[Oe List ...] Some reflections from Shadow Rock Church -- one ofthe founders was interviewed recently

Wed Feb 6 11:49:51 PST 2019

I recently saw a book on Amazon, *Integral Church, A Handbook for New
Spiritual Communities, *by Joran Slane Oppelt - 2014, revised 2018. Haven't
looked at it.

https://progressivechristianity.org/resources/integral-church-a-handbook-for-new-spiritual-communities/

https://integrallife.com/six-varieties-christians-and-their-churches/
Long article. Quick scan.

On Wed, Feb 6, 2019 at 12:35 PM H. A. Tillinghast via OE <
oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

> An additional book I would add to my earlier four suggestions is written
> by an author that David Marshall’s B-K house publish. The best book, as far
> as I am concerned, that David Korten has written is his “The Great Turning:
> from Empire to Earth Community”.
>
> "My intention in writing The Great Turning: From Empire to Earth
> Community is to provide a historically grounded frame for understanding the
> possibilities of the unique time in which we live and thereby enable able
> us to envision the path to a new era. Failing such understanding, we will
> continue to squander valuable time and resources on futile efforts to
> preserve or mend the cultures and institutions of a system that cannot be
> fixed and must be replaced".  321-324
>
> Empire: "Note that throughout The Great Turning I use the term *Empire*
> with a capital E as a label for the* hierarchical ordering of human
> relationships based on the principle of dominatio*n.” His contention is
> that some empire form has been present for the last 5000 years of human
> history to the present.
>
> Earth Community: "Similarly, I use the term Earth Community as a label
> for the egalitarian democratic ordering of relationships based on the
> principle of partnership.” This is ‘church’ for Korten. He seems to lack
> theological perception. However, his description of the problem is worth
> studying. For his focus on empire correlates with the new biblical
> studies of the last quarter century. Where he differs is in his
> prescription. McLaren’s Everything must Change sees the 1/3rd of the human
> race which belongs to some Christian community as the base for a new
> movement to stop the ‘suicide machine’ as he calls the contemporary form of
> empire. Jesus must be repossessed as the leader of Movement over against
> its perversion by the empire take-over. Sort of like JWM’s “She may be a
> whore, but she’s our mother.”
>
> Bud
> https://subversivechurch.blog/blogs/
>
>
> Relying on sources like Michael Mann's
>
> On 6 Feb 2019, at 9:59 am, Zoe Barley via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> wrote:
>
> I don't know how to word this but I long for a recreation of the mythology
> - the hymns and prayers - the language - and the understanding of the
> Biblical stories that would make worship in church a meaningful experience.
> Even a progressive congregation is hampered by what's available. We worked
> at that in many ways - daily office, canonical hours, songs - but how can
> this be a task for the organized church? Zoe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ellie Stock via OE
> Sent: Feb 6, 2019 10:39 AM
> To: oe at lists.wedgeblade.net
> Cc: Ellie Stock
> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Some reflections from Shadow Rock Church -- one
> ofthe founders was interviewed recently
>
> Thanks, Marshall--sounds good to me.  This has been our main focus through
> the church (local congregation, presbytery, and PCUSA) and local community
> since "retirement" from the full time pastorate seven years ago.  Most
> denominations have programs moving in this direction, if congregations dare
> use them and connect/network with other churches and groups in a wider
> movement.
>
> Ellie
> elliestock at aol.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: W. J. via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> Cc: W. J. <synergi at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Wed, Feb 6, 2019 11:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Some reflections from Shadow Rock Church -- one
> ofthe founders was interviewed recently
>
>
> In response to Wiegel's 4 categories of church history:
> Early period -- clarity on the word about life
> Medieval period -- being the glue of society
> Reformation -- being the prophet and priest
> Now (or then, as in the last century) -- social pioneer
>
> Each of these foci was the leading edge of mission in its era, but each
> built on the 'ground' of the previous expressions/self-understandings of
> the PoG.
> So, if the O:E was called to create a leading edge of mission in the 20th
> century--or up until 2007--what form of the PoG is now being called into
