[Oe List ...] OE Digest, Vol 42, Issue 1
David Flowers via OE
oe at lists.wedgeblade.net
Tue Sep 1 11:25:52 PDT 2015
Re: [Dialogue] Breakfast News Conversations...
Hi everyone -
In my classrooms I teach ORID as four levels of experience and thus - four
levels of inquiry.
Briefly
Objective - what happened?
Reflective - what does that remind you of?
Interpretive - What meaning do you attach?
Decisional - What's next ?
The way I think about the method is that we, as human beings, get to see
ourselves, get to stand outside ourselves, get to notice our assumptions
and the context we bring to each step. Get to notice at each level our
historic and personal programming as individuals operating in larger
contexts. And, most importantly, as our ability to notice, and stand
outside ourselves, at each level, changes or increases, so also does our
personal understanding of our Freedom (in tension with our Obligations of
course) -
Self awareness / self definition occurs at each step
With regard to dropping the Decisional step - my first response is - Not to
decide is to decide. Not to decide is to choose no change to who I am as a
result of working the first three levels. I don't buy that but am not mad
at anybody claiming such.
On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 12:39 PM, via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: [Dialogue] Breakfast News Conversations...
> (Randy Williams via OE)
> 2. Re: [Dialogue] Breakfast News Conversations...
> (Jack Gilles via OE)
> 3. Re: in a reflective mood today (Katrin Ogilvy via OE)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 17:19:38 -0500
> From: Randy Williams via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> To: "laurelcg at aol.com" <laurelcg at aol.com>
> Cc: "dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net" <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>,
> "oe at lists.wedgeblade.net" <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Breakfast News
> Conversations...
> Message-ID: <45FA5B9B-FD25-4F31-837F-E5EC2C7BE932 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> In Catholic social teaching they have a 3-step process--see, decide, act.
> Albert Outler, my professor of church history at Perkins had his
> version--what, so what, and now what. All obviously are strikingly similar
> enough to ORID that one may be led to think there may be some substance
> there! ?
> Randy
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> > On Aug 31, 2015, at 5:06 PM, via Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > I don't know what it means that the Decisional step in ORID has
> disappeared. We are left with a decision if we reflect on and interpret the
> objective events of our lives and times. Is it that, in instructional or
> facilitating situations we don't push participants for a decision?
> >
> > My bilingual education mentor was Alma Flor Ada. She'd fled Castro's
> Cuba to live in Chile for a time. Her mentor was Paulo Freire, who had fled
> Brazil to live in Chile. She invited me to a seminar with him when she
> taught at Univ. of San Francisco in the 80's. What a privilege!
> >
> > The method she taught and used in her textbooks was very similar to
> ORID. She called the last step "Creative" rather than "Decisional". I like
> it. Whether Decision or Creativity, we're stuck with that last step.
> >
> > Blessings,
> > Jann
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: steve har via Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> > To: W. J. <synergi at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: oe <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>; dialogue <
> dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> > Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2015 11:02 am
> > Subject: Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] Breakfast News Conversations...
> >
> > Jack Gilles quoted earlier this tread said that the "D" in ORID has
> disappeared.
> >
> > "D" might just as well stand for disaster or maybe a "dumpster" for the
> seemingly un-ending list of issues, crisis's and interpretations in this
> world.
> > Do you know where your "D's" are?
> >
> > It seems like the " I's" - the interpretations - are trying to say into
> existence some stance with which to engage.
> >
> > ---
> > In the Imaginal Education course stance was called "attitude"
> >
> >
> > Attitude was about having place to stand -"to be" in the world", to be
> a self with a past history and future to decide as a free human being. See
> this photo image: https://goo. gl/photos/sD8E79aA4D7K584R6.
> >
> > Bill Salmon and I had some fun trying to write a little about those old
> board images and try to bring them to life in the 21st Century. He's a
> pretty good writer, by the way -short and straight.
> >
> > Attitude was an essential part of actually having a place to stand in
> the -then education crisis of the times - and still have something to have
> some vitality to offer any learner 5th City Preschool student, or a
> Training Inc student...RS1 CS1 LENS, it didn't seem to matter.
> >
> > David Scott describes in an Archives oral history interview the same
> basic sense of things.
> >
> > He and his wife and the Fishels as new members of the Order met in a PSU
> and developed the Summer 65 for 50 young college students, pastors, and
> metro cadres. It was right after he and others left the Selma march and
> Martin Luther King...to drive to the West Side of Chicago.
> >
> > What was this stance or attitude stuff about?
> > One sense of having a stance or attitude was you were actually "being
> in the game" of your own free will, not being "in the stands" spectating,
> opining, booing and cheering the play in someone Else's game.
> >
> > --
> > On a more personal note, now being in the game, being in Phase 4 and
> being not far from the end of my own game is different now.
