[Oe List ...] OE Digest, Vol 39, Issue 17

Mon Jun 22 15:30:12 PDT 2015

Forgiveness is having a Sunday School that dissects the reality after the fact!

Seriously, there is a sense in which 'forgiveness' is objectively a recognition of what is, irrespective of what the victim or perpetuator/perpetrator feels, thinks or do.  Forgiveness is recognition that what has transpired is done, finis, kaput - and no amount of wishful thinking can bring it back again.  That is probably why forgiveness is a radical stance. The reality out there is water under the bridge.

Now, the reality "in here" has been shown to take a roller-coaster ride.  But that is a choice one makes.

That the SC Gov finally decided to haul down the Confederacy flag is admirable but that is to deal with the "in here" reality.  As to Roof and his 9 victims, the deed is done.  IMHO.

Thank Rod for bringing this up.

j'aime la vie
yesterday, appreciate; tomorrow, anticipate; today, participate! in all, celebrate!

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Subject: OE Digest, Vol 39, Issue 17

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Today's Topics:

   1. VP #73 The Question of Forgiveness (Rod
Rippel via
OE)

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Message:
1
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 08:06:15 -0700
From: Rod Rippel via OE
<oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: "Betty Skinner"
<bettyskinner34 at gmail.com>,	"Betty Turner"
	<btturner4 at aol.com>,	"Bill
Schaffer" <bcschaffer at sbcglobal.net>,	"Bob
	Lang" <bob34lang at verizon.net>,
<Cmae36 at aol.com>,	"Connie Canter"
	<washoe at allglobal.net>,	"Dick Wilt"
<dwilted at sbcglobal.net>, "Dolores
	Lowry" <D107c at aol.com>,	"Don Schaffer"
<dondonna at sbcglobal.net>,	"Gene
	Dennis" <geno65270 at yahoo.com>,	"Herb
Lawrence"
	<herb.lawrence at att.net>,	"Jack Stewart" <stewart538 at gmail.com>,
"Jeff
	Rippel" <jarip45 at verizon.net>,	"Martha Burton
Hall"
	<mobmom at sbcglobal.net>,	"Maurice Frazier"
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	<ZOURAH4 at aol.com>
Cc: Marion Muma
<marionmuma at gmail.com>, Linda Orr
	<lorr56 at comcast.net>,	Jeff Rippel
<jarip45 at verizon.net>,	Sarah Beth
	Rippel <fitprosarah at gmail.com>,	John Fistere
<johnfistere at gmail.com>,
	Curtiss Rippel <ripson2 at prodigy.net>,	Linda
Armacost
	<larmacost at cox.net>, Clifford Rippel
<crippel at mac.com>,	Victoria
	Freiheit <qvfreiheit at sbcglobal.net>,	Dolores Lowry
<D107c at aol.com>,
	Andrew Rippel <rippeldrew at yahoo.com>,	Pauline
Rippel
	<peacepwr at cox.net>, MW Sattva
<morgsat at gmail.com>,	Cmae36 at aol.com,
	staley pitts
<staley.pitts at gmail.com>,	Michael Dorfi <mdorfi at cox.net>,
	Steve Rippel
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	<holtsmith at sbcglobal.net>
Subject:
[Oe List ...] VP #73 The Question of Forgiveness
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The question of forgiveness is raised by the
events of the shooting of 9 people in a Bible class at Emmanuel AME Church in
Charleston, SC.

Is forgiveness contingent or unconditional?  Are we to
forgive seven times over (or 70X7) and then what?  Is forgiveness contingent on
repentance? or on Metanoia?  Is it contingent on the perpetrator asking for
forgiveness, giving an explanation, reasons, justifications, circumstances,
rationalizations, mitigating considerations...Or?.  Or does he have to say, 
"Metanoo,"  "I have had a change of heart."  "My heart has been made over."  No
mention of the deed itself?  No act of repenting?  No apology even?  No defense?
Only say Metanoo, I have been transformed?  Or is even that needed to wipe out
the deed?  To make it 'As if,  as if, it never happened at all?  Is the event of
the deed wiped out by the event a change of heart?  And if there is no change of
heart?  Are we still to forgive? To forget as if...

Recently, for my
wife's birthday I gave my her a small package wrapped in plain paper.  On the
wrapping I had written:  "Forgiveness Implementer - with Practical Applicator
with instructions on the label."  Of course it was a 'gag gift,' a sock-filler
among other such gifts for her to open.  The item in question was a small bottle
of  White Out, an item well used in the days of typewriters to blot out errors. 
The instructions on the bottle were:  COVER IT.  Blot it out as if you never
made the typo.  Forget about it and make the correction as if it never happened.
Can the past transgression of so heinous 

a deed be forgotten?  Is the
forgiveness enhanced by the memory and depth of the injury?  If so who is the
benefactor of forgiveness, the perpetrator or the victim?

What happens
when a perpetrator doesn't repent and shows no sign of a 'change of heart?'

I wonder if the case can be made that forgiveness, that forgiving, is
unconditional.  Maybe that's what Jesus of Nazareth was really all
about.
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