[Oe List ...] Some reflections from Shadow Rock Church -- one ofthe founders was interviewed recently

Wed Feb 6 11:57:52 PST 2019

Beret, I get a lot of free samples of books off Amazon. For reading it on your kindle, or, in my case, on my Kindle for Mac, go to
https://www.amazon.com/Integral-Church-Handbook-Spiritual-Communities-ebook/dp/B07CH9C81T/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1549482753&sr=1-1&keywords=integral+church%2C+a+handbook <https://www.amazon.com/Integral-Church-Handbook-Spiritual-Communities-ebook/dp/B07CH9C81T/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1549482753&sr=1-1&keywords=integral+church,+a+handbook>
and scroll down the right side to where it offers the free sample. Reading the sample saves me from books that aren’t what they looked like!

Bud

> On 6 Feb 2019, at 11:49 am, Beret Griffith via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
> 
> I recently saw a book on Amazon, Integral Church, A Handbook for New Spiritual Communities, by Joran Slane Oppelt - 2014, revised 2018. Haven't looked at it.
> 
> https://progressivechristianity.org/resources/integral-church-a-handbook-for-new-spiritual-communities/ <https://progressivechristianity.org/resources/integral-church-a-handbook-for-new-spiritual-communities/>
> 
> https://integrallife.com/six-varieties-christians-and-their-churches/ <https://integrallife.com/six-varieties-christians-and-their-churches/>
> Long article. Quick scan.
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Feb 6, 2019 at 12:35 PM H. A. Tillinghast via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
> An additional book I would add to my earlier four suggestions is written by an author that David Marshall’s B-K house publish. The best book, as far as I am concerned, that David Korten has written is his “The Great Turning: from Empire to Earth Community”. 
> 
> "My intention in writing The Great Turning: From Empire to Earth Community is to provide a historically grounded frame for understanding the possibilities of the unique time in which we live and thereby enable able us to envision the path to a new era. Failing such understanding, we will continue to squander valuable time and resources on futile efforts to preserve or mend the cultures and institutions of a system that cannot be fixed and must be replaced".  321-324
> 
> Empire: "Note that throughout The Great Turning I use the term Empire with a capital E as a label for the hierarchical ordering of human relationships based on the principle of domination.” His contention is that some empire form has been present for the last 5000 years of human history to the present.
> 
> Earth Community: "Similarly, I use the term Earth Community as a label for the egalitarian democratic ordering of relationships based on the principle of partnership.” This is ‘church’ for Korten. He seems to lack theological perception. However, his description of the problem is worth studying. For his focus on empire correlates with the new biblical studies of the last quarter century. Where he differs is in his prescription. McLaren’s Everything must Change sees the 1/3rd of the human race which belongs to some Christian community as the base for a new movement to stop the ‘suicide machine’ as he calls the contemporary form of empire. Jesus must be repossessed as the leader of Movement over against its perversion by the empire take-over. Sort of like JWM’s “She may be a whore, but she’s our mother.”
> 
> Bud
> https://subversivechurch.blog/blogs/ <https://subversivechurch.blog/blogs/>
> 
> 
> Relying on sources like Michael Mann's
>> On 6 Feb 2019, at 9:59 am, Zoe Barley via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> I don't know how to word this but I long for a recreation of the mythology - the hymns and prayers - the language - and the understanding of the Biblical stories that would make worship in church a meaningful experience. Even a progressive congregation is hampered by what's available. We worked at that in many ways - daily office, canonical hours, songs - but how can this be a task for the organized church? Zoe
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: Ellie Stock via OE 
>> Sent: Feb 6, 2019 10:39 AM 
>> To: oe at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> 
>> Cc: Ellie Stock 
>> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Some reflections from Shadow Rock Church -- one ofthe founders was interviewed recently 
>> 
>> Thanks, Marshall--sounds good to me.  This has been our main focus through the church (local congregation, presbytery, and PCUSA) and local community since "retirement" from the full time pastorate seven years ago.  Most denominations have programs moving in this direction, if congregations dare use them and connect/network with other churches and groups in a wider movement.