> being?
> One guess: some 'thing' that focuses on global ecological transformation
> to envision and create a sustainable and equitable ecosystem with justice
> for all living beings--including future generations.
> And that's about all I can come up with @ age 78.
> Marshall
> On Wednesday, February 6, 2019, 6:07:48 AM PST, H. A. Tillinghast via OE <
> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
>
> May someone in his eighties retell the story of the church coming out of
> the last 25 years of biblical research.
> I First two centuries: Jesus movement struggles in its empire context to
> define the Kingdom as an alternative.
> II Constantine buys rights to “Christianity” and institutionalizes it to
> legitimize empire.
> III Church today again struggles to return to becoming a movement in midst
> of a global empire that now threatens the viability of the whole planet.
>
> Bud Tillinghast
> LCXile
>
> Several Sources:
> “The Roman Empire and the New Testament” Warren Carter
> “God and Empire” J D Crossan
> “Everything Must Change” Brian McLaren
> “This Changes Everything” Naomi Klein
>
> On 6 Feb 2019, at 5:35 am, Richard Alton via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> wrote:
>
> That is great for somebody inn their 70s
> Dick
>
> On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 10:09 PM James Wiegel via OE <
> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
> Thanks for adding in, Troy.  I found myself thinking about the old EI
> "story" of history of the Church (hmm, would be RS-IIc -- how's that for
> random memory access??)
> Early period -- clarity on the word about life
> Medieval period -- being the glue of society
> Reformation -- being the prophet and priest
> Now (or then, as in the last century) -- social pioneer
>
> I am thinking, in a local congregation, you don't have the option to just
> go for social pioneer, it cannot last (
>
> Have to balance all 4 -- clarity on the word, being the glue of society,
> prophet/priest, social pioneer (this comment may not be at all relevant or
> clear, but, hey, I'm in my 70's --
>
> Jim Wiegel <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=123>
>
> “That which consumes me is not man, nor the earth, nor the heavens, but
> the flame which consumes man, earth, and sky."  Nikos Kazantzakis
>
> 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353
>
> 623-363-3277
>
> jfwiegel at yahoo.com <marilyn.oyler at gmail.com>
>
> www.partnersinparticipation.com
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 5, 2019, 4:30:37 PM MST, Troy Jarvis via OE <
> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
>
> I’m not acquainted with Jack, but think you are mishearing what the pastor
> is saying, which leads to what seems like you are questioning him. I am
> quite certain what his response would be to your questions (since I do know
> him), but you can ask him yourself through ShadowRock web site. He would
> not take offense. BTW, ShadowRock has been a sanctuary church for several
> years and Ken and others go down to ICE offices monthly for a gathering to
> let them know they are being “watched.” Ken has been pastor for, I believe,
> 11 years now.
>
>
> I share Jim’s concerns for existential Christianity. I trust the
> existential will always find a way.
>
>
> Troy Jarvis
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
> *From: *Jack Gilles via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 5, 2019 1:59 PM
> *To: *OE Listserve <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> *Cc: *Jack Gilles <jackcgilles at gmail.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [Oe List ...] Some reflections from Shadow Rock Church --
> one ofthe founders was interviewed recently
>
>
> I watched the video. Very good, but I take it this is the new pastor. His
> comment about “as long as the action doesn’t break the law” really hit me.
> What does he say about the sit-ins of the civil rights movement? How would
> he explain Bonhoeffer’s decision to kill Hitler? What makes the law (he
> says of the establishment) make breaking it a taboo? I wish she would have
> given back the image of the Trans-establishment. Gene Marshall has a
> wonderful diagram and statement on that. I worry about the future for that
> church.
>
>
> Jack
>
>
>
> On Feb 4, 2019, at 09:28, Jean Long via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Jim -
>
> Did you actually go to Shadow Rock and talk to them or was this
> conversation something you found along the way?
>
>
> Jean
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 1:53 PM Linda and Milan Hamilton via OE <
> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
> Thanks Jim, if I were to go back to the institutional church that is the
> kind of group I would be a part of. And it being a part of my old
