what the doctor advised?Stoic: Oh, I probably will soon.? Stop worrying about me.? I'm fine.
> Another day--Stoic: I don't see how we need to worry about climate change.? It will destroy us and the rest of life on the planet soon.Me: But shouldn't we do a few actions that might help.Stoic:? Oh, we are too far gone.? The oceans are rising, the ice is about gone.? We might as well just enjoy the life we have.Me: but what about our kids and grandkids and their kids?Stoic:? Look.? We are human.? The planet it too far gone.? We may as well just accept it.
> Another day--Stoic: Well, I think we have gone as far as we can to abolish racism in the United States.Me: I think there is still a lot of suffering from racism.? I think we should find some way to pay reparations.Stoic: You pay for it.? I have some other things I want to do with our money.
> Another day--Me: Did you hear about how the Wisconsin government is giving back some of their land to the Indians?Stoic: Oh for Pete Sake.? That war is long over, and we are getting along fine.
> Another day--Stoic: Listen to those shovels!? They are finishing my work!Me: No, honey, they are digging your grave.
> Another day--Me: They say that faith is belief in things not seen.Stoic: Ha.? Sounds pretty magic to me!Me: But if you trust that the creative power of God is in charge, you can have hope that the future is open, and we can act!Stoic: Naptime now.
>
>
> Karen Bueno
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> To: OE Listserve <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>; Dialogue List <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby at yahoo.com> <dvinasithamby at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Thu, Jan 20, 2022 5:27 pm
> Subject: [Dialogue] Stoicism
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> I need help with an idea I?m trying to sort out. If you have the time and inclination, I would love to hear from you on the following:?
>
> Saying Yes to life and Stoicism. Stoicism seems to be understood as a relationship to life where you keep going on despite the odds. There is also an inuendo that this may not be humanly possible and that internal pressures will eventually cause the person to crash. What I want to know is, was that the Stoicism that Zeno founded or merely a degraded understanding? Why did we as an Order cast it in a negative light? What was our beef with it? Was it a reaction to the degraded form or were we looking at it in its original sense?
> regardsDharma_______________________________________________
> Dialogue mailing listDialogue at lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
> _______________________________________________
> Dialogue mailing listDialogue at lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
> _______________________________________________
> OE mailing listOE at lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 22:49:21 -0800
> From: Milan Hamilton <mellowmilan2 at gmail.com> <mellowmilan2 at gmail.com>
> To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> Cc: dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby
> <dvinasithamby at yahoo.com> <dvinasithamby at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Stoicism
> Message-ID: <A7F062F9-75A4-4A74-9016-FCE0A89EB48E at gmail.com> <A7F062F9-75A4-4A74-9016-FCE0A89EB48E at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I majored in philosophy also and especially Studied Kierkegaard with one of the preeminent American teachers of SK, But can?t say I got much beyond the surface until RS-1. I do think there was more depth to Stoicism as a philosophy than hearing the word elicits in our psyche. But as to offering a way into the question Dharma is raising, I would suggest reading Jem Bendell?s Deep Adaptation paper and if interested getting into the conversation on the Deep Adaptation Forum; secondly, Michael Dowd?s ?Post Doom? series of 78 fifty minute interviews on You Tube with all sorts of climate scientists and writers, as well as some of his own videos; third, check out Joanna Macy?s ?The Work that Reconnects.? These are some resources we have found helpful to avoid getting stuck in one or more of the philosophy rabbit holes,Stoicism being only one of them.
> Humbly, Milan H.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> On Jan 20, 2022, at 10:20 PM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
> ?
> Thanks everyone for your responses. Some of these touched on what is happening to our planet, which is also what triggered my question.
> It is clear that we have pushed our biosphere over the tipping point into a trajectory that will bring mass extinctions, perhaps even that of our species, in its wake. Whatever we do cannot change this, at least till after several decades. So whatever good we do, we won?t be around to see its result.
> So the question for me is what does it mean to say Yes to life in this situation and to live out of that stance. To use a metaphor, if we are led to the gallows, can we approach it saying Yes to what our life has been and what is going happen? By ?can we?, I mean how do we generate the courage and spirit for this.
> A related question, how do we tell others what is in store truthfully and yet not leave them without hope or drive?
> If we live like this, could it be described (in a positive way) as Stoicism? I remember we seemed to have reservations about this during our RS1 courses. But I?m not sure whether they were about the popular understanding of Stoicism, as Karen illustrates in her email, or something deeper in that philosophy.
>
> Dharma
>
>
>
> On Friday, 21 January 2022, 11:17:28 am MYT, James Wiegel via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone recall (have notes on) the lecture introductions from RS-1? They were quick and insightful, and I don't find anything in our archives on them . . .
>
> One intro, maybe on Saturday afternoon -- would have been an intro to the freedom lecture / section / holy spirit / life style was a series of little triangles . . .
>
> Everyone lives out of some sense of their final reality What am I upagainst in life? what is my situation?
