[Oe List ...] Listserve on prayer, 2-story universe, etc.

Tue Sep 20 17:26:25 PDT 2016

Dear ones,

I've been following this most interesting discussion with the hope that
theological discussion is wide enough to embrace our various ways of
experiencing and talking about the "spirit".  I would say that a large
number of the clients I see will tell me that they are not "religious" but
they are "spiritual"  I have come to understand that they often think of the
church building and its beliefs as "religious".  By spiritual, they usually
mean they have found other ways to speak of how they journey through their
lives.

Two remembrances come to me, especially at this time.

# 1 Experience - A visit to my sister's family when I was extremely ill and
deeply depressed and sorrowful.  I sat in my misery looking at a family of
politically and religiously conservative, Pentecostal Christians, who's
beliefs I had been highly critical of, filled with joy and love for each
other, for me (their worrisome sister who they felt might border on the
satanic), and for those whom they cared for outside of their immediate
family. 

As I watched this amazing and delightful group of people, it dawned on my
critical self, that who am I to judge how other people express the
relationship they have to that which is beyond most explanation or
description?  The "religious" or spiritual is about personal experience -
NOT philosophical or theological rightness or wrongness. Throughout history,
people have tried to find words to describe their own  experiences of the
awe and wonder of life and of humanity in all its intelligence and murkiness
of mind; in all its greatness and baseness.  

And the very powerful thought came to me, "What if NONE of us ever truly
enters the so-called "pearly gates" (that is, grows up spiritually) until
ALL of us, regardless of creed or theological "correctness" (be it
ICA-correctness or Pentecostal correctness) does it together hand in hand.

#2 Experience - Taking part in the Methodist service of a church in Columbus
Ohio in which Eileen and George were very active.  I, who basically am bored
with and even dislike church services and the language in it (including the
Daily Office) was awed by this urban church in the midst of the poorest of
the poor. Its congregation had just about every culture, life-style and
economic class sitting together, having the time of their lives.

This church, had innumerable social and economic programs for the community,
a fantastic gospel and jazz band and choir leading people in amazing
singing, and people standing up and witnessing about what had happened in
their lives that week.  And what was most amazing to me is that each one
spoke about their experience in language that they felt expressed their
"experience" - about as many possible ways you can imagine, from the most
conservative religious expressions to the vaguest and most uncertain
language. And everyone, regardless of how they, themselves might have
described it, said "amen!"

This is one church I will not forget.  It's too bad that there seem so few
of them truly serving the people in their own community.  This church goes
OUT to the people and invites them IN, as well - not too many congregations
do I find doing both.

I would hope our theological and philosophical discussions are just as
expressive.

In peace,

Del

Change of any sort requires courage. 

From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Isobel and
Jim Bishop via OE
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 7:27 PM
To: Jack Gilles <jackcgilles at gmail.com>; Order Ecumenical Community
<oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Listserve on prayer, 2-story universe, etc.

Isobel and  Jim Bishop

isobeljimbish at optusnet.com.au <mailto:isobeljimbish at optusnet.com.au> 

Dear Folks, especially Jack, 

I too am grateful that the list serve is still ticking over!  I  have
observed  over the years I have been reading this listserve- that in the
summer months in the northern hemisphere- you all are quieter, and don' t
engage so much.. I have always thought to myself 

that this is because you like to be outdoors, enjoying your summer..? In the
winter months when you don' t go out so much, you seem to stay by your
computer more often and write pearls of wisdom..Just my observation  from
down here in Oz.

Yes, I listened to Joe's lecture and it brought back so many memories. 

I thought he described the two storey universe well. I hope that Susan found
it useful. 

Nowadays I think what Joe was saying to me--  can best be described as the
connectedness of ALL of life-  both at the very  centre of my life, and in
the cosmos, and  in the urban, secular everyday life  of connecting with the
world and all that is within it. 

. and   at  the edges too. ...the farthest reaches of the planet. I did
notice that the last few words of Joe's talk included ' all of Creation
itself.' This made me realise that Joe was way ahead of his time, talking
about Creation..

A word about prayer.   Some time ago, on the list serve there was some
reference to prayer- and Jim Weigel gave a small description of it-  as '
leaning to the good'.  I don't  know if this helps others, but it helped me
at the time, and I still reflect on these 

words. I do feel that good vibes which I empathise about a situation;  can
bring gentleness and calmness to a situation, be it a person, or a
situation.

Enough from me from Leichhardt, an inner west suburb of Sydney. 

Jim is well-  has just had had both his caratacts renewed, and will be  87
next month. I am 80, and still very active. We do lots of walking and
exercises etc., 

Our daughter Rebecca, a US citizen, will be voting again in your  Election,
I reckon. It is quite scary from this viewpoint. 

All the best to y'all,

and with grace, peace, and love, 

from   Isobel. 

On 20/09/2016, at 1:57 AM, Jack Gilles via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net
<mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> > wrote:

There should be a request to share the ability to open. But if you see a
'download' arrow, do that and then download the link that allows you to
listen to Goole.doc sound tracks. I couldn't open my post as well, but I did
that and it plays just fine. It opens another window with the player. I hope
others find that works for them as well.

Jack

On Sep 19, 2016, at 10:54, Doris Hahn via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net
<mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> > wrote:

I tried to access Jack's sharing of JWM on 2-story universe, but it is
locked. How do I get in?

Doris Hahn
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