> denomination struck me. My second choice would be Redlands UCC, in our
> town, which has not quite the intentional history but close. But I am in
> the bleachers cheering them on and doing my best to stay grounded in the
> Way Life Is. MM
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> On Jan 31, 2019, at 11:33 AM, James Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> North Phoenix.  Remember the RS-1 worship intro about architecture?  The
> building is shaped as a wedgeblade and the front is floor to ceiling
> windows looking out on the world.  Wedgeblade instead of a cross.
>
>
> Shadow Rock UCC | <https://www.shadowrockucc.org/>
>
> Shadow Rock UCC |
>
>
>
>
> Jim Wiegel <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=123>
>
> “That which consumes me is not man, nor the earth, nor the heavens, but
> the flame which consumes man, earth, and sky."  Nikos Kazantzakis
>
>
> 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353
>
> 623-363-3277
>
> jfwiegel at yahoo.com <marilyn.oyler at gmail.com>
>
> www.partnersinparticipation.com
>
>
>
> On Thursday, January 31, 2019, 12:29:54 PM MST, Linda and Milan Hamilton <
> lindaandmilan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Well that was a trip back to some good old 20th century grounding. A
> church actually basing it’s life on RS1 and evolving as a “social pioneer.”
> Where is Shadow Rock church?
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> On Jan 31, 2019, at 11:25 AM, John C via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> wrote:
>
> Thanks much, Jim. A fine 30” dialogue between ministers relative to
> foundational operating images of Shadow Rock Church then in 1970s and today.
>
>
> Notice that the wedge blade still stands.
>
>
> John and Lynda C.
>
>
> *From: *OE <oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net> on behalf of James Wiegel
> via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> *Reply-To: *Jim Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com>, Order Ecumenical Community <
> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> *Date: *Thursday, January 31, 2019 at 1:32 PM
> *To: *Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>, Colleague
> Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>, Judith Wiegel <
> judithwiegel at yahoo.com>
> *Cc: *Jim Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com>
> *Subject: *[Oe List ...] Some reflections from Shadow Rock Church -- one
> of the founders was interviewed recently
>
>
> Our Covenant:
> *We covenant one with another to be that sensitive and responsive part of
> human society which perceives and responds to God’s newest thrust in the
> midst of history. The uniqueness and greatness of every life is radically
> affirmed. Our task together demands a comprehensive view of life, always
> pointed intentionally to the future. Our life together involves us
> individually and corporately in study and worship, always maintaining a
> proper balance between proclamation of the Word about life with the deeds
> which make life good. Those activities which eliminate age barriers, cut
> across religious dogma, reduce cultural parochialisms, and engage secular
> people with life’s ultimate possibilities will be worthy of our best
> efforts.*
>
>
> Conversation with Rev. Robin Krieder <https://youtu.be/0px_XJWZR5M>
>
>
> [image: https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png]
> Conversation with Rev. Robin Krieder
>
> Shadow Rock Conversation with Rev. Robin Krieder. Rev. Krieder speaks
> about the founding of Shadow Rock and the ...
>
>
>
>
> [image: https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png]
> Conversation with Rev. Robin Krieder
>
> Shadow Rock Conversation with Rev. Robin Krieder. Rev. Krieder speaks
> about the founding of Shadow Rock and the ...
>
>
>
>
> Jim Wiegel <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=123>
>
> “That which consumes me is not man, nor the earth, nor the heavens, but
> the flame which consumes man, earth, and sky."  Nikos Kazantzakis
>
>
> 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353
>
> 623-363-3277
>
> jfwiegel at yahoo.com <marilyn.oyler at gmail.com>
>
> www.partnersinparticipation.com
>
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>
> --
> Richard H. T. Alton
> One Earth Film Fest ( OEFF)
> Green Community Connections
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> Zoe Barley
> 116 Jackson Street
> Denver Colorado 80206
> zbarley at earthlink.net
>
> 720-318-1171 (mobile)
> 303-388-9191 (land line)
>
>
>
> Zoe Barley
> 116 Jackson Street
> Denver Colorado 80206
> zbarley at earthlink.net
>
> 720-318-1171 (mobile)
> 303-388-9191 (land line)
>
>
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