[Oe List ...] Charles Moore
via OE
oe at lists.wedgeblade.net
Thu Jul 3 22:21:13 PDT 2014
We can be gracious even to those who take exception to the judgment others make, and of those we make.
Charles choose the manner of his exit. It finally does not matter whether a causality can be established on any type of result that will or will not follow. Nor would we think it to be a gracious act. It is equally clear that judgments reflect more the state of being of the judger rather than the judged.
Charles Moore made a choice, that is, to me, a rare and valiant one. He may have been trying to call not only attention to his causes but also to himself, but I do not think he was trying to be just "another so-and-so", or a second "this or another". I think, he was just being Charles Moore - who gave a speech once to lower a room's temperature - and for that, I am thankful.
Sad, but I am moving on. I have my own choices to make! Don't we all?
Jaime
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Subject: OE Digest, Vol 28, Issue 3
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Today's Topics:
1. Charles Moore (via OE)
2. Tyler Morning Telegraph - Madman or Martyr? Retired minister
sets self on fire, dies (rcwmbw via OE)
3. Re: [Dialogue] death of Charles Moore (Gordon Harper via OE)
4. Re: [Dialogue] death of Charles Moore (Ken Fisher via OE)
5. 7/3/14, Spong: Part XXIV Matthew - Interpreting Atonement
Theology, Part II (Ellie Stock via OE)
6. Re: [Dialogue] death of Charles Moore (Don Hinkelman via OE)
7. Re: Rev. Charles Moore. Self-immolation in protest for
injustice - perpetrated or allowed by our government
(Mary Hampton via OE)
8. Fwd: Madman or Martyr? Retired minister sets self on fire,
dies (Mary Hampton via OE)
9. Charles Moore info (Mary Hampton via OE)
10. Fwd: GMCA June 28-29 (David Zahrt via OE)
11. Re: Fwd: Madman or Martyr? Retired minister sets self on
fire, dies (Holcombe Wanda via OE)
12. Re: [Dialogue] death of Charles Moore
(Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 13:46:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: oe at lists.wedgeblade.net
Subject: [Oe List ...] Charles Moore
Message-ID: <8D164FDCB085755-1E18-3E80E at webmail-va028.sysops.aol.com>
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Charles Moore is an impressive man whose life remains in the sphere of
"eternity" in my baggage of Christian metaphors. We had his young teenage son
at the Saskatoon House. Like many of our Order youth, he was not at ease with
assigned "authority" figures, Duncan Holmes nor I. But I liked the son probably
because he was "rebellious" enough to be assertive.
Being an SMU/Perkins grad myself, Charles is a brother!
Will light up a candle here in Canada (will most likely just turn on a LED
flashlight) as Calgary goes on a Stampede, and I take five couples to Lake
Louise in Banff on a three day tour. Canada Day was a big deal, and tennis
bonne femme Bouchard just made the Wimbledon Finals.
Charles lit a bigger fire. He remains aflame in me.
Jaime
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 11:20:00 -0500
From: rcwmbw via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: "oe at lists.wedgeblade.net" <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Subject: [Oe List ...] Tyler Morning Telegraph - Madman or Martyr?
Retired minister sets self on fire, dies
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Here is a story that appeared in the Tyler, Texas Morning Telegraph regarding
Charles Moore's death, along with a copy of the note he left on the windshield
of his car. The note is, well, moving, to say the least.
Randy
http://www.tylerpaper.com/TP-News+Local/201968/madman-or-martyr-retired-minister-sets-self-on-fire-dies#.U7WA_2K9KK0
Madman or Martyr? Retired minister sets self on fire, dies
Published on Tuesday, 1 July 2014 22:40 - Written by KENNETH DEAN
kdean at tylerpaper.com
Graphic copy alert: Accompanying this story is an image of Charles Robert
Moore's suicide note, provided by Grand Saline Police. It contains graphic
language.
GRAND SALINE ? A 79-year-old Methodist minister who died after setting himself
on fire on a busy street in this town of about 3,100 residents left behind a
suicide letter asking the community to repent for its racism.
Charles Robert Moore, who had addresses in Allen and Sunnyvale, drove to Grand
Saline on June 23, parked his vehicle in a Dollar General lot in the 500 block
of East Garland Street, doused himself in gasoline and committed
self-immolation, Police Chief Larry Compton said Tuesday.
?I have never seen anything like this in my entire career in law enforcement,
which includes my years as an arson investigator for the Mesquite Fire
Department," the 66-year-old chief said.
Horrified witnesses ran to the man and tried to put out the fire. Another
witness then arrived with a fire extinguisher.
"They got the fire put out, and the man was transported to Parkland Hospital in
Dallas, where he later died of his injuries," Compton said.
Moore put a typed suicide note on his car windshield before he set himself on
fire, the chief said.
In the note, which Compton provided to the Tyler Morning Telegraph, Moore ? who
is white - stated he was born in Grand Saline and grew up around racial
discrimination.
His letter claimed that the community shunned blacks and resorted to violence,
including hangings, burnings and decapitations.
"I will soon be 80 years old, and my heart is broken over this,? Morris wrote.
?America, and Grand Saline ? have never really repented for the atrocities of
slavery and its aftermath. What my hometown needs to do is open its heart and
its doors to black people as a sign of the rejection of past sins.?
Moore wrote that visions of violence haunted him greatly.
"So at this late date, I have decided to join them by giving my body to be
burned,? he wrote. ?With love in my heart not only for them but also of the
perpetrators of such horror ... "
Morris signed the letter, which was dated June 23.
Angi McPherson, 44, was working in the Sophistikutz hair salon when she saw the
man walking around the parking lot.
"He had been walking around the parking lot for a while, but he didn't seem like
anything was wrong,? Ms. McPherson said. ?After awhile we saw him grab something
square (police report would show it was a 2-by-3-foot piece of foam) and knelt
down. Then we saw him grab a gas can and begin pouring something all over him.
We were like, ?Is that gas???
Ms. McPherson said she will never forget the next few moments.
?He suddenly burst into flames, and he stood up and started screaming,? she
said. ?One of the guys ran and tried to put him out with his shirt, while my
boyfriend ran to him with a fire extinguisher and finally put him out.?
Ms. McPherson called the incident troubling.
"I have never seen anything like that, and it was like watching some kind of a
horror movie. Who sets them self on fire?" she said.
Compton said the preacher?s death disturbed him. He added that while Grand
Saline might once have been racially divided, today it is a community of
acceptance.
"It might have been that way in the 1930s, ?40s and ?50s like a lot of places,
but today we are a community of different ethnicities and racial makeups," he
said.
According to citydata.com, whites compose about 76 percent of the population,
while Hispanics make up about 21 percent. The black population ? at 20 people -
numbers fewer than 1 percent.
