[Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan

Tue Nov 1 18:16:22 PDT 2016

As an outsider, being in the Order/ICA gave me a close-up viewof the US and how its citizens related to it. In all those years, beginningwith Nixon all the way up to Obama, I’ve seen it invade and destroy nationsaround the world, releasing waves of refugees and other miseries. Butwithin  the US, people lived in a cocoon thathelped them avert their eyes. I remember the Vietnam war protesters and the manyyoung people who fled the US in order not to be driven to kill “gooks”overseas. I noticed that at best, we were silent on this and at worst,disapproving. When I look back, I see that the protesters were the “sensitiveand responsive” part that Niebuhr wrote about. I also noticed the hunger amongus to cite links to famous figures while pointing out that to live in the “nolonger and the not-yet” was to be “nobodies”. Perhaps this was the effect of consuming the stories meant for ourframing and fund-raising strategies.

I see that same hunger now reflected in recalling somedistant crossing of trails with Hillary Clinton. Americans have been set up bythe political elite to adopt positions around two equally ugly candidates putbefore them for the exercise of their “democratic rights”. For all the emotionsthe Republican-Democrat tension evokes in our emails, election after election, thatrivalry is a sham. This is a nation ruled by a “single party with two factions”.Whichever you praise or denigrate, the real owners of the land always win. Andfor the rest of us around the world, we can only wait for the light from this “beaconon the hill” to eventually fade. Then, perhaps, the US will  take its place as an ordinary member in thecommunity of nations.

Dharma 

    On Wednesday, 2 November 2016, 7:33, Len Hockley via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

  Dido Jon,  The Naked Now by Richard Rohr is required reading!

 Len Hockley

 On 11/1/2016 2:58 PM, via OE wrote:

  Love this, Jon. Thanks. 
  Jann

 -----Original Message-----
 From: jonzondo at juno.com via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
 To: isobeljimbish <isobeljimbish at optusnet.com.au>; oe <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
 Cc: oe <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
 Sent: Tue, Nov 1, 2016 1:37 pm
 Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan

    Dear Group.
 Jon Elizondo here.  Son of Tony and Ellery.
 Long time "Order kid" and short time Order adult.

 This conversation is very important, especially with all the perspectives.
 I will try to hone in now on one of my key points.
 The change needed in the system is huge.  Our current system is incredible broken in so many ways.  We are a first world country "purposefully" going backwards by not investing in our infrastructure nor in our people.   In my observation and opinion, much of the national frustration shows itself in the desire to elect Trump, or Bernie, or any alternative.  The "Cry" for change is massive, and will not let up.     One of the traps is either/or thinking.   one of the ways forward is both/and/plus-more thinking.   One of the traps is "personal attacks".   one of the ways forward is "come join us at the table".   What I know in my bones is that we are all connected.  That mysterious truth, combined with my passion & respect, is my key to intentionally moving forward.   Walk in Beauty, Jon   

 ---------- Original Message ----------
 From: Isobel Bishop via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
 To: Wilson Priscilla H <pris at teamtechpress.com>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
 Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan
 Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 07:23:32 +1100

 Thankyou for this conversation, colleagues. I appreciate the  Honesty, pain and fear expressed in depth,to give us outsiders some real hope.
 Thankyou all. In peace and love, Isobel 
 Sent from my iPhone 
 On 2 Nov 2016, at 7:02 am, Wilson Priscilla H via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

 No one has said that better, Randy. You should put that on Facebook…so we can all copy your words. Priscilla Wilson 

 On Nov 1, 2016, at 2:35 PM, Joyce Sloan via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:  Well said, Randy!! 
 On Nov 1, 2016 2:20 PM, "Randy Williams via OE" <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

  I keep asking, but still have not seen, one shred of verifiable evidence to substantiate the charge  that Hillary has committed a criminal act of any sort. She's made serious mistakes like with the private server, she has not been as transparent as she could and perhaps  should have been, she got paid a lot of money for some speeches (but less than some men), she's flip-flopped on some positions she's taken like on TPP, she has a super-healthy ego  (an asset for a man but a huge liability for a woman in our culture), she didn't play nice when she was First Lady trying to get health care passed, as Secretary of  State she traveled the world and spoke truth to power like the Premier of China, and after much  gut-wrenching deliberation and prayer she chose to stay true to her vow to her husband of "for better or worse" through "worse." And to add insult to injury, she decided to run  to be the first woman in the Office of President of the United States. How dare she. Despise her for all those things and hate all her positions on the issues, but don't  accuse her of being a criminal unless you have some rock solid proof that hours and years and millions of dollars worth of hearings, investigations and witch hunts by scores of government agencies, news media and nondescript malcontents have been unable to  produce. I've heard the rumors, innuendos, exaggerations, conjecture, gross distortions and outright lies, everything but verifiable truth. Got any? Then let's have it. But double check your sources before you put it out there because there really are some  malingering, deplorable liars afoot in the land and a lot of fools are believing them and then repeating what they heard them say and calling it truth, and it just isn't.  Randy