> >
> > When I play, more often it is something like hide and seek with my young
> grand-daughter, Indi, she always wants to be in the play of the game. She
> is not interested in watching and spectating.
> >
> > Indi doesn't even want to keep score...she just wants a chance to play
> full-out and whole hearted. She is clever at finding! She knows how to help
> people find a place in the game...says, you go hide Grandpa, so I do!
> >
> > I'm the one learning to be in this game, she is the teacher, she keeps
> the play of the game. It is serious fun and new and altogether.
> >
> > Once in a while I bounce her on my knee and tell her stories of people
> hiding, then seeking then finding their way from my world. And I show her
> her iPad like this one of a friend of teachers and children learning new
> things: https://goo. gl/photos/9qTepcXCFs9FDzUx6.
> > A friend that she knows goes there to help once in a while.
> >
> > ---
> > Soon we're going to launch " Imaginal Inquiry" -a place to introduce
> people to Imaginal Educational materials available from the Archives
> Online. You can see the Twitter site here: https://twitter.com/ 50newqs
> and follow if you like.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dialogue mailing
> > list
> > Dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net
> > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dialogue mailing list
> > Dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net
> > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 18:09:10 -0500
> From: Jack Gilles via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> To: Randy Williams <randycw1938 at gmail.com>
> Cc: Frank Cookingham via Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>,
> Tracy Longacre via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Breakfast News
> Conversations...
> Message-ID: <B21D7E0B-D014-49F6-8DAA-CD1A5F71B28C at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Well, it is a natural process. Yes Jan, we always are left with a
> decision, but when D is left of it is easy to ignore making a
> self-conscious one. Since Steve Harrington referred to me, my comment was
> really was an observation of a situation I was watching in Chicago. I was
> aware how easy it was to ?Discard? as a response to something that had
> meaning. I knew at the time that seeing this situation was a ?message? to
> me and my response (not necessarily acting right there on it) had to be
> taken into my interior. That is what I meant that people love to talk about
> problems, but never see they have some internal response that needs to be
> authentic.
>
> Jack
>
> > On Aug 31, 2015, at 5:19 PM, Randy Williams via Dialogue <
> dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
> >
> > In Catholic social teaching they have a 3-step process--see, decide,
> act. Albert Outler, my professor of church history at Perkins had his
> version--what, so what, and now what. All obviously are strikingly similar
> enough to ORID that one may be led to think there may be some substance
> there! ?
> > Randy
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> >
> > On Aug 31, 2015, at 5:06 PM, via Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net
> <mailto:dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
> >
> >> I don't know what it means that the Decisional step in ORID has
> disappeared. We are left with a decision if we reflect on and interpret the
> objective events of our lives and times. Is it that, in instructional or
> facilitating situations we don't push participants for a decision?
> >>
> >> My bilingual education mentor was Alma Flor Ada. She'd fled Castro's
> Cuba to live in Chile for a time. Her mentor was Paulo Freire, who had fled
> Brazil to live in Chile. She invited me to a seminar with him when she
> taught at Univ. of San Francisco in the 80's. What a privilege!
> >>
> >> The method she taught and used in her textbooks was very similar to
> ORID. She called the last step "Creative" rather than "Decisional". I like
> it. Whether Decision or Creativity, we're stuck with that last step.
> >>
> >> Blessings,
> >> Jann
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: steve har via Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:
> dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>>
> >> To: W. J. <synergi at yahoo.com <mailto:synergi at yahoo.com>>
> >> Cc: oe <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>>;
> dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:
> dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>>
> >> Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2015 11:02 am
> >> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] Breakfast News Conversations...
> >>
> >> Jack Gilles quoted earlier this tread said that the "D" in ORID has
> disappeared.
> >>
> >> "D" might just as well stand for disaster or maybe a "dumpster" for the
> seemingly un-ending list of issues, crisis's and interpretations in this
> world.
> >> Do you know where your "D's" are?
> >>
> >> It seems like the " I's" - the interpretations - are trying to say
> into existence some stance with which to engage.
> >>
> >> ---
> >> In the Imaginal Education course stance was called "attitude"
> >>
> >>
> >> Attitude was about having place to stand -"to be" in the world", to be
> a self with a past history and future to decide as a free human being. See
> this photo image: https://goo <https://goo/>.
> gl/photos/sD8E79aA4D7K584R6.
> >>
> >> Bill Salmon and I had some fun trying to write a little about those old
> board images and try to bring them to life in the 21st Century. He's a
> pretty good writer, by the way -short and straight.
> >>
> >> Attitude was an essential part of actually having a place to stand in
> the -then education crisis of the times - and still have something to have
> some vitality to offer any learner 5th City Preschool student, or a
> Training Inc student...RS1 CS1 LENS, it didn't seem to matter.