>> 
>> Ellie
>> elliestock at aol.com <mailto:elliestock at aol.com>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: W. J. via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>>
>> To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>>
>> Cc: W. J. <synergi at yahoo.com <mailto:synergi at yahoo.com>>
>> Sent: Wed, Feb 6, 2019 11:29 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Some reflections from Shadow Rock Church -- one ofthe founders was interviewed recently
>> 
>> 
>> In response to Wiegel's 4 categories of church history:
>> Early period -- clarity on the word about life
>> Medieval period -- being the glue of society
>> Reformation -- being the prophet and priest
>> Now (or then, as in the last century) -- social pioneer
>> 
>> Each of these foci was the leading edge of mission in its era, but each built on the 'ground' of the previous expressions/self-understandings of the PoG.
>> So, if the O:E was called to create a leading edge of mission in the 20th century--or up until 2007--what form of the PoG is now being called into being?
>> One guess: some 'thing' that focuses on global ecological transformation to envision and create a sustainable and equitable ecosystem with justice for all living beings--including future generations.
>> And that's about all I can come up with @ age 78.
>> Marshall
>> On Wednesday, February 6, 2019, 6:07:48 AM PST, H. A. Tillinghast via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> May someone in his eighties retell the story of the church coming out of the last 25 years of biblical research.
>> I First two centuries: Jesus movement struggles in its empire context to define the Kingdom as an alternative.
>> II Constantine buys rights to “Christianity” and institutionalizes it to legitimize empire.
>> III Church today again struggles to return to becoming a movement in midst of a global empire that now threatens the viability of the whole planet.
>> 
>> Bud Tillinghast
>> LCXile
>> 
>> Several Sources:
>> “The Roman Empire and the New Testament” Warren Carter
>> “God and Empire” J D Crossan
>> “Everything Must Change” Brian McLaren
>> “This Changes Everything” Naomi Klein
>> 
>>> On 6 Feb 2019, at 5:35 am, Richard Alton via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> That is great for somebody inn their 70s
>>> Dick
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 10:09 PM James Wiegel via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
>>> Thanks for adding in, Troy.  I found myself thinking about the old EI "story" of history of the Church (hmm, would be RS-IIc -- how's that for random memory access??)
>>> Early period -- clarity on the word about life
>>> Medieval period -- being the glue of society
>>> Reformation -- being the prophet and priest
>>> Now (or then, as in the last century) -- social pioneer
>>> 
>>> I am thinking, in a local congregation, you don't have the option to just go for social pioneer, it cannot last (
>>> 
>>> Have to balance all 4 -- clarity on the word, being the glue of society, prophet/priest, social pioneer (this comment may not be at all relevant or clear, but, hey, I'm in my 70's -- 
>>> 
>>> Jim Wiegel <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=123>  
>>> “That which consumes me is not man, nor the earth, nor the heavens, but the flame which consumes man, earth, and sky."  Nikos Kazantzakis
>>> 
>>> 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353
>>> 623-363-3277
>>> jfwiegel at yahoo.com <mailto:marilyn.oyler at gmail.com>
>>> www.partnersinparticipation.com <http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, February 5, 2019, 4:30:37 PM MST, Troy Jarvis via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I’m not acquainted with Jack, but think you are mishearing what the pastor is saying, which leads to what seems like you are questioning him. I am quite certain what his response would be to your questions (since I do know him), but you can ask him yourself through ShadowRock web site. He would not take offense. BTW, ShadowRock has been a sanctuary church for several years and Ken and others go down to ICE offices monthly for a gathering to let them know they are being “watched.” Ken has been pastor for, I believe, 11 years now.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> I share Jim’s concerns for existential Christianity. I trust the existential will always find a way.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Troy Jarvis
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>>> 
>>>  
>>> From: Jack Gilles via OE <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2019 1:59 PM
>>> To: OE Listserve <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
>>> Cc: Jack Gilles <mailto:jackcgilles at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Some reflections from Shadow Rock Church -- one ofthe founders was interviewed recently
>>> 
>>>  
>>> I watched the video. Very good, but I take it this is the new pastor. His comment about “as long as the action doesn’t break the law” really hit me. What does he say about the sit-ins of the civil rights movement? How would he explain Bonhoeffer’s decision to kill Hitler? What makes the law (he says of the establishment) make breaking it a taboo? I wish she would have given back the image of the Trans-establishment. Gene Marshall has a wonderful diagram and statement on that. I worry about the future for that church.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Jack
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Feb 4, 2019, at 09:28, Jean Long via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Hi Jim -
>>> 
>>> Did you actually go to Shadow Rock and talk to them or was this conversation something you found along the way?