Ms. McPherson said she has lived in the town all of her life and she knew there
was still racial divide in the small community.
"It's not as big as it used to be, but it is here. It is everywhere," she said.
By comparison, the East Texas town of Gilmer, which has about 5,000 residents,
is 65.3 percent white, 15.7 percent Hispanic and 15.5 percent black.
Of Gladewater?s population of about 6,500, about 76 percent are white, 15
percent are black and 5.1 percent are Hispanic.
Mineola has a population of about 4,500, of which about 61 percent are white,
23.4 percent are Hispanic and 13 percent are black.
Blacks compose about 10 percent of Winnsboro?s population of about 3,250, with
whites numbering at about 84 percent and Hispanics at 4.3 percent.
According to the U.S. Census bureau?s figures, Texas? population in 2013 was
about 26.4 million, with the nation at 316.1 million.
The state?s population was 80.6 percent white, compared to 77.9 percent
nationally. Blacks numbered 12.3 percent for Texas and 13.1 percent for the
United States. Hispanics numbered 38.2 percent for the state and 16.9 percent
for the nation.
James Chase Sanchez, a Texas Christian University Rafford Research Fellow
working on his doctorate in racial rhetoric, said self immolation is the second
most symbolic form of suicide only behind self-crucifixion.
"When someone sets themselves on fire in order to commit suicide, they have
something to say," he said.
Sanchez said he is from Grand Saline and knows there is a history of racism in
the town.
"We all want to think that there is no racism among us today and that any racism
is on an individual level, but our past memories can affect us as a community,?
he said. ?Everyone in Grand Saline knows there is a history, but no one wants to
talk about it."
Sent from my iPad
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 11:26:52 -0700
From: Gordon Harper via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: Del Morril <delhmor at wamail.net>
Cc: Order Ecumenical <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] death of Charles Moore
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Like many of us, the last time I saw Charles was at the Vail event in 2000.
The mode and intentionality of his death are very much appropriate topics
for our reflection; so is our way of celebrating this unrepeatable life by
recalling our own stories and the impact this life had on us.
I generally appreciated Charles' dour perspective on whatever was
happening, including what we were doing at the moment and he was himself
involved in. In a community which was decisionally upbeat, Charles
perpetually saw a lack of attire on the Emperor--and I found refreshing his
willingness to share those perceptions with the rest of us. A line
attributed to Thomas Hardy comes to my mind when I think of Charles: "Cheer
up--the worst is yet to come."
Our only posting together was the team sent to Maliwada in 1976 to launch
the first HDTIs and the replication effort in Maharashtra. Charles and Pat
were there for the first year. All of us on that team are profoundly
indebted to Pat's keeping us alive during it by managing to find food when
there was none. My recollection is that Charles found himself utterly lost
in that environment and soldiered on during the year they spent there
without ever finding a role that genuinely engaged him. Most of what
happened in his life after that I knew little about.
My favorite recollection of Charles, though, is of a moment during the 1971
Global Research Assembly. Our plenaries that summer were at Malcolm X
College (pre-Kemper era). On the occasion of this evening's plenary, a
thousand or so of us were gathered in the assembly hall following dinner,
and there was a great deal of excitement and accompanying din. I happened
to be backstage with Joe and a few of the staff, getting ready for the
upcoming session. Joe turned and said, "The mood out there is entirely too
high. Charles, will you go out and say a few words."
This simple request broke us all up for a moment, recognizing that Joe was
calling on one of our colleague's special gifts, namely, that of lowering
the mood of a group. Charles did go out and say a few words, and the mood
quieted dramatically. I have sometimes told this story, which sticks in my
memory along with the one Slicker was fond of telling about his friend,
Red, as a way of recognizing that we all have remarkable gifts to
contribute to the mission, however strange they may appear to be.
We celebrate this completed life of a colleague --
Gordon
On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 8:49 AM, Del Morril via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
wrote:
> Thanks for this meaningful response, Jack, for it does speak to the other
> side of things, which is to truly appreciate the being and works of this
> colleague. I most certainly do honor what Charles has given to the world in
> the past, and what his life has meant o those who've known him.
>
> I guess I was simply so shocked at the way he chose to do this, especially
> not letting his family know of his plans. This is one of the reasons I felt
> it was totally unfair of him to choose this way out life. I appreciate his
> life, but still consider his act one of a totally disillusioned man, rather
> than an act of social conscience. But, as usual, that is my opinion.
>
> I am sure that Charles' hope included that his death would, indeed,
> stimulate dialogue of one kind or another, not only by us, but by all who
> saw and heard about it.
>
> Del
>
> Del Hunter Morrill
> 3217 North Mason Avenue
> Tacoma WA 98407-5419
> H: (253) 752-1506; W: (253) 383-5757
> delhmor at wamail.net
> Web site: www. hypnocenter.com
>
> The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek. (Joseph Campbell)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jack Gilles [mailto:jackcgilles at gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 8:39 AM
> To: Del Morril
> Cc: Order Ecumenical
> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] death of Charles Moore
>
> Del,
>
> For many of us we are his family, still. It is not for us to judge his act
> nor its sanity. That is between he and the Mystery, which I am sure he was
> deeply aware of. It sounds insane and a waste to most, I'm sure. I
> certainly
> wouldn't have done it. But that is an opinion and we will never know the
> deeps of his soul or the call he felt. Our task is to celebrate his
> existence, his place in the galaxy of the Order and pray for his immediate
> family that they may be comforted.
>
> In one sense all our deaths are absurd. We were born to be free and act in
> forgiveness. I take him at his word and deed. We die our own deaths or we
> allow death to decide for us. As I said, his choice is not my choice, but
> he
> certainly understood the call to act on behalf of all.
>
> The last time I saw Charles was at the 2000 Order Gathering in Vail. He
> spoke and it was not received well and for that I am sorry. He was a
> beloved
> man, with so many gifts and so much anguish. May he be at home in the
> ultimate Mystery. I shall miss him and am grateful for having him shape, as
> so many hundreds did, my life and direction.
>
> Grace & Peace,
>
> Jack
>
> On Jul 3, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Del Morril via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Can you imagine what this act has done to his family?! He may think it
> was
> > sacrificial, but I think, like any open suicide for any reason, it is
> > totally self-serving, regardless of his philosophy! An insane
> demonstration,
> > from my perspective, and yet, in some ways, understandable. I just don't
> > think it will make a bit of difference in changing the social conscience.
> > That's the truly sad part of this act.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dialogue [mailto:dialogue-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf
> Of
> > George Holcombe via Dialogue
> > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 12:19 AM
> > To: ICA/OE List Serves; ICA/OE List Serves
> > Subject: Re: [Dialogue] death of Charles Moore
> >
> > Our colleague Charles immolated himself June 23, see article at
> >
>
> http://www.umc.org/news-and-media/retired-pastor-saw-destiny-in-self-immolat
> > ion
> >
> > Memorial service will be held July 12 at Faith Presbyterian Church in
> > Austin.