> >>
> >> David Scott describes in an Archives oral history interview the same
> basic sense of things.
> >>
> >> He and his wife and the Fishels as new members of the Order met in a
> PSU and developed the Summer 65 for 50 young college students, pastors, and
> metro cadres. It was right after he and others left the Selma march and
> Martin Luther King...to drive to the West Side of Chicago.
> >>
> >> What was this stance or attitude stuff about?
> >> One sense of having a stance or attitude was you were actually "being
> in the game" of your own free will, not being "in the stands" spectating,
> opining, booing and cheering the play in someone Else's game.
> >>
> >> --
> >> On a more personal note, now being in the game, being in Phase 4 and
> being not far from the end of my own game is different now.
> >>
> >> When I play, more often it is something like hide and seek with my
> young grand-daughter, Indi, she always wants to be in the play of the game.
> She is not interested in watching and spectating.
> >>
> >> Indi doesn't even want to keep score...she just wants a chance to play
> full-out and whole hearted. She is clever at finding! She knows how to help
> people find a place in the game...says, you go hide Grandpa, so I do!
> >>
> >> I'm the one learning to be in this game, she is the teacher, she keeps
> the play of the game. It is serious fun and new and altogether.
> >>
> >> Once in a while I bounce her on my knee and tell her stories of people
> hiding, then seeking then finding their way from my world. And I show her
> her iPad like this one of a friend of teachers and children learning new
> things: https://goo <https://goo/>. gl/photos/9qTepcXCFs9FDzUx6.
> >> A friend that she knows goes there to help once in a while.
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Soon we're going to launch " Imaginal Inquiry" -a place to introduce
> people to Imaginal Educational materials available from the Archives
> Online. You can see the Twitter site here: https://twitter.com/ <
> https://twitter.com/> 50newqs and follow if you like.
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Dialogue mailing
> >> list
> >> Dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:Dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> >> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net <
> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Dialogue mailing list
> >> Dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:Dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> >> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net <
> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dialogue mailing list
> > Dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net
> > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 12:01:06 +1000
> From: Katrin Ogilvy via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> To: Del Morrill <delhmor at wamail.net>, Order Ecumenical
> <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] in a reflective mood today
> Message-ID: <55E506E2.2040306 at tpg.com.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
>
> Dear Del,
>
> As we here in Australia come slowly out of a 'cold' (for us) winter,
> looking forward to warm weather we also prepare for the 'bush fire season'.
>
> Here is an unsung hero from last summer:
>
>
> Australian Country Fire
> Association Volunteer rescuing a koala
>
>
> On 1/09/2015 5:49 AM, Del Morrill wrote:
> >
> > Dear ones,
> >
> > Yesterday was a memorial service in Wenatchee, Washington (across the
> > mountains from us) for the three firefighters who died in wildfire
> > fighting (got trapped). These men remind me of all those people who
> > choose jobs in which our own safety depends, at risk of life ? hard on
> > families, yet how seldom do I take note of their sacrifice unless
> > something tragic hits the news. How many fire fighters, rangers,
> > police, etc., have died in efforts to keep us safe? How many
> > reporters have risked their lives to keep us aware of what?s happening
> > in the world? Many have died in that effort.
> >
> > And I think this morning, as well of the ?silent ones? who work at
> > jobs that carry risk, but probably get no real public recognition ?
> > workers on highway construction who are hit by careless drivers; the
> > ones who clean up after storms and try to restore services by handling
> > hot lines; coal diggers who have died so we could have heat and all
> > the rest that comes from that mineral; tunnel diggers and bridge
> > builders, so our cars could get somewhere faster; and so many others
> > that I probably have never heard of. They may have merited a line or
> > two in the paper, or given no recognition at all except by family
> > members and a few friends.
> >
> > I sit here in my warm, dry, comfortable home aware that, despite rain
> > AT LAST, after an exceptionally dry year here, there are still fires
> > not controlled in this area, and in so many other places in our
> > country ? which means there are many more who continue to risk their
> > lives for our sakes.
> >
> > Then, along with remembering the death of 3, the same paper this
> > morning reports the death of a child, killed in her own bedroom while
> > doing homework, from a stray bullet by a gun fired outside. A recent
> > statistic states that, in the USA, there have been more deaths by guns
> > than in ALL of the wars and other conflicts in which our nation has
> > participated! Men (and women) are fighting natural disasters like
> > fires today, but how do we fight this particular disaster?
> >
> > With affection,
> >
> > */Del/*
> >
> > /Change of any sort requires courage. /
> >
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of OE Digest, Vol 42, Issue 1
> *********************************
>
--
David Flowers
"Whatever the problem, community is the answer. There is no power greater
than a community discovering what it cares about." Margaret Wheatley
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