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Jean
>>> 
>>>  
>>> On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 1:53 PM Linda and Milan Hamilton via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks Jim, if I were to go back to the institutional church that is the kind of group I would be a part of. And it being a part of my old denomination struck me. My second choice would be Redlands UCC, in our town, which has not quite the intentional history but close. But I am in the bleachers cheering them on and doing my best to stay grounded in the Way Life Is. MM
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jan 31, 2019, at 11:33 AM, James Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com <mailto:jfwiegel at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> North Phoenix.  Remember the RS-1 worship intro about architecture?  The building is shaped as a wedgeblade and the front is floor to ceiling windows looking out on the world.  Wedgeblade instead of a cross.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Shadow Rock UCC | <https://www.shadowrockucc.org/>
>>>  
>>> Shadow Rock UCC |
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Jim Wiegel <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=123>  
>>> 
>>> “That which consumes me is not man, nor the earth, nor the heavens, but the flame which consumes man, earth, and sky."  Nikos Kazantzakis
>>> 
>>> 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353
>>> 
>>> 623-363-3277
>>> jfwiegel at yahoo.com <mailto:marilyn.oyler at gmail.com>
>>> www.partnersinparticipation.com <http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/>
>>>  
>>>  
>>> On Thursday, January 31, 2019, 12:29:54 PM MST, Linda and Milan Hamilton <lindaandmilan at gmail.com <mailto:lindaandmilan at gmail.com>> wrote: 
>>> 
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Well that was a trip back to some good old 20th century grounding. A church actually basing it’s life on RS1 and evolving as a “social pioneer.” Where is Shadow Rock church?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jan 31, 2019, at 11:25 AM, John C via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks much, Jim. A fine 30” dialogue between ministers relative to foundational operating images of Shadow Rock Church then in 1970s and today.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Notice that the wedge blade still stands.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> John and Lynda C.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> From: OE <oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net>> on behalf of James Wiegel via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>>
>>> Reply-To: Jim Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com <mailto:jfwiegel at yahoo.com>>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>>
>>> Date: Thursday, January 31, 2019 at 1:32 PM
>>> To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>>, Colleague Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>>, Judith Wiegel <judithwiegel at yahoo.com <mailto:judithwiegel at yahoo.com>>
>>> Cc: Jim Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com <mailto:jfwiegel at yahoo.com>>
>>> Subject: [Oe List ...] Some reflections from Shadow Rock Church -- one of the founders was interviewed recently
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Our Covenant:
>>> We covenant one with another to be that sensitive and responsive part of human society which perceives and responds to God’s newest thrust in the midst of history. The uniqueness and greatness of every life is radically affirmed. Our task together demands a comprehensive view of life, always pointed intentionally to the future. Our life together involves us individually and corporately in study and worship, always maintaining a proper balance between proclamation of the Word about life with the deeds which make life good. Those activities which eliminate age barriers, cut across religious dogma, reduce cultural parochialisms, and engage secular people with life’s ultimate possibilities will be worthy of our best efforts.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Conversation with Rev. Robin Krieder <https://youtu.be/0px_XJWZR5M>
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Conversation with Rev. Robin Krieder
>>> Shadow Rock Conversation with Rev. Robin Krieder. Rev. Krieder speaks about the founding of Shadow Rock and the ...
>>> 
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Conversation with Rev. Robin Krieder
>>> Shadow Rock Conversation with Rev. Robin Krieder. Rev. Krieder speaks about the founding of Shadow Rock and the ...
>>> 
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Jim Wiegel <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=123>  
>>> 
>>> “That which consumes me is not man, nor the earth, nor the heavens, but the flame which consumes man, earth, and sky."  Nikos Kazantzakis
>>> 
>>> 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 
>>> 
>>> 623-363-3277
>>> jfwiegel at yahoo.com <mailto:marilyn.oyler at gmail.com>
>>> www.partnersinparticipation.com <http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/>
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>> Zoe Barley 
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>> zbarley at earthlink.net <mailto:zbarley at earthlink.net> 
>> 
>> 720-318-1171 (mobile) 
>> 303-388-9191 (land line)
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>> 
>> Zoe Barley 
>> 116 Jackson Street 
>> Denver Colorado 80206 
>> zbarley at earthlink.net <mailto:zbarley at earthlink.net> 
>> 
>> 720-318-1171 (mobile) 
>> 303-388-9191 (land line)
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