> >
> > George Holcombe
> > 14900 Yellowleaf Tr.
> > Austin, TX 78728
> > Mobile 512/252-2756
> >
> > "...we have the choice: we can gratefully cultivate the relationships
> that
> > make us part of a vast network, or we can take them for granted and allow
> > them to wither and die." Brother David Steindl-Rast, Deeper than Words
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dialogue mailing list
> > Dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net
> > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
> >
> >
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 17:16:57 -0400
From: Ken Fisher via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: Terry Bergdall <bergdall2 at gmail.com>
Cc: ICA/OE List Serves <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>, ICA/OE List Serves
<dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] death of Charles Moore
Message-ID: <E34EEFF8-8880-4716-951F-ED7E43411C3F at gmail.com>
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When I (we) was prior of Madison '70-71ish, Charles was our Regional Prior at
South House Chicago - with Troxels in Milwaukee, Davis's in Peoria, with the
Shanklands etc. It was a momentous year, focusing on the Local Church
Experiment and RS1. Charles once said of himself "I am RS1" and indeed there
were extended periods of time when he was, challenging us to be RS1 also. I am
most grateful for that period of time, being around and included in the warmth
of his care.
The last memorable time was in Bruxelles in the fall (?) of '82 when a bunch of
us from the House and from Centrum went to see the movie 'Gandhi' for the first
time. He led the movie conversation on an outdoor patio near the theatre. It
was very, very good.
'The Last Picture Show', a movie depicting a group of 1950s high schoolers
coming of age in a bleak, isolated, atrophied West Texas town that is slowly
dying, was shot in a few different West Texas towns, one of which was Charle's
home town. He was he excited about that.
In awe of his death and his life,
Ken
On 2014-07-03, at 9:49 AM, Terry Bergdall via Dialogue wrote:
Charles was a complex and insightful man. His short "new world spin" telling the
story of being seated next to an fragile elderly black gentlemen on an airplane,
and then being asked to assist his on a trip to the toilet, remains one of the
most powerful statements that I've heard heard about the spirit journey of
responding to issues of social justice. It was all there, consistent with my
experience once he called attention to it: abstract passion, occasional
resentment, the ultimate joy of engagement (which at times, if one stops to
think too much about it, reveals an absurdity within it all). Charles was not a
man to forget then, nor now.
On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 2:18 AM, George Holcombe via Dialogue
<dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Our colleague Charles immolated himself June 23, see article at
http://www.umc.org/news-and-media/retired-pastor-saw-destiny-in-self-immolation
Memorial service will be held July 12 at Faith Presbyterian Church in Austin.
George Holcombe
14900 Yellowleaf Tr.
Austin, TX 78728
Mobile 512/252-2756
?...we have the choice: we can gratefully cultivate the relationships that make
us part of a vast network, or we can take them for granted and allow them to
wither and die.? Brother David Steindl-Rast, Deeper than Words
Sent from my iPad
_______________________________________________
Dialogue mailing list
Dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net
http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________
Dialogue mailing list
Dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net
http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 17:17:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ellie Stock via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net, oe at lists.wedgeblade.net
Subject: [Oe List ...] 7/3/14, Spong: Part XXIV Matthew -
Interpreting Atonement Theology, Part II
Message-ID: <8D1651B60B64EC9-1FF0-3EFFC at webmail-vd017.sysops.aol.com>
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HOMEPAGE MY PROFILE ESSAY ARCHIVE MESSAGE BOARDS
CALENDAR
Part XXIV Matthew
Interpreting Atonement Theology, Part II
?Atonement Theology? assumes that human life, though created in the image of
God, is now both fallen and evil. It assumes that God is a being who can be
?offended? by human disobedience, is incapable of forgiving and must, therefore,
exact the deserved punishment on the sinful human life. It assumes that Jesus?
death was the punishment that God required and that Jesus? willingness to
satisfy God?s anger on our behalf has brought us the reconciliation for which we
yearned. Consequently, it assumes that salvation comes to us through the
suffering and death of Jesus, enabling us to reclaim the status for which we had
originally been created.
When one strips away the piety of the ages and states its premise boldly, as I
have sought to do above, ?Atonement Theology? is revealed as a barbaric idea,
hardly worthy of a deity whose nature is supposed to be that of love. ?Atonement
Theology? needs to be seen for what it is and purged from Christianity. It is
not about grace, as is so often claimed; it is about wrath. ?Atonement Theology?
is wrong at every point. In this column I want to expand on just why a
Christianity that still speaks in the language of ?Atonement Theology? has no
future.
First, I begin by looking at what ?Atonement Theology? does to our concept of
God. It is not only an expression of dated theism in that it defines God as an
external, supernatural being, but it also turns God into a monster. The God of
?Atonement Theology? is a deity intent upon punishment. The God of ?Atonement
Theology? lacks the qualities of both love and compassion and is more concerned
with guilt than with grace; with punishment than with forgiveness. Salvation,
according to ?Atonement Theology? requires the suffering, sacrifice and death of
the divine Son, which means that ?Atonement Theology? portrays God as the
ultimate child abuser. Why anyone would be drawn to worship such a sadistic
deity is beyond me, yet this concept is at the heart of the Christianity in
which I was raised and the religion that has permeated my culture. Our hymns
proclaim it, our liturgies reflect it, our sermons are based on it and that ever
present mantra of traditional Christianity, ?Jesus di
ed for my sins,? proclaims it. This is the God before whom we are taught to
kneel like slaves might do before a king. This is the God whom we are taught to
beg for mercy. This is the God who proclaims us to be ?wretches,? ?miserable
offenders,? people in whom there is ?no health? or wholeness. Will an
enlightened world continue to worship, to say nothing of continuing to believe
in such a deity? I do not think so unless we are willing to accept a definition
of human life that borders on being pathological.
Second, look next at what ?Atonement Theology? does to Jesus. It reduces him to
the status of a perpetual victim. Maybe he is a masochist, eager to suffer,
eager to mount his cross, constantly reminding us of the pain that we have
forced him to endure. Perhaps this is the reason that the primary symbol of
Christianity through the ages has been, not the cross, but the crucifix. The
crucifix was a constant reminder of the suffering that Jesus was forced to
endure ?for us and for our salvation.? The crucifix adorned the cell of every
monk and nun in Christian history, reminding him or her constantly of the debt
each of us owes this Christ. The church was apparently not aware in those days
of the psychological truth that one never really loves the one upon whom we are
made to be both dependent and constantly grateful. Who then needs the Christ of
?Atonement Theology?? This Christ becomes an object only of our mental sickness.