> and they have "A word" that releases them -- gives me the capacity to live
> and a life style that comes out of that
>
> Anyway, I think one of them was the final reality is bad, and the word was just survive, and the life style was the stoic
>
> I don't quite remember the other ones . . . and the one course I had on philosophy did not emphasize the stoics.
>
>
>
> Jim Wiegel
> The unknown is what is. And to be frightened of it is what sends everybody scurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, all that. Unknown is what is. Accept that it's unknown, and it's plain sailing. John Lennon
>
> 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353
> 623-363-3277jfwiegel at yahoo.comwww.partnersinparticipation.com
>
>
> On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 07:54:09 PM MST, Karenbueno via Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
>
> Stoic: I'm fine.
> Me: Are you telling the truth?
> Stoic: Well, even if I hurt, what can I do. I will just bear it.
> Me: Have you tried what the doctor advised?
> Stoic: Oh, I probably will soon. Stop worrying about me. I'm fine.
>
> Another day--
> Stoic: I don't see how we need to worry about climate change. It will destroy us and the rest of life on the planet soon.
> Me: But shouldn't we do a few actions that might help.
> Stoic: Oh, we are too far gone. The oceans are rising, the ice is about gone. We might as well just enjoy the life we have.
> Me: but what about our kids and grandkids and their kids?
> Stoic: Look. We are human. The planet it too far gone. We may as well just accept it.
>
> Another day--
> Stoic: Well, I think we have gone as far as we can to abolish racism in the United States.
> Me: I think there is still a lot of suffering from racism. I think we should find some way to pay reparations.
> Stoic: You pay for it. I have some other things I want to do with our money.
>
> Another day--
> Me: Did you hear about how the Wisconsin government is giving back some of their land to the Indians?
> Stoic: Oh for Pete Sake. That war is long over, and we are getting along fine.
>
> Another day--
> Stoic: Listen to those shovels! They are finishing my work!
> Me: No, honey, they are digging your grave.
>
> Another day--
> Me: They say that faith is belief in things not seen.
> Stoic: Ha. Sounds pretty magic to me!
> Me: But if you trust that the creative power of God is in charge, you can have hope that the future is open, and we can act!
> Stoic: Naptime now.
>
>
>
> Karen Bueno
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> To: OE Listserve <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>; Dialogue List <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby at yahoo.com> <dvinasithamby at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Thu, Jan 20, 2022 5:27 pm
> Subject: [Dialogue] Stoicism
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> I need help with an idea I?m trying to sort out. If you have the time and inclination, I would love to hear from you on the following:
>
> Saying Yes to life and Stoicism. Stoicism seems to be understood as a relationship to life where you keep going on despite the odds. There is also an inuendo that this may not be humanly possible and that internal pressures will eventually cause the person to crash. What I want to know is, was that the Stoicism that Zeno founded or merely a degraded understanding? Why did we as an Order cast it in a negative light? What was our beef with it? Was it a reaction to the degraded form or were we looking at it in its original sense?
>
> regards
> Dharma
> _______________________________________________
> Dialogue mailing listDialogue at lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
> _______________________________________________
> Dialogue mailing listDialogue at lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
> _______________________________________________
> OE mailing listOE at lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
> _______________________________________________
> OE mailing listOE at lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 07:48:07 -0600
> From: Nancy Trask <nlt462 at gmail.com> <nlt462 at gmail.com>
> To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Stoicism
> Message-ID:
> <CAAsR2TE+jqzOe8c99QzS+NePB13fgd436jRnz__7UtHdTi_qEg at mail.gmail.com> <CAAsR2TE+jqzOe8c99QzS+NePB13fgd436jRnz__7UtHdTi_qEg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dharma and all, it?s a very timely push for deeper understanding ? so glad
> you raised this angle on the topic. Thanks also to Milan for sharing
> resources from Jim Bendell, Michael Dowd, and Joanna Macy. I will have a
> look. The YouTube series of 78 interviews sounds fascinating. And I had
> recently happened on a presentation about adaptation, which has stuck with
> me.
> Could consider starting a new study series on some of these resources.
> Nancy Trask
>
> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 12:49 AM Milan Hamilton via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
>
> I majored in philosophy also and especially Studied Kierkegaard with one
> of the preeminent American teachers of SK, But can?t say I got much beyond
> the surface until RS-1. I do think there was more depth to Stoicism as a
> philosophy than hearing the word elicits in our psyche. But as to offering
> a way into the question Dharma is raising, I would suggest reading Jem
> Bendell?s Deep Adaptation paper and if interested getting into the
> conversation on the Deep Adaptation Forum; secondly, Michael Dowd?s ?Post
> Doom? series of 78 fifty minute interviews on You Tube with all sorts of
> climate scientists and writers, as well as some of his own videos; third,
> check out Joanna Macy?s ?The Work that Reconnects.? These are some
> resources we have found helpful to avoid getting stuck in one or more of
> the philosophy rabbit holes,Stoicism being only one of them.
> Humbly, Milan H.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jan 20, 2022, at 10:20 PM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
> ?
>
> Thanks everyone for your responses. Some of these touched on what is
> happening to our planet, which is also what triggered my question.
> It is clear that we have pushed our biosphere over the tipping point into
> a trajectory that will bring mass extinctions, perhaps even that of our
> species, in its wake. Whatever we do cannot change this, at least till
> after several decades. So whatever good we do, we won?t be around to see
> its result.
> So the question for me is what does it mean to say Yes to life in this
> situation and to live out of that stance. To use a metaphor, if we are led
> to the gallows, can we approach it saying Yes to what our life has been and
> what is going happen? By ?can we?, I mean how do we generate the courage
> and spirit for this.
> A related question, how do we tell others what is in store truthfully and
> yet not leave them without hope or drive?
> If we live like this, could it be described (in a positive way) as
> Stoicism? I remember we seemed to have reservations about this during our
> RS1 courses. But I?m not sure whether they were about the popular
> understanding of Stoicism, as Karen illustrates in her email, or something
> deeper in that philosophy.
>
> Dharma
>
>
>
> On Friday, 21 January 2022, 11:17:28 am MYT, James Wiegel via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone recall (have notes on) the lecture introductions from RS-1?
> They were quick and insightful, and I don't find anything in our archives
> on them . . .
>
> One intro, maybe on Saturday afternoon -- would have been an intro to the
> freedom lecture / section / holy spirit / life style was a series of little
> triangles . . .
>
> Everyone lives out of some sense of their final reality What am I
> upagainst in life? what is my situation?
> and they have "A word" that releases them -- gives me the capacity to live
> and a life style that comes out of that
>
> Anyway, I think one of them was the final reality is bad, and the word was
> just survive, and the life style was the stoic
>
> I don't quite remember the other ones . . . and the one course I had on
> philosophy did not emphasize the stoics.
>
>
>
> Jim Wiegel <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=123> <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=123>
>
> The unknown is what is. And to be frightened of it is what sends
> everybody scurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love,
> hate, all that. Unknown is what is. Accept that it's unknown, and it's
> plain sailing. John Lennon
>
> 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353<https://www.google.com/maps/search/401+North+Beverly+Way,Tolleson,+Arizona+85353?entry=gmail&source=g> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/401+North+Beverly+Way,Tolleson,+Arizona+85353?entry=gmail&source=g>
>
> 623-363-3277
> jfwiegel at yahoo.com <marilyn.oyler at gmail.com> <marilyn.oyler at gmail.com>
> www.partnersinparticipation.com
>
>
> On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 07:54:09 PM MST, Karenbueno via Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
>
> Stoic: I'm fine.
> Me: Are you telling the truth?
> Stoic: Well, even if I hurt, what can I do. I will just bear it.
> Me: Have you tried what the doctor advised?
> Stoic: Oh, I probably will soon. Stop worrying about me. I'm fine.
>
> Another day--
> Stoic: I don't see how we need to worry about climate change. It will
> destroy us and the rest of life on the planet soon.
> Me: But shouldn't we do a few actions that might help.
> Stoic: Oh, we are too far gone. The oceans are rising, the ice is about
> gone. We might as well just enjoy the life we have.
> Me: but what about our kids and grandkids and their kids?
> Stoic: Look. We are human. The planet it too far gone. We may as well
> just accept it.
>
> Another day--
> Stoic: Well, I think we have gone as far as we can to abolish racism in
> the United States.
> Me: I think there is still a lot of suffering from racism. I think we
> should find some way to pay reparations.
> Stoic: You pay for it. I have some other things I want to do with our
> money.
>
> Another day--
> Me: Did you hear about how the Wisconsin government is giving back some of
> their land to the Indians?
> Stoic: Oh for Pete Sake. That war is long over, and we are getting along
> fine.
>
> Another day--
> Stoic: Listen to those shovels! They are finishing my work!
> Me: No, honey, they are digging your grave.
>
> Another day--
> Me: They say that faith is belief in things not seen.
> Stoic: Ha. Sounds pretty magic to me!
> Me: But if you trust that the creative power of God is in charge, you can
> have hope that the future is open, and we can act!
> Stoic: Naptime now.
>
>
>
> Karen Bueno
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> To: OE Listserve <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>; Dialogue List <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby at yahoo.com> <dvinasithamby at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Thu, Jan 20, 2022 5:27 pm
> Subject: [Dialogue] Stoicism
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> I need help with an idea I?m trying to sort out. If you have the time and
> inclination, I would love to hear from you on the following:
>
> Saying Yes to life and Stoicism. Stoicism seems to be understood as a
> relationship to life where you keep going on despite the odds. There is
> also an inuendo that this may not be humanly possible and that internal
> pressures will eventually cause the person to crash. What I want to know
> is, was that the Stoicism that Zeno founded or merely a degraded
> understanding? Why did we as an Order cast it in a negative light? What was
> our beef with it? Was it a reaction to the degraded form or were we looking
> at it in its original sense?
>
> regards
> Dharma
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