[Oe List ...] Salmon: prayer reflection

Tue Sep 20 14:33:13 PDT 2016

Thanks everyone for your contributions. I am so glad to have this
conversation tool available again!

Bill, I took your contribution on prayer and language to a meeting I
attended last night, since it was quite apropos to our conversation of the
evening. Folks really appreciated the input.

Doris Hahn

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 10:54 AM, William Salmon via OE <
oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

> Susan, *et al*,
>     Something to consider. The wonderful thing about our personal
> experiences is that we all look at the same reality, but we bring to this
> task a set of prescription glasses (lenses?) that colors our perception of
> the reality we all experience. This makes the task a personal one.
>     This is why the quadrilateral of John Wesley is helpful. Wesley
> believed we need to ask four questions about any task or conversation about
> that task: scripture, tradition, reason and experience. This provided those
> who use these four dynamics to be kept from being dilatants.
>     The following paragraph will explain this process:
> *The phrase which has relatively recently come into use to describe the
> principal factors that John Wesley believed illuminate the core of the
> Christian faith for the believer. Wesley did not formulate the succinct
> statement now commonly referred to as the Wesley Quadrilateral. Building on
> the Anglican theological tradition, Wesley added a fourth emphasis,
> experience. The resulting four components or "sides" of the quadrilateral
> are (1) Scripture, (2) tradition, (3) reason, and (4) experience. For
> United Methodists, Scripture is considered the primary source and standard
> for Christian doctrine. Tradition is experience and the witness of
> development and growth of the faith through the past centuries and in many
> nations and cultures. Experience is the individual's understanding and
> appropriating of the faith in the light of his or her own life. Through
> reason the individual Christian brings to bear on the Christian faith
> discerning and cogent thought. These four elements taken together bring the
> individual Christian to a mature and fulfilling understanding of the
> Christian faith and the required response of worship and service.*
> (Source: A Dictionary for United Methodists, Alan K. Waltz,
> Copyright 1991, Abingdon Press. Used by Permission.)
>     I like this and I use it often. It allows me to identify my personal
> experience, and then to measure my perceptions by the other dynamics;
> this keeps me from getting arrogant; the "selfy-age often strikes.
>     Weskey said that "scripture" was prime. However, there are those among
> us who affirm that "experience" could be prime and then supported or
> challenged by tradition, reason and the scriptures.
>     Thanks for sharing.
>     Bill
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------------
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Susan Fertig via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> *To:* Isobel and Jim Bishop <isobeljimbish at optusnet.com.au> ; Order
> EcumenicalCommunity <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> *Sent:* Monday, September 19, 2016 10:56 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] Listserve on prayer, 2-story universe, etc.
>
> If we’re operating out of experience, mine is just different than yours.
> So, just as I’m not likely to change anybody’s mind on this listserv, none
> of the comments here are likely to change mine. I know what I know. I
> believe what I believe.
>
>
>
> Someone actually accused people who believe what I believe of
> “shallowness” and “superstition.”
>
> Interesting that in my church of about 3,000 congregants, some of the
> greatest minds in a city rife with intellect, scientific or from other
> disciplines, engage with God in a way you’d all probably laugh about. But
> of course we are all deficient intellectually in the minds of people who
> have dismissed this way of looking at relationship with God, and Christ,
> and the Holy Spirit.
>
> Superstition is avoiding black cats and walking under ladders. It bears no
> resemblance to my faith.
>
> My experience of the other world is as real as my hand in front of my face.
>
>
>
> *Susan*
>
>
>
> Susan Fertig-Dykes
>
> (personal email account)
>
>
>
> *And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in
> drought .  Isaiah 58:11*
>
>
>
>
>
> Protect against email address harvesting:
> Use "BCC" when sending to multiple addresses;
>
> delete senders’ E-Mail addresses when forwarding.
>
> NOTE: I won’t be offended if you ask me to remove you from my emails.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* OE [mailto:oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net] *On Behalf Of *Isobel
> and Jim Bishop via OE
> *Sent:* Monday, September 19, 2016 10:27 PM
> *To:* Jack Gilles <jackcgilles at gmail.com>; Order Ecumenical Community <
> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] Listserve on prayer, 2-story universe, etc.
>
>
>
>
>
> Isobel and  Jim Bishop
>
> isobeljimbish at optusnet.com.au
>
>
>
> Dear Folks, especially Jack,
>
>
>
> I too am grateful that the list serve is still ticking over!  I  have
> observed  over the years I have been reading this listserve- that in the
> summer months in the northern hemisphere- you all are quieter, and don' t
>  engage so much.. I have always thought to myself
>
>
>
> that this is because you like to be outdoors, enjoying your summer….? In
> the winter months when you don' t go out so much, you seem to stay by your
> computer more often and write pearls of wisdom….Just my observation  from
>  down here in Oz.
>
>
>
> Yes, I listened to Joe's lecture and it brought back so many memories.
>
>
>
> I thought he described the two storey universe well. I hope that Susan
> found it useful.
>
>
>
> Nowadays I think what Joe was saying to me--  can best be described as the
> connectedness of ALL of life-  both at the very  centre of my life, and in
> the cosmos, and  in the urban, secular everyday life  of connecting with
> the world and all that is within it.
>
>
>
> … and   at  the edges too. ...the farthest reaches of the planet. I did
> notice that the last few words of Joe's talk included ' all of Creation
> itself.' This made me realise that Joe was way ahead of his time, talking
> about Creation….
>
>
>
> A word about prayer…   Some time ago, on the list serve there was some
> reference to prayer- and Jim Weigel gave a small description of it-  as '
> leaning to the good'.  I don't  know if this helps others, but it helped me
> at the time, and I still reflect on these
>
>
>
> words. I do feel that good vibes which I empathise about a situation;  can
> bring gentleness and calmness to a situation, be it a person, or a
> situation.
>
>
>
> Enough from me from Leichhardt, an inner west suburb of Sydney.
>
>
>
> Jim is well-  has just had had both his caratacts renewed, and will be  87
> next month. I am 80, and still very active. We do lots of walking and
> exercises etc.,
>
>
>
> Our daughter Rebecca, a US citizen, will be voting again in your
>  Election,  I reckon. It is quite scary from this viewpoint.
>
>
>
> All the best to y'all,
>
>
>
> and with grace, peace, and love,
>
>
>
> from   Isobel.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 20/09/2016, at 1:57 AM, Jack Gilles via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> There should be a request to share the ability to open. But if you see a
> ‘download’ arrow, do that and then download the link that allows you to
> listen to Goole.doc sound tracks. I couldn’t open my post as well, but I
> did that and it plays just fine. It opens another window with the player. I
> hope others find that works for them as well.
>
> Jack
>
>
> On Sep 19, 2016, at 10:54, Doris Hahn via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> wrote:
>
> I tried to access Jack's sharing of JWM on 2-story universe, but it is
> locked. How do I get in?
>
> Doris Hahn
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