Finally, look at what ?Atonement Theology? does to you and me. It fills us with
a debilitating guilt. Guilt indeed becomes the coin of the realm in Christianity
itself. In every way possible, the church encourages us to feel guilty. We are
controlled by guilt. We are taught to wallow in it. That is why our
worthlessness is proclaimed so frequently in our worship. That is why we are
taught to beg God for mercy over and over and over again. That is why the
dignity of our humanity is systematically stripped from us in liturgy in the
name of Christianity. Guilt, ?the gift that keeps on giving,? is instilled in us
daily. Can one imagine a more effective guilt producer than to proclaim to all
of Jesus? followers that it is our sins that are the cause of Christ?s suffering
and death? The Christian Church made sado-masochism a virtue in worship,
extolling whips and nails as Christ absorbs the pain due us and because of us.
We even wrote sado-masochism into our hymns. What else could
be the meaning of these words?
?Before thy throne, O Lord, we kneel, Give us the conscience quick to feel.
?A ready mind to understand the meaning of thy chastening hand;
?Wean us and train us with thy rod; teach us to know our faults, O God.?
This God is not urged to ?spare the rod? and thus ?to spoil the child,? but to
use it!
Another of the Lenten hymns of my church also makes this guilt message very
clear:
?Who was the guilty, who brought this upon you? Alas my treason, Jesus, hath
undone thee;
?Twas I Lord Jesus, I it was denied thee, I crucified thee!?
Is guilt ever a positive or healthy emotion? If not, why are we taught to wallow
in it? Has any one of us ever known another to be helped by being told how evil
he or she is? Would a parent do that to a child? Can any one of us imagine this
parent-child conversation: ?Look, child, you were born in sin! You can do
nothing good without God. You deserve nothing but God?s wrath.? Would such a
style of parenting ever produce a healthy adult? If, however, that is deemed to
be an unhealthy way to raise a child, why have we Christians ever thought that
this is the proper way to treat worshipers in liturgy? Is controlling behavior
ever a pathway to holiness?
It is, however, not just in this life that the guilt message of ?Atonement
Theology? has been both projected and practiced. The Christian Church?s
traditional understanding of life after death has simply extended this theology
into eternity. ?Be a good boy or girl and you will be rewarded with heaven. Be a
bad boy or girl and you will be sentenced to the eternal punishment of hell.?
Does that not sound familiar? How do these things give us the abundant life
about which the Fourth Gospel?s Jesus is said to have spoken? If that is the
essence and meaning of Christianity, then why does anyone think it will appeal
to another? Is there any wonder that as consciousness grows and people begin to
see that the Christian message really has been psychologically abusive, that
more and more Christians are walking away from the church? What once was a
trickle has today become a flood.
In our generation Christianity is dividing into two mutually repelling camps.
First there are those who do not wish to escape the message of ?Atonement
Theology.? They have grown comfortable with this theology of abuse. They believe
its only weakness is that it has not been proclaimed more stridently in the
words of militant, hysterical fundamentalism. As the traditional adherents and
yes, the victims of ?Atonement Theology,? they do not see their own limited
tribal mentality, causing them to fear racial differences. They seek to force
women back into submissive pattern as the victims of male domination. They seek
to reinstate male control over female bodies by not including birth control
coverage in health insurance. Both by political vote and the establishment of
new laws, they seek to force even those women who are pregnant by rape or incest
not to abort the fetus. It is also hard not to notice that the primary source of
negativity expressed in our society today toward gay
and lesbian people comes from the institutional Christian Church. Those are
the ones who seem intent on reducing the Christian Church to the theology of
yesterday, seeking to recover that security they think they once had in their
?unchanging church.? It is an appealing fantasy to many and those congregations
that live this message out are filled with worshipers. Everyone recognizes,
however, that a church built on dehumanizing people of color, women or
homosexual persons will not survive into the next generation. Does anyone really
think that black people will stop clamoring for the power long denied them? Does
anyone really believe that women will resubmit to male authority? Can anyone
really believe that homosexual persons will be content to return to their
closets of denial, fear and shame? Such tactics at best are a pitiful quest for
security. It will not endure.
The other camp into which Christians are flowing in ever widening streams is
made up of those who leave organized religion in general and Christianity in
particular, to become members of the ?Church Alumni Association.? That is the
fastest growing organization today in the Christian West. The largest single
?Christian? group in America now is made up of secularized former Roman
Catholics. Exiled Christians are not always sure why they have left their
churches. They have only a vague sense that what they hear in church no longer
relates to the world in which they live. They are mostly subconsciously, though
sometimes it rises to a conscious awareness, that the words they hear or the
words their liturgy requires them to say are no longer believable and they are
tired of being told that they should feel chronically guilty.
If ?Atonement Theology? is the meaning of Christianity then the ?millenials? are
correct and their massive abandonment of religion is actually a step into health
and wholeness. There is no future in a Christianity that is still bound to
?Atonement Theology.? The real questions are ?Can Christianity step out of those
concepts which, in the past, have so totally defined it, and still have
something of value to offer the world? Can Christianity still be Christian
outside of ?Atonement Theology?? My conclusion is that every precept underlying
?Atonement Theology? is now inoperative. So is Christianity if we cannot
extricate ourselves from this theological pattern of the past.
~John Shelby Spong
Read the essay online here.
Question & Answer
Robert Pike, via the Internet, writes:
Question:
I read your article on homophobia. I know that the topic is the immorality of
homophobia and I agree with you on this topic. Concerning slavery and the Civil
War, there is an additional moral question rarely mentioned. That is, what was
the best means to end slavery? Yes, slavery is immoral, but so is war. The
defeat of the South resulted in slaves being freed; while at the same time the
Confederate veterans lost their right to vote. This resulted in much racial
hatred and the birth of the KKK. It would have been better to kick the South out
of the Union and refuse to readmit them until they abolished slavery. In Utah,
polygamy was legal before Utah became a state. Utah was not allowed to become a
state until polygamy was abolished. It worked for Utah and would have worked for
the South. Because of the violent way in which slavery was ended, it took 100
years until the Civil Rights movement and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. peacefully
ended the Jim Crow era.
Answer:
Dear Robert,
Thanks for your letter, but I must tell you that I regard it as a rather weak
attempt to do some revisionist history. I am a child of the South, raised in
segregation in North Carolina and I think your assumptions are incredibly naive.
You do not seem to recognize that the South decided they would rather have
slavery than remain in the Union. Utah was willing to give up polygamy so that
they could join the Union. I suppose that if slavery had not been ended on the
battlefields of Gettysburg, Harpers Ferry, Antietam, and Appomattox, that
economic pressure on a slave-owning confederacy, might have forced them to give
up slavery in another 100 years or so. Economic pressure from the world did
force the Republic of South Africa to give up Apartheid in 1994. You seem to
assume that to achieve a peaceful end to slavery legitimizes that inhumane
institution lasting for another hundred years or so; that is a moral compromise
I would never be willing to accommodate. Slavery is wrong,
it is inhumane and it violates everything I believe about the Christian faith.