 Sent from my iPad 
 On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Susan Fertig via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

   Trump was never my choice, and Hillary is a criminal--her vision for the country is my  first nightmare. And Trump is just as flawed. Both of them scare me to death. But neither if the other candidates is really an option either. I  fear we're about to see this great American experiment in democracy become something no less evil than the many kleptocracies around the  world.   Susan   Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid  On Nov 1, 2016 11:55 AM, Judi White <sophiacircle at gmail.com> wrote:

  Well,  what you wrote is what Frumper repeats over and over.  Mist who parrot him do support him. 
 I Personally prefer to read responses to a  candidates vision for this nation. 
 Also I stand firm in ny admiration which  never ceases, of this woman who has continued in spite of  the unbelievable accusations which are so blown up out of the real  world of truth and honesty that it is cause for  seriously asking "Why?". 
 Why the hell bent mission to destroy a solid vision  for this nation and this planet? There is no other candidate who shines so  brightly and qualified to be an example for our  children and grandchildren at this time.  Rightly so. 
 On Nov 1, 2016 12:20 PM, "Susan Fertig via OE"  <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

   How in the world did you infer that I  must be a Trump supporter from my message?   Susan   Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE  Droid  On Nov 1, 2016 7:56 AM, Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942 at gmail.com> wrote:

      Dear Susan,   Writing to you as a Canadian  Christian and 16-year Order member, I am awed by your commitment to  American Republicanism and  conservative Christianity.  How in the world did you spend so much  time with the EI/OE/ICA community and have your world view  remain unaffected?   From the perspective of Canada, we are  87% supporters of HRC and the image of America she represents.  Probably Russia is 87%  in favour of Donald.   Each and every ‘crime’ that I have  read about that is attributed to  Hillary has been most  grandly committed by Republicans in  previous Bushadministrations.   Surely you would agree that  Donald Trump is an out and out racist,  sexist, homophobe,  parochial narcissist and most of all a  climate change denier? HRC is  none of the above. Thankfully,  she is responsive to both Bernie and to Elizabeth. We  may get out of this mess yet.    Your phrase: "only values I see  are  abject greed, a pathological  allegiance to lies, and arrogant  flaunting of her ability to  circumvent the law. She has done  absolutely nothing to  improve the lives of the poor and  disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to  the contrary.” is really the truth that the world sees about Trump.   I would invite you to see all that  as a projection.   Should Trump take ownership of  any of the above, that would be a  fine moment of grace. Would  you not agree?   Margaret Atwood, (a Canadian poet, novelist, literary critic, essayist, and  environmental activist)  describes America in the midst of a  Salem type witch hunt. I agree. It is, at the  bottom a war against women.   While there are indeed my  contradictions in American society that  both the Republican and  Democratic administrations must answer  for, the attached  article came closest - for me - in  describing how the Republican voice has committed itself to an  ‘end game’ and it would seem that indeed, the GOP will ‘end’.   Love and best wishes to you, Susan and  to all Trump supporters who have been left without any vision other  than rebellion or depression.    We are all responsible.  Everyone.   Ken in Canada.    
A Republican intellectual  explains why the Republican Party is going  to die
  http://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/1 2256510/republican-party-trump -avik-roy               
  On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:03 AM, Susan  Fertig via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: 
    Values??? The only values I see  are  abject greed, a pathological  allegiance to lies, and arrogant  flaunting of her ability to  circumvent the law. She has done  absolutely nothing to  improve the lives of the poor and  disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to  the contrary. I've heard for years about this possible connection to  EI/ICA, and I truly hope it's not true.  It would be a horrible  embarrassment to the movement.   Susan   Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE  Droid  On Oct 31, 2016 11:22 PM, William  Salmon via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

   Colleagues--     So many raise the question  concerning Hillary Clinton's  relationship to E.I. I  decided to cast this bread upon the  waters. The first sign is that while I addressed it to Hillary  Clinton, an alternate address popped up. Consequently,  it may really get to her attention, to  that of some aid. May it be  a Kool-Aid.      Inner Peace,      Bill    Mrs. Hillary Clinton:     It is my prayer that this  reaches you concerning your  experience in 5th City,  Chicago, or it could have been in  Evanston. Your Youth Director, Don Jones, must have been at a  training event to become known as RS-I. About the same time, a large  number of us dedicated ourselves to  this renewal movement that  grew from our experience in Chicago Ghetto  to literally embrace the  world.      It makes me wonder if your  experience under his leadership  influenced the values you  hold dear, and now wish to step onto the platform of  the Presidency to do for our United States and for the world what was  embraced by the courageous citizens in 5th City.      You carry my prayers during  this last turbulent week. You have  my vote.      Grace and Peace,      Pastor William E. Salmon     744 So. 10th     Salina, KS  67401     wsalmon at cox.net           
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     Wilson Priscilla H pris at teamtechpress.com www.teamtechpress.com   follow me on: Facebook  Twitter        

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