[Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Stoicism

Fri Jan 21 05:48:07 PST 2022

Dharma and all, it’s a very timely push for deeper understanding — so glad
you raised this angle on the topic.  Thanks also to Milan  for sharing
resources from Jim Bendell, Michael Dowd, and Joanna Macy.  I will have a
look.  The YouTube series of 78 interviews sounds fascinating.  And I had
recently happened on a presentation about adaptation, which has stuck with
me.
Could consider starting a new study series on some of these resources.
Nancy Trask

On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 12:49 AM Milan Hamilton via OE <
oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

> I majored in philosophy also and especially Studied Kierkegaard with one
> of the preeminent American teachers of SK, But can’t say I got much beyond
> the surface until RS-1. I do think there was more depth to Stoicism as a
> philosophy than hearing the word elicits in our psyche. But as to offering
> a way into the question Dharma is raising, I would suggest reading Jem
> Bendell’s Deep Adaptation paper and if interested getting into the
> conversation on the Deep Adaptation Forum; secondly, Michael Dowd’s “Post
> Doom” series of 78 fifty minute interviews on You Tube with all sorts of
> climate scientists and writers, as well as some of his own videos; third,
> check out Joanna Macy’s “The Work that Reconnects.” These are some
> resources we have found helpful to avoid getting stuck in one or more of
> the philosophy rabbit holes,Stoicism being only one of them.
> Humbly, Milan H.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jan 20, 2022, at 10:20 PM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE <
> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Thanks everyone for your responses. Some of these touched on what is
> happening to our planet, which is also what triggered my question.
> It is clear that we have pushed our biosphere over the tipping point into
> a trajectory that will bring mass extinctions, perhaps even that of our
> species, in its wake. Whatever we do cannot change this, at least till
> after several decades. So whatever good we do, we won’t be around to see
> its result.
> So the question for me is what does it mean to say Yes to life in this
> situation and to live out of that stance. To use a metaphor, if we are led
> to the gallows, can we approach it saying Yes to what our life has been and
> what is going happen? By “can we”, I mean how do we generate the courage
> and spirit for this.
> A related question, how do we tell others what is in store truthfully and
> yet not leave them without hope or drive?
> If we live like this, could it be described (in a positive way) as
> Stoicism? I remember we seemed to have reservations about this during our
> RS1 courses. But I’m not sure whether they were about the popular
> understanding of Stoicism, as Karen illustrates in her email, or something
> deeper in that philosophy.
>
> Dharma
>
>
>
> On Friday, 21 January 2022, 11:17:28 am MYT, James Wiegel via OE <
> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone recall (have notes on) the lecture introductions from RS-1?
> They were quick and insightful, and I don't find anything in our archives
> on them . . .
>
> One intro, maybe on Saturday afternoon -- would have been an intro to the
> freedom lecture / section / holy spirit / life style was a series of little
> triangles . . .
>
> Everyone lives out of some sense of their final reality What am I
> upagainst in life?  what is my situation?
> and they have "A word" that releases them -- gives me the capacity to live
> and a life style that comes out of that
>
> Anyway, I think one of them was the final reality is bad, and the word was
> just survive, and the life style was the stoic
>
> I don't quite remember the other ones . . . and the one course I had on
> philosophy did not emphasize the stoics.
>
>
>
> Jim Wiegel <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=123>
>
> The unknown is what is.  And to be frightened of it is what sends
> everybody scurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love,
> hate, all that.  Unknown is what is.  Accept that it's unknown, and it's
> plain sailing.    John Lennon
>
> 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/401+North+Beverly+Way,Tolleson,+Arizona+85353?entry=gmail&source=g>
>
> 623-363-3277
>
> jfwiegel at yahoo.com <marilyn.oyler at gmail.com>
>
> www.partnersinparticipation.com
>
>
> On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 07:54:09 PM MST, Karenbueno via Dialogue <
> dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
>
> Stoic: I'm fine.
> Me: Are you telling the truth?
> Stoic: Well, even if I hurt, what can I do.  I will just bear it.
> Me: Have you tried what the doctor advised?
> Stoic: Oh, I probably will soon.  Stop worrying about me.  I'm fine.
>
> Another day--
> Stoic: I don't see how we need to worry about climate change.  It will
> destroy us and the rest of life on the planet soon.
> Me: But shouldn't we do a few actions that might help.
> Stoic:  Oh, we are too far gone.  The oceans are rising, the ice is about
> gone.  We might as well just enjoy the life we have.
> Me: but what about our kids and grandkids and their kids?
> Stoic:  Look.  We are human.  The planet it too far gone.  We may as well
> just accept it.
>
> Another day--
> Stoic: Well, I think we have gone as far as we can to abolish racism in
> the United States.
> Me: I think there is still a lot of suffering from racism.  I think we
> should find some way to pay reparations.
> Stoic: You pay for it.  I have some other things I want to do with our
> money.
>
> Another day--
> Me: Did you hear about how the Wisconsin government is giving back some of
> their land to the Indians?
> Stoic: Oh for Pete Sake.  That war is long over, and we are getting along
> fine.
>
> Another day--
> Stoic: Listen to those shovels!  They are finishing my work!
> Me: No, honey, they are digging your grave.
>
> Another day--
> Me: They say that faith is belief in things not seen.
> Stoic: Ha.  Sounds pretty magic to me!
> Me: But if you trust that the creative power of God is in charge, you can
> have hope that the future is open, and we can act!
> Stoic: Naptime now.
>
>
>
> Karen Bueno
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via Dialogue <
> dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> To: OE Listserve <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>; Dialogue List <
> dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Thu, Jan 20, 2022 5:27 pm
> Subject: [Dialogue] Stoicism
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> I need help with an idea I’m trying to sort out. If you have the time and
> inclination, I would love to hear from you on the following:
>
> Saying Yes to life and Stoicism. Stoicism seems to be understood as a
> relationship to life where you keep going on despite the odds. There is
> also an inuendo that this may not be humanly possible and that internal
> pressures will eventually cause the person to crash. What I want to know
> is, was that the Stoicism that Zeno founded or merely a degraded
> understanding? Why did we as an Order cast it in a negative light? What was
> our beef with it? Was it a reaction to the degraded form or were we looking
> at it in its original sense?
>
> regards
> Dharma
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