Its end had to be achieved and the hidden racism that still lives just below the
surface in the world and in our nation today also needs to be confronted openly.
Listen to the racist voices that still speak in our world. Watch those states
where Republicans control both the governor?s office and the state legislature
where overt efforts are still being made to prevent people of color from voting.
I am not willing to countenance a system of government that will compromise the
freedom and dignity of black people, to give white people more time to adjust to
required changes or to enable changes to take place at a pace white people can
tolerate. Justice delayed is not morally neutral, it is justice denied. It must
be condemned, confronted and rooted out.
Yes, I think war was a dreadful alternative and the Civil War brought great
suffering on a lot of innocent people, but if slave owners were not willing to
give up slavery voluntarily and immediately, I will not say that that war was
somehow unnecessary. When Adolph Hitler burned Jews in the crematoriums, I
believe that act warranted a war to force the Nazi government out of power.
So I regard your analysis as simply wrong. The Arc of the Universe bends toward
justice and when justice is systematically denied to people because of race,
ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation or religion, I believe the power of an
ultimate force must be brought to bear on those who think their behavior should
be tolerated, I would be quite prepared for Confederate veterans to lose their
right to vote as punishment for supporting a state that sought to enslave human
beings legally. Racial hatred is a disease that must be rooted out; it is not an
attitude that anyone should support because changing it might upset some of the
slave owners. Racial hatred needs to become so expensive that the racists are
forced to give it up in order to continue to live. Slavery itself is violent; to
remove it from life is not to increase violence.
I enjoyed a church sign board recently that read, ?I have made some of you black
and some of you gay. Get over it!? It was signed ?God.? I do not just want to
?get over it,? I want to celebrate it.
~John Shelby Spong
Announcements
This month at ProgressiveChristianity.org we delve into the topic of Music in
Sacred Community. Join in the discussion, sign up for our free monthly
eBulletin, today!
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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2014 06:35:08 +0900
From: Don Hinkelman via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: ICA/OE List Serves <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>, ICA/OE List Serves
<dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Cc: Hinkelman Don <hinkel at sgu.ac.jp>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] death of Charles Moore
Message-ID: <0EB70092-0036-404C-8755-BD7B210CF1D3 at sgu.ac.jp>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Charles was intentional in his death. The act of burning oneself in public is a
shocking act. I have heard hundreds of monks in Tibet have done so in protest
of Chinese rule. I grew up as a high school kid watching a monk in Vietnam burn
himself in protest of the Vietnam War. I did not understand it, but I never
forgot it and I continued to wonder why someone would be so deeply committed as
to give their life to make that statement. I am still wondering.
Don
> When I (we) was prior of Madison '70-71ish, Charles was our Regional Prior at
South House Chicago - with Troxels in Milwaukee, Davis's in Peoria, with the
Shanklands etc. It was a momentous year, focusing on the Local Church
Experiment and RS1. Charles once said of himself "I am RS1" and indeed there
were extended periods of time when he was, challenging us to be RS1 also. I am
most grateful for that period of time, being around and included in the warmth
of his care.
>
> The last memorable time was in Bruxelles in the fall (?) of '82 when a bunch
of us from the House and from Centrum went to see the movie 'Gandhi' for the
first time. He led the movie conversation on an outdoor patio near the theatre.
It was very, very good.
>
> 'The Last Picture Show', a movie depicting a group of 1950s high schoolers
coming of age in a bleak, isolated, atrophied West Texas town that is slowly
dying, was shot in a few different West Texas towns, one of which was Charle's
home town. He was he excited about that.
>
> In awe of his death and his life,
>
> Ken
>
>
>
>
> On 2014-07-03, at 9:49 AM, Terry Bergdall via Dialogue wrote:
>
> Charles was a complex and insightful man. His short "new world spin" telling
the story of being seated next to an fragile elderly black gentlemen on an
airplane, and then being asked to assist his on a trip to the toilet, remains
one of the most powerful statements that I've heard heard about the spirit
journey of responding to issues of social justice. It was all there, consistent
with my experience once he called attention to it: abstract passion, occasional
resentment, the ultimate joy of engagement (which at times, if one stops to
think too much about it, reveals an absurdity within it all). Charles was not a
man to forget then, nor now.
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 2:18 AM, George Holcombe via Dialogue
<dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
> Our colleague Charles immolated himself June 23, see article at
> http://www.umc.org/news-and-media/retired-pastor-saw-destiny-in-self-immolation
>
> Memorial service will be held July 12 at Faith Presbyterian Church in Austin.
>
> George Holcombe
> 14900 Yellowleaf Tr.
> Austin, TX 78728
> Mobile 512/252-2756
>
> ?...we have the choice: we can gratefully cultivate the relationships that
make us part of a vast network, or we can take them for granted and allow them
to wither and die.? Brother David Steindl-Rast, Deeper than Words
>
> Sent from my iPad
> _______________________________________________
> Dialogue mailing list
> Dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net
> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dialogue mailing list
> Dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net
> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dialogue mailing list
> Dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net
> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 15:17:55 -0400
From: Mary Hampton via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: Alison Dieter <popmomdieter at aol.com>
Cc: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Rev. Charles Moore. Self-immolation in
protest for injustice - perpetrated or allowed by our government
Message-ID: <1F138F1E-1ECC-4C20-B06A-1EE9B212B0A3 at att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Alison, thank you for information. I also knew Charles and will miss his
presence in this plane.
I am passing the letter from his son-in-law on to other friends and colleagues
of his.
Love, Light,
Mary Hampton
> On Jul 3, 2014, at 2:18 PM, Alison Dieter <popmomdieter at aol.com> wrote:
>
> Charles Moore was a good friend. We stood outside the Gov's mansion for many
years, protesting executions. Often, he stood by himself. I feel as he did
about the injustices being heaped on the tired, the poor, the dispossessed .
And understand why he did what he did. It is up to us to make his life and
death meaningful. I cannot stop crying. Alison Dieter
>
> His stepson-in-law, the Rev. Bill Renfro, provided the Tyler Morning Telegraph
with a letter he hopes might provide some perspective:
>
> --------
>
> In the middle of the night, Monday, June 23rd, my wife, Kathy, and I had to
drive to Allen (just north of Dallas) to be with her mother. Kathy's stepfather,
Charles Moore, a retired United Methodist minister, chose Monday to
self-immolate in the Grand Saline town square, the town in which he grew up.
Monday was the 50th anniversary of the discovery in Mississippi of the burned
automobile that belonged to three young civil rights workers who had been
missing since June 21st and found later to have been murdered by members of the
KKK. The three students had gone to Mississippi to help blacks register to vote.
Charles sacrificed his life in this manner as a statement that he was dying on
behalf of others to call attention to the plight of the powerless people
struggling to live who are being denied justice, equality, constitutional
rights, health and quality education. He gave his life on behalf of the hungry,
the poor, the imprisoned, and the jobless as well.
>
> Charles wrote that he was concerned that the programs that were developed for
those who don't have enough for food and adequate nutrition are being cut; that
health care for millions is being denied with no reason except spite toward the
President; that racism is rampant; that the performance of a same-sex union by a
minister of the United Methodist Church is considered to be on a par with crimes
such as rape, pedophilia, extortion, etc.; that LGBTQ persons still suffer
discriminatory practices; that the death penalty is still used as a supreme
punishment without deterrent effect; that cuts are being made in quality public
education for all children; that voting rights are being taken away by
discriminatory laws; that justice is unbalanced for the minorities and the poor;
that tax cuts are proposed for the wealthy; that leaders and lawmakers enjoy
social injustice. Charles Moore considered his act to be a supreme sacrifice for
the sake of others, for all, including the powe
rful and the powerless. He believed that the memory of his act would allow
healing to evolve.
>
> As written in the notes that were left behind, Charles Moore determined that
he had not done enough in his life to alleviate these problems. He had not gone
to Mississippi to register black voters fifty years ago; he had not participated
in the Selma march; he had not fought enough for justice nor had he acted enough
to erase the specter of segregation because he feared for his life or for the
possibility of removal from a church or from the ministry. (His inaction is
debatable since, as a young minister, he was kicked out of churches in East
Texas for standing up for integration and since he went on a hunger strike to
bring attention to the polity of the United Methodist Church that would not
allow gays or lesbians to hold any office within the Annual Conference or in
Local Churches. These rules were relaxed some later. These are only a few of his
many acts for justice during his life.) He decided that his final act would be
the ultimate sacrifice on behalf of others in an
attempt to fulfill in death where he had failed in life.
>
> Time will tell what effects and affects his death will have on society.
>
> Rev. Bill Renfro
>
> / / / / /
>
> http://www.tylerpaper.com/TP-Religion/202014/up-in-flames-selfimmolation-dates-to-political-religious-figures-inworld-history#.U7VtJrGqRac
> Wednesday, 2 July 2014 - 22:31 | Tyler Morning Telegraph
>
> Up in flames: Self-immolation dates to political, religious figures inworld
history
> by Rebecca Hoeffner | rhoeffner at tylerpaper.com
>
> On June 23, a retired minister drove to his hometown of Grand Saline, parked
his car in a Dollar General lot, doused himself in gasoline and set himself
ablaze.
>
> The note he left behind explained that he committed the act as a protest of
what he saw as Grand Saline?s long-standing unrepentant racist culture.
>
> The Rev. Charles Moore died later that day from his injuries.
>
> ?A light in the fight for justice has expired,? wrote Kathy Renfro, Moore?s
stepdaughter, on his online obituary page.
>
> According to a letter written to friends and family by Kathy?s husband, Bill
Renfro, Moore was concerned about more than racism.
>
> ?Charles sacrificed his life in this manner as a statement that he was dying
on behalf of others to call attention to the plight of the powerless people
struggling to live who are being denied justice, equality, constitutional
rights, health and quality education,? reads the letter. ?He gave his life on
behalf of the hungry, the poor, the imprisoned, and the jobless as well.
>
> ?As written in the notes that were left behind, Charles Moore determined that
he had not done enough in his life to alleviate these problems. He had not gone
to Mississippi to register black voters 50 years ago; he had not participated in
the Selma march; he had not fought enough for justice nor had he acted enough to
erase the specter of segregation because he feared for his life or for the
possibility of removal from a church or from the ministry. (His inaction is
debatable since, as a young minister, he was kicked out of churches in East
Texas for standing up for integration, and since he went on a hunger strike to
bring attention to the polity of the United Methodist Church that would not
allow gays or lesbians to hold any office within the annual conference or in
local churches. These rules were relaxed some later. These are only a few of his
many acts for justice during his life.) He decided that his final act would be
the ultimate sacrifice on behalf of others in an
attempt to fulfill in death where he had failed in life.?
>
> Self-immolation has a long religious and political history, and usually has
been used to protest injustice. The practice dates back in Chinese Buddhist
tradition to the late fourth century, according to a CNN article. People of
other faiths have embraced the practice, although most faiths forbid suicide.
Though self-immolation has the longest history in the Buddhist tradition, it is
still controversial within the faith; some see it as the ultimate
self-sacrifice, while others condemn the practice.
>
> Other religious have different roots to the practice.
>
> ?Though outlawed in India for nearly two centuries, some Hindu communities
practiced the ritual of sati ? in which a widowed Hindu woman would throw
herself, or be thrown, on her husband?s funeral pyre,? reads the CNN article,
named after a Hindu goddess of the same name.
>
> In the mid-1800s, a Russian sect of Christians known as the Soshigateli, or
the ?self-burners,? burned an estimated 1,700 or more of themselves. They
believed it was the only way to be purified of their sins, according to the book
?The Secret Societies of All Ages & Countries? by Charles Heckethorn.
>
> Other acts of self-immolation have been in protest of political actions.
Several Vietnam protesters in the United States in 1965 and 1966 ? of several
different faiths, including Christian and Jewish denominations ? used the
practice. And, ?Malachi Ritscher, 52, lit himself on fire near a downtown
Chicago, Illinois, expressway in 2006,? according to the CNN article. ?The
musician and activist was said to be protesting the war in Iraq, but he was also
reportedly a recovering alcoholic who battled depression.?
>
> The uprising that crumbled the Tunisia government began in December 2010 with
Mohamed Bouazizi setting himself ablaze. Others followed suit shortly after in
Egypt, Algeria and Mauritania.
>
> But friends and family say that Moore?s actions may have been motivated by his
own misplaced guilt as much as they were a protest against the culture.
>
> The Rev. Sid Hall, pastor of Trinity United Methodist Church in Austin, became
friends with Moore when he was pastor of Grace United Methodist in Austin. Hall
recalled when Moore went on a hunger strike in protest of the exclusion of the
LBGTQ community from the church.
>
> ?He walked the talk of social justice in his life,? Hall said. ?He understood
that his privilege as a straight, white male created obligations. He didn?t feel
like he ever lived up to that obligation. That?s where we disagreed. No one can
live up to that. ... He did nothing without serious reflection. He had a
brilliant mind, and I think he was in that mindset a lot. There will be those
who want to paint him as a nutcase, but Charles was someone who really stewed
about issues of conscience. ... If I?d known he was planning something like
this, I would have tried to talk to him. If nothing else, Methodism is about
grace. And even though Charles certainly preached that for other people, I?m not
sure if he accepted it for himself.?
>
> / / / / /
> Steve Hall
> The StandDown Texas Project
> PO Box 13475
> Austin, TX 78711
>
> 512.879.1675 (o
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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 15:07:54 -0400
From: Mary Hampton via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Subject: [Oe List ...] Fwd: Madman or Martyr? Retired minister sets
self on fire, dies
Message-ID: <10343E92-C3CC-4B86-9DAD-0E1C8D79B3CF at att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Begin forwarded message:
> From: Mary Hampton <mhampton at att.net>
> Date: July 3, 2014 at 12:58:02 PM EDT
> To: Randy Williams <randycw1938 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Madman or Martyr? Retired minister sets self on fire, dies
>
> Thank you, George, Del, Jack and Randy and others,
>
> I am at a Gathering of 1200 Quakers in western Pennsylvania (California, PA no
less). Our theme this year is "LOVE is the first motion". After breakfast, I
sat down to read my e-mail. First, i read or comprehended that Charles had
died. Then I read George's email "Immolated" with the Methodist article. My
world was rocked.
>
> I did not know Charles well. I did run into him once at Grace Methodist a few
years after we moved to Austin. I was there because a women's group was
quilting the top I inherited from my grandmother. He was a gracious host and
professed to recognize me although I had come up and introduced myself.
>
> I remember his Mountain of Care story about helping the old man to the
bathroom on the plane.
>
> My first thought was, to the best of my knowledge, I was the only one of these
1200 loving, committed people who had a direct connection at all to this life
and death. I have a horror of the means. AND YET, if we decide in every moment
where we expend our lives is there not also a blessing in being able to decide
where to give our deaths?
>
> I will go to Charles' Memorial Service.
>
> Grace and Peace. Love, LIGHT,
> mary
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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 15:19:52 -0400
From: Mary Hampton via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Subject: [Oe List ...] Charles Moore info
Message-ID: <8B2B7EA7-02D0-46E4-9D3B-4DEA59D9EA03 at att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Who ever is monitoring,
Please remove all addressees I inadvertently left in with Alison Dieter letter.
ty!
mary
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 17:00:07 -0700
From: David Zahrt via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>, Dialogue ICA
<dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Subject: [Oe List ...] Fwd: GMCA June 28-29
Message-ID:
<CAEPC8N=N-=P7NisP0ky2dE0i7rThzyu7P=O9reaAmea9a+LT2A at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
*SAT Jun 28*
On Friday night, we had an early dinner and then scooted to the church to
avoid the lightening, wind and thundershowers. I saw no indication that
there was a camp meeting scheduled so I went downstairs where I could have
a table and an outlet for my computer and did some journaling. When I came
upstairs to the auditorium I discovered a camp meeting in progress. The
issue was financing the March. There is approximately $14,000 in the bank.
It seems the March will cease when it runs out of money. Currently there
is no source of additional income. Some were uncomfortable with Ed Fallon
being the chair of the non-profit organization that is sponsoring the
March. The board is currently making decisions about how the money is
spent. The drift of the conversation seemed to be that we should have
Marchers on the board and replace Ed as the chair. I was not able to
follow the discussion and determine what difference that would make. The
group broke up about 9:30 with a resolution to form a group to talk with Ed
about the issue.
I slept in the church as did most, but I left my clothes bag in the tent.
The bag, and everything in it was damp in the morning. After breakfast
cleanup we circled up, had announcements, and got the route information?19
miles east on Hwy 34. Some still had tents that needed to be taken down
and packed on the Gear truck. There were several people over at the church
vacuuming and straightening up. The route was clear, it was time to go, so
I got on my bike and started east on Hwy 34. I left about 7:15 and arrived
at the campsite about 10:30. The campsite is an Auction House along Hwy 34.
It is not near a town so there are no amenities.
*SUN Jun 29*
After we circled-up I got on my bike and rode off because I now have
texting on my phone. The route is sent every morning as a text-message.
We continued east on Hwy 34 for another 19 miles. Faith, one of our
19-year old Marchers, rode a bike today without a helmet and reflective
vest. She always kept out in front of me. Although there are some uphill
slopes we are basically descending in altitude.
There were several things we used to symbolize the border crossing:
1) The campsite was chosen to be a mile and ? from the Colorado-Nebraska
border.
2) We set our tents up in a circle facing into the circle.
3) We set the wakeup time for 4am
4) We chose to remain silent until we crossed the border
5) We would set up a gateway that everyone would pass through
6) We could choose to verbalize our intent for being on the March.
We also agreed to authorize Jeffrey and John A. to have a conversation with
Ed.
Peace, David
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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 19:05:19 -0500
From: Holcombe Wanda via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: Hampton Mary <mhampton at att.net>
Cc: OE Listserv <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Fwd: Madman or Martyr? Retired minister
sets self on fire, dies
Message-ID: <B4240D58-8D85-41EB-B09B-28429F94DF27 at gmail.com>
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Thanks Mary....George and I plan to attend Charles' A memorial service is to be
held July 12 at Faith Presbyterian Church in Austin.
Wanda
On Jul 3, 2014, at 2:07 PM, Mary Hampton via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> From: Mary Hampton <mhampton at att.net>
>> Date: July 3, 2014 at 12:58:02 PM EDT
>> To: Randy Williams <randycw1938 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: Madman or Martyr? Retired minister sets self on fire, dies
>>
>> Thank you, George, Del, Jack and Randy and others,
>>
>> I am at a Gathering of 1200 Quakers in western Pennsylvania (California, PA
no less). Our theme this year is "LOVE is the first motion". After breakfast,
I sat down to read my e-mail. First, i read or comprehended that Charles had
died. Then I read George's email "Immolated" with the Methodist article. My
world was rocked.
>>
>> I did not know Charles well. I did run into him once at Grace Methodist a
few years after we moved to Austin. I was there because a women's group was
quilting the top I inherited from my grandmother. He was a gracious host and
professed to recognize me although I had come up and introduced myself.
>>
>> I remember his Mountain of Care story about helping the old man to the
bathroom on the plane.
>>
>> My first thought was, to the best of my knowledge, I was the only one of
these 1200 loving, committed people who had a direct connection at all to this
life and death. I have a horror of the means. AND YET, if we decide in every
moment where we expend our lives is there not also a blessing in being able to
decide where to give our deaths?
>>
>> I will go to Charles' Memorial Service.
>>
>> Grace and Peace. Love, LIGHT,
>> mary
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Message: 12
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 17:06:20 -0700
From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: Gordon Harper <gharper1 at mindspring.com>, Del Morril
<delhmor at wamail.net>
Cc: Order Ecumenical <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] death of Charles Moore
Message-ID:
<1404432380.54057.YahooMailNeo at web162705.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
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I worked with Charles on a couple of courses in Bombay and at other events. I
too was struck by his dry humour and dour perspective.
I, too do not know what was going on in Charles mind when he immolated himself
and also do not want to hurt his memory and that of his relatives with my
comments.
But I do not find this act an inspiration although it does draw attention to
what he may have said about racism in the US.
But the shocking nature of this act can cause us to either speak imprudently or
clam up with guilt.?
To use a cliche, "all of us live lives of quiet desperation". ?I remember
rumours from a decade or so ago of Charles' plan to immolate himself in a
similar fashion.?
Did we miss an important signal of what was happening in his interior then??
I too missed seeing what was happening to one of my colleagues who ended up
immolating herself in one of our projects in India.?
While each of us are responsible for our own interior, we can be of help to
others if we stay alert.
with love and respect towards Charles and all of us.
Dharma
On Friday, July 4, 2014 3:04 AM, Gordon Harper via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
wrote:
>
>
>Like many of us, the last time I saw Charles was at the Vail event in 2000.
?The mode and intentionality of his death are very much appropriate topics for
our reflection; so is our way of celebrating this unrepeatable life by recalling
our own stories and the impact this life had on us.
>
>
>I generally appreciated Charles' dour perspective on whatever was happening,
including what we were doing at the moment and he was himself involved in. ?In a
community which was decisionally upbeat, Charles perpetually saw a lack of
attire on the Emperor--and I found refreshing his willingness to share those
perceptions with the rest of us. ?A line attributed to Thomas Hardy comes to my
mind when I think of Charles: "Cheer up--the worst is yet to come."
>
>
>Our only posting together was the team sent to Maliwada in 1976 to launch the
first HDTIs and the replication effort in Maharashtra. ?Charles and Pat were
there for the first year. ?All of us on that team are profoundly indebted to
Pat's keeping us alive during it by managing to find food when there was none.
?My recollection is that Charles found himself utterly lost in that environment
and soldiered on during the year they spent there without ever finding a role
that genuinely engaged him. ?Most of what happened in his life after that I knew
little about.
>
>
>My favorite recollection of Charles, though, is of a moment during the 1971
Global Research Assembly. ?Our plenaries that summer were at Malcolm X College
(pre-Kemper era). ?On the occasion of this evening's plenary, a thousand or so
of us were gathered in the assembly hall following dinner, and there was a great
deal of excitement and accompanying din. ?I happened to be backstage with Joe
and a few of the staff, getting ready for the upcoming session. ?Joe turned and
said, "The mood out there is entirely too high. ?Charles, will you go out and
say a few words."
>
>
>This simple request broke us all up for a moment, recognizing that Joe was
calling on one of our colleague's special gifts, namely, that of lowering the
mood of a group. ?Charles did go out and say a few words, and the mood quieted
dramatically. ?I have sometimes told this story, which sticks in my memory along
with the one Slicker was fond of telling about his friend, Red, as a way of
recognizing that we all have remarkable gifts to contribute to the mission,
however strange they may appear to be.
>
>
>We celebrate this completed life of a colleague -- ??
>
>
>Gordon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 8:49 AM, Del Morril via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
wrote:
>
>Thanks for this meaningful response, Jack, for it does speak to the other
>>side of things, which is to truly appreciate the being and works of this
>>colleague. I most certainly do honor what Charles has given to the world in
>>the past, and what his life has meant o those who've known him.
>>
>>I guess I was simply so shocked at the way he chose to do this, especially
>>not letting his family know of his plans. This is one of the reasons I felt
>>it was totally unfair of him to choose this way out life. ?I appreciate his
>>life, but still consider his act one of a totally disillusioned man, rather
>>than an act of social conscience. ?But, as usual, that is my opinion.
>>
>>I am sure that Charles' hope included that his death would, indeed,
>>stimulate dialogue of one kind or another, not only by us, but by all who
>>saw and heard about it.
>>
>>Del
>>
>>Del Hunter Morrill
>>3217 North Mason Avenue
>>Tacoma WA 98407-5419
>>H: (253) 752-1506; W: (253) 383-5757
>>delhmor at wamail.net
>>Web site: www. hypnocenter.com
>>
>>The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek. (Joseph Campbell)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Jack Gilles [mailto:jackcgilles at gmail.com]
>>Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 8:39 AM
>>To: Del Morril
>>Cc: Order Ecumenical
>>Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] death of Charles Moore
>>
>>Del,
>>
>>For many of us we are his family, still. It is not for us to judge his act
>>nor its sanity. That is between he and the Mystery, which I am sure he was
>>deeply aware of. It sounds insane and a waste to most, I'm sure. I certainly
>>wouldn't have done it. But that is an opinion and we will never know the
>>deeps of his soul or the call he felt. Our task is to celebrate his
>>existence, his place in the galaxy of the Order and pray for his immediate
>>family that they may be comforted.
>>
>>In one sense all our deaths are absurd. We were born to be free and act in
>>forgiveness. I take him at his word and deed. We die our own deaths or we
>>allow death to decide for us. As I said, his choice is not my choice, but he
>>certainly understood the call to act on behalf of all.
>>
>>The last time I saw Charles was at the 2000 Order Gathering in Vail. He
>>spoke and it was not received well and for that I am sorry. He was a beloved
>>man, with so many gifts and so much anguish. May he be at home in the
>>ultimate Mystery. I shall miss him and am grateful for having him shape, as
>>so many hundreds did, my life and direction.
>>
>>Grace & Peace,
>>
>>Jack
>>
>>On Jul 3, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Del Morril via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Can you imagine what this act has done to his family?! ?He may think it
>>was
>>> sacrificial, but I think, like any open suicide for any reason, it is
>>> totally self-serving, regardless of his philosophy! An insane
>>demonstration,
>>> from my perspective, and yet, in some ways, understandable. I just don't
>>> think it will make a bit of difference in changing the social conscience.
>>> That's the truly sad part of this act.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Dialogue [mailto:dialogue-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of
>>> George Holcombe via Dialogue
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 12:19 AM
>>> To: ICA/OE List Serves; ICA/OE List Serves
>>> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] death of Charles Moore
>>>
>>> Our colleague Charles immolated himself June 23, see article at
>>>
>>http://www.umc.org/news-and-media/retired-pastor-saw-destiny-in-self-immolat
>>> ion
>>>
>>> Memorial service will be held ?July 12 at Faith Presbyterian Church in
>>> Austin.
>>>
>>> George Holcombe
>>> 14900 Yellowleaf Tr.
>>> Austin, TX 78728
>>> Mobile 512/252-2756
>>>
>>> "...we have the choice: we can gratefully cultivate the relationships that
>>> make us part of a vast network, or we can take them for granted and allow
>>> them to wither and die." ?Brother David Steindl-Rast, Deeper than Words
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Dialogue mailing list
>>> Dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net
>>> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
>>>
>>>
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