<div dir="auto">Dharma and all, it’s a very timely push for deeper understanding — so glad you raised this angle on the topic. Thanks also to Milan for sharing resources from Jim Bendell, Michael Dowd, and Joanna Macy. I will have a look. The YouTube series of 78 interviews sounds fascinating. And I had recently happened on a presentation about adaptation, which has stuck with me.</div><div dir="auto">Could consider starting a new study series on some of these resources.</div><div dir="auto">Nancy Trask</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 12:49 AM Milan Hamilton via OE <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">I majored in philosophy also and especially Studied Kierkegaard with one of the preeminent American teachers of SK, But can’t say I got much beyond the surface until RS-1. I do think there was more depth to Stoicism as a philosophy than hearing the word elicits in our psyche. But as to offering a way into the question Dharma is raising, I would suggest reading Jem Bendell’s Deep Adaptation paper and if interested getting into the conversation on the Deep Adaptation Forum; secondly, Michael Dowd’s “Post Doom” series of 78 fifty minute interviews on You Tube with all sorts of climate scientists and writers, as well as some of his own videos; third, check out Joanna Macy’s “The Work that Reconnects.” These are some resources we have found helpful to avoid getting stuck in one or more of the philosophy rabbit holes,Stoicism being only one of them.<div>Humbly, Milan H.<br><div><br><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPad</div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Jan 20, 2022, at 10:20 PM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div dir="auto"><div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div></div>
<div dir="ltr"><div><div>Thanks everyone for your responses. Some of these touched on what is happening to our planet, which is also what triggered my question. </div><div>It is clear that we have pushed our biosphere over the tipping point into a trajectory that will bring mass extinctions, perhaps even that of our species, in its wake. Whatever we do cannot change this, at least till after several decades. So whatever good we do, we won’t be around to see its result.</div><div>So the question for me is what does it mean to say Yes to life in this situation and to live out of that stance. To use a metaphor, if we are led to the gallows, can we approach it saying Yes to what our life has been and what is going happen? By “can we”, I mean how do we generate the courage and spirit for this. </div><div>A related question, how do we tell others what is in store truthfully and yet not leave them without hope or drive? </div><div>If we live like this, could it be described (in a positive way) as Stoicism? I remember we seemed to have reservations about this during our RS1 courses. But I’m not sure whether they were about the popular understanding of Stoicism, as Karen illustrates in her email, or something deeper in that philosophy. </div><div><br></div><div dir="ltr">Dharma</div><div><br></div></div><br></div><div><br></div>
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On Friday, 21 January 2022, 11:17:28 am MYT, James Wiegel via OE <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>> wrote:
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<div><div id="m_5583948939017479295ydp161d0735yiv1047450608"><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div><div dir="ltr">Does anyone recall (have notes on) the lecture introductions from RS-1? They were quick and insightful, and I don't find anything in our archives on them . . . </div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">One intro, maybe on Saturday afternoon -- would have been an intro to the freedom lecture / section / holy spirit / life style was a series of little triangles . . . </div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">Everyone lives out of some sense of their final reality What am I upagainst in life? what is my situation?</div><div dir="ltr">and they have "A word" that releases them -- gives me the capacity to live</div><div dir="ltr">and a life style that comes out of that</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">Anyway, I think one of them was the final reality is bad, and the word was just survive, and the life style was the stoic</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">I don't quite remember the other ones . . . and the one course I had on philosophy did not emphasize the stoics.</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><a shape="rect" href="http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=123" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Jim Wiegel</a> <br clear="none"><p dir="ltr" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"> </p><div> <span></span><p style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span>The
unknown is what is. And to be frightened of it is what sends everybody
scurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, all
that. Unknown is what is. Accept that it's unknown, and it's plain
sailing. <span> </span>John Lennon</span></p><br clear="none"></div><p></p><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;background-color:white"><a href="https://www.google.com/maps/search/401+North+Beverly+Way,Tolleson,+Arizona+85353?entry=gmail&source=g">401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353</a></span><p style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">623-363-3277</span><span style="font-size:14.5pt;font-family:'Segoe UI',sans-serif"></span></p><p style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:14.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:marilyn.oyler@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><span style="color:blue">jfwiegel@yahoo.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:14.5pt;font-family:'Segoe UI',sans-serif"></span></p><p style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:14.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:blue"><a shape="rect" href="http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.partnersinparticipation.com</a></span></span></p></div></div></div>
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On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 07:54:09 PM MST, Karenbueno via Dialogue <<a href="mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>> wrote:
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<div> S<font size="2">toic: I'm fine. <br clear="none">
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<div><font size="2">Me: Are you telling the truth?</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Stoic: Well, even if I hurt, what can I do. I will just bear it.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Me: Have you tried what the doctor advised?</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Stoic: Oh, I probably will soon. Stop worrying about me. I'm fine.</font></div>
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<div><font size="2">Another day--</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Stoic: I don't see how we need to worry about climate change. It will destroy us and the rest of life on the planet soon.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Me: But shouldn't we do a few actions that might help.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Stoic: Oh, we are too far gone. The oceans are rising, the ice is about gone. We might as well just enjoy the life we have.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Me: but what about our kids and grandkids and their kids?</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Stoic: Look. We are human. The planet it too far gone. We may as well just accept it.</font></div>
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<div><font size="2">Another day--</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Stoic: Well, I think we have gone as far as we can to abolish racism in the United States.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Me: I think there is still a lot of suffering from racism. I think we should find some way to pay reparations.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Stoic: You pay for it. I have some other things I want to do with our money.</font></div>
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<div><font size="2">Another day--</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Me: Did you hear about how the Wisconsin government is giving back some of their land to the Indians?</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Stoic: Oh for Pete Sake. That war is long over, and we are getting along fine.</font></div>
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<div><font size="2">Another day--</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Stoic: Listen to those shovels! They are finishing my work!</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Me: No, honey, they are digging your grave.</font></div>
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<div><font size="2">Another day--</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Me: They say that faith is belief in things not seen.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Stoic: Ha. Sounds pretty magic to me!</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Me: But if you trust that the creative power of God is in charge, you can have hope that the future is open, and we can act!</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Stoic: Naptime now.</font></div>
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<div><font size="2">Karen Bueno</font><br clear="none">
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black"><font size="2">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via Dialogue <<a href="mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>><br clear="none">
To: OE Listserve <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>>; Dialogue List <<a href="mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>><br clear="none">
Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <<a href="mailto:dvinasithamby@yahoo.com" target="_blank">dvinasithamby@yahoo.com</a>><br clear="none">
Sent: Thu, Jan 20, 2022 5:27 pm<br clear="none">
Subject: [Dialogue] Stoicism<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Dear colleagues,<br clear="none">
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<div>I need help with an idea I’m trying to sort out. If you have the time and inclination, I would love to hear from you on the following: <br clear="none">
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<div>Saying Yes to life and Stoicism. Stoicism seems to be understood as a relationship to life where you keep going on despite the odds. There is also an inuendo that this may not be humanly possible and that internal pressures will eventually cause the person to crash. What I want to know is, was that the Stoicism that Zeno founded or merely a degraded understanding? Why did we as an Order cast it in a negative light? What was our beef with it? Was it a reaction to the degraded form or were we looking at it in its original sense?</div>
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regards</div>
<div dir="ltr">Dharma